PBmining - legit?

[jonsi]

They seems to be more legit then Neo&Bee until now, but you never know when thei may decide to pull the plug.
An advice that is so offten preached in the Bitcoin world bo so little practiced: Never invest more than you can afford to loose!

yeah agree, basic advice in investment world
but it's better to find out how that investment works before invest there so we can reduce the risk
what is Neo&Bee anyway?

Basically one of the biggest scam in bitcoin history. A company from Cyprus that scamed investors for milions of euros. Looked it up on the forum and in the media in general.

[iflash]

Hello,

here is an update on my experience. To refresh everybody's memory: I started (I think) around End of Feb/Beginning of March, investing 8.9 BTC at pbmining (yes, there is a ref code in that link).

I have to this day been paid 8.2 BTC and will very likely break even next week.

Now I do know this does not proof anything regarding whether this website is legit or not. The only thing that I can say is that I got my money back and I still mine at about 0,3 plus change BTC per week.. So for the coming months I will generate a not too bad share of coins week by week. And it's more than I expected it to be. This can change if diff levels increase at higher rates, of course, but at this time I am more than happy that I risked my fiat.

To be honest: If this is a Ponzi it is the first one I ever came across where I generate a gain. And I am not one of the first ones that used pbmining, I don't think that I am an early adopter of them.

The golden rule stays (as mentioned so many times by others): Don't invest if you can not afford to lose your investment. BTC is still a very very new market and it will take a few more years until it matures.

Happy mining,

iFlash

[fractal02]

Hello,

here is an update on my experience. To refresh everybody's memory: I started (I think) around End of Feb/Beginning of March, investing 8.9 BTC at pbmining (yes, there is a ref code in that link).

I have to this day been paid 8.2 BTC and will very likely break even next week.

Now I do know this does not proof anything regarding whether this website is legit or not. The only thing that I can say is that I got my money back and I still mine at about 0,3 plus change BTC per week.. So for the coming months I will generate a not too bad share of coins week by week. And it's more than I expected it to be. This can change if diff levels increase at higher rates, of course, but at this time I am more than happy that I risked my fiat.

To be honest: If this is a Ponzi it is the first one I ever came across where I generate a gain. And I am not one of the first ones that used pbmining, I don't think that I am an early adopter of them.

The golden rule stays (as mentioned so many times by others): Don't invest if you can not afford to lose your investment. BTC is still a very very new market and it will take a few more years until it matures.

Happy mining,

iFlash

74,1 GH/s Piggy bonus ^^
Not bad at all...

[kodiak1120]

I don't understand why anyone would use PBming.  Am I missing something?  Right now, they are offering mining at 0.0036 BTC/ghs.  So 1 Th/s would cost you 3.6 BTC.  If you estimate it out using:

http://www.vnbitcoin.org/detailcalculation.php?name=Bitcoin_Mining_Rig&startdate=2014-06-24&costperunit=2160&wattperhour=0&gigahazarate=1000&daytoincrease=12&testlopfirst=5&diffincrement=13.25&bitcoinperdollar=588.38&electriccostinput=0.00&begindifflevel=13462580115

You will see that it will take you more than one year to get to 3.5 BTC.  So after a year, you've still not broken even and although the contract is for five years, the last four years will be basically worthless due to the difficulty going up so high. 

Unlike mining with fiat currency, where the price may go up and justify spending more than you will make back at today's price, with this you're paying in BTC so all you need to do is figure out how long it will take you to get your initial investment in BTC back. 

I just don't under stand why anyone would sign up for this.

[tempestb]

They modify the rate all the time so that it is more appealing.  You're looking at it now with a known difficulty jump coming up around 30% plus a declining coin value, so the metrics won't work in your favor right now.  But a week or so ago when people were looking at smaller adjustments to difficulty and a coin above 600, that rate probably looked good.

[kodiak1120]

The price they charge may change and it may have been more appealing in the past, but the price of bitcoin is irrelevant since you are paying and being paid in bitcoins.  All you need to know is how much it's costing you in BTC and how long it will take to get those BTCs back. 

