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Author Topic: So you think you're going to start a Bitcoin business, right?  (Read 69418 times)
MPOE-PR
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November 15, 2012, 04:43:04 PM
 #1

Okay, it's not a crime. It's just the first step down the road which brings pretty much 9x% to crime within six months to a year. So, here are some simple easy steps for your convenience.

0. Starting a bitcoin business is a liability. The first thing you need to understand, and you need to understand it well. At sixteen hundred hours while you were sitting around your living room scratching your ear you were worth X. Your life, your ideas, your business, the shit around your house that you own, all that which makes up your life, added together, worth X. At sixteen fifteen, eight minutes after you had started your Bitcoin business you were worth X-k, where k is always positive and SIGNIFICANT. Starting a Bitcoin business is a liability, it makes you worth less. In fact, all the rest of your life in Bitcoinland will be attempts, more or less successful, to limit and reduce that liability. This is the outlook you must have not in order to be successful, but in order to have a shot at it. This is the outlook you must have in order to not guarantee failure.

1. Identify yourself to the community. This means, at the very least, creating a WOT account. If you do not have a WOT account you are not part of Bitcoin business. This is the criteria, no matter what you might think. That's where everyone looks, no matter what social media might be telling you. If you aren't in the WOT you aren't in Bitcoin.

This might also mean making a few social media profiles. The difference between an account on StumbleUpon called MyBTCBiz, a reddit account called BtcBlaBla, a myspace, tumblr, whatever and a forum account called MyBizPr is nil. They're all the same thing: social media profiles. Sure, they may be useful. You wouldn't think to substitute a forum registration for a company registration IRL, now would you? Same thing here.

2. After completing step 1 spend at the very least six months learning. This attitude whereby you think you're great and valuable, so great and valuable in fact that you had the business idea first, then you ran into Bitcoin and then in the heat of the moment saw to that formality of a forum account so now you're ready for "investment" five hours later after dealing with the pesky minimum posts rules is bullshit. Pure bullshit. This isn't how it works, if you've not been in the WOT for six months you are not ready to start a Bitcoin business for reason of intellectual incapacity, irrespective of what you might think. (And yes, of course you will think you're the exception to this rule. You are not the exception, you are just unskilled and unwarare of it. The rule is exactly about you.)

Yes, maybe if Warren Buffett decided to go into Bitcoin he'd just put a notice on his Berkshire Hathaway website identifying his WOT handle and be ready in five minutes. The reason Warren Buffett can do that and you can't is that you're not Warren Buffett. Yes, one day you might become the next WB. That doesn't mean you're it today, consumer credit does not work in this field.

So, what you do during your six months is that

2.1. You buy some Bitcoins. Get a good idea of what the options for doing that are, how the exchanges work, how the OTC market works (if by now you do not know what OTC or WOT stand for add two months to your lockdown as punishment for being the sort of idiot who, when he encounters words he does not know, instead of investigating their meaning brushes them off to "get on with the reading").

2.2. You sell some Bitcoins. Get a good idea of how that works, how you get your money back out, what the limits are, so on and so forth. You wouldn't want to discover later that you have a billion dollars in Bitcoins you can never spend in any way, other than by donating to the Bitcoin Gates Foundation now would you? What sort of WB would that be?

These are not a waste of time. They are here to give you an idea of how your future customers will be seeing life. You want to buy some Bitcoins even if you don't need them, and sell them even if you don't need to and buy back just on general principle. You are unit testing the currency. Boring? Fuck you.

2.3. You read, on this forum, and you discuss with the market participants. You get your pecking order straight. Who are the movers and shakers? Whose word is worth 10k Bitcoins no questions asked and from whom? Why? You get the history straight. Who were the scammers, historically? How did they do it ? What are the patterns? How did the people who matter react, and why? What does that say about them, how does that color their relationships among each other?

If you don't have the list and don't comprehend how the interactions work, if you look at DeathandTaxes and have no fucking idea who he is, if you think we're buddies cause I mention him by name and so forth you're not done with this. Must lurk moar.

2.4. You ask questions. Only on step 2.4 do you ask questions, by the time you're here you have already done a lot of work! You have sunk into this upwards of a hundred hours of your spare time, whether you like it or not, you've filled half a notebook with dumbass scribblings, you have fucking hand-drawn maps hanging from your bedroom wall. This level of intensity is not an upper bound to aspire to, but a minimum requirement.

