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21  Economy / Lending / Re: Bryan Micon's List of BTC Ponzi Schemes that should not be listed as "Lending" on: July 28, 2012, 06:33:08 AM
This problem with this whole, "no business can give 2% interest per week without being a scam" line of thinking is it's way too insular, and lacking of any historical nuance.  Such an interest rate probably is not sustainable in many (if not all) established businesses.  Bitcoin is not established.  There is good historical precedence for emergent technologies/business practices making a boat load of money for people who are wise enough to understand the volatility and opportunities at hand.  

Rockefeller made a whole bunch of people millionaires back when Standard Oil was just starting out.  Ford made plenty of people rich when he figured out a new paradigm.  The examples are legion.  

Micon is making a mistake based on several cognitive biases, here.  Some of these ventures may well be scams, but it seems to me that there are many independent people on these boards with large amounts of cash and capital at stake.  It's within all of our best interests to keep it as honest as possible.  Just because something is extremely risky, doesn't mean it's a scam.  It just means it's...extremely risky.  
22  Economy / Goods / Re: $50 Joe's Crab Shack Gift Card for 4BTC on: July 27, 2012, 08:38:18 PM
^Card is still available.
23  Economy / Goods / $50 Joe's Crab Shack Gift Card for 4BTC on: July 26, 2012, 11:52:01 PM
I have one $50 Joe's Crab Shack gift card I'll let go for 4BTC.

If interested, PM me and we can work out the details.

Many thanks!
24  Economy / Lending / Re: Bryan Micon's List of BTC Ponzi Schemes that should not be listed as "Lending" on: July 26, 2012, 06:52:40 PM
I agree that credit is attractive to an individual who knows she has the option of never repaying. And I know that early adopters to Ponzi scams can make money. Bur in the end, I think spades should be called spades and scams called scams.

OP is fundamentally right, even if he is a horrid poker player "gambler."

OP is fundamentally incorrect, for the very reasons I stated.  If someone is offering me a very risky service, which may well result in me losing capital, and is completely upfront about all the risks involved, how in the world can that be classified as a "scam?"

So many people were burned on the original Ponzi scheme (and later with Bernie Madoff) because those two people really *were* scamming people.  They did not disclose the risks.  They guaranteed things which could not be guaranteed, and they blatantly lied to the people who gave them money. 

Like I said upstream, I've put money into Bitcoinmax.  I'm well aware of the risks.  I know nothing is guaranteed me, and I'm fairly confident I'm not being lied to. 

Am I being scammed? 

Words mean things.  You can't just throw them around without consequence. 

This is all ironic because the OP accuses those of offering and accepting these services of being "kiddies." 

Yet, it's those who misappropriate language and fail to understand that words have consequences who are acting like children.
25  Economy / Lending / Re: Bryan Micon's List of BTC Ponzi Schemes that should not be listed as "Lending" on: July 26, 2012, 06:18:30 PM
ROFL, you can get money on a freaking credit card cash advance for 0.5% a week. Anyone paying more for loans than that is irrational, a scammer, or a kid who doesn't know any better. I wouldn't lend any of them money.

It's not about whether someone can actually make 0.5-2.5% ROI, it's about whether it makes sense for someone to pay that much for a loan. It doesn't.

It may not make sense *to you*, but it obviously makes sense to others.  Here's a hint.  We aren't a collectivized entity.  We each approach these things as individuals, assess the risks, and act accordingly.  In other words, people work and play on the margins all the time.  This is how the margins get pushed back to make room for the rest of us.  The people who work and play out there either understand the risks and act accordingly, or they quickly get burned.

26  Economy / Lending / Re: Bryan Micon's List of BTC Scams and Ponzi Schemes on: July 26, 2012, 05:52:09 PM

I suggest you create a bounty for the person or persons who can bring proof that it is a ponzi. I'm sure there are a lot of people who would donate to that (especially the investors themselves). It would be much more helpful than laying down thousands of bitcoins for bets against pirate.


This is an excellent idea.  Incentives work more efficiently at the margins than coercion. 
27  Economy / Lending / Re: Bryan Micon's List of BTC Ponzi Schemes that should not be listed as "Lending" on: July 26, 2012, 05:50:10 PM
I've invested a bit of money in Bitcoinmax.  Not much, but some.  I may be fairly new to Bitcoin, but I'm rather adept at life.  I certainly have enough real-life experience under my belt to understand how to mitigate a high risk transaction.  I'm sure that a 6.9% compounded interest rate is not sustainable in the long term, but for now, it seems to be working fine, no?  Of course the whole thing may collapse tomorrow (or sooner), but that's a risk I'm willing to take.  

And, come-on.  Just *getting* into Bitcoin (educating yourself about it, transferring funds, exchanging funds for Bitcoins, setting up wallets, etc...) probably means you have a better than average understanding of risk management.  

Services like Bitcoinmax have value.  They allow people (for various reasons...I'll explain mine in a moment) to do some heavy speculating.  Sometimes that works out, sometimes it doesn't.  It's the individual's responsibility to mitigate the risks.  If Bitcoinmax fails tomorrow (or sooner), I have nobody to blame but myself.  He plainly states that he doesn't guarantee deposits.  He plainly states that all of the risk lies with the depositor.  So, what's the problem, here?  

I take a bit of umbrage when people come around and insist telling me that I'm being scammed.  If I were being lied to, or the risks of the speculation were hidden from me, that may well be the case.  I don't see that happening, here.  

I plan on watching my deposit