Everybody wants to repeal the law of supply and demand... Get over it.  It can't be done.  The manufacturer has a limited production capacity. There are enough people willing to pay the price they ask to well out their capacity.  If that changes and people won't pay the price, they will lower their price.  If people offer more money and they can't increase their supply, price will go up to reduce demand to the amount they can manufacture.  It's as simple as that.  It's not greed, it's giving people what they want for a price they are willing to pay.  Yes, it makes no sense to buy the product if you can't make money off of it.  But there is apparently no shortage of people that don't do the math, or think the math doesn't apply to them for some reason to buy all of the capacity they have at a price that will not make the customer money.  Don't get mad at the manufacturer for selling their product into the market for what people are willing to pay.  Get mad at the customers that are willing to pay more than they should driving the price up.  Supply and demand works.  It always has, and always will.  Capitalism works because everyone works in their own self interest.  The problems always come in when governments come in and try to "fix" things.  They inevitably jump in and make things worse.  a situation like this where too many people are willing to pay too much never lasts.  Capitalism and supply and demand are self correcting.  When governments come in and "price fix" everyone ends up paying more in the long run.  As the manufacturers continue to make more of their product they get better at it and reduce their costs, and demand will fall off and prices will come down.  When there is price fixing the price stays high, or if it is set artificially low a black market develops where connected people buy up all the supply and re-sell at higher prices anyway.  It's human nature.  It can't be changed.  Capitalism works because it takes advantage of human nature and competition to get the most product to the most people at the lowest possible price.  Freedom works.  every time it's tried.  But people always complain so politicians get in the mix and muck it up for everyone.  That's why socialism has failed everywhere it has been tried.  And why a little start up country of peasants created the most powerful country in the world in less than 100 years.  Unfortunately, we are now losing it.  While communist China is learning capitalism from the huge success of Hong Kong.  By the way, every time the US has lowered taxes revenue to the US Treasury has increased.  The economy grows and they get a smaller piece of a much bigger pie.  Money is only taxed when it changes hands.  When taxes are too high people hoard their money and it doesn't get taxed.  Raising taxes doesn't punish the rich either, it just makes it much harder for anyone else to accumulate any wealth, keeping the rich on top and taking the opportunity from everyone else to become rich.

You decry the greed of the company, but yet you want to buy their product from them at a lower price  than others are willing to pay for it.  Greed is a 2 way street.

Sorry, I just get so sick of the BS taught in schools about the wonders of socialism and how everyone can be equal in a utopian paradise.  The only result is everyone is equally miserable and poor, while the ruling class politicians and their cronies have all the money and power over individuals lives.  Take a look at Cuba and Venezuela, North Korea for examples.  The Soviet Union also failed.  It never works, but for some reason people never learn and keep trying.

Freedom and non-interference by government is a big part of what bitcoin is all about.  Learn to understand the rest of it in supply and demand, that's what make the price of bitcoin keep going up too.

/end rant

Korxax



1NtV1q29FtRAYAkMJHMYbASZLiLur2FQe

So it sounds like day trading stocks.  You are pretty much glued to your computer screen waiting for buy/sell opportunities?  But with the added benefit that you are mining during the time you are holding.  Too bad you can't do it in your IRA. lol.


Korxax


1NtV1q29FtRAYAkMJHMYbASZLiLur2FQe

Yeah, they were driving me nuts for a bit.  With that and having to learn how to use cgminer at the same time I had some learning to do.  I was able to get some of them to work OK on the front USB port on my PC, and another on a cable off of a motherboard header.  The ones I had trouble with were the USB ports built into the motherboard I/O panel.  I think that was more of a heat issue though.  I did have a fan outside my case blowing on them, but the motherboard is pretty warm with 2 video cards also mining in it.  The I/O panel itself is pretty warm to the touch, so adding an ant or 3 into that area did drive up the heat levels since they are all connected by metal.  I ran a couple of them on 3 foot USB3 extension cables and they seemed to work OK that way, but not with the direct contact with the motherboard.  I didn't run them for long that way though since I decided to steal some powered hubs from other PCs at that point.  The hubs I was using were cheap, and kinda old.  I got them right after I got my first USB 3 capable pc. I don't think they push much amperage.  I got my new hub yesterday evening, and it doesn't seem to have a problem running them all, though the ports are a little closer together than I'd like.  I ordered 2 more ants so we'll see if it can handle 8.  I may put them on extension cables and mount them to old cpu heatsinks.  I might even get brave and see if I can solder on a resistor and overclock them more.   

