Hi bro,

fun story 1min before your post i got logged out again, re logged in then saw it like "Ah here is saw this..." Haha i felt a bit stupid i must say

But thanks for helping!

@panor: could you or somebody else shortly answer those 3 questions, since i want to participate now, so that i can mentally mark this done for me. Thx.

First question would be on which communication channel will you communicate first when the plattform opens for investors (i mean the ones that come after the ICBM like me). I am usually quite busy and need a secure mechanism to remind me when this thing launches. This thread here? Reddit any other option better`?

• in the whitepaper it states:
  
  Quote
  Funds locked during the ICBM gain priority access to company ETOs, so
  investment tickets acquired for those funds will be executed before tickets coming
  from the general public ( first look right ).
  Lets say gina locks up during the ICBM funds worth 1000€.
  The first ETO of the SUPER CORP she likes so much that she wants to invest more than the 1000€ she deployed originally, it is still 1 week till the launch of the ETO, so she decides to send another 1000€ to her account.
  
   Tim who has not participatd in the ICBM sends his funds the same day but many hours earlier then Gina.
  
  Now the question: For the first 1000€ of Gina´s account the case is clear she has participated with them in the ETO, so she gets served before Tim (first look right). But what about the 1000€ she deployed later who gets the ETO´s shares first Tim or Gina?
  The question boils down to whether only the funds originally deployed have a first look right or the person participating can refund unlimited and those funds still have first look right. Which from my perspective would be really sad because than it probably makes no sense to invest as a "latercomer" (aka "me")
  
• So lets say the first ETO successfull, Gina invested her 1000€ in the SUPER CORP. Now comes the 2nd ETO the EVEN BETTER CORP. She likes it so she sends another 1000€ and bids for the 2nd ETO. Does this 2nd batch still have first look rights or is she processed in the qeue of investors who didn´t partake in the ICBM on a first come first served basis like everybody else. Or to put it another way do investors that partake for e.g. 1000€ in the ICBM have a lifetime first look right to invest 1000€ in every ETO there is (given that they "reload" the capital every time) or is it only the original capital that partook in the ICBM that has firstlook rights ? Then againg i don´t need to bother with NEU to long since the first 12mill have "unbeatable" adavantage

thx! And good luck with everything...

Sry for this noob question,
but since i can not find it (probably to damn tired) where is the setting for auto log off, can´t find it...

thx!

Clearstream... I am investing in stocks for 20 years now and i didn't think a second about it!!
Oh thanks i really love those substantiated "a bit legal" and honest answers  

I more and more see your strategy here and i think this is really the way to go. Try to meet regulatory demand as far as possible. And the for last 20%, trust that regulators will have a friendly look on this. They did with crowdfunding and i think they will with tokens. Because if they would reject neufund its very clear what means: the legal way is killed, so all the more illegal scammy ICO from overseas... I don't see the BAFIN as anti-Blockchain, they are more prudent, but hey that's how regulators are...


Oh no i know, i read every single page of white- and lightpaper, legal documents and whatever you have online. I wasn't talking about the 12 mill from your ICBM, i was referring to you crunchbase profile which states that you as a company got 12mill (kinda coincidence that both amounts are the same):
https://www.crunchbase.com/search/funding_rounds/field/organizations/funding_total/neufund

partly from the legendary firm KKR. Which is impressive in itself.


Oh this is really strucking a chord with me!! Say no to this BS hyping and keep building this up in a calm and collected way. This project has enough potential and does not need hyping.

For the people here always asking for "PUMP IT MORE BRO" a little story from my experience of the potential of this idea:
I was 18 when the "german Nasdaq" ("Neuer Markt" ~ New Market) launched. I remember it well how it started and it became a HUGE success in 2 years. I was immediateley hooked, even started managing funds for other people. I never had a summer of 69 but i sure had my summer of `99 there was an unbelievable energy and optimism. Companies from all over the world wanted to get listed here. 2,5 years after the segment startet they had around 120 companies with a total worth of 56 billion market cap (imagine you get a 2% cut of this) 3 years later at the All-time-High they had over 200 companies listed with total worth over 230 Billion €. Larger than the GDP of many countries. This project reminds me a lot of the New Market, its even better in many ways.... (earlier financing, first mover advantage, new technology with clear advantages, creating an new asset class...)

