It is not the only updated merged mined coin client though, is it?

Isn't it based on the updated I0Coin?

So that it has the memory-usage updates that were first deployed in I0Coin?

-MarkM-

Re fees, remember that "coin age" is part of the fee calculations too, so if one time that you send an amount you had old coins adding up to that amount you will get one fee but then if next time you try to send the same amount and the only coins you have left to use are new ones (such as when you only had about enough and the only reason you have it again to send it again is the other person testing with you sent it back to you) the fee could well be higher because part of the anti=spam concept is to discourage sending the same coins back and forth back and forth back and forth like you might be doing in your testing if you didn't have much in the wallet that you are testing with in the first place.

That is part of why I tried to suggest lookign what the fee would be using one version of the client - an old one already in use for a long long time - then look what the new client would say the fee would be for the same amount sent using the same wallet. In other words don't actually send the coins since that would change the contents of the wallet. Just look what the client says the fee would be, then try the other client to see what it says the fee would be.

Once you actualyl send the wallet changes, and if you send most of what you have then the other tester sends it back it has become new coins, each send consumes "coin age", the newer the coins you want to send the more it looks like you are spamming the blockchain by sending back and forth or around in circles, which, taken to extremes, is one method of spamming blockchains thus one thing the anti spam stuff is trying to discourage aka make expensive.

However if I understand the posts-so-far correctly I get the impression the problem has actually been that one of the testers was not downloading what they thought they were downloading due to some"placeholder" concept confusing which files are which versions for what platforms.

...

Re the volatility not knowing how much a share is does increase the unpredictability. It does not really seem all that hard to figure out that a devcoin is worth usually somewhere between 30 and 230 satoshis, nor that is as been more usual lately to be between 30 and 130 than between 130 and 230. SO I think a lot of that side of the uinpredictability is easily solved by not placing "market orders" but instead simply placing a sell offer at a a price of your choosing, such as at the price your budget or business plan assmed.

e.g. If your business plan calls for being able to get 100 satoshis of bitcoin per devcoin, place your order at that price. It might take a while, but there does not seem to really be much doubt that one can get that much per devcoin even though we did go through a longer dry spell than hoped/expected lately between one time offers to sell at 100 were gobbled up and the previous period in which such offers were gobbled up.

It is a queue, really. Everyone who wants to dump their devcoins is in a first in first out queue at any particular price. The delay in getting your offers to sell at 100 accepted by a buyer is partly due to all the people who placed their offer to sell at that price before you did. Then also by all the people who got impatient and decided to place their offer at 99 so it would get acted upon before all of the offers to sell at 100. Then some folk get even more impatient and decide they won't wait for 99, they will wait for 98 which will come sooner, so a queue starts to build up at 98. And so on.

I have orders placed way up over 300, I only recall seeing such orders gobbled up once but I plan to have it happen again so I have offers up there so as to be first in line to sell at those prices when the time does come that they start being acted upon.

-MarkM-

It might not be as bad for screwing around with the suposed definitions of the coin as RUCoin (the older "Russian coin", maybe the previous coin by the same gang behind the same exchange)  but the way they muck about with its "rules" just compounds the dubiousness of it.

Once it becomes clear the people behind a coin - maybe even including the exchange behind it - are crooks it just seems better to avoid the coin(s), the exchange, and, if possible through fogs of sockpuppet forum-accounts and so on, the crooks themselves.

-MarkM-

Well I do like to put offers at every satoshi of price so DOGE looks convenient for that if nothing else.

Until they add an option to go like "spread this many coins across this price through this price on each satoshi for me okay thanks that is cool".

(It takes many many 16+ hour days of just sitting there typing to do it manually, even if skipping by 1000 satoshis at a time then going back in filling in the 500's then going back in and filling in the 250's etc etc etc and after many days I am still skipping by 5's on some coins.)

-MarkM-

Didn't infinitecoin or infinitycoin or something like that also have huge numbers of coins/minting?

-MarkM-

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=385608.msg4149750#msg4149750

-MarkM-

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=385608.msg4149750#msg4149750

-MarkM-

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=385608.msg4149750#msg4149750

-MarkM-

I helped develop DeVCoin and am a "tenured developer" and a Devtome author so even if I did not hold any Devcoins I would have a vested interest in its exchange rate as it is one of my employers so to speak. It is also a merged mined coin so I also have a small income of them from mining too.

Thus I have watched its exchange rate long term and noticed it has gone down to somewhere around 30 satoshis and up over 300. This last peak though my sell offers only got bought up up through 193.