I've been thinking about trying bfgminer, I still get a lot of fluctuation in my speeds, and everything drops to 0s for longer than I'd like when I get a new work request from the pool.  But now that it's all working I'm not sure I want to go through all that again, I have other stuff I need to do.  lol  I'm sure it would be easier the second time though.  I'll start looking into it. I concentrated all my research on cgminer since that's what people were talking about early in the thread.  Would you happen to have a link to a good working version of BFGminer I wouldn't have to compile? Or some good instructions on how to compile specific versions of it?  I wouldn't mind learning how to do it, but most of what I've found so far about it is pretty cryptic.  As I said, I'm not a programmer.  I haven't written any of this kind of stuff since DOS autoexec.bats and config.sys. Maybe when I get the 2 new ones I'll experiment with them on another PC.   I'm really hoping Bitminter will add support for them soon.  If you have any computer challenged friends that want to mine, send them to Bitminter.  Bitminter's client is stupid easy and very fast.  But Ant support is still on the to do list.

As to causing headaches... I get Cluster Headaches... (imagine a day long migraine packed into 30-120 minutes and repeat up to 10 times a day.)  So any headache caused by hardware problems I can deal with...  It's the clusters that scare me.  In fact I was just learning about bitcoin and starting to set up to mine 3 years ago when the headaches came back on me (they go into remission from time to time, I've had them since I was 8 years old) and crushed that idea (and every other thought) out of my head.  They've finally slowed down so I'm trying to get back into it, unfortunately I lost 3+ years when I could have made a real profit.     Oh well... that's life.  Nothing to do about it now but mine.  I can't work a real job so I have to do something or I'll go nuts.

Thanks for the info.  I'll look into BFGminer.  Have had a few more issues while typing this.  I now know it isn't heat or power so mining software and drivers are next on the list.  But it may have to wait until Monday.  Too many other things to do today, and football playoffs tomorrow.  I'm a long time Broncos fan living 100 miles north of Seattle.  Seahawks would be my 2nd favorite team so it should be an interesting day tomorrow!

Korxax



1NtV1q29FtRAYAkMJHMYbASZLiLur2FQe

Hey everyone, I just finished reading the whole thread.  I got my ants working in cgminer just fine and wanted to give a few tips to newbies like me.  I have 6 of them.  I've never compiled anything. I'm not a programmer.  I have always liked to tinker with hardware though.  I just downloaded the version of cgminer linked early in the thread and followed instructions.

The number 1 issue I had was power!  My first attempt to get them running I just plugged them into the USB ports on the back of my motherboard, that worked for a little bit at low speeds, but then they stopped.

I then stole a powered usb3 hub from my wife's PC.  I couldn't get any ant to recognize in a usb3 port, so I just plugged the hub into a USB2 port.  I was able to fit 4 in it (ports are crowded), and it seemed to work OK for a while.  Then found an extension and got a 5th in it...  Bad idea.  Started having major problems.  so I stole a little 4 port powered USB3 hub off of my PC and put 2 in it and 4 in the other... It worked for a short period of time but I kept getting  a zombie and was still having speed issues.   Ultimately I discovered that the little 4 port I pulled off of my machine can only handle 1 ant without causing problems over time.  The one I pulled off of my wife's is a 7 port hub but can only handle 4 ants, and is happier with 3.  I know I have another hub like my wife's around here somewhere, but I can't find it, so I ordered an Anker 9 port +1 charging port hub.  It should be here today.  I did find 1 USB2 port on my PC that seems to be able to handle an ant, so I have the 6th there.  I have it plugged into one of the motherboard headers down on the bottom edge of the motherboard with a heavy duty 2 port cable attached.  All seems to be working OK now.  Here are a few other tips:

• Don't plug your ant directly into a motherboard USB port, the built in kind on your I/O panel.  While it may support enough power, the heat of the ant and the motherboard will feed off of each other in that location.  Use an extension cable if you must do this to isolate the ant's heat from the motherboard's heat.  I could get them to work for a while there, but even with a fan on them they eventually zombied.  I wouldn't do it long term anyway, but as a stop gap until you can get a good powered hub it might be Ok.
  