Your questions will get a lot of stupid answers but also a complete set of correct answers. Pick the set, disregard the rest, you're on your way.

3. Announce your business plan. If you think your business plan has to be kept secret because otherwise others will steal it you are probably too stupid to be in business (not just BTC, but in general).

Let me explain to you how business "stealing" works: at the time MPEx was created (Feb 2012) there existed GLBSE already, which sucked at that time. Nobody flailing around in a cloud of stupidity almost mould-like in consistency seemed to be aware of it, but GLBSE sucked. And so Mr. P decided to make a securities exchange that worked right and was run correctly.

So, pro tip #1: there's so much to do and so few people capable of doing it in Bitcoin that if your plan makes sense and you seem even remotely competent everyone else who is competent will breathe a sigh of relief. They aren't going to "steal" your idea of doing the absolutely fucking obviously banal, cause so much is needed I couldn't begin to tell you.

Pro tip #2: if you are incompetent, the people who are competent aren't going to steal your business early. They are going to steal it late, just like MPEx demolished GLBSE. They don't need early mover advantage, they will come to your market six months or a year late, break off your arms and beat you over the head with them until you are reduced to a bloody mess.

So, forget about anyone "Stealing" your business. When S.DICE was announced, a bunch of forum muppets rambled on about how it's not worth its valuation because "everyone could do it". And I laughed at them then and so to prove my point that they're laughable idiots they declared that they shall do it! It's been months, who has managed to steal the business? You can't steal any business from the competent, and if you're competent yourself you don't even try to, cause it makes no business sense.

Thus, at the very least, step 3 gives you this measure of protection, whereby other competent people know you're doing X and so don't start doing X too. It saves our time and effort, rather than doing something twice do two of the fifty billion things that still need doing.

Obviously your announcement will gather a bunch of crap from a bunch of nobodies. But lucky for you, you've been doing this by the numbers, and you have the list. You know why you don't care what Joel Katz says about anything: what people who don't run businesses say is irrelevant. You know why you care what piuk says about anything to do with the blockchain (do you?).

4. Almost there.

4.1. If you actually got no objections, just pats on the back you're golden. Go do your thing, try your best not to fuck up, when in doubt ask people you trust and that's that.

4.2. If you actually had some objections, do not proceed until the people who raised them declared themselves satisfied. The odds that they don't have a point are dismal, and more importantly, the odds that they wouldn't withdraw objections along the lines of the most favorable construction for you are nil. If someone's pointing things out to you that won't work with your model they're right. If nobody is that still is not proof your model can work.

Stick to this and I might be hearing your name in a year or two. Don't, you just fade into the background noise, yet another of the many who keep paying ten or fifty dollars a month to be part of a new and exciting MMORPG, sorta like the glassy eyed FB credits buyers.

Good luck in any event.

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November 15, 2012, 04:57:15 PM
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Okay, it's not a crime. It's just the first step down the road which brings pretty much 9x% to crime within six months to a year. So, here are some simple easy steps for your convenience.

0. Starting a bitcoin business is a liability. The first thing you need to understand, and you need to understand it well. At sixteen hundred hours while you were sitting around your living room scratching your ear you were worth X. Your life, your ideas, your business, the shit around your house that you own, all that which makes up your life, added together, worth X. At sixteen fifteen, eight minutes after you had started your Bitcoin business you were worth X-k, where k is always positive and SIGNIFICANT. Starting a Bitcoin business is a liability, it makes you worth less. In fact, all the rest of your life in Bitcoinland will be attempts, more or less successful, to limit and reduce that liability. This is the outlook you must have not in order to be successful, but in order to have a shot at it. This is the outlook you must have in order to not guarantee failure.

1. Identify yourself to the community. This means, at the very least, creating a WOT account. If you do not have a WOT account you are not part of Bitcoin business. This is the criteria, no matter what you might think. That's where everyone looks, no matter what social media might be telling you. If you aren't in the WOT you aren't in Bitcoin.

This might also mean making a few social media profiles. The difference between an account on StumbleUpon called MyBTCBiz, a reddit account called BtcBlaBla, a myspace, tumblr, whatever and a forum account called MyBizPr is nil. They're all the same thing: social media profiles. Sure, they may be useful. You wouldn't think to substitute a forum registration for a company registration IRL, now would you? Same thing here.

