Dunno about in no time, it is totally weird how long something somehow keeps suppressing Bitcoin exchange rates.

It should have been way the heck higher than $1200 long ago, the assets you can see climbing way the heck above Bitcoin in the plots and tables at http://galaxies.mygamesonline.org/digitalisassets.html ought never to have been able to catch up with bitcoin let alone rocket way the heck up past Bitcoin but I have never been able to figure out what the heck kept crushing bitcoin's value.

How can anything or anyone crush its value for so damn long?

-MarkM-

Its not a bet that DOGE will not be worth more than it is now.

It is a bet that X dollars/yen/whatever put into bitcoin instead of into DOGE will be worth more in a year than if it was left in DOGE.

(If you sell your DOGE and buy Bitcoin instead or in other words sell your DOGE for Bitcoin, it will be worth more in a year than if you left it as DOGE.)

Presumably the worth more part is the confusing part, as it seems to mean worth more dollars, or worth more loaves of bread, or worth more hours of minimum wage labour, etc etc rather than worth more bitcoin or worth more DOGE.

(Measuring in "hours of minimum wage labour" would be fun though as who knows, minimum wage might change...)

-MarkM-
 

Hopefully, source code that currencies can use in order to achieve consensus as to their ledgers without needing massive investment into mining gear and massive expenditures of electricity.

Hopefully unlike Ripple it will not be full of extraneous stuff that would just be maintenance and customer-support overhead to people just looking to run their currency or asset or shares or votes or whatever in a  P2P manner securely.

That way all those insecure blockchain coins can migrate to something secure, since obviously they are not all going to be able to secure their ledgers in blockchain form.

-MarkM-

Oh gosh I just realised this is the NXT thread not the VISAcoin thread.

It is getting so similar...

I thought it was the VISAcoin poster claiming people are competent though. I am now confused about who this NXT similar type poster is.

-MarkM-

So what? It is still good for you as a bitcoin user because no matter what currency someone wants to send you you can tell them to simply use RIpple to send it to you in the form of bitcoins.

(Real bitcoins on the blockchain. If they offer bitcoin IOUs just say no no you do not understand, Ripple can send real bitcoins, those are what I want, if you have IOUs good for you, cash them in and send me the damn bitcoins... Which Ripple should do automatically presumably.)

So whether they have dollars or yen or litecoins or whatever, you can still get your real bitcoins on the real blockchain and wait 6 confirmations if you want.

It gets around the whole "gee I do not have bitcoins can I send you something else instead".

You don't even need a Ripple account yourself for that, do you?

You can just say look here is my bitcoin address, just tell your bank or payment processor or Halawa guy or uncle or cousin or grandchild or who-ever-the-f*ck to send me the bitcoins, and if none of them can do it for you just get a damn Ripple account or something...

-MarkM-

Please link to your Web Of Trust listing and any other historical records of your dealings as a trusted participant in the cryptocoin economy.

( See https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=124441.0 )

Linkedin, facebook, WHOIS, myspace, sourceforge, github, google+ etc would also maybe help.

-MarkM-

He hasn't shown a damn thing yet.

At least with Mastercoin the guy was here a few years discussing and developing the ideas, he went to conferences and discussed them with people there and so on and so on before eventually, when no one else took the ideas and built with them, he ended up having to do it himself.

With NXT there is actual code actually running.

This thing is pre-order vapourware. Unlike Butterfly Labs though he doesn't even have a history here of delivering on projects in the past.

Sending money just encourages more such scams to proliferate.

Plus the whole trademark problem being dismissed as not a problem makes it pretty obvious he she or it will be long gone long before that becomes an issue.

Obviously it is all about cheating people out of money, that is why nothing is any worry or concern at all so long as people send money.

-MarkM-

No way it is too verbose, brainfuck is more concise isn't it? At least it doesn't waste so many bytes on huge keywords like "PLEASE".

But hey politeness is important, right?

