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1961  Economy / Economics / Re: Twitter ad sales down 59%, company valuation down 66% on: June 09, 2023, 05:31:22 AM
You are right! There is a hope that he wants to keep free speech on Twitter but there is another problem, billionaire and free speech? A billionaire that pumped and dumped market for personal growth and made people buy Dogecoin? A real shitcoin? .
To be fair, in United States the term freedom of speech has always been part of the dictatorship because it always comes down to one definition: "you are free to say whatever you like as long as what you say doesn't have any conflict with the regime's interest". It is not up to Musk or anybody else either, it is the US regime's decision considering how US sees the internet as a whole, a military ground and it is even under the supervision and control of the armed forces of US (under Department of Defense) and even has a 4-star general in "control" of it.

His intention was the development of an AI and now he says that it's a threat,
To be fair that too is the US regime's new policy. The shift happened in the past year with mass advertising of AI as something "dangerous" and there has been lots of attempts to "discourage others" from doing any kind of development in this field while US does it under the radar to try and get ahead since US has fallen far behind in AI technology specially for military applications.
1962  Bitcoin / Wallet software / Re: from closed source to open source wallet[what is the risk] on: June 09, 2023, 05:12:44 AM
Should I agree with this? Anyways you said "it can be argued". I believe open source concerns about making the codes visible and accessible to every developer. So, this shouldn't determine if a wallet is non custodial or not.
It can be open source and still compromised.
When we talk about security, it is sometimes like defensive measures you take to increase your protection against different types of attack hence increasing your security. For example when you use a non-custodial wallet you eliminate certain ways you could lose your money and bring yourself one step to being safe. When you use an open source wallet you eliminate other ways of losing your money,... when you use a popular open source wallet you eliminate another set of ways you could lose money, and so on.

You may never be able to eliminate every single way you could lose money but that doesn't mean you shouldn't try to eliminate what you can. This is why when it comes to choosing between a closed source wallet and open source wallet the later is always the choice whether or not there is any way that the later could also be compromised.
1963  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Should we have a two, or even three, tier fee structure? on: June 09, 2023, 04:43:07 AM
And I have repeatedly told you that this is simply false. Not always. Sure, block metadata is very limited, but transaction metadata is virtually not. It's entirely valid to send 0 coins to the Bitcoin whitepaper, represented as an OP_RETURN. This has always been the case. Sure, the Bitcoin network marks most of these as non-standard, but you're not arguing for standardness but for validity.
I'm talking about different ways of limiting different ways to attack Bitcoin. Sometimes it is a hard limit by making something invalid (eg. 100 byte limit above) sometimes it is a soft limit by making something non-standard. But in both cases we are preventing attacks and abuse of the system but with different approaches.

In case of standard rules, sometimes they are applied because we want to leave the protocol open for future expansions. Like witness version 2+ being nonstandard.
Sometimes they are applied because there was a flaw in the protocol that needed to be "fixed" without needing a fork. Like restricting the dummy data used by OP_CHECKMULTISIG(VERIFY) operations.

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And, as an emphasis to the title of this thread, the "problem" with Ordinals isn't that they're using the network as cloud storage per se. It's the extra buck "genuine Bitcoin users" have to pay to gain priority. If that wasn't the case, I'm pretty sure y'all wouldn't care the slightest of what these people do. You just don't think it's "worth" the extra buck to have them on the chain, but I'm honestly curious if you acknowledge this way of thinking can be imposed on your activity as well.
The actual problem as I have said many times is that people are abusing Bitcoin. The extra fees is the side effects of that abuse. There are a handful of other negative side effects of this types of attacks, including but not limited to: blockchain bloat, the UTXO bloat with dust outputs, extra cost of running a node, possible legal issues involving the content of this attack that could give some malicious governments the excuse to put pressure on businesses and individuals using bitcoin, ...
1964  Economy / Economics / Re: 3x inflation in my life time (Im 30) does bitcoin fix this? on: June 08, 2023, 08:32:09 AM
how does bitcoin fix this?
Considering how "this" means the economy on the global scale where the centralized governments in each country keep printing money non-stop and without any actual cap, the answer is no. Bitcoin can not and is not designed to fix the economy or fix the government or the banking system.
In other words governments have been printing fiat non-stop before bitcoin and they will continue doing so after bitcoin (2009). They just raised the money printing cap (debt ceiling) in US to print trillions more Tongue

Bitcoin is supposed to be that extra option for those who want to gain at least some financial sovereignty in a world where it is lacking.