2. After completing step 1 spend at the very least six months learning. This attitude whereby you think you're great and valuable, so great and valuable in fact that you had the business idea first, then you ran into Bitcoin and then in the heat of the moment saw to that formality of a forum account so now you're ready for "investment" five hours later after dealing with the pesky minimum posts rules is bullshit. Pure bullshit. This isn't how it works, if you've not been in the WOT for six months you are not ready to start a Bitcoin business for reason of intellectual incapacity, irrespective of what you might think. (And yes, of course you will think you're the exception to this rule. You are not the exception, you are just unskilled and unwarare of it. The rule is exactly about you.)

Yes, maybe if Warren Buffett decided to go into Bitcoin he'd just put a notice on his Berkshire Hathaway website identifying his WOT handle and be ready in five minutes. The reason Warren Buffett can do that and you can't is that you're not Warren Buffett. Yes, one day you might become the next WB. That doesn't mean you're it today, consumer credit does not work in this field.

So, what you do during your six months is that

2.1. You buy some Bitcoins. Get a good idea of what the options for doing that are, how the exchanges work, how the OTC market works (if by now you do not know what OTC or WOT stand for add two months to your lockdown as punishment for being the sort of idiot who, when he encounters words he does not know, instead of investigating their meaning brushes them off to "get on with the reading").

2.2. You sell some Bitcoins. Get a good idea of how that works, how you get your money back out, what the limits are, so on and so forth. You wouldn't want to discover later that you have a billion dollars in Bitcoins you can never spend in any way, other than by donating to the Bitcoin Gates Foundation now would you? What sort of WB would that be?

These are not a waste of time. They are here to give you an idea of how your future customers will be seeing life. You want to buy some Bitcoins even if you don't need them, and sell them even if you don't need to and buy back just on general principle. You are unit testing the currency. Boring? Fuck you.

2.3. You read, on this forum, and you discuss with the market participants. You get your pecking order straight. Who are the movers and shakers? Who's word is worth 10k Bitcoins no questions asked and from whom? Why? You get the history straight. Who were the scammers, historically? How did they do it ? What are the patterns? How did the people who matter react, and why? What does that say about them, how does that color their relationships among each other?

If you don't have the list and don't comprehend how the interactions work, if you look at DeathandTaxes and have no fucking idea who he is, if you think we're buddies cause I mention him by name and so forth you're not done with this. Must lurk moar.

2.4. You ask questions. Only on step 2.4 do you ask questions, by the time you're here you have already done a lot of work! You have sunk into this upwards of a hundred hours of your spare time, whether you like it or not, you've filled half a notebook with dumbass scribblings, you have fucking hand-drawn maps hanging from your bedroom wall. This level of intensity is not an upper bound to aspire to, but a minimum requirement.

Your questions will get a lot of stupid answers but also a complete set of correct answers. Pick the set, disregard the rest, you're on your way.

3. Announce your business plan. If you think your business plan has to be kept secret because otherwise others will steal it you are probably too stupid to be in business (not just BTC, but in general).

Let me explain to you how business "stealing" works: at the time MPEx was created (Feb 2012) there existed GLBSE already, which sucked at that time. Nobody flailing around in a cloud of stupidity almost mould-like in consistency seemed to be aware of it, but GLBSE sucked. And so Mr. P decided to make a securities exchange that worked right and was run correctly.

So, pro tip #1: there's so much to do and so few people capable of doing it in Bitcoin that if your plan makes sense and you seem even remotely competent everyone else who is competent will breathe a sigh of relief. They aren't going to "steal" your idea of doing the absolutely fucking obviously banal, cause so much is needed I couldn't begin to tell you.

Pro tip #2: if you are incompetent, the people who are competent aren't going to steal your business early. They are going to steal it late, just like MPEx demolished GLBSE. They don't need early mover advantage, they will come to your market six months or a year late, break off your arms and beat you over the head with them until you are reduced to a bloody mess.

So, forget about anyone "Stealing" your business. When S.DICE was announced, a bunch of forum muppets rambled on about how it's not worth its valuation because "everyone could do it". And I laughed at them then and so to prove my point that they're laughable idiots they declared that they shall do it! It's been months, who has managed to steal the business? You can't steal any business from the competent, and if you're competent yourself you don't even try to, cause it makes no business sense.

Thus, at the very least, step 3 gives you this measure of protection, whereby other competent people know you're doing X and so don't start doing X too. It saves our time and effort, rather than doing something twice do two of the fifty billion things that still need doing.