Or hey (this would be cool) is PLEASE really a keyword or it is actually six single-character commands that just happen to look like a word to speakers of English?

-MarkM-

So in other words you get to be ripped off in company with others instead of ripped off all alone?

(What else does the fact some suckers or sockpuppets sent money mean?)

-MarkM-

A whole bunch of the last spate of scamcoins tried to "randomise" rewards, some you can predict ahead of time maybe if their "random" number generator is deterministic but others use the previous block as part of the input to the generator or the final award amount so for those you will not be able to figure out what the block reward is going to be for a block until you have seen the previous block, and of course you will not know which previous block the next block will choose to build on either unless you see all the competing blocks that are hoping they will be confirmed...

...So until 120 blocks later you will not really know for sure what the block reward was...

(120 meaning however many blocks it takes in that chain for a block to be considered "mature".)

-MarkM-

So they aren't even deploying enough seed nodes?

Worser and worser...

It is obviously over-valued, dump some to buy some dedicated servers to act as seed nodes.

If that drives the price down well then maybe that will be bringing it closer toward a reasonable value.

If it is worth what its price shows then dumping some to buy seed nodes ought not suppress the price much, right?

-MarkM-

300% of what? How many bitcoins did it cost them to eat that far into the sell side of the order-book?

Might it merely be people who decided what to buy and simply bought it?

For example right now you can buy DeVCoin for less than 100 satoshis a coin. If someone decided they wanted to buy a few hundred million to put away for a few years or for their expected child's college fund or whatever, they would drive the price up almost a satoshi per half-million coins.

They might figure so what, the average price they'd get them for would still be less than 350 satoshis per coin even if they bought pretty much the entire sell-side of the order-book, and be happy with that figuring by the time their descendants dig out the pieces of the cold-wallet and put them together to get at the coins they will be worth thousands of satoshis per coin or more...

Or look at I0Coin or IXCoin, many times all you can see on the sell-side is my offers to sell 10 of them, and not even ten at each satoshi of price, heck sometimes many of the offers are 25 satoshis apart as I first put offers at each thousand then at each 500 then at each 250 and so on, when you see an offer every five it means I have that part of the price range getting close to being fully populated - but only with initial sketch offers of 10 coins. Someone who decides they want a few thousand clears a huge swathe of such offers. Same applies on the buy side, I can try to pile up little offers all the way up to try to get the buy side up close to the sell side after someone did a buy that cleared a huge swathe of the sell side, but someone dumping a few thousand blows them all away in one buy too.

It is going to take time to build up large enough offers, densely enough packed, on both sides of all the order-books even on an exchange like Vircurex that doesn't spam the user with billions of worthless coins making the job of filling the order-books ever harder.

Hopefully VIrcurex will add an option soon to let you tell it to fill all prices between a start price and an end price with offers using X number of whatevers, then people will be able to re-fill such gaps in the order-books a lot easier. But as far as I know Vircurex is the only exchange that is even considering making such an option available so expect massive gaps on other exchanges even after Vircurex has that tool in place.

-MarkM-

Which is why those con-men / scammers are running around trying to convince people it is a good coin.

It is cheaper to have a bunch of spammers and sockpuppets post bullshit PR on forums than to actually sit down and build and deploy enough hashing power to secure it.

-MarkM-

Look if you open a bank and it sits depositor's money out on a windowsill with a big sign saying "steal this money" that makes it a bank that it would be stupid to put a lot of money into. Encouraging people to put money into a financial application or system that is not secure is irresponsible at least, maybe even deliberate criminal negligence or something along those lines.

I am not saying that a highly secure currency should be worth a lot, I am saying that an insecure one should NOT be worth a lot and hopefully not worth much if anything until it has been adequately secured. People should be urged to withdraw until the vault has been repaired, kind of idea. Warn everyone to stay away, close the thing until its security has been upgraded or whatever but do NOT deliberately try to cause people to lose money by deliberately urging them to put it into insecure systems.