1965  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Atomic Wallet hacked! Get your funds out now! on: June 08, 2023, 08:24:55 AM
Yeah, about that!
It happens when you let third parties to manage your funds, when will people learn that bitcoin is money and since there is no central safe keeping party to insure the safety of your funds, you should never put your funds in the hands of crypto-bank wannabes.
Since Atomic Wallet was not a custodial wallet, users weren't exactly putting their funds in the hands of the company behind the wallet. They had control over their own funds but the problem was that because the wallet is closed source they didn't know who else also has access to their keys and consequently their funds.
1966  Bitcoin / Wallet software / Re: from closed source to open source wallet[what is the risk] on: June 08, 2023, 04:34:05 AM
In addition to what is discussed here you should not forget that migrating to an open source wallet is not going to provide complete security on its own. There is a lot of other things that need to be done to gain a good degree of security.

I'd say at least there are two important steps:

First step is to making sure you are actually getting the correct software for installation. This is done through some research and finally by finding the correct public key of the developers and verifying the signature of the wallet binaries you are about to install. Example for Electrum: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5240594.0
Otherwise if you skip this important step you may lose funds in this step.

Second step is to securing the wallet you chose. For example by using it offline (in an airgap computer) as opposed to using it online on the same system you use to surf the internet.
1967  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: What is the differences between Hash and Secp256k1? on: June 08, 2023, 04:22:55 AM
but encryption is reversible and a hash function is not.
If encryption is reversible, then how is still Bitcoin's alive? Every day thousands of public keys are exposed
There are a couple of mistakes in the odolvlobo's comment.
First of all Elliptic Curve Cryptography used in bitcoin has nothing to do with encryption. The primary use of ECDSA (the signature algorithm used by bitcoin) is also for asymmetric cryptography not symmetric cryptography (ie. encryption/decryption).
Secondly what we have in symmetric cryptography is encryption and decryption which is not the same as "reversing" the result. You are "decrypting" the encrypted result using the passphrase used for encryption. Otherwise the encryption is also irreversible, meaning you can't compute the message by having the encrypted result alone.
1968  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: What's Wrong with Roger Ver? ::) on: June 06, 2023, 04:49:46 PM
I don't know if he is a kind of developer/programmer or whatever. How did he help Bitcoin? Of course, he helped build a business with Bitcoin which Bitcoiners appreciate. When some of us call him a scammer, people argue.  Roll Eyes Instead, they call him a pure businessman who adopted Bitcoin for his benefit and is still vouching for a centralized Token with no supply limit and no proof of work!
It doesn't really matter what he may have done for bitcoin in the past if you ask me. What matters is the scam he pulled in the end.
I'm not going to make accusations and I don't really care enough to find out what he has done in early years but one wonders whether his intentions were always to scam people. After all this is not the first time, the most recent case was Elon Musk who gained some popularity in the cryptocurrency world by speaking positively about bitcoin, even accepting bitcoin in his companies right before he started scamming people with pump and dumping shitcoins, namely Doge.
1969  Economy / Economics / Re: I hear de-dollarsotaion over and over again it's funny on: June 06, 2023, 12:58:02 PM
Smart question Will be when we Will see USD Market trading pairs being removed halted or replaced by other currencies?
You ask this question because you have been reading propaganda about dedollarisation not the reality of it which is why your question which you think is smart is actually an unrealistic question that makes no sense.

Dedollarisation is not going to make USD disappear or the trading pairs to vanish. Dedollarisation means different countries are no longer forced to only use this fiat with unlimited supply from an artificial country with almost $32 trillion debt that is printing it non-stop and exports the resulting inflation to those countries.
The real dedollarisation means reduction of dependence on dollar, that consequently reduces USD strength and US power to dictate policies in those countries while strengthening the economy and independence of those countries. So countries that were using USD for 90%-100% of their everything (reseve currency and trading medium) will slowly reduce that to 80%, 70%, 50%, 30%,...

For example after dedollarisation when Indonesia wants to trade with Philippines they don't have to do it using dollar anymore. They'll use numerous different ways they used for thousands of years before United States was invented or they were forced to use dollar and dollar alone. But when each of them want to trade with US or its colonies they can still keep using dollar.