Not that you guys would need it but there are 2 lessons one can take away from the cometic rise (and fall) of the new market:

• If the first 2 emissions are a homerun there is no holding back, segments that provide capital to new promising technologies tend to explode in unbelievable ways.. The first Company that got listed on the Neuer Markt was Mobilcom. If i remember it correctly they trippled in the first month or so. After that the ball got really rolling: Investors flocking in in hordes, companies would "chopp of an arm" to get in (on a side note the 3%/2% fee is nothing, companies would pay 9%/4% in an blink of an eye if they see that they raise large amounts of capital quickly), first germany, than it spread over europe, than companies even from overseas wanted to get a listing.
• Why did it end? Well the quality of the companies that got a listing detoriated over time tremendously. Scam artits entering the scene, false bookkeeping, market manipulation. Some of the CEO's got prison for this . It was a huge shock for the public, that the CEOs that were treated as rockstars, now sitting in court sounding like total idiots (The CEO of "Comroad" got inglouriously famous because he could not explaing in court what "Sales" are), and going to prison later. The public image of the New Market got so bad the "Deutsche Börse" (German Exchange) had to close the segment and rebrand the index to "TecDax".

So what to take from this: Imho quality does matter. Hype can make anything a giant for a short period of time, but in the end only quality passes the test of time...

O.K. i got a bit carried away with memories - i hope it wasn't boring for anybody.

To sum it up: I must say my point of view on this project has quite changed from "yeah hell of a potential, but how to make this legal", to "damn i really should have gotten in this earlier at ICBM time"

Everybody have a good one!

@panor: Thank you for taking time and writing this good answer! I appreciate it! I am getting tempted to invest in this more and more.

One more question about this. Lets say the Bafin says the ETOs are securities, how difficult /what problems would this cause?
I googled this a bit and read in the law/statements from Bafin and i must say it doesn´t even sound that bad if it would be a security and you would be classified as "Finanzdienstleistungsunternehmen" (financial service enterprise). For examplef the minimum capital requirement to be an "Investment bank" ("Wertpapierhandelsbank") was a staggering LOW number of unbelievable 730.000€. You might need 2 CEO´s with experience in banking tho.
For companies that are in the placement business the minimum capital requirement is just 50.000€ - what is basically nothing.

And since your Fifth Force GmbH raised 12 Mill. euro and is backed by Private Equity giant KKR, you have good access to capital.
I was really surprised how undramatic this all sounded.

Am i overlooking something, or why is it from your perspective important/or better if the classification is "Finanzinstrumente" over securities?

Well i really like this project. But it would be nice if your lawyer could answer shortly 2 questions. Because in the Whitepaper and with your answer here you (as a company) always dance around 2 questions.

1. What classification under the german laws do you guys hope for how the ETOs (not Neumark) of the companies that you plan to fund will be treated from Bafin?
As "Finanzinstrumente" (financial instruments is a legal term in germany), "Wertpapiere" (securities) or what else and under which of the many laws do you *want* to be classified (WpHG, WpPG, VermAnlG)? What would be your goal?

2. In your whitepaper you write that you plan enabling trading of the ETO tokens on your patform. So what kind of license do you think you require from Bafin to do this? No law essay just an answer whether you think you are "multi lateral trading platform" (thats a legal term in germany) or a fully fledged Exchange? A LOT depends on those things.

The Bafin starting with the end of last year has issued a series of some sometimes quite severe warnings:
the Nov statement is a especially worrisome for this project:

source:https://www.bafin.de/SharedDocs/Veroeffentlichungen/EN/Fachartikel/2017/fa_bj_1711_ICO_en.html

so the Bafin states that BEFORE you launch the platform you need to have a permission from Bafin.

When are you planning to apply for this license? I could not find ANYTHING on the web that you have applied. How long do you think it will take to get the license? Do you think you can start with the ETOs this year, or do you think it will take longer?

The statement then continues:


So to sum up you really need your permission before you can start your platform. And therefore you need to think about as what you want to be seen (legally).

And the End of the statement sounds like they literally address Neufund, which is no wonder, since you guys have a lot of attention here (which is good!):



I talked to some people here in the last 2 weeks and more and more people are getting worried about this. Since you never covered this in the right way giving a clear answer what you try to achieve It started with the Whitepaper having just 1 Sentence about it: "Equity tokens are deemed securites under German law" ( I think you used the word "securities" here in a lax way and it would be much better i you weren't treated as securities)

And the Bafin is getting more and more active in the recent weeks sending more and more warnings, some serious in tone. And i think that is what is behind the falling prices...The radiosilence regarding a real outlook is getting awkward. After the recent "Hinweisschreiben" from Bafin it is clear that this is not going away from alone or solve itself!!

Could your lawyer just write 2-3 sentences about what you guys hope to get classified for? Your laywer looks very good, is invested in the company (which is good). I am sure he has some
substantial thoughts about this. And i think this project needs some public support from the communityto go through, to many projects have been killed by the Bafin. so it would be good if you could give some "Amunition" to do so.