Under the present cost charged by PBming, it would take you +1 year to earn your BTC back.

[tempestb]

Yeah, but the market can't keep growing by 13.7% forever.  You have some big jump right now because BFL, KNC, Black Arrow, are all shipping at the same exact time plus it's very likely Bitmain is burn in testing their S3's.  So we get this huge difficulty jump, and the next one will be big to take some residual from that (Though not as big as this next one.)  After that though, I think we'll see a pretty slow incline.  Partially because many miners are being switched off as the new ones get added.  It keeps rising, but 10% every week?  Not likely.  Maybe for six months at best, but it can't keep compounding.  That would defy the laws of nature.

[leex1528]

The price they charge may change and it may have been more appealing in the past, but the price of bitcoin is irrelevant since you are paying and being paid in bitcoins.  All you need to know is how much it's costing you in BTC and how long it will take to get those BTCs back. 

Under the present cost charged by PBming, it would take you +1 year to earn your BTC back.

They quote at the current rate it should be roughly 6 months before you see your investment back, and after that will be all profit.  I haven't done the math to confirm this but it seems fairly accurate...

[trand]

still confuse PbMining legit or not, so many speculation here but since i read until now they still paying, if only they were willing to explain where they are able to generate aka coin we might be easier but it seems they accidentally let all this controversy growing

[R4v37]

still confuse PbMining legit or not, so many speculation here but since i read until now they still paying, if only they were willing to explain where they are able to generate aka coin we might be easier but it seems they accidentally let all this controversy growing

that's why we call this gambling
try it now, and profit later (6months?  )

[Group Bitcoin]

Some lovely basic math, cheapest area in the US for electricity widely agreed is Washington at around $0.10 per Kwh.

Currently ASIC hardware efficiency is around 1w per GH/s, things like Terraminers much worse anyway so anyway 1w per GH/s... 1000GH/s = 1TH/s at PB's current price around $2000 ($2 per GH/s)...

Cost to run the TH/s for 5 years in electricity alone in the one of the cheapest regions in the world... with zero magical free hardware, free cooling, free giant mega mine, free insurance, free staff just electricity is $0.10per Kwh x 24 for the day x 365 for the year x 5Years because that's what they say.

This is... and please work it out... $4380

Regardless of payouts. Irrefutable evidence they are not doing what the claimmmmmm. Boom

This is not opinion or speculation, oh I think they're dodgey blah blah blah... It's pure mathematical fact.

Current investors better get busy on the Affiliate program to keep getting payouts.

[leex1528]

Some lovely basic math, cheapest area in the US for electricity widely agreed is Washington at around $0.10 per Kwh.

Currently ASIC hardware efficiency is around 1w per GH/s, things like Terraminers much worse anyway so anyway 1w per GH/s... 1000GH/s = 1TH/s at PB's current price around $2000 ($2 per GH/s)...

Cost to run the TH/s for 5 years in electricity alone in the one of the cheapest regions in the world... with zero magical free hardware, free cooling, free giant mega mine, free insurance, free staff just electricity is $0.10per Kwh x 24 for the day x 365 for the year x 5Years because that's what they say.

This is... and please work it out... $4380

Regardless of payouts. Irrefutable evidence they are not doing what the claimmmmmm. Boom

This is not opinion or speculation, oh I think they're dodgey blah blah blah... It's pure mathematical fact.

Current investors better get busy on the Affiliate program to keep getting payouts.

Slightly confused by this:

So are you saying it costs $4,380 per hour for them to mine that much?  $4,380 for 5 years worth of mining?  What are you saying it costs?

If you are saying it costs $4,380 per 5 years, which I highly think you are  You realize you are making a terrible claim then correct?

$4,380 / 5 = $876 per year, or $73 dollars per month.

Now, I am just going to grab 1 miner that purchased a contract through them.