So on the bottom end I try to keep it from hitting zero and on the sell side I place sell offers all the way from 350 satoshis on down, an offer at every possible price. I only saw it go over 300 once, but boy was that a good day, I sold 100 million on the way up and bought them back again on the way down (way down, cannot recall exactly but probably in the neighborhood of 30), so at the end of the day I still had my hundred million plus a hundred bitcoins for my trouble and still had bitcoins left to again put offers at every possible satoshi of price all the way up the buy side and offers at every satoshi of price all the way down from 350 to make sure if it tried for the moon again I'd be waiting for it with offers some distance up past where I'd seen it go in the past.

As I said, that paid off just recently as that recent spike ate my sell offers all the way up through 193.

Which meant this time I was able to place my buy offers at a larger scale. So I placed offers to buy ten million divided by the number of satoshis of price all the way up to 50 satoshis or 60 maybe or whatever, noticed I had lots of bitcoin left so did the same again. Hopefully eventually there will be buy orders sitting way down at the bottom of the buy side sufficient to eat the entire 200 million coins per month that get minted, and eventually enough to buy every devcoin that has ever been minted.

At that point the top of that pile of buy offers will be a pretty secure floor on the price, since it would take every devcoin ever minted to knock it down to zero and as soon as any nibbles are taken out of the top of it I can put them back up at 350 satoshis and downward from there.

Then as more sell offers get taken I will be able to gradually increase the height of the buyside total-consumption-of-all-devcoins pile, gradually forcing the price floor upward.

Obviously this is not the strategy of a slash-and-burn farmer but rather it aims at sustainable cryptoculture.

Once DeVCoin has a solid floor, I will focus more on the next merged mined coin, and the next, and the next, and the next, until all seven child-chains of the merged mined family of coins have price-floors, all of which I will keep trying to increase in height aka price.

I do this on Vircurex of course, originally because no other altcoin exchange seemed responsible about what coins to list, and now also because those bitcoins sitting there in lowball buy-offers earn "interest" from Vircurex's fees so even if no one ever sells into those offers they are earning anyway, which is super-nice and yet another reason to pick Vircurex as my exchange-of-choice.

By the way you can get a discount on trading fees at Vircurex by signing up using a refferal URL, so here is a referral URL (mine) you can use if you wish:

https://vircurex.com/welcome/index?referral_id=597-1636

-MarkM-

So its kind of back to coin-age, thus kind of proof of stake, assuming it is yourself you are sending to, which it might as well be since we cannot tell it is not.

So its like making proof of stake less convenient by making you do sends periodically, so convenient/nice clients will do it for you, so you are back at proof of stake but with free constant bloating of the blockchain added, which sounds like a mis-feature...

-MarkM-

Fire up the old client using the same wallet and see if it says the same fee.

-MarkM-

Ripple hasn't spawned a flood of rip-of-the-day scamcoins yet so it will be interesting to see whether NXT does once its source code is released.

If it works, then maybe it might even turn out to be more compelling than Ripple as the platform for MBC, CDN, UKB, UNS, GMC, GRF, NKL etc to move to.

(The coins that, realising that securing a blockchain was insanely expensive to the point that it was simply not practical to even attempt it, moved to Open Transactions until such time as either they could reasonably expect to be able to secure a blockchain or some better platform / technology / format comes along. XRP has all kinds of extraneous stuff they do not need; if NXT is cleanly and simply just a cryptocurrency then maybe cloning NXT might be better than cloning XRP as a means of moving back to a distributed database format/platform. If not oh well it is not as if being only available on Open Transactins has hurt them much if at all, heck maybe it actually helped them. By making them not be vulnerable like blockchains are it maybe saved them from the ghastly ongoing suppressions of exhcange rate that kept bitcoin's value down for so long. Maybe all the alt chains forking and so on undermined confident in blockchains or something, all those irresponsible - criminally negligent maybe really - people putting out chains they had no intention of securing and no chance of securing might have trashed horribly the public's perception of how secure blockchains are maybe? Those coins ought never have been avle to ctch up with bitcoin in value let alone surpass it, that they did seems to maybe indicate that something somehow prevented bitcoin from exploding the way it should have, the way they did...)

-MarkM-

Scrypt ASICs if anyone actually wants to secure the thing; then, not an expection but a how to that maybe no one will bother with: upholding the exchange rate as described earlier in this thread or the other DOGE thread that has been bumping to the first page all day.

I do not have enough capital myself to do Ceilingdoge's job for him; I still do not have enough lowball buy offers on the DVC/BTC orderbook yet to absorb all 200,000,000 DeVCoins minted each month let alone all that have already been minted, and even once that is done DOGE might not necessarily be the next coin I will be supporting in that way. (For one thing, it is not part of the merged mined family; for another DVC is only one out of seven child-chains in the family so there is lots left to do just to support those...)

