 Show Posts
|
|
Pages: « 1 [2] 3 4 5 »
|
Introduction :
Recently a lot of new Player vs Player sites have been opening up in the Bitcoin gambling scene.
Which is great, I've personally been a huge advocate for PvP to come into popularity with Bitcoin gambling, however it's still important to be cautious.
Many sites claim to have a provably fair system, when in fact they don't. Provably fair implies the user's bets are backed by math, not the casinos word to be fair.
Problem :
We'll start with a very basic coinflip between two users example.
False provable fairness PvP :
> User Satoshi creates his game for 1BTC
> Server displays hash beneath the users game which contains {Winner,RandomString}
> User Nakamoto joins the game for 1BTC
> Server reveals RandomString + Winner
Everything may seem to check out here, the hash was displayed at the start meaning it can't be manipulated, right?
Correct, however it's not manipulation that's the point of failure here, it's the casinos knowledge.
The casino generated the winner themselves, meaning in theory they could know if the game Satoshi created would be a win for whoever joined, or a loss.
The casino could also generate their own name under a different pseudonym, and create one in which is a win for themselves while still providing the hash in the beginning.
Solution :
External source of random of which is determined beforehand but not known by the user or the casino.
For sake of simplicity, I'll illustrate an easy way to implement this.
>User Satoshi creates his game for 1BTC
>User Nakamoto joins the game for 1BTC
>Server gets the current highest bitcoin block + 1 and displays this block to both users to verify its unmined
>Once the block is mined, the server uses the binary of the blocks hash to determine the winnner (i.e 0 = Heads 1 = Tails)
This ensures several things :
1. Transparent and verifiable still by both parties
2. Impossible for casino to manipulate results
3. Predetermined games with still and unknown result by both the player and casino
This may seem very trivial and obvious to a lot of you, however I've seen far too many people confusing fancy hashing and the term
provably fair being thrown around, when in fact the PvP site is not provably fair and essentially has a useless system in place for it.
No need to use 3rd-party information. Imo if you want to make a gambling site, you should be able to make your own RNG on your site. We made a provably fair RNG on our site without 3rd party software or offsite information. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAmSAvmvA70 I saw sites even use Random.org as their RNG lol. Well if there are any questions i will be glad to answer them.  |
|
|
|
Hi all, You can now play against the house with 50/50 odds!(up to 0.20$) You can also do this with your free faucets! GLHF |
|
|
|
Anyone had some more questions or feedback? |
|
|
|
We are currently working on a casino without any house edge. To give you some answers to your questions: 1We are not looking for profits.2We paid for the hosting costs and do all development as a sort of hobby. please ready our thread if you have any more questions! Did you raise the long-hidden thread just to promote your gambling site that provides a 0% house edge? I think this is useless! 0% house edge sounds really impossible because that's the only source of income from a gambling site even if you only profit from the withdrawal fee, I don't think you will be able to cover all the costs you need 0% house edge indirectly I think is a hoax. Well i didn't really feel like starting a new discussion.. Since there were old thread that are not closed an related to the topic. We do not profit from withdraw fee. We are not looking for any income. What costs did you have in mind? All we pay for is hosting lol.  We are currently working on a casino without any house edge. To give you some answers to your questions: 1We are not looking for profits.2We paid for the hosting costs and do all development as a sort of hobby. please ready our thread if you have any more questions! Did you raise the long-hidden thread just to promote your gambling site that provides a 0% house edge? I think this is useless! 0% house edge sounds really impossible because that's the only source of income from a gambling site even if you only profit from the withdrawal fee, I don't think you will be able to cover all the costs you need 0% house edge indirectly I think is a hoax. Digging up some old thread just to announced up their no house edge site.Yes, it do sounds good but wouldn't be enough for them to get some players. Ive seen that poster above where shilling out his site all over the place telling that they do pay up everything when it comes to expense just to make people experience on having no edge place but if we do think generally its really impossible for a gambling site to have no edge yet gambling sites are businesses. Unless if you do build up some charity then its understandable. Like i said above. Didn't feel like starting a new discussion. Yes we pay everything, running a online casino isn't so expensive as you guy think. The only cost we have at the moment is hosting, which we consider as all most nothing. |
|
|
|
Free Faucets are here! Also the minimum bet amount has been set to 0.00000001BTC! Also coming this week: Player vs House with 0% edge(up to 0.20$)!
|
|
|
|
We will add a PvH mode(also zero-edge/rake) soon and free faucets More indepth video on how our RNG works(on the PvP side). Be aware only for people with technical knowledge! |
|
|
|
^^^Title speaks for itself...