• Most motherboard ports won't supply enough power.  I have a very high end ASUS Crosshair motherboard and an 850 Watt power supply and even it didn't supply enough to all ports.
  
• Most cheap USB hubs don't supply enough power for more than a few ants. Even my 4 port powered USB3 hub would only let 1 ant work properly.
  
• if you have several ants and 1 goes zombie on you, you can figure out which one is the zombie by touching the heatsink.  After it's gone zombie for a bit it will be much cooler than the ones that are working.  (helps if there is a fan blowing on them)
  
• If it isn't working... unplug it and plug it back in.  That solves most issues... at least for the short term.
  
• Don't have all of them plugged in when you start cgminer.  I usally start up with 1 plugged in, and my hub with 4 turned off/unplugged.  Then plug in the hub after cgminer is going with 1 working.  Cgminer then recognizes all 4 that are in that hub.
  
• Don't give up, keep reading.  lol, you'll figure it out eventually, if not ask.  There are plenty of great guys here willing to help.
  

The cgminer start script that worked for me is:
cgminer.exe --bmsc-options 115200:20 -o stratum+tcp://mint.bitminter.com:3333 -u korxax_ant -p 123 --bmsc-freq 0981

The "korxax_ant"  is:  account_worker    

So be sure to change that and the pool address unless you want to mine for me.  Not that I'd mind!  Mine for me all you want!   Donations are always welcome too.

Also wanted to thank all those in the forums helping people.

I hope this helps some people.

Korxax

1NtV1q29FtRAYAkMJHMYbASZLiLur2FQe

If that trend continues however it does add one other factor to consider as to whether it will be worth it to buy now.  Yes prices are high, but look at ebay and look at the prices of the last generation technology miners, they are also very high.  Crazy, impossible to make your money back high.  So consider, will your 3 TH miner still command that kind of price at end of its life?  If it does, you can buy it, make some money with it, then sell it to fund your next gen miner tech when it becomes available.  I'm guessing the time when you could make large sums of money mining are over, but if you lower your expectations and play the game right, you could still be able to make a reasonable return on investment.  No guarantees of course, but it seems for right now there are plenty of people out there willing to pay ridiculous prices for last gen tech.  I'm still bullish on the price of bitcoin increasing too though, so I'd pay with cash instead of bitcoin if you can and keep the bitcoin.  I haven't run all the math out though, and there are so many variables it's probably impossible anyway, you still might be better off just buying bitcoin.

Just one other variable to consider.


Korxax


1NtV1q29FtRAYAkMJHMYbASZLiLur2FQe

Yeah, I scrounged a few cheap powered hubs up and things seem to be better with them plugged into those.  I still get some zombies eventually, but they are definitely running much better.  I have a good high power hub ordered so I'm hoping that will fix the last of my issues.  I seem to be OK with 2 plugged into the cheap hubs, but if I plug in the third performance starts to drop, and the 3rd one plugged in doesn't ramp up to full speed for a while.  for a while they all run fine, then slowly the speed drops an eventually I get a zombie.  If I don't see it right away I start getting more zombies.  I tried plugging one into my main computer, the other is just mining, but I get a dll missing error with cgminer.  I really need to do a full windows re-install on my main computer, but I keep putting it off because I use it too much and don't want to mess with the downtime.  Been really busy lately.  I might stick one or 2 on my wife's PC instead.  But my hub should be here tomorrow, so I hope that fixes the issue.


Korxax


1NtV1q29FtRAYAkMJHMYbASZLiLur2FQe

I'm using cgminer for the ants. Doc's made some noises about adding support for the bitminter client, but he's pretty busy it sounds like.

Korxax



1NtV1q29FtRAYAkMJHMYbASZLiLur2FQe

yup, looks like people haven't been feeding their miners enough fiber again.  We have another blockage...  And just when I get my antminers working...mostly... and sextuple my hashing power...


