On the one hand it might be bad news when one after another core developers turns their back at Bitcoin but:

Do the masses care/even know about this? I doubt that very much.

Strange policy here:

I posted a topic about a service that is yet to be determined whether it's a scam or and I tried to give my impressions on it. My topic was ported to trash. Well, maybe I did something wrong but:

A very similar thread about the same web site is still there and nobody seems to care.

Well, I guess people measure with different sticks here - that stinks. And kills the opportunity for giving information to others.

Best


iFlash

I heard that they want to bring down the time the invested money is "blocked" as there seems to be a great demand for that.

But I can understand that it's important for them to have a "guaranteed" source of money to trade the arbitrage. I could imagine that they would do shorter plans that would generate less interest, though.

Let's see - they have just been around since last November. I am pretty sure that they will have more products available in future.

Best

iFlash

Hello Coin-Cons,

to paint a possible scenario, I made an excel chart based on the initial invest and the fact that I will re-invest any payouts during my journey. The result:

After 120 days (which means around 85 trading days) and an average payout of 0,84 per cent interest per day (which is the average since last Friday), I might have doubled my invest.

But that also means: If I would reinvest the whole thing again, after 120 days I would have gained 100 per cent a second time and so on. The effecitve interes p.a. is around 900 per cent.

Okay. Now all the alarm bells should ring, shouldn't they?

Well: It all really comes down on the question: Can they make around 0,84 per cent profit through arbitrage or not? If you answer the question with "yes" (like I did), then everything else is pure math. An interest of that amount simply leads to the 900 per year (if you re-invest) because that's how interest works.

Now is a gain like this sustainable? And if so, how long is it sustainable?

Bitcoin is a VERY young market, with only a couple of million people actually following it these days. I would say it is fair to believe that if Bitcoin wants to have a chance at all, we would need far more people joining the party. And I would assume that there will be many, many more users over the next few years.

And as long as new users are coming to the market, the arbitrage trading will just work great. Only if the user numbers of services like bitcoin-trader grow faster than the bitcoin user basis, the profits for those investors would vanish.

Best,

iFlash

Hello,

I have just started with them last Friday (after quite some research).

From all the "opportunities" I have seen, this one looked most promising. I did pbmining.com before (broke even and just sold my hash to somebody else) and was bombarded by all the nay-sayers.

I expect it to be the same with BT.biz.

So far all is good. My plan is to re-invest everything until I have maxed out on the shares I own. Then I will just get the daily payments. This will take some time, though. If they are legit and their business still works in a year, I will be a very happy investor. If not, I will have lost some fiat which I do not care about too much.

Best

iFlash

Dear Coin-Cons,

Now I saw many, many of those High Yield stuff but I felt that  bitcoin-trader (yes, there is a ref-link included) actually have a case: Arbitrage is proven to generate incredible results if done clever. In fact, that's where the high frequency traders make their money as well, don't they?

So last week I gave it a try and I want to share the results with you on a regular basis.

I am in with 1.600 USD and only bought into their trading shares (they also offer mining shares but I think that this is simply not very profitable at all). A share is priced at 20 USD and it will generate interest of about 0,8 per cent daily (Monday to Friday that is) for 120 days (your money can not be taken out during that time).

Whenever the interest sums up to 20 USD I immediately buy another share to maximise the effect of interest. After 120 days your initial shares are converted back to money, so you end up with your principal and the interest generated during the way is your profit.

So far, so good.

The downside is that they do not pay out on weekends although BTCs are traded, of course. One could think that they still trade with your money and keep the profit for themselves (on top of the percentage that they will take anyway during the week). But as long as they generate interest - fine with me.

Now I know what the usual suspects will says: It's a scam, it just has to be one.

I don't know. The business model looks legit to me. They need the money from investors because otherwise they can not do the arbitrage trading in the first place. The more money they have to trade the higher their profit is as it's a percentage. I think the real "risk" with this is: When there are too many users with them, they might not be able to find enough trades with arbitrage to use all of the money available. This would constantly bring down the overall interest for each user.

Now to the numbers: I started last Friday with 78 shares (equals 1.560 USD). With the profits of the last days I was able to buy 2 more shares, so now I am at 1.600 USD)

If people want to follow how I am doing I will post on regular basis about my progress.

Happy trading,


iFlash

Hallo,
 
wie ihr vielleicht wisst, habe ich bei pbmining.com vor ca. 4 Monaten 1 TH/s gekauft für 5 Jahre gekauft.
 