We are currently building one you can find us at gambling with the red balls ;P All feedback is welcome |
|
|
|
We will add a PvH mode(also zero-edge/rake) soon and free faucets |
|
|
|
Hey players,
I was looking for opportunity between casinos and found two crypto project which claim that have 0% fees on games, named zeroedge and edgeless. Do you have any experience with them? I asked in their telegram groups, how their concept works, they answered me that their concept is based on their own cryptocurrency, that will grow with number of players and also that not every game will be with 0% fees. I still don't know if it's enough, maybe blockchain will spare some money, on the other hand, they should have big reserve to be able to run. What do you think, will these project successful?
I think there both ico's and one even pulled a exit scam.. Not sure tho. We are currently working on a 0% house edge/rake platform. Feel free to check it out and give us your opinion. It's pretty basic atm but we will roll out updates ever few weeks. More games, better UI etc. Even a PvH mode instead of PvP but more to that later. :$ U can find us on gambling with the redballs(page 2 i think) |
|
|
|
Time to give the gambling power back into the people's hands !BTC
couldn't agree more, we are working on that Please read our thread at gambling with the red balls ;P |
|
|
|
Wouldn't that be fair like in Edgeless casino where they are having 0% house edge and it is more equal between casino and player.
life isn't fair and why should it be with no edge here? i mean you are expecting someone to pay a lot of money for servers, designing a website, security of that website and support staff and a lot more just for you to play there and have no edge? and if you want a 0% edge game then find player versus player games. it can even be dice but i don't know if any place offers it anymore. in those games you have more chance of winning if you have the skills as NLNico also said. I really think there aren't 0% house edge of a gambling site out there and you are right if there is something that doesn't have a house edge at all how can a gambling site will prosper? and take income from the site? if they really wants to play gambling find a gambling site that have smaller house edge maybe a 5% house edge is good, you can surely have a slighter chance of winning, but I have seen just a 1% house edge that is a higher chance in winning, well you can enjoy the game and even help the people behind this type of site make an income. If the site is 0% house edge then how they sustain in this gambling world. How can they make a profit and how can they run their website. These are basic questions will come in mind if any casino site says they had 0% house edge. After seeing this questions also you think it is 0% house edge then no one will help you in this matter. You cannot find any 0% house edge casino site. We are currently working on a casino without any house edge. To give you some answers to your questions: 1We are not looking for profits.2We paid for the hosting costs and do all development as a sort of hobby. please ready our thread if you have any more questions! |
|
|
|
I think its better to launch once the project is fully functional, let people wait but make sure , that its worth it, no need to hurry they. can still wait
I understand what you said and that is the most common way to launch a casino. But from our perspective; we would like to develop the site along with the community and show you guys the progress and if there is something wrong(for example our old RNG system) we will fixt it right away. In this way it's not only our project but yours also! And thb we expected more developers/technical feedback but all feedback is welcome! Please let u know what you think should be added in the site. |
|
|
|
What is your business model? From what I've seen, you don't seem to have any method of making a profit, since you don't take any rake. I'm worried that you're only method of turning a profit is by cheating on your heads and tails game - you know the server seed and know the opponent's client seed, so you can easily create a client seed that generates a win for you.
Fixed that issue |
|
|
|
What additional games are you planning to integrate on your gambling site? I am curious what will happen to this site after a couple or six of months of active operations. Can they sustain their business or not?
