As a user and entrepreneur who is still fairly new to these modern payment solutions, it's very easy for me to be supportive of Ripple. Meanwhile MPOE and his/her ilk are diminishing my like for Bitcoin ttytt.
I know exactly how you feel. Especially as it relates to whether or not to allow my business to be associated with such. As they say, all money isn't good money.  This brings an excellent opportunity for me to clarify some points: A. Internet dork != entrepreneur; Internet dork != businessman; Website != business; etc. B. Bitcoin is not a democracy. What you like is immaterial. Nobody asked you, it's not here to be shaped by you, it's here to shape you. C. Ripple is broken nonsense but complex enough to confuse Internet dorks who think they're entrepreneurs in charge of businesses on the strength they've made some website somewhere (at most). On top of that, there's a scamcoin layer which some people think will make them enough to allow them to exit at some point. It's pretty certain this will never happen (even if well positioned speculators may make a few bucks, like any HIYP/Ponzi in history). This is all, now let's keep on yakking, it's the Interwebs after all. OpenCoin is linked "for profit" business. The PR that misterbigg displays tell us that this is going absolutely nowhere. I and everyone I know have already unloaded every single ripple. It is a scam.
Congrats, you get the cookie. It is a fact that Mircea's arguments sometimes go a bit overboard and the personal accusations (maybe sometimes wrong) should be avoided, but if you can look behind the sarcasm then what you find is simple and basic logic. And guess what, at the end, logic always wins.
Name's Hannah, if you must. MP is my boss. MP is teh boss of us all. |
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I wish the Ripple haters would use all that energy (and even money in some cases) to encourage a Ripple competitor that isn't also a competitor to Bitcoin, say Bitcoin + Open Transactions + Bitmessage, instead of slandering Ripple. That would be a constructive contribution, in contrast with the destructive approach they are taking now.
The composition here is Ripple fanboys + realists, not "haters" and ripple pumping + realism, not "slander". Nice going with the labelwork, but it doesn't actually do anything. The only destructive thing going on is some irresponsible idiots + some very much interested shills pumping A SCAM which will make everyone, not just the idiots and the shills, look bad to the undiscerning public. Not very much so, it's not by any means a grave concern, but to keep things clear: pumping the scam is the destructive work here. |
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And that's the conflict of interest they've created for themselves.
An excellent example of what inept execution means. |
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Updated, added OC Ripple.
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Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer
Perhaps, but you have a point. Small claims are easier to prosecute and more potentially damaging in aggregate to the offender. Class action is a measure to protect THE RESPONDENT, not the litigants. Other people who, much like you, also aren't lawyers have much much less of a clue. |
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I think it's worth singling out this post and bringing it to everyone's attention because not only does it speak to the character of MPOE-PR but it also shows that not everything coming from this persona is accurate (although to be fair shim has been right about a few things, like Coinlab). I am not an employee of OpenCoin nor have I been paid or compensated to talk or do anything related to Ripple. It's interesting how I get called a shill, while certain bad actors are paying newbies to shill for anti-Ripple. It is true that I am the author of BearShare, but iMesh took it over a long time ago. Anything having to do with the RIAA getting details of the BearShare users has nothing to do with me. I must vigorously disagree that I am "made out of shit." Quite the contrary if anyone is "made out of shit" I think it is probably MPOE-PR although this a matter of opinion. It seems he resorts mostly to ad hominems, or worse name calling. Compare and contrast the content of my posts where I try to present facts in a calm and concise manner, versus the other guy's which routinely resort to name calling, slander, and disinformation. Far from being "against Bitcoin" or wanting Ripple to "destroy Bitcoin" I am bullish on both: I hold most of my net worth in Bitcoin and XRP in equal amounts. My feeling is that Ripple and Bitcoin are complementary with each having their own strengths. I'm also a contributor to both the Bitcoin repository as well as the Ripple repository. Interesting that when I look through the commit log of either, I see nothing from either MPOE-PR or his puppet master. I've had lots of experience with forum trolls (the BearShare forums were raunchy!) and when I read anything from MPOE-PR, I just mentally note that everything written is "for entertainment purposes only." Perhaps someday, hot air will be a viable source of alternative energy but until then MPOE-PR will remain delegated to the dust-bin of irrelevance. So basically, you made a fake torrent piece of spyware, but it's not true that you made a fake torrent piece of spyware, and you're a shill but you're not a shill, and more words and even pictures. Well done. Your protest doth not convince. Carry on. |
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Yes, that is called "Ripple" before OpenCoin Inc bought it and turned it into a venture for their new cryptocurrency. It exists, it works fine, and there's no XRPs or transaction fees.