Obviously your announcement will gather a bunch of crap from a bunch of nobodies. But lucky for you, you've been doing this by the numbers, and you have the list. You know why you don't care what Joel Katz says about anything: what people who don't run businesses say is irrelevant. You know why you care what piuk says about anything to do with the blockchain (do you?).

4. Almost there.

4.1. If you actually got no objections, just pats on the back you're golden. Go do your thing, try your best not to fuck up, when in doubt ask people you trust and that's that.

4.2. If you actually had some objections, do not proceed until the people who raised them declared themselves satisfied. The odds that they don't have a point are dismal, and more importantly, the odds that they wouldn't withdraw objections along the lines of the most favorable construction for you are nil. If someone's pointing things out to you that won't work with your model they're right. If nobody is that still is not proof your model can work.

Stick to this and I might be hearing your name in a year or two. Don't, you just fade into the background noise, yet another of the many who keep paying ten or fifty dollars a month to be part of a new and exciting MMORPG, sorta like the glassy eyed FB credits buyers.

Good luck in any event.

Nice one Mircea, keep up the good work and lower the cursing a bit, newbies could think that you're joking.

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November 15, 2012, 08:57:39 PM
 #3

Okay, it's not a crime. It's just the first step down the road which brings pretty much 9x% to crime within six months to a year. So, here are some simple easy steps for your convenience.

0. Starting a bitcoin business is a liability. The first thing you need to understand, and you need to understand it well. At sixteen hundred hours while you were sitting around your living room scratching your ear you were worth X. Your life, your ideas, your business, the shit around your house that you own, all that which makes up your life, added together, worth X. At sixteen fifteen, eight minutes after you had started your Bitcoin business you were worth X-k, where k is always positive and SIGNIFICANT. Starting a Bitcoin business is a liability, it makes you worth less. In fact, all the rest of your life in Bitcoinland will be attempts, more or less successful, to limit and reduce that liability. This is the outlook you must have not in order to be successful, but in order to have a shot at it. This is the outlook you must have in order to not guarantee failure.
I understand (and actually happened to do) most of that stuff, but these two points elude me. Are you trying to say that most of us will soon become criminals? And where does the "k" come from? From prospective necessity to hire lawyers? How much is it, for example, in case of MPEx? Funny that Mircea forgot to mention anything like that in his truly exquisite MPEx market value calculation.


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November 15, 2012, 09:39:32 PM
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I understand (and actually happened to do) most of that stuff

That's great. The truth of the matter is that pretty much everyone worth their salt goes through all that I listed up there (and more). It's just common sense, after all. I wrote this post because the people for whom it isn't common sense have no other way to find out about it.

Compare the case of A, who aspires to become an Opera singer, and B, who aspires to become a rap singer. A spends five hours a day practicing, doing boring stuff such as vocalize, paying canto professors and in general going to a lot of trouble. B spends his time posting on BlackPantherForum.gov

Five years later, A is singing her first paid engagement (not quite an established Opera house, but certainly a start) and B is a juvenile delinquent. As far as A is concerned, obviously B never had a shot to begin with: didn't work his voice, didn't practice, didn't X Y Z. As far as B is concerned however, A just got a lucky break, possibly cause she's white. Or a girl. Or whatever else. B doesn't even know about the X Y Z.

Are you trying to say that most of us will soon become criminals?

In as much as you agree with the simple notion that starting a BTC business such as a BTC bank and then "defaulting" is criminal behavior, that's exactly what I am saying.

To illuminate this point: default is a specified statutory protection (that's why it's called "chapter 11 or 7 protection"). There's no statute in BTC, and as such "default" can never exist in that sense, as something that "happens". The distinction between theft and "default" does not exist in BTC, mostly because it can't exist (and this is yet another of those many fields in which BTC forces economy back on a sound footing).

I specifically am not saying or hinting that some nebulous new legislation would impact Bitcoin in any relevant manner in the future or somesuch. The entire reasoning is the simple default = crime equation explained above.

And where does the "k" come from?

The k factor comes from the specified nature of the business (ie, BTC business). In order to be able to offer BTC business you must at a minimum be able to correctly and safely handle payments. This is a cost, in an actuarial view of the world (in the sense it is a risk you undertake, and all risks can be viewed as costs).

A traditional business doesn't one day wake up to discover that Linode was hacked and so now they have to make good on about twenty thousand dollars they thought they had safely but, as it turns out, are gone (like slush was, back in the Linode "hack" or whatever it was).