We want to add dice games with multiple players, poker, sports-bets(PvP) and lotteries. If the community has some other idea we are willing to add that if it is PvP and without house edge. We are curious as well if people are going to use our service. How are you being able to get money if there is no house edge on your site? I do not understand how are you going to generate some money here. Even if it is a PvP based game there should be some fee that eill be deducted when you are winning towards other players. But here you are saying there is no house edge which means that when players win there will be no deduction for fee. So what is the point of having this gambling site for the start? For players it will be good enough to have something like this for playing because it is pure 50/50 chance but is it profitable for you? I do not think so There will be zero fees or edges. We are not looking to make profit from this project. But we do want the project to be self-sustainable in the long run. So we might add some advertisements later on. If you does not try to make money, how are you going to develop your site then? Everyone know that any gambling site should get some profit or even take some fees to develop their site or may be to use it for the marketing so more players will come and stay to play. But if your site does not need profit, how do you think your site is going to be then? Just opening platform for players to gamble without any purpose? Sorry for my late reply, we have been very busy with the site and our personal life. We develop the site and we do not need any income. We hope gamblers will understand that all the other casinos always win. That is our purpose.
There will be zero fees or edges. We are not looking to make profit from this project. But we do want the project to be self-sustainable in the long run. So we might add some advertisements later on.
If you does not try to make money, how are you going to develop your site then? Everyone know that any gambling site should get some profit or even take some fees to develop their site or may be to use it for the marketing so more players will come and stay to play. But if your site does not need profit, how do you think your site is going to be then? Just opening platform for players to gamble without any purpose? He already said that if he will add advertisements later, so it will be their main source of income for his gambling site. (although i still wonder how they will get people's attention since they are still new on here) The advertisement will only enter the site if the costs will become to high to cover it our selfs. Not as a way to gain a source of income. We hope people will alert each other about this platform, but also there is no need to grow fast.  |
|
|
|
What's going on, why all those red balls? Are we in a red lights district or something?
One red ball would be enough, no need to pop our eyes out!
Lol, i know it's a bit flashy but we saw how other casino's did it with there emoji's and we didn't feel like doing the same. At first we had a simple sentence but there wasn't this much attention, we want to stand out in anyway possible. ;P Please change your topic to something less flashy like your site name and maybe a feature or two like PvP and No House edge.
Like I said before I just don't see this ever being successful. You can't survive without a house edge, the donation idea will not work. Maybe if someone wins big they will donate 1% but most gamblers are greedy and won't donate anything at all.
Another issue is that in crypto we tried the PvP model before and it was even an option on the large prime size dice site and after a few years they removed the option due to low interest.
Most people rather just do it again the house and rely on provably fair.
Its really unsustainable on the longer run yet we know that site profitability would only depend on donations? Ads?Traffic? Sooner or later they would realize that those things cant really able to cope up on sites expense and would tend to switch to have edge ones which isnt surprising.This model had been tried out already by some gambling sites but ending up to closure and as said this isnt sustainable. ^ I agree that those red balls are quite a distraction. We will never switch to a house edge of fee in anyway. If it won't be able to become self-sustainable we will cover all expenses. And yes the model has been tried out before but always with a business model behind it, since we don't have one we will never say that it isn't profiting enough. I see everyone talking about expenses, what did you have in mind beside the hosting? It's not a company, no employees, no making revenue. Only hosting and we calculated that we are able to cover the hosting at any given time, even with 10,000 users. |
|
|
|
Please change your topic to something less flashy like your site name and maybe a feature or two like PvP and No House edge.
Like I said before I just don't see this ever being successful. You can't survive without a house edge, the donation idea will not work. Maybe if someone wins big they will donate 1% but most gamblers are greedy and won't donate anything at all.
Another issue is that in crypto we tried the PvP model before and it was even an option on the large prime size dice site and after a few years they removed the option due to low interest.
Most people rather just do it again the house and rely on provably fair.