Seit heute bin ich quasi break even (8,85 BTC gemined).
 
Ich habe vor 4 Monaten 0,0089 BTC pro GH/s bezahlt, also 8,9 BTC für 1 TH/s. Der Rest (76 GH/s) wurde über Ref-Links generiert. Die werden natürlich wahrscheinlich noch von ganz alleine mehr, denn jeder weitere Kauf der existierenden Refs wird mit 10 Prozent vergütet ... da ist also schon Musik drin.
 
Ich verkaufe jetzt meinen Account, weil ich ein anderes Invest ausprobieren möchte. Man kann bei pbmining die Auszahladresse ändern, der Account wird komplett vom Käufer übernommen (ich gebe mein Passwort raus, dann kann der Käufer das Passwort und die Auszahladresse ändern).
 
Natürlich kann ich keine Garantie dafür übernehmen, dass pbmining.com auch die komplette Jahre durchzieht. Das bleibt dann das eigene Risiko.
 
Hier die Seite mit den Stats bei pbmining – die User ID ist 2332: https://pbmining.com/stats.html
 
Zur Zeit kosten 1076 TH/s bei pbmining 3,228 BTC. Ich würde meine Anteile für 3 BTC verkaufen, also ca. 100 Euro unter Wert.

Ich mine derzeit 0,28 BTC pro Woche (Stand: letzter Sonntag, pbmining.com zahlt immer Sonntags aus).

Angebote könnt ihr mir per PM machen.

Ach ja: Wer zuerst kommt, mahlt mined zuerst!

Lieben Gruß und happy mining
 
 
iFlash

Hello,

here is an update on my experience. To refresh everybody's memory: I started (I think) around End of Feb/Beginning of March, investing 8.9 BTC at pbmining (yes, there is a ref code in that link).

I have to this day been paid 8.2 BTC and will very likely break even next week.

Now I do know this does not proof anything regarding whether this website is legit or not. The only thing that I can say is that I got my money back and I still mine at about 0,3 plus change BTC per week.. So for the coming months I will generate a not too bad share of coins week by week. And it's more than I expected it to be. This can change if diff levels increase at higher rates, of course, but at this time I am more than happy that I risked my fiat.

To be honest: If this is a Ponzi it is the first one I ever came across where I generate a gain. And I am not one of the first ones that used pbmining, I don't think that I am an early adopter of them.

The golden rule stays (as mentioned so many times by others): Don't invest if you can not afford to lose your investment. BTC is still a very very new market and it will take a few more years until it matures.

Happy mining,

iFlash

Maybe you should learn a bit more about BTC before "investing". You will *never* get ,35 BTC. The rate you are mining constantly decreases due to the ever increasing difficulty level. If you do not know what I am talking about I suggest you google "bitcoin difficulty"

Best

iFlash

If the hash grows too fast for mining with pbmining profitable then I won't rebuy because you can not make profit buying more of something that makes a loss.

If Bitcoin goes to $1 then the gamble is clearly over as well, sure.

So - in a nutshell: I would only reinvest if I see that I make a profit within a reasonable time AND the bitcoin price is stable at least ideally with a positive trend.

So far, I am sitting still and wait for a few months.

Happy mining,

iFlash

PS: The mods delete posts with ref-codes? Why? it's not like I try to trick somebody into this. I make it always super obvious that there is a ref code. But if it's a policy round here, well, then I do not post them any longer. (although I see tons of ref codes in posts round here).

And here is a little update again:

I will be closing on this week north of 6 BTC mined with http://pbmining.com?ref=iflash11 (yup, there is a ref code here) which means that I am less than 3 BTC away from profit. You can see my stats on their page (Username iflash).

So far, so good. I am still not convinced that they are a Ponzi but I know that a Ponzi runs as long as people buy in it.

On the other hand: What will all the nay-sayers say when - let's say a year from now - the thing is still up and running with thousands of people making money mining (assuming BTC itself is still around at a price higher than the one now)?

Guess, we can only tell a year from now. Or two. Or five. :-)

Happy mining,


iFlash

Little update from my side:

After 7 weeks of miming at a rate of 1 TH/s I have 4.8 BTC. I invested 8.9 BTC, so still way to go before break even. I will mine around 0.5 BTC this week and the rate goes down pretty fast. I think I will be able to "just" break even. Maybe I bought too early (back then the price was 0,0089 BTC).