Thus, by simply starting a BTC business you are already undertaking some risks, and so are sinking in some costs. This k starts out high (but not really that high, it's likely under 100k in all cases - which makes it negligible in comparison to regulatory and compliance costs in most real-world situations) and tends to zero over time. In the case of most established businesses it may be considered no longer a significant stand-alone factor (mostly on the theory that a business past the break-even point is breaking even on all its costs, not just some selection).

Funny that Mircea forgot to mention anything like that in his truly exquisite MPEx market value calculation.

You will notice that article is a strict comparison of like things. If you're comparing apples and oranges, you can in principle disregard any risks they both share as fruit, even if you might consider risks one incurs for being limited to the color orange whereas the other not so much being red to yellow.

PS. We don't for a moment even contemplate the notion that people's skin tone has any impact on their general ability or odds to succeed in whatever they may endeavor. We do however believe even mediocre Opera is far superior to any rap music ever created.

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November 15, 2012, 10:01:33 PM
 #5

And where does the "k" come from?

The k factor comes from the specified nature of the business (ie, BTC business). In order to be able to offer BTC business you must at a minimum be able to correctly and safely handle payments. This is a cost, in an actuarial view of the world (in the sense it is a risk you undertake, and all risks can be viewed as costs).

A traditional business doesn't one day wake up to discover that Linode was hacked and so now they have to make good on about twenty thousand dollars they thought they had safely but, as it turns out, are gone (like slush was, back in the Linode "hack" or whatever it was).

Thus, by simply starting a BTC business you are already undertaking some risks, and so are sinking in some costs. This k starts out high (but not really that high, it's likely under 100k in all cases - which makes it negligible in comparison to regulatory and compliance costs in most real-world situations) and tends to zero over time. In the case of most established businesses it may be considered no longer a significant stand-alone factor (mostly on the theory that a business past the break-even point is breaking even on all its costs, not just some selection).
True, it's not far from how much worth of my time I sank into coinbr for it to be able to use keys away from filthy VPSes and have reliable bookkeeping.

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November 15, 2012, 10:05:19 PM
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I would much rather have verified information as to the location of residency of person(s) involved in a business instead of involvement on the WOT.  WOT doesn't mean much when it comes to conducting big business.  It's good for small trades between geeky people though.
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November 15, 2012, 10:53:35 PM
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I would much rather have verified information as to the location of residency of person(s) involved in a business instead of involvement on the WOT.  WOT doesn't mean much when it comes to conducting big business.  It's good for small trades between geeky people though.

I think you misconstrue the WOT. For one, millions of dollars' worth of trade happened there (literally). Compare that to the measly tens of k's or whatever in any other venue. So no, the WOT is for the BTC millionaires, the other venues are where silly/geeky/whatever kids gather.

For another, suppose Joe Doe of 9 Ransack Avenue posts his gov't issued id or whatever here. Two weeks later he runs with your money and three weeks later he logs in to say sorry, but someone accessed his forum account. Not him though. (This, you will note, has actually happened). What now?

The irc-based identification prevents that, because people have to identify during each session, which requires them to actually decode an encrypted challenge. Quite a different level of safety. In point of fact, this forum was not designed to carry financial business any more than the now defunct GLBSE was. The WOT is an entirely different story.

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November 15, 2012, 11:02:48 PM
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Yea I do not have a WOT rating but anyone I have done business with on here will vouch for me I am sure, Im not talking 100 dollars here or there either talking 1k and over transactions.
The key would be, just build a decent reputation like you would any where. Leave what you do outside of here out no one gives a shit unless you own some major company or something. All in all just treat other like you would want to be treated and you will get along just fine.

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November 15, 2012, 11:10:32 PM
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MPEx demolished GLBSE?  When did this happen?  MPEx sucked from day one and continues to suck.  GLBSE self imploded and MPEx played exactly zero part in that.

Additionally, the whole bit about WOT is a joke.  Very few people care about, pay attention to or use WOT.  The idea behind WOT is not a bad one, but much like MPEx, the user interface is shit, whereas the user interface on MPEx is complete, utter shit.  As such, nobody really cares about either website in the greater bitcoin community.  I'm not sure why you are trying to push WOT so hard, but whatever.  