You would absolutely lose nothing by giving your outlook of how you feel this issues should be treated, instead of the same old answer with yes we have a lawyer and everything is fine...

After 3 months this is getting a bit worrisome...

Hi all Bitcoiners,
i am interested in your opinion will bitcoin price go up or down after the Halving?
Selling now or after halving?

Hi guys maybe i am wrong, but i have the feeling the arguments here present only 1/2 of the movie, that goes like this: if FCT is to cheap then FCT's will be burned quickly so price has to go up to prevent this. Wonderful story but let me tell you the second half of the movie with the big BUT and the but goes like this:

Imagine FCT price is in an equilibrium to Ec's price and let's say 1FCT=1.5$  and 1 EC= 0.005$ (https://www.factom.com/entry-credits/). so 1FCT buys 300 EC's today. And the burn rate today is 300.000 Ec's a month which is at current rate 1000 FCT's per month.

Lets now say demand skyrockets it grows buy the factor of 1000 from 1000 FCT's /month to 1.000.000 Factoms a month (Astonishing 300 Mio EC's) and lets assume the price would rise by factor 1000 too from 1.5 to 1500$ a piece. So this is the first half of the movie everyone refers to.

But in reality the movie doesn't stop here, because of the specifics of the factom construction. And this point now it goes: For the 300.000 Ec's that are needed you only need (300.000.000 Ec's *0.005$/each)/1500$ per Factom = 1.000 Factom per month

So the demand for entry credits exploded by factor 1000, but the demand stayed at 1000 Factoms/month as before. With such a low demand for FCT's price can not stay at 1500$ a piece and it falls back quickly.

And that is the reason that Factom can not really rise beyond its equilibrium price (besides speculation). One can not tell where that equilibrium price is, but once its reached it doesn't matter if demand for Ec's is a 1000 times higher or Dropboxlevel a 1 billion times higher the demand for Factoms never rises.

hope i made clear what i mean...

I see it from the other side: If the value of Ec's is fixed how can 1 factom be worth more than the price of the one EC?

This means that if the price of FCT rises you need less FCT to convert into EC's. In other words price of FCT after adjustment is always the same and can not rise.
For example as of today 1 FTC=1.433 USD=1433 EC's. Demand drives FCT price up 100x times to 1FCT=143.3$. So now i just need 0.01 FCT to get my 1433 EC's, so demand for factom goes down again. At some point there will be an Equilibrium, demand for Factom can go up 1 Million times, absolutey NO increase in price whatsoever...

marechoux posted this link (thanks man):
https://www.reddit.com/r/factom/comments/3p190a/the_economics_behind_the_factoid_to_entry_credit/

So the same question. But i am not really convinced that the answer of Paul Snow is right. Why is he only counting the newly created FCT (I think wrote wrongly EC's but means 73 000 FCT)? Why doe the already created FCT do not count is there a logical explanation? In my opinion all FCT that exist of today can be used to buy EC's not just the newly created ones. And besides that Paul is not really bringing an argument why the argument is false, that if price of FCT increases demand for factom decreases by the exact same factor so per saldo nothing is happening

Greets

Thanks for you trying to help but your did misunderstand me. This link i already read and its not what i am looking for

In Core my question is this: If i buy Entry credits for 10 factoms how is then the decision made how many EC's i do get Is it a "fixed rate" like for 10 Factoms you always get 10000 credits or how is the mechanism to determine how many EC's one factom is worth?

Hi all,

I am just starting to research FCT a little more. What are cool projects that FCT does right now? What is coming up soon?

Your input is appreciated.

Hi Tempus,

no i would be interested in an explanation how EC's are created out of factoms. With detail i did not mean super technical step by step like: "go to the Cli comand type in"... but more in procedural sense...

Could someone explain in detail how EC's are beeing created out of factoids? Its very mystical for me.

wonder what the settlement is for a future on Vitalik's Mum..

Well bitmex has futures, but not *really* on ETH...

Very much thanks for answering sirs,

but i was looking for "futures exchanges on ETH".... the others i already know...

Honk Honk all ya lubes,

does somebody know a place where i can trade Futures on ETH - besides Bitmex?

Thank you hasi,

very good step by step explanation. But do you have a red sign in front of "bitcoin" "under maintenance" or is this just because somehow my address check ist still pending...

I am pretty shure that https://bittrex.com/ is the right site.

Could someone give me a step by step explanation where to click to make a deposit.
Or if he/she is a hero press print screen and attach it here....