By then maybe we will see which scrypt coins are able to merged mined as primary chain and which of those can only be primary, and which are able to be child chains; and which are the two most difficult scrypt coins since number three is guaranteed to have less than half the hash-rate so maybe only the top two are all we need (why would we need one that is definitely less than half, except as the one to de-list to tidy up an exchange to keep it listing only the best coins? I am still wondering how long it will take for Vircurex to figure out which one to drop to make room for DOGE, hoping it is not going to just keep adding any one that manages to temporarily jump to number two or three thus end up full of junkcoins like all the scam-central exchanges that specialise in picking up each day's new scams...)

-MarkM-

And yet you pick a bunch of doomed losers?

Well maybe not. Are they all using the same type of hashing so that even just among themselves the fact that there are three or more of them means you know with absolute mathematical certainty that at least two of the four must, necessarily, have less than half the hash-rate?

Or are they using different forms of hashing to secure themselves, so that you have picked, from each type of hashing, the coin that you believe will have the highest hashrate among coins of that type?

To me at a glance with my poor recollections of the details of each (due to my initial examination of them long ago having caused me to add them to the "crapcoin" category), it looked like maybe at least three of them all use scrypt, therefore that at least one of them mathematically must have less than half of the scrypt hashrate?

So what are they, the number one hashrate, the numberr two hashrate, and the number three hashrate?

I doubt it because none of them are on Vircurex, and I think the three or so on Vircurex include some of the highest hashrate ones.

So how do you plan to secure even one of your picks? Buy more scrypt ASICs than almost any normal person, basically going into the busienss of being a massive major scrypt-ASIC-mining farm? Dedicated to securing one of those three or four coins?

Or do you plan to switch your super-massive scrypt mining farm to any other coin any time it looks like you'd make more profit per day gangbanging some other chain than spending all your electricity trying to secure whichever one of your current picks you end up deciding is worth dedicating such a huge farm to?

Or what?

-MarkM-

Chop it up into pieces, the who-ever's key splitting or whatever it is called, where you have a whole bunch of different law firms and curators and safe deposit boxes and so on each of which has only a fraction of the data needed to recreate the key or wallet but any N out of the total number of them can do it, in case some of them die or defect or whatever.

We are talking about a Foundation's long term stored total capital worth here right not some stupid little hot-wallet intended by design to be all a hacker can get and partly therefore also as bait to attract hackers and reward them if they find a hole in your security...

Never let a private key onto/into any third party hosting / machine / control / sight that controls more value than you can afford to lose and maybe even plan/budget to lose regularly during the course of its serving as a bounty to encourage people to find your security weaknesses.

-MarkM-

SECURE, not stable / robust / low-downtime.

SECURE as in when some Rackspace or whateverspace hosting company's employee uses his admin interface to access all the cryptocoin wallets of all the the customers. How many times did that happen already, have you been keeping count?

-MarkM-

Sounds like a challenge, folks!

What will it take to cause this chap to agree more?

Maybe he is capable of more agreement than he realises and merely needs more motivation or inspiration?

:evil:

-MarkM-

It might make their own ASICs expensive to design and manufacture, maybe, but I guess in the process they'll need to find or develop intellectual property for making ASIC circuitry for a number of different types of hashing, so maybe their ASIC development arm will make fortunes selling ASICs for all those different types of hashing to other people who want to start up a coin, so that it will no longer be necessary to launch a coin that uses a hashing not used yet before having ASICs for mining that coin already hitting the retail stores the same day the coin is launched or, maybe better, a day or few before the coin is launched.

"Get ready to camp in line outside The Source consumer-electronics shop folks, Good Friday the ASICs go on sale, Easter Sunday the key to decode the encrypted genesis block included with the source code goes on sale! Those of you buying pre-compiled clients, your client will decrypt the genesis block automatically as soon as you tell it the key!"

-MarkM-

Next he'll be saying there is no Santa Clause.

-MarkM- (Or, worse, no Santa Claus!)

Me, catching knives? Huh? The most I'd be doing is forum-trolling as usual and maybe putting in buy offers starting at one satoshi per coin each time some idiot buys more than one coin from me at more than one satoshi per coin.

(That is, use some fraction of the whatevercoins I get from selling DOGE at more than X satoshis to place an order to buy more at less than X satoshis. Knife? What knife? All the whatevercoins I'd offer to buy with would be just a portion of the profits I already made.)

-MarkM-