Most importantly, this process is not going to finish over night.
1970  Economy / Speculation / Re: Time to Hodl or buy the Dip? on: June 06, 2023, 12:46:43 PM
The global economy is too uncertain right now to make any serious investments in my opinion. And it is not only about bitcoin, it is about everything else too. With the ongoing recession and inflation and with the recent re-start of the money printing machines in United States after they increased the debt ceiling we are in for more of economic uncertainty.

For now stick with DCA and HODL...
1971  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin(BTC) vs wrappedBitcoin(wBTC) on: June 06, 2023, 10:40:22 AM
I had heard of wrapped bitcoin but did not know about all these coins pegged to the bitcoin price. What is the point of them? The only one I see is to catch clueless people like the OP's friend.
That's exactly the reason, to catch newbies who don't know any better.

The principle is usually the same too with all tokens (including stable coins). The creators of such tokens have no money, no revolutionary idea or anything they could use to make money. So instead they sell "air". They simply create these tokens and start selling them to newbies, making money in the process!

The fact that there is also "staking" on top of it where you get profit for holding your bitcoins in THEIR pocket shows what a filthy Ponzi scheme this is Cheesy
These things don't fall apart like regular schemes since there is a market where people keep trading them. In other words some of them manage to create an artificial utility that lasts as long as the gamblers keep trading. Then it falls apart catastrophically.
1972  Economy / Speculation / Re: SEC Lawsuit Against Binance Is Likely To Hit Bitcoin Price on: June 06, 2023, 10:28:39 AM
At the end of the day Binance is primarily an altcoin exchange and whatever happens to it should affect the altcoin market significantly not bitcoin's. But realistically speaking the FUD always finds its way to the bitcoin market and affects the weak hands hence causing the drops like we've seen too many times in the past.
Besides, what SEC does to Binance is not the issue here, what the FUD is going to be and how it will affect the market is the only thing that matters.
1973  Economy / Economics / Re: Twitter ad sales down 59%, company valuation down 66% on: June 06, 2023, 06:31:44 AM
One of the buyers of Twitter together with Musk was a Saudi prince. Maybe Musk will start offering censorship/propaganda/data harvesting service to governments for a large fee to offset his ad revenue losses.
They have been doing that for many years but it officially started under the code-name "Etidal" in 2017 aiming to data harvest, censor what the regime doesn't like (eg. news about the journalist they murdered in broad daylight) and to spread extremism/terrorism when they want it in places they want. Saudi regime is only one of many customers Twitter has for such operations.

Keep in mind that Musk didn't buy Twitter to make profit (as a business). He did it to gain power over information and in the political scene. This means such drops does not matter at all, the only drop that matters is in the number of users and the propaganda's reach which is not happening so far.
1974  Economy / Economics / Re: Dedollarization is here, like it or not on: June 05, 2023, 03:11:51 PM
Russia has also faced some when they tried to take INR instead of US dollars and then they have no other means to use those INR, and now they have useless Indian currency. (source).
That news is mostly twisted and the situation is blown out of proportion. Of course there is going to be disagreements and most importantly competition between countries that want their own fiat to be dominant not other countries'. What we are seeing is the transitional phase where things change while different countries compete with each other to get a bigger share in the new world order.
In fact this is the period where weak countries are going to be swallowed, even borders may change. And this has happened many times in the history.

they will overcome them and will come up with such the bold moves that they made when Saddam Hussain declare to use the Pond as a payment method instead of US dollar in Iraq for the trade of their Oil and US invaded Iraq after that with the slogan (mission name " freedom of Iraq" something like that)
It took nearly a decade to prepare for that invasion (sanctioning Iraq, causing famine and starvation in the country, disarming of Iraq, attacking defensive positions of Iraq, etc.) then US invaded with a massive coalition with NATO and dozens of countries like Ukraine.
The difference is that there are loads of countries that are dumping dollar these days and US neither has the time to prepare for such invasions nor the global coalition to perform such invasions nor any are those countries weak to be invaded.