Korxax


1NtV1q29FtRAYAkMJHMYbASZLiLur2FQe

I just got my 6 ants working... mostly...  What a pain!  Makes you really appreciate the bitminter client!  You are the man Doc!  Since bitminter is the only client I ever got to work (I'm new to this) it took me a while to get things going. 

Here are a few things I learned for any other newbies out there:

Make sure you have the right version of cgminer, not just any version will work I think this is the one I finally got that worked:

https://github.com/AntMiner/AntGen1/tree/master/cgminer

Chopstick's start command was the last piece I needed to get everything to finally work:

cgminer.exe --bmsc-options 115200:20 -o stratum+tcp://mint.bitminter.com:3333 -u YOURuserNAME_YOURminerNAME -p 123 --bmsc-freq 0981

Thanks Chopstick!

So now my 6 sticks are working!  For a while at least...    Everything works great for a while... then they start to slow down... eventually they stop.   I can get them back up an running again by simply unplugging and re-plugging them in one at a time.  but obviously that's not a good solution.  I really don't want to wake up every hour or so all night to get them working again.  Anyone have any ideas?  could it be that they aren't getting enough power?  My good powered USB hub isn't here yet so I have them just plugged into different usb connectors on my motherboard.  I haven't been able to get them to recognize in a USB 3 slot, but I have lots of USB 2s so I have them spread around so they aren't packed together and have fans on them.

Can't wait until you get these integrated in the bitminter client Doc!   

Korxax


1NtV1q29FtRAYAkMJHMYbASZLiLur2FQe

Go for the prunes! 

By the way Philipma, My ants still haven't arrived, it's a long walk from Detroit to me for an ant I guess.  Maybe tomorrow.  Can't wait to get my hands on them.  I sure hope they make it so I don't have to wait until Monday.

   Cheers!  Finally a block movement!  everyone give you miners some fiber so we don't have another ... blockage... like that one.



Korxax



1NtV1q29FtRAYAkMJHMYbASZLiLur2FQe

Hi Everybody,

My wife and I had an idea we want to run by you.  My wife makes jewelry, beads etc. and sells them on her Etsy shop here:

http://www.etsy.com/shop/AndreasArtJewelry?ref=search_shop_redirect   (she will take bitcoin if anyone is interested, just PM me with what you'd like and we'll figure it out)

I had an idea for something new she could make and wondered if any of you might be interested in buying custom items with your own QR codes on them?  We could make pendants, earrings, key chains, coasters and virtually anything else that can be molded out of polymer clay with a flat area for a QR code on it.  We were thinking of making earrings and pendants that look like the bitcoins people have made out of metal anyway, but I got the idea of putting the QR code on the back, but we could actually put it on almost anything if anyone is interested.  You could even have any amount encoded in the QR code if you want, or get several with different amounts.  We'd just need you to send us a clean image of the QR code you want put on the item and what you want it on to do it.  It would take a week or two to make, there are quite a few steps involved in finishing it with a nice clear coating so it lasts.

Please let me know what you think, we're hopefully going to have time to make a prototype or two this weekend to show, it won't be fully finished but should get you an idea.

We'd also love to hear of any other things you might like to have a QR embedded in,

Thanks for the input,

Korxax


1NtV1q29FtRAYAkMJHMYbASZLiLur2FQe

Thanks man, really appreciate you taking the time to put that info up for me.  I've been reading the threads you linked and am starting to get a picture of what's going on, but really nice to see it in one place rather than grabbing pieces from several different posts.  I haven't done much config file writing since DOS, and never got into Linux, so I'm really out of practice.  Windows made me lazy.  The ants will be my only miners other than my video cards on the machine, so from what I've read so far it sounds like that will make things easier.  They might get here tomorrow, then the fun begins. 

Thanks again,

Korxax



1NtV1q29FtRAYAkMJHMYbASZLiLur2FQe

Nice.. I only bought 6 antminers     But it should be a big step up from my 5970 and now 2x 6970s (traded my brother for one) that I have now.  I have a couple 600Ghps cards on the way, but they won't be here until probably March, assuming Butterfly Labs doesn't choke on delivery again.  I have read that some of those cards have actually shipped now, so I guess there is a possibility that I might get them in February since I have a March/February delivery window.