Let's wait and see - fingers crossed.

But: All the guys claiming it was a ponzi have not been proven right so far. But - as I always said: It still might be one. A ponzi implodes only if they can not generate enough new clients.

Happy mining,

iFlash

I would assume that is your ID with them. Every payment to them shows your ID (for example: B 1,5000xxxx where xxxx is your ID number). That's probably how they track to whom to credit the hash power to.

The same might be true for Payouts.

Sorry, that's BS. A *very* simple script can do that.

If they are a scam: Why do they sometimes "run out of stock"?

Of course, somebody could claim: To look more legit. But: If they are a ponzi, why would they even care about looking legit? Wouldn't they just sell as much as they possibly can to make as much money as possible? A ponzi "lives" from new customers, so turning them down from time to time would be a pretty stupid idea, huh?

For my own part: I am now at 3.7 BTCs paid out to me. This took 4 weeks at 1 TH/s.

Now with a few weeks of experience I now can calculate a possible outcome:

The highest payout was about 0,86 BTC (per week), the last one was 0,69 BTC (last week). If the degradation continuous at this level in the future, I will break even in fall. Afterwards, there won't be enough coming through week after week to make a significant difference (around 0,07 BTC).

So:

Let's assume for a second that http://pbmining.com?ref=iflash11 (yep, there is a ref-link included) IS legit, then it still might not be a great investment as the ROI is nearly nothing. If all goes well, I could make maybe half a BTC after one year, but then it's only satoshis. That would mean around 5 per cent interest.

For the risk involved this is not enough in my view.

EDIT PS: I forgot to mention that the price per GH/s dropped from 0,0089 to 0,0064 in the same time. So the price dropped about as much as the payouts for the GH/s bought.

Oh my, thanks for sharing.

Of course I know what a ponzi scheme is. But if they pay back my complete invest (which still is a few months away) then I begin to wonder what strange kind of ponzi this is, huh? Maybe I get my money back because I was early enough, but I doubt that. In a ponzi scheme only the inner circle usually makes a profit. Every week I get payouts makes me believe more that the reason is more simple: They simply could be legit.

So far I got back more than 30 per cent of my initial invest. By the end of this week it will be close to 40 per cent. I will NOT add to my position with them as I think that in the end it will not pay much more then the initial invest. After 12 month I might have one additional BTC (probably much less) and the rest of the five years there will be some satoshis mined here and there.

But if I make - let's say - one BTC, this would still be a 12,5 per cent profit which is far better than other things.

Let's see ...

So?

As I have quite a bit of BTC with them, this is one of my favorite interests regarding bitcoins.

Are you suggesting that I am from pbmining myself or what?

Look at my first posts here. I was kinda noob back in November/December, but still clever enough to sell right at 1.000 USD cause I was one of the few that saw what is was: a bubble and nothing else.

Now part of the money I made I decided to put into another risky asset: pbmining. Maybe I am less lucky than last December …

But never suggest again that I belong to a potential fraud, Mister. Understood?

I don't know how their business plan looks like (if they have one):

But consider this: I think we can agree that there *are* legit pool mining companies out there, huh? How would they do it? Or is *every* pool mining a scam in your eyes?

Your calculations assume that they run the same gear over the whole time. That would be a stupid thing to do. It, of course, can only work if they upgrade their mining power.

I mean: Today, 1 TH/s sounds like a pretty decent mining power unit. But in a year from now, I bet you that there is hardware at a fraction of todays prices and with lower power consumption that does the same trick.

Therefor I simply assume that they upgrade their gear i.e.. selling old stuff and buying new stuff on a regular basis. If they are legit and buy at the speed they do, it is fair to assume that the prices they achieve are probably better than the ones a private buyer would get.

Again: *If* they are legit.

They seem to have changed their server config. I had a warning about the encryption but now everything seems to work.

Regarding the "sold out": Probably Mr. Piggles will claim that this is also only a trick to make it look legit. And - it could be. But I doubt it. Because a Ponzi scheme can't afford not to get new customers on board because they need to do the payouts of the existing customers with the BTCs of the old customers.

But let's see how long they are out of stock. The longer they are, the less likely they are a scam.

We just have to wait and see.

Isn't it a bit thrilling, though?

Happy mining,


iFlash

PS: Surely enough I will advertise my ref-code: http://pbmining.com?ref=iflash11