But, as you must know, while it works fine it is incomplete and *they are finishing the job*. XRP, with all its sketchy properties looks like it was the key to their being able to do so. Except it still doesn't do anything. So yeah, adding a scam to a dysfunctional system resulted in a lot of shills being advanced some quarters and doing their thing, on obscure blogspot blogs and on obscure bitcointalk accounts. A great success indeed, call the freakshow VCs, the coin* failure shall be nothing compared. |
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Without actually reading all of this, what's the situation like?
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Back when good ol' TradeHill shut down, I carried a btc balance that I have emailed about several times over the last year to varrious emails @tradehill.com and other contacts for Jered Kenna without even getting a reply. I had just assumed that things had really failed badly and that TradeHill was no more, but a few days ago I went to the site and discovered it has now returned with a re branding of TradeHill Prime (DunderMifflin Infinity) and is now reopening.
At the time of closure, I had 3.24 and some change btc setting in my account and luckily got my usd out just in time before the site went AWOL. I have sent emails without response. I was willing to forgive the debt when I thought TradeHill was closed and not using my coins to fund a new exchange. I expect an email with at least an explanation is in order here Jered, dont you?
They pay if people make a lot of noise. They ignore it otherwise. So, make a lot of noise. The more it looks to Scammer Kenna like the cost to his reputation exceeds the cost of your balance, the likelier it is you'll get paid. |
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It's interesting that the people arguing against ripple are the ones who stand most to lose, their main fear is that other people would choose XRP as speculative investment over Bitcoin.
Let's quote here, shall we. Problem 0. First, to get some nonsense out of the way. A system of colored coins, a p2pexchange or somesuch does not necessarily constitute competition for MPEx.
It's not the case that I'm stuck in the present model, threatened by anything and everything coming along. It's the case that I sit comfortably at the top of the chain. If I believe at any point there is value or use in them I can just... take... them. If experience is any guide, I shall take them the next day. Either, both, something similar. Further along those lines, MPEx makes plenty each month, certainly enough to afford it development of anything it wishes developed. To spec, by a competent team if need be.
So, if I say no it's not because of any other reason than simply the obvious : I do not believe them to be either useful or practical. Which allows us to move on to a discussion of that, which I hope will be instructive. MPEx makes more in a good month than the entire value of "VC" investment in all of Ripple. That's right, all Katz&Shill co labor added together is nothing compared to what MPEx makes. Not even going into the financial subtleties of what it means to be valued in the 700k BTC range. So, no. Mr Bear doesn't say Miss LittleShitInTheRain is worthless because he's threatened by it. He just doesn't feel it appealing. Because it stinks. Yeah, tell me more why should I stop using IOUs issued by at least somehow legally regulated corporations, and join the happy lawless Ripple family.
Just look how great this works in practice. Fortunately, misterbigg seems to be on the case. He frankly has the patience (I do not) and the knowledge to field such "loaded" questions. I'll leave you gentlemen to it.