Customer 13022 purchased 7500GH/s from there probably about 3 weeks ago, maybe 2, who knows.  That person spent probably 30BTC to pay for that, which with today's cost is roughly $17,100 dollars.  Keep in mind this is just 1 customer. 
Now roughly again, just roughly saying 7.5 TH/s costs probably around 27BTC.  Which leave them only in 3 BTC profit.  Which is roughly $1,710 dollars.  Well that is good they nearly covered there whole electric bill with 1 customer for 5 years.  Imagine if they had 2 customers, oh wait they do, so that covers that cost of electricity.  Now lets say they spend roughly $100,000 on staff/website costs, cooling, mining per year(Which I am wayyyyyyyyy over shooting)  That means they will need about 10 customers per month to maintain that in the example I used:  They have roughly 200-300 people who have purchased over  1000 GHs.  These people spent anywhere between 3.6BTC and 36BTC.  Lets just average it out and say they 15 BTC per person and take the minimum of the people(200)  15*200 = 3000BTC from these people(which is an understatement)  They probably make anywhere between 1BTC and 4 BTC from all of these people.  So lets say they make an average of 2BTC per person.  200*2 = 400BTC *570(USD) = $228,000 they made from just this people this year.  This is covering electric cost and the staffing cost by quite a bit.

So don't use math as an example if you aren't good at it, bottom line.

[Group Bitcoin]

Some lovely basic math, cheapest area in the US for electricity widely agreed is Washington at around $0.10 per Kwh.

Currently ASIC hardware efficiency is around 1w per GH/s, things like Terraminers much worse anyway so anyway 1w per GH/s... 1000GH/s = 1TH/s at PB's current price around $2000 ($2 per GH/s)...

Cost to run the TH/s for 5 years in electricity alone in the one of the cheapest regions in the world... with zero magical free hardware, free cooling, free giant mega mine, free insurance, free staff just electricity is $0.10per Kwh x 24 for the day x 365 for the year x 5Years because that's what they say.

This is... and please work it out... $4380

Regardless of payouts. Irrefutable evidence they are not doing what the claimmmmmm. Boom

This is not opinion or speculation, oh I think they're dodgey blah blah blah... It's pure mathematical fact.

Current investors better get busy on the Affiliate program to keep getting payouts.

Slightly confused by this:

So are you saying it costs $4,380 per hour for them to mine that much?  $4,380 for 5 years worth of mining?  What are you saying it costs?

If you are saying it costs $4,380 per 5 years, which I highly think you are  You realize you are making a terrible claim then correct?

$4,380 / 5 = $876 per year, or $73 dollars per month.

Now, I am just going to grab 1 miner that purchased a contract through them.

Customer 13022 purchased 7500GH/s from there probably about 3 weeks ago, maybe 2, who knows.  That person spent probably 30BTC to pay for that, which with today's cost is roughly $17,100 dollars.  Keep in mind this is just 1 customer.  
Now roughly again, just roughly saying 7.5 TH/s costs probably around 27BTC.  Which leave them only in 3 BTC profit.  Which is roughly $1,710 dollars.  Well that is good they nearly covered there whole electric bill with 1 customer for 5 years.  Imagine if they had 2 customers, oh wait they do, so that covers that cost of electricity.  Now lets say they spend roughly $100,000 on staff/website costs, cooling, mining per year(Which I am wayyyyyyyyy over shooting)  That means they will need about 10 customers per month to maintain that in the example I used:  They have roughly 200-300 people who have purchased over  1000 GHs.  These people spent anywhere between 3.6BTC and 36BTC.  Lets just average it out and say they 15 BTC per person and take the minimum of the people(200)  15*200 = 3000BTC from these people(which is an understatement)  They probably make anywhere between 1BTC and 4 BTC from all of these people.  So lets say they make an average of 2BTC per person.  200*2 = 400BTC *570(USD) = $228,000 they made from just this people this year.  This is covering electric cost and the staffing cost by quite a bit.

So don't use math as an example if you aren't good at it, bottom line.

What an embarrassing post I've done the 'quote' thing so everyone can see it and you can't delete it to hide it, re-read mine.

[leex1528]

That is why I said I was slightly confused by this, mainly because of your broken grammar and no sentence structure.  I am not going to delete my comment, I am not afraid to be wrong if I am

Okay, so you are saying 1 TH/s costs $4,380 for 5 years??? Then yes, it would be absolutely impossible to make money for them, and they would lose money.