Did you overclock your ants?  If you did, do you happen to have a link to what I need to do to do that?  I have a nice cold basement and can aim an nice air filter fan right on to them.  Not really concerned about power costs at this point.  I run the air filter anyway, and the computer will be running anyway... so the difference in power probably won't be that big of a deal.  I have some of the cheapest power in the country too.

Thanks for the links too!  Looks like I have some reading to do.  I'm a bit out of practice on my tweaking.  Do you prefer cgminer or bfgminer?  Or does it matter?  I tried GUIminer before I found Bitminter, but I didn't get it to work correctly.  Bitminter is just stupid easy to get working, so I love it.  but I don't mind getting my hands dirty if I need to.   


Thanks again!


Korxax


1NtV1q29FtRAYAkMJHMYbASZLiLur2FQe

I found the info because it looked too good to be true and did a search.    Always a good idea for everybody!

I don't work due to the Cluster headaches I get, (kinda like a day long migraine packed into 30-120 minutes, then repeat up to 10 times a day. clusterheadaches.com if you are curious)  They have slowed down recently so I'm doing better, but you're right.  I'm pretty sure I couldn't run a group like that, even though I don't have a job.  I could help, but not run it by myself, I couldn't be reliable enough. But I really do need something productive to do, going stir crazy.  I have a hard time even leaving the house because I'm so light sensitive. And I never know when they will ramp back up and wipe me out again.  

I actually first got interested in bitcoin 3 years ago and had a 5970 at the time, but before I figured out how to get started my headaches ramped up and made it impossible to even think, so I didn't actually get started until very recently.    I could have been bitcoin rich too.  Oh, well, that's life.  Nothing I can do about it now but get started.  Maybe bitcoin will go over $10k each and at least make me less poor.  lol.  I don't have enough yet for even that to matter though, so I gotta get cracking.     I ordered a few antminers I found for a not too terrible price, hopefully I can squeeze some cons out of them and then sell them on ebay when I get something better.  Would really love to have a few Thps though.  I made the possible mistake of ordering a butterfly labs 600 Ghps miner, sure hope they don't ship a year late this time...  didn't know about  that at the time.  If you see any deals I'd love to hear about them.  I might be able to scrape up some cash.

That really sucks about the $54k.  Is that from selling bitcoins? or selling mining equipment?  Good luck in court!  I hear Paypal can be real assholes and think your money is theirs.

Thanks again for saving me from a mistake I can't afford!


Korxax



1NtV1q29FtRAYAkMJHMYbASZLiLur2FQe

Hi all,

I just found a decent price (well, not as bad as eBay at least) on some USB antminers and ordered a few.  Do I need to do anything special to use them when I get them or will they be detected by the bitminter client?

Oh and another question O wise ones....  I just traded some stuff with my Brother for another 6970.  I put it in my main machine in crossfire, but Damn it gets hot and loud!  Is it possible to put it in another machine with a 5970 not in crossfire in the third PCI-e slot so it has some breathing room.  I'm not really using that machine for much of anything but mining at the moment.  (yes, I know it isn't profitable, but I'm having fun messing with it.)    then I could stick it in my nice cold basement where I wouldn't have to listen to it. 


 Edited because I realized shortly after posting this how stupid that question was...

Korxax



1NtV1q29FtRAYAkMJHMYbASZLiLur2FQe

We were thinking just store where you could just by normal stuff for bitcoin would be cool, but I like the ideas.  She could easily make a nice bitcoin pendant and matching ear rings, or  coasters...  There are all kinds of possibilities!  We're open to ideas!  Anything you'd like to see, post it here and we'll get on it!  Could have some prototypes maybe next week.  Depending on the effect you are trying to create there can be a lot of steps from start to finish.  Then the finishing process can take a while if you do it right too.  Meanwhile, if you need a gift for girlfriend or something (Valentines Day is coming) take a look.  She even has some Silver and gold plated Necklaces starting at around $3.50, so you don't even have to like her that much!    

Keep the ideas coming!