The fact that you use MPEx as an example of a "good" Bitcoin venture is rather telling, though.  WOT is only for the hardcore geeks, as is MPEx.  The rest of the Bitcoin community has little to zero knowledge and cares even less about either of them.  There is no way in hell you're going to get Joe Sixpack to use either site.  Citing irc-based identification as a good thing also indicates you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about when you're talking about the general public.  

Some of what you've written is definitely true, but you have a very tenuous grasp on the fundamental interaction between Bitcoin and the general population unfortunately, so most of your message will be discarded.  


If you're searching these lines for a point, you've probably missed it.  There was never anything there in the first place.
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November 15, 2012, 11:22:59 PM
 #10

It boils down to this - decide yourself whether you want to tie your reputation to

a) something designed and used by cryptographers that even after worst compromise can be revoked

or

b) to some forum/website where you have to trust admins, moderators, VPS provider and God knows who else.

I don't see how in any way Joe Sixpack invalidates this consideration. GPG isn't so hard to learn even for him.

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November 15, 2012, 11:30:59 PM
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It boils down to this - decide yourself whether you want to tie your reputation to

a) something designed and used by cryptographers that even after worst compromise can be revoked

or

b) to some forum/website where you have to trust admins, moderators, VPS provider and God knows who else.

I don't see how in any way Joe Sixpack invalidates this consideration. GPG isn't so hard to learn even for him.
GPG would be an incredibly hard concept for just about anyone I know to grasp or learn to use.  So yes, it does invalidate that consideration.  WOT and MPOE miss the mark on general populace usability, and no amount of "no really, it's not that hard" is going to change that fact.
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November 15, 2012, 11:38:46 PM
 #12

Some of what you've written is definitely true, but you have a very tenuous grasp on the fundamental interaction between Bitcoin and the general population unfortunately, so most of your message will be discarded.  

That's okay: as far as the economy goes (be it Bitcoin or fiat) most of the general population is discarded.

Note that this is not about "how should Joe Sixpack go about buying a sixpack". This is about how to start a beer factory.

WOT and MPOE miss the mark on general populace usability, and no amount of "no really, it's not that hard" is going to change that fact.

Why do you think this "general populace" is ready to start a business or should be starting a business?

If you happen to live in the US, the tax code can also be generally said to be outside of the grasp, not only of the general public, but of absolutely each and every last one expert in the field. So? It's still the tax code, and guess what? If you break it you go to jail.

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November 15, 2012, 11:39:48 PM
 #13

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-205_162-57539366/the-25-most-common-passwords-of-2012/

And you somehow think those millions of people are going to use GPG?  They can't even be bothered to use a unique password (I did not even say secure) and you think they are going to use GPG?  Really?  Cause that's Joe Sixpack right there.


If you're searching these lines for a point, you've probably missed it.  There was never anything there in the first place.
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November 15, 2012, 11:41:20 PM
 #14

Some of what you've written is definitely true, but you have a very tenuous grasp on the fundamental interaction between Bitcoin and the general population unfortunately, so most of your message will be discarded. 

That's okay: as far as the economy goes (be it Bitcoin or fiat) most of the general population is discarded.

Note that this is not about "how should Joe Sixpack go about buying a sixpack". This is about how to start a beer factory.

WOT and MPOE miss the mark on general populace usability, and no amount of "no really, it's not that hard" is going to change that fact.

Why do you think this "general populace" is ready to start a business or should be starting a business?

If you happen to live in the US, the tax code can also be generally said to be outside of the grasp, not only of the general public, but of absolutely each and every last one expert in the field. So? It's still the tax code, and guess what? If you break it you go to jail.

Sure, and that's why you have tax advisors.  The person starting the business does not handle the taxes themselves, they pay someone.  Someone starting a business is not going to use WOT, they are going to ... pay someone?  No, they are just not going to use WOT.

If you're searching these lines for a point, you've probably missed it.  There was never anything there in the first place.
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November 16, 2012, 08:12:21 AM
 #15

Sure, and that's why you have tax advisors.  The person starting the business does not handle the taxes themselves, they pay someone.  Someone starting a business is not going to use WOT, they are going to ... pay someone?  No, they are just not going to use WOT.


What exactly is the problem with hiring someone to do what they need to do but can't or won't?

If they don't use the WOT they don't have a BTC business. Simple as pie. Are there people who will foolishly charge forward on the mistaken assumption that they have a BTC business when they do not? Certainly. Will it come to anything? Certainly not. Will these people make a difference? Nope. That's pretty much the whole story.