-MarkM-

Huh? To stablise it against fiat, you sell some for fiat so you have fiat. To stablise it against bitcoin you sell some for bitcoin so that you have bitcoin.

The need to stabilise implies an exchange exists, so no matter what currency the exchange is pairing against NXT it also conveniently provides you a means of obtaining ome of whatever it is pairing you with.

The fact that it is the large holders that need to do this is because only large holders have large enough amounts to be able to buy lasrge amounts of whatever the other currency in the pair is.

-MarkM-

Then secure the damn thing already dammit. Buy yourselves some GPUs, order some FPGAs or ASICs and get hashing to secure it.

-MarkM-

That is why it is my country-house that I am re-wiring no a place in town. Rooftop is too small, with the coutry-house as I fill up it's land I can acquire more land.

Though a hot spring in Iceland sounds good too, or even a cold one.

Subsidies though ouch, trust governments to mess with things one way or another eh?

On the bright side though maybe government-operated and government-financed mining operations might be less likely than others to attack chains instead of mining them. Maybe. Maybe the various attacks will simply be cybercrimes like various other cybercrimes, full prosecutable under the law if you can track down who is doing them.


-MarkM-

Basement miner yeah, unless they have an underground river or fast flowing sewer under the house.

Rooftop though should last longer, having access to sun and/or wind...

Next after re-wiring is solar and wind gear...

I want some kind of controller that can fire up more and more mining gear as the sun or wind increases, and tone down as they decrease, to save on batteries and on grid power.

(Use the power while it is coming in aka store it as coins instead of storing it on the grid or in batteries.)

-MarkM-

It is not bitcoin you should be comparing it to but to scrypt hashing power in general.

Does it have less than half of the scrypt hashing power?

Look at the prices of, for example, IXCoin and I0Coin and DeVCoin and GRouPcoin, what fraction of the SHA256 hashing power does each have?

Then compare their prices to each other and to the highest-hashpower (thus most secure) SHA coin (bitcoin).

As long as you have less than half of the hashing-power you are easier to PWN than other coins of your type (such as Litecoin and DOGE).

If totally out of the blue your entire hashing-power can be dwarfed (as happened to Worldcoin with the appearance of DOGE out of the blue) you are a joke, a train wreck waiting to happen, a bunch of money sitting on a window-sill - the outside sill not the inside sill, or the window is open - with a big sign saying "STEAL THIS MONEY".

If there are three scrypt coins in existence at least one of them has to have less than half of the hashing-power.

Even if there were only two and they momentarily each had half that would be a very fragile situation with either one of them likely to end up with more than half or less than half at any particular moment.

As it is, it maybe would have made sense that Vircurex listed DOGE if it had de-listed you at the same time; or de-listed whichever scrypt coin was lowest hashpower at the time. I am kind of disappointed that DOGE was added without dropping one so that it would be coming in to replace the least secure one with a more-secure one rather than creating a worry that maybe it might end up adding more that momentarily get a high hash rate while failing to drop another, leading to an accumulation of more and more insecure coins likely to be more and more insecure as time goes on.

-MarkM-

Yeah but DOGEcoin isn't secure, not even as secure as Litecoin.

If it overtakes Litecoin in hashing power, reliably not just a moment at a time as it appears on some topsite for a moment, then maybe it will become "the" scrypt coin. But that might rest mostly on whether DOGE miners buy more scrypt-ASICs than Litecoin miners do and whether migrant miners aka blockchain-gangbangers buy more such ASICs than either-or-any coin's "native" miner-population.

That is a lot of why I buy ASICs: I cannot rely on joe sixpack to include all my coins in his merged mining, so I have to become a major miner myself (or come up with software for a pool that will distribute all the various coins to the miners) if I hope merged mining is going to turn out to be a good and robust way of securing more than just one chain (the parent chain; bitcoin) and thus allow the coins that moved to Open Transactions in order to avoid the insecurity of the blockchain format to move back to being blockchain-based.

-MarkM-