I probably shouldn't have went off on a tangent but I really thought you meant they were paying $4,380 for 5 years with all their gear.

My apologies.

[Group Bitcoin]

That is why I said I was slightly confused by this, mainly because of your broken grammar and no sentence structure.  I am not going to delete my comment, I am not afraid to be wrong if I am

Okay, so you are saying 1 TH/s costs $4,380 for 5 years??? Then yes, it would be absolutely impossible to make money for them, and they would lose money.

I probably shouldn't have went off on a tangent but I really thought you meant they were paying $4,380 for 5 years with all their gear.

My apologies.

Yes $4380 in electricity alone. To run 1TH/s for 5 years, in one of the cheapest areas in the world.

 

[tempestb]

Yeah, but that isn't happening is it?  They'll buy a bunch of machines that run at 5th right now.  Then when new machines come out that run at 500th at .01gh per watt, they'll switch to those.  And the power cost will drop.

PBMining might be getting some deal on hardware, merge mining and pool mining to get extra money, and reselling used hardware for cash.  It's likely not all factored into the retail cost of a miner that everyone else pays. 

I still think it's a Ponzi, because the margins are way too narrow (Also I think they are in Canada, not the U.S.) Saskatchewan or something. 

[tprogex]

Yeah, but that isn't happening is it?  They'll buy a bunch of machines that run at 5th right now.  Then when new machines come out that run at 500th at .01gh per watt, they'll switch to those.  And the power cost will drop.

PBMining might be getting some deal on hardware, merge mining and pool mining to get extra money, and reselling used hardware for cash.  It's likely not all factored into the retail cost of a miner that everyone else pays. 

I still think it's a Ponzi, because the margins are way too narrow (Also I think they are in Canada, not the U.S.) Saskatchewan or something. 

But they ask what they are in Canada .

[tempestb]

Well, according to their website SaskPower which I guess is the power company in Saskatechewan is 11cents per kwh.  Which I'm assuming that is in Canadian money, so it's probably close to 10 cents in USD.  If they are far enough North they can also save a bundle on cooling costs. 

[hexagram]

Hello,

here is an update on my experience. To refresh everybody's memory: I started (I think) around End of Feb/Beginning of March, investing 8.9 BTC at pbmining (yes, there is a ref code in that link).

I have to this day been paid 8.2 BTC and will very likely break even next week.

Now I do know this does not proof anything regarding whether this website is legit or not. The only thing that I can say is that I got my money back and I still mine at about 0,3 plus change BTC per week.. So for the coming months I will generate a not too bad share of coins week by week. And it's more than I expected it to be. This can change if diff levels increase at higher rates, of course, but at this time I am more than happy that I risked my fiat.

To be honest: If this is a Ponzi it is the first one I ever came across where I generate a gain. And I am not one of the first ones that used pbmining, I don't think that I am an early adopter of them.

The golden rule stays (as mentioned so many times by others): Don't invest if you can not afford to lose your investment. BTC is still a very very new market and it will take a few more years until it matures.

Happy mining,

iFlash

That's good to know, so in total you break even in about 4 months.  I jumped in rather late (about two weeks ago) but according to this calculator (http://pratscher.org/pbmining/) I could still break even in about 5 months (mid November). Of course predictions are predictions, nobody can guesstimate rising difficulty and/or future BTC price, so in the end yes I agree that this is quite a gamble, and yes we should all not invest money we could not afford to lose. It does however, give a good thrill and were it just a portion of your investment then it would be a pleasant surprise when they actually come through.

Godspeed all! :-)

[nrd525]

I skimmed the thread and looked at the website. I'm suspicious as their price is very low and there is no evidence that they are actually mining.   Possibly a very professional ponzi.

Ponzis are realizing they need to be pretty smart to fool bitcoiners after the big Pirate fiasco.  See Bitcoin Trader (sponsoring bitcoin conferences to build its reputation - and very nice website).