To put it another way, meet Rakim:

http://www.bannedinhollywood.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/computers-are-racist-588x281.jpg
(Mod edit: removed embedding because it was causing this page to be detected as malware)

Rakim believes computers are too complicated, and Rakim feels they should be made "easier", so people from "the community" could get good paying jobs. This is what you are arguing: an argument from ignorance ("I don't know how to use X") coupled with an argument from laziness ("And I'm too lazy to learn"), all supported on the very queasy footing of an appeal to the people ("And we are all lazy and ignorant").

Well...what difference does any of that make? It takes skill to drive a car, it costs money, you need to buy the actual car...what difference does any of that make? Even if 99.9% of "the people" are too lazy to learn how to drive a car, even if 99.9% of the citizenry thinks learning all those complicated traffic lights is too much hassle...these sorts of things are exactly the type that build civilizations. As such, they will be learned either willingly or at gunpoint, but learned they will be.

The criteria is not whether Rakim feels GPG is easy enough for him. The criteria is that GPG solves a problem nothing else solves. As such, GPG is the solution (and Rakim is part of the problem, or moreover, Rakim is a problem all of his own).

To address the earlier point about who demolished GLBSE: MPEx had higher volume than GLBSE every month since about June or July, every week since June or July and pretty much every single day since August. Related to this, GLBSE volume was dropping every month, almost every week and most days. The event of Nefario running away from it is an event, but the process of MPEx owning GLBSE was not something Nefario or anyone else of their people could have either prevented or even slowed down. So, if Nefario wasn't Nefario you'd still look at a GLBSE default just like if Trendon Shavers wasn't Pirate you'd still look at a BTCST default. The timing might have varied. The net result was pretty much set in stone due to reasons far outside of the reach of either. I wonder, however, why do you feel so strongly on this matter? Do you think yourself an expert on the topic? Are you just threatened by the apparent need to learn something quite to the degree of frothing around the mouth?

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November 16, 2012, 08:48:53 AM
 #16

Sort of like the "Mircea hired a PR lady" story. Yes, that was a grand success.
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November 16, 2012, 08:49:35 AM
 #17

I think there's around a dozen or so people in the bitcoin-community that want to run "beer factories", as someone put it.
The whole econosphere is much too small for multiple endeavors of that scale.

Most of the eco-universe surrounding bitcoin consists of micro-breweries with handwritten receipts.
As those breweries grow, they will necessarily have to adapt most procedures outlined.
Then they will be able to buy a factory. But that's years later.

By and large, your abstract comes across kind of condescending, and I wonder what the motivation was to write such a pamphlat, since anyone could just open a business101-leaflet and be told just about the same thing (sans the btc specifica).

Bitcoins, so is my impression, brings about the entrepreneur in a lot of people. Let them try, fail, try again.
If someone decides to sind >5000k into his "start up", good for him. But it's not for accounting or MLA regulations, it's for the very simple stuff. A website, some decent code,
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November 16, 2012, 08:52:12 AM
 #18


Web of Trust

http://bitcoin-otc.com/

you can for example see my feedback on bitcoin-otc and my orders in my sig.
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November 16, 2012, 09:02:55 AM
 #19

Sort of like the "Mircea hired a PR lady" story. Yes, that was a grand success.

What in the world are you on about?

Most of the eco-universe surrounding bitcoin consists of micro-breweries with handwritten receipts.
As those breweries grow, they will necessarily have to adapt most procedures outlined.
Then they will be able to buy a factory. But that's years later.

If you plan to live in a four room house arguably it's better to start building it according to the four room floor plan even if you're only building one room for now.

By and large, your abstract comes across kind of condescending, and I wonder what the motivation was to write such a pamphlat, since anyone could just open a business101-leaflet and be told just about the same thing (sans the btc specifica).

But the BTC specifica is very important, and moreover people don't tend to realize that the business 101 leaflet is relevant. Because "Bitcoin is new" or somesuch. So that's two reasons right there. In general, I am hired to speak for MPOE, and many of my posts fall in line with the general education CSR expenditure of that business.

(It's pamphlet btw).

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November 16, 2012, 09:06:07 AM
 #20

If you plan to live in a four room house arguably it's better to start building it according to the four room floor plan even if you're only building one room for now.


that argument is faulty.
a 4 room plan leaves no room for expansion.

only to stay within the general picture, i would compare the approach as outlined by me to acquiring some real estate with the option of building a home, a brewery or beer factory, according to business development.
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