Maybe he's just getting paid better than you. I find it hysterical tho, this guy is famous for having made a pretend-torrent that was mostly used as a trojan horse for the RIAA to get the details of users. He dropped off the radar, a few years later he's here promoting Ripple hardcore. How little changes if you're made out of shit, huh. |
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In fairness to ripple, MP appears to not totally understand ripple. He seems to be confusing XRP with IOUs/debt on occasion (in the IRC conversation) and also making the mistake many have made of believing if you trust someone and they then trust someone else that causes a problem.
In practical terms: the person was given some XRP, the person took out some BTC. At some point somewhere there existed a conversion of XRP for BTC, via the IOU system. to trade XRPs for IOUs
This is all that's needed. "Well... that's not how Ripple works. As long as you trust both Lou Jiwei and some random Chinese dude any people who trust you can trade LJ's yuans straight for the random dude's."
The emboldened part should read "any people who trust LJ and hold random dude's yuan can exchange random dude's yuan for any of LJ's yuan that YOU hold".
Well thank you for that. Passed this along, we all got to enjoy one of those rare "holy shit!" MP faces. Apparently that's what he meant to say. Thanks! The general issues pointed out by MP at the start ARE real problems of course - particularly the whole system being based on a requirement that users willingly accept CP risk (I might not get my money back) and opportunity cost (my money isn't earning anything) without remuneration. If the software is amended to fix the specific issue discussed in this thread (which effectively blind-sides people into providing general liquifity when they thought they were holding specific debt) then it's hard to see where liquidity will come from - as providing liquidity at significant risk but with no benefit isn't going to appeal to too many people (not ones who still have significant funds that is - the ones willing to do that should mostly have lost their money by now doing the same stupid thing before).
All of that said, if I can figure out some way to pay interest on Ripple I'd seriously considering offering bonds on it. If there's people willing to provide liquidity for no cost then I'm guessing I wouldn't have to pay a very high rate - making it a cheaper way to fund-raise than I currently use.
Quoting this mostly so it doesn't get as quickly covered by the prattle of idiocy. |
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The one where open source === closed source?
Yes, this fascinating reality where "we" ie, Joel, Katz and the voices are awaiting the rest of the world. Joel, really: take your meds. They're good for you. Even if they make you lethargic and stupid, it's still a net benefit. |
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It's not an obsession. Individual lawsuits would be tedious, 90% of them would not be able to surpass "small claims" status and would not have the desired impact and/or implication of the greater picture. The fact that hundreds if not thousands are being swindled out of there money. A calculated, organized, hit like a class action lawsuit represented by powerful attorneys would finally put this nightmare to an end.
I think you are completely missing the point. What's missing to make a bunch of small claims into a successful class action suit is a) calculated; b) organized; c) a bunch of powerful attorneys; d) a basis for all this. Simply renaming the collection of small claims into "a class action suit" does not accomplish any of these any more than the re-re-relabelling of US unemployment or homelessness finds people jobs or homes. I am sure the cost would be minimal as this is a popular subject right now and the media attention alone would be worth thousands to a firm. I also believe that BFL does have some significant assets even if they are hidden I'm sure a group of savy tech people like this one could track down a good portion of those assets.
This sort of "I'm sure nothing that's popular costs anything" nonsense shows plainly you have no idea how things work. For your own benefit (ie to get your brain out of the swamp), compile a list of all the people famous during the '90s, put on one column a "famous index", percentile of fame total as evaluated by you and on the other column their total net worth as a percentile of the total net worth of the world. Or, if you prefer ten zeroes after the point instead of twelve, go with a percentile of the decade's worldwide GDP. You've not quite built communism yet. The currency of the land still isn't "fame". Why exactly do you think the media can't even afford to pay the sort of clueless interns currently involved? (Since we're doing research tasks to benefit your education, find twenty successful class action suits, calculate the average litigation costs over the set, divide it by "thousands" and report the multiplier. That's how many times you have to say "sorry I'm lazy and stupid, will do more research on my own in the future".) |
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you need to triple your trust rating first
I don't think that's possible before he triples his brains, which would likely require tripling his age first. |
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Hey, I'm not the one who lent Patrick money at usurious rates knowing that he was going to use the money in a business that was doomed to fail and then insisted I was doing him a favor. I'm the one who pointed the finger at you for that bit of stupidity.