We tried something less flashy but we didn't got that many views.. We operate within the criteria of this forum. If the donation idea doesn't work we might add some advertisements later on, but like i said donations are just to get extra progress on the site. Think about paying for a website translator etc. We are not hoping on making a living from the donations aspect. Also not on the adds, those will be there just to make the platform self-sustainable. If that happens within 2 years we will be happy enough. Well we will be provable fair, and will try to get out all the flaws the co-exist with a PvP system. We believe that this will work, and we will do our best to make it work. ;P I will fully support the project that you are going to make, but at least you guarantee something or have a respected member partner in this forum. So people will trust you far more, rather than having to advertise. Indeed this is not fair, when I ask for guarantees about your project and you do not get anything from the project that you made, but believe when you have a guarantee there will be many donations to your project, not even just on your project, but a donation to you personally. We understand but, we believe that users will attract more users. And we will be continuously working on this project and we hope one day people will trust us enough en start playing. We will update our work progress through this forum. Besides that, the donation aspect is only for users who want to see the platform growing faster! We see no reason to put our personal BTC adress anywhere. |
|
|
|
Please change your topic to something less flashy like your site name and maybe a feature or two like PvP and No House edge.
Like I said before I just don't see this ever being successful. You can't survive without a house edge, the donation idea will not work. Maybe if someone wins big they will donate 1% but most gamblers are greedy and won't donate anything at all.
Another issue is that in crypto we tried the PvP model before and it was even an option on the large prime size dice site and after a few years they removed the option due to low interest.
Most people rather just do it again the house and rely on provably fair.
We tried something less flashy but we didn't got that many views.. We operate within the criteria of this forum. If the donation idea doesn't work we might add some advertisements later on, but like i said donations are just to get extra progress on the site. Think about paying for a website translator etc. We are not hoping on making a living from the donations aspect. Also not on the adds, those will be there just to make the platform self-sustainable. If that happens within 2 years we will be happy enough. Well we will be provable fair, and will try to get out all the flaws the co-exist with a PvP system. We believe that this will work, and we will do our best to make it work. ;P |
|
|
|
What additional games are you planning to integrate on your gambling site? I am curious what will happen to this site after a couple or six of months of active operations. Can they sustain their business or not?
We want to add dice games with multiple players, poker, sports-bets(PvP) and lotteries. If the community has some other idea we are willing to add that if it is PvP and without house edge. We are curious as well if people are going to use our service. How are you being able to get money if there is no house edge on your site? I do not understand how are you going to generate some money here. Even if it is a PvP based game there should be some fee that eill be deducted when you are winning towards other players. But here you are saying there is no house edge which means that when players win there will be no deduction for fee. So what is the point of having this gambling site for the start? For players it will be good enough to have something like this for playing because it is pure 50/50 chance but is it profitable for you? I do not think so There will be zero fees or edges. We are not looking to make profit from this project. But we do want the project to be self-sustainable in the long run. So we might add some advertisements later on. |
|
|
|
so , the monetization will be through donations , right?
I would like to see the site first , but I'm sure the business model is simply not going to make it
from my experience, when you provide some service or goods and ask people to donate if they like it
you will end up with one or two random donations , if even that , but I can see you are not too worried about the money aspect
adding ads to a gambling site doesn't give any bonus points from the point of view of a gambler
but once again , lets wait and see the product first , when is the ETA for the site to go live?
You can visit our site at www.Fifty-Fifty.casino. we are currently in the beta so don't expect to much. Tips are really common in the regular casino's. There is no business model because all donations will be used to improve the website. We will not use the donations for our own benefit. Well we heard that most people don't mind seeing 1-2 adds a day for a free casino. Just to keep the platform self-sustainable. well , I had a peek the site is very basic , to put it mildly :0 its a pure PVP site, you say that there will be only player vs player games this leads to another problem , that really hampers all of the PVP casinos - provably fair aspect it is very hard to prove that the opponent you just lost to is not a house bot or the games are not rigged in any way there were many attempts to create a popular pvp casino , all of them failed lets hope you find a winning formula and your site makes it , good luck I understand the site looks kinda basic at the moment. We are working really hard on improving the backend of the website. The next couple of months we will start with improving our UI. Please read the bottom part of our thread this will clarify the provable fair part. ;P |
|
|
|
What additional games are you planning to integrate on your gambling site? I am curious what will happen to this site after a couple or six of months of active operations. Can they sustain their business or not?
We want to add dice games with multiple players, poker, sports-bets(PvP) and lotteries. If the community has some other idea we are willing to add that if it is PvP and without house edge. We are curious as well if people are going to use our service. |
|
|
|
|