Korxax


1NtV1q29FtRAYAkMJHMYbASZLiLur2FQe

Hi Everybody,

My wife has an Etsy store and would like to accept bitcoin for her stuff...  But we don't see a way to do it through Etsy.  So until we figure out a way to do that just PM me with an item from her store and we'll get you a bitcoin price delivered.  I wish we had an easier way to do this, but that's the only way I see to do it at this point.  We'll build a regular site to do it when we can, but it could take a while, she has hundreds more handmade things that aren't even on Etsy all the time (the listing fees can get nuts) so she needs her own site anyway.

She sells really beautiful hand made polymer clay stuff, pictures really don't do them justice.  All of the polymer clay stuff is 1 of a kind originals hand made by her.  She also has gold and silver plated chains, individual beads and supplies for people that like to make their own jewelry.  She has great pricing, her chains are the lowest on Etsy as far as we know and she tries to keep it that way.

The store is here:
http://www.etsy.com/shop/AndreasArtJewelry?ref=search_shop_redirect

Please include:

• Link(s) to the item you want
• Quantity you want
• if it's a chain please tell me what size you want
• Shipping address, we will ship internationally, but be aware the shipping charges are higher
• your email address so we can communicate easier (5 minute wait times to respond to personal messages sucks) and we can send confirmations and tracking numbers

If I come up with anything else we need I'll edit this post.  If there is something you'd like to buy that you don't see, let me know and we'll see what we can do.  If you want something custom made with specific colors she can do that too, with some lead time.  She also has the ability to put a color photo onto the clay so if you'd like that it's possible.  All she'd need is the image file you want transferred.  She does really good work, she's a perfectionist.

Almost anything in the store would be a great gift for a girlfriend, wife, mother, sister etc.

Take a look at the site!

Korxax



1NtV1q29FtRAYAkMJHMYbASZLiLur2FQe

Yeah, so I'm a newb.  It was more a matter of being able to get them quickly.  All the exchanges take forever and require a ton of identity stuff.  My in-laws had their Identity stolen so I hate giving all that out. I'm signed up with LocalBitcoins now, but the only guy nearby wanted over $1200 ea. when bitcoin was at about $720.  Even LocalBitcoins would only escrow .08 bitcoins since I'm new.  I now understand the risk the seller is taking more than I did at the time, I knew I wouldn't rip him/her off, but as you say, there is no way he could know that.  I did get offers from several people that would accept paypal by the way, so it isn't impossible to get someone to do it.  Ultimately I didn't take them up on it.  At this pint it no longer matters, I was able to get the miner I wanted buy wiring the cash to the manufacturer, somehow I missed that option when I looked the first time.  I thought they would only accept bitcoin.

I really hate that there  are so many crooks out there that make an honest exchange so difficult, but what can you do?  I assumed that PayPal would protect the seller from an unjust chargeback if they could prove that they sent what was asked for.  I know that now to be untrue.  In fact, Paypal could freeze both people's accounts over transactions in PayPal since it's against their terms of service.  (they don't allow currency exchange of any kind from what I understand).  I also didn't know that when I posted my request. 

So I would now not recommend anyone do a transaction with anyone for bitcoin with PayPal.  My wife has an Etsy store: http://www.etsy.com/shop/AndreasArtJewelry?ref=search_shop_redirect  So I can't afford to have her PayPal account frozen.  We've been trying to figure out a way to accept bitcoin for her stuff, but I don't know how we'd do it within Etsy.  We'll probably have to make her own site for that.  but if you see something you like.  We can do it in bitcoin for you.   


Korxax,




1NtV1q29FtRAYAkMJHMYbASZLiLur2FQe

Wow, thanks TerraHasher!  I just ran across their website a few minutes ago and saw the 2thps miner at $5700 supposedly "in-hand" and was trying to figure out how to scrape up some money.  I've seen that machine supposedly "in-hand" on ebay going for over $30k. 

Tell all your members to huddle around their bitcoin miners for warmth!  Or put them outside and overclock the hell out of them!   

Wish we had a group like yours here. (NW Washingtons State) I'm tempted to start one, but with my medical issues I'd probably have a very difficult time keeping up with it all.

Thanks for saving me and many others some money!


Korxax



1NtV1q29FtRAYAkMJHMYbASZLiLur2FQe