As @Darker45 put it perfectly, the process is not linear and has ups and downs. With the recent 15th BRICS summit the dedollarisation should speed up again among the member countries (both official and unofficial members). I'm waiting for more news about it to come up with a better analysis, but so far many positive news has come out with numerous economical cooperation that would help all the involving economies and some of which involve dumping dollar.
1975  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: BRC-20 needs to be removed on: June 05, 2023, 12:11:38 PM
On the contrary , ordinals increase the security of the network by increasing the income of miners so the security overall ,
You could also perform a spam attack on the network to increase the fees and the income of the miners. Like 2017!

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while LN "steal" fees from miners .
Wrong. LN doesn't remove on-chain transactions. In fact it increases the usage since people would have to open and close channels to enter and exit LN.

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Your problem is not to invest a couple hundred dollars to buy some TB disks while miners invest millions . That's insane , guys that want to spend nothing trying to control people that invest much money . Tired of hearing that apples and oranges comparison .
That's just technobabble to justify abuse.
Bottom line is that whatever blockchain size is and whatever TB disks nodes buy doesn't change the fact that Bitcoin is not a cloud storage service.
1976  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Atomic Wallet hacked! Get your funds out now! on: June 05, 2023, 11:59:47 AM
but the software can still make API/RPC remote calls into the software where by a remote user can control what the software on your device does
That's a different story and it can not happen at the same time with being open source. Unless the project is unpopular and nobody cares enough to look through the source code, such an obvious attack vector is found rather quickly.
1977  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Atomic Wallet hacked! Get your funds out now! on: June 05, 2023, 07:34:56 AM
The so-called non-custodial wallet must have been sending your wallet info to their servers, that's the only way the hackers could've got to it.
Tsk. I don't know what to expect to other wallet that is claimed "non-custodial" wallet anymore. If this kind of structure are followed by other those "non-custodial" wallets then people should think twice using and installing them. Unless they are open source and can be installed by available binaries released of the software for own build.
There has been a lot of cases where the companies use "buzzwords" to attract customers who would later lose their money. Like Binance calling the centralized alt-platform a DEX, or closed source wallets call themselves safe and throw around terms like "non-custodial".

When it comes to security, when certain things are lacking your security is as good as compromised. So when you see a wallet developing team making a silly reasoning like this trying to justify being closed-source, you should know that something is seriously wrong:
Here's our reasoning behind keeping our wallet a partly closed source app:
- Atomic Wallet is a unique product created by a hard-working team.
- We don't want to make scammers' jobs easier.
- We don't want fake apps to boom in numbers.
1978  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: BRC-20 needs to be removed on: June 05, 2023, 06:22:24 AM
I honestly see no difference whatsoever between the "Ordinals Attack" and the Lightning Network Attack on Bitcoin.  They are literally the same thing.
I honestly don't see how you can even begin to compare the two. They are like apples and oranges.

In Ordinals Attack you are storing arbitrary data (like bytes representation of an image) in the bitcoin blockchain by exploiting a flaw in the Taproot protocol. That is to treat blockchain as a cloud storage.

In Lightning Network the only thing you do on-chain is to send bitcoin in normal bitcoin transactions to a normal bitcoin address whenever you open/close a channel. There is no extra junk data being stored on chain. That is to treat blockchain as a payment system (what every other tx is doing too).
1979  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: What's Wrong with Roger Ver? ::) on: June 04, 2023, 05:16:50 PM
But, he is not a scammer and he is not a con man, as people like to claim.
It is not a claim, it is a fact.
If you pay for a bar of gold but in return they hand you a piece of wood painted yellow, what would you call that?

In case of Ver, newbies went on google and searched for "how to buy bitcoin". Then they found a website that ended with ".com" and was called "bitcoin" so they went there thinking they have found the "official" bitcoin website. Then they clicked on "buy bitcoin" and ordered "bitcoin" and paid for "bitcoin" hoping to receive "bitcoin" but instead they received a garbage called bcash.
If that is not called a scam, I don't know what is!
1980  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Mempool hit my usual 15sats/vbyte today on: June 04, 2023, 05:06:54 PM
You are correct.
The Ordinals Attack lost some of its hype so the number of junk transactions went down very slightly. It is too soon to celebrate it though since the attack is still ongoing and the exploit is not fixed yet.
Another major contributed is the price stagnation which always leads to lower trading volume hence less on-chain transactions (less transfer to and from exchanges) hence bringing down the mempool congestion.
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