Get lost, liar. |
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I had been using betsofbitco.in for almost two years without an issue, before that decision made me stop using the site altogether.
I wouldn't call it a scam though, just misjudgement under pressure.
Misjudgement is the thing for which people apologize. Coinjedi is clearly not either sorry nor of the opinion he did anything wrong. Which I could see, if he's gotten paid for it. Had the admin made the call to say "It didn't ship" everyone who voted against it would have been up in arms.
I think you might be a little confused. Who's up in arms is immaterial, who's in the right is the only thing that matters. Reality isn't the result of voting, scams are the result of voting. What the fuck are you talking about and spreading libel calling a site hundreds of people use (with no complaints) a scam Read the links, try and keep abreast of the news, get out from under your rock? |
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think that Ripple has the potential to be very big - and I'm sure that many on these forums agree
Everything has the potential to be very big. Farts for instance. When you sit down to take a shit, the doogie has the potential to be very big. So what of it? What difference does it make that you take one large dump or a few smaller ones? Other than, you know, the former might be a little painful. Q: How is Ripple a Ponzi if: A - XRP are given away, and B - There's a finite supply?
A: It has absolutely nothing in common with a Ponzi. You're new here are you? Ponzi promised clients a 50% profit within 45 days, or 100% profit within 90 days, by buying discounted postal reply coupons in other countries and redeeming them at face value in the United States as a form of arbitrage. How is it anything else. You have no argument other than: Ponzi has something to do with stamps, and some people say Ripple is like stamps. Gimme a break, what is this, grade 10? They are giving the XRP away in order to grow the infrastructure of a distributed currency exchange. Your statement was: It has absolutely nothing in common with a Ponzi.
Do you even know what the fuck words mean at all? That aside: the idea is that you can acquire these "stamps" for next to nothing in some place and then redeem them for more later. This is the engine driving whatever scrawny speculation is occuring in XRP, other than the insiders pumping it up. There's no value, utility or convenience delivered by Ripple. Perhaps there will be at some future point, but almost certainly not by a system run by the current people involved (it's very amusing to note how pretty much all Bitcoin's ambitious failures, from Caleb to Katz gravitate towards this new thing, in the ultimately vain hope that they were pushed aside in Bitcoin for any other reason than because they're stupid, worthless failures). |
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Well the direct answer to the 'argument' you're making is that it's NOT roughly comparable. To address it in any more depth would be giving credibility to the strawman you constructed.
Ahaha Joel CherryTruck Insanikatz strikes again. Why not have different levels of trust? Like say I have Mt.Gox and Bitstamp on my first tier, and I consider those equal value and provide liquidity for them. And then tier two could be my immediate family/friends I trust. And then lower tiers for other more risky people/gateways such as TradeFortress.
Is the system not compatible with this arrangement?
Also, why not reward the people providing liquidity with XRP as a transfer fee to offset some of the risk?
Because they don't read Trilema. More importantly, because they can't afford actual consultants and don't have who to give them the quarter to buy a clue with. |
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Satoshidice - IS based on irrefutable mathematics that behave in an honest manner under normal conditions, sometimes bets are delayed by 24 hours giving the house the window to bruteforce a hash that will be the most beneficial, the house or anyone else that receives access to the secret list ahead of time can submit selective bets and get a significantly lower house edge.
Almost anyone associated with them speaks in an intellectually appalling language and is full of unapologetic loose cannons, except Voorhees himself.
SealsWithClubs - Uses ancient software, game-play connection is not secure.
Lmao user reg'd April 19th, is this a mem sock or just a mem-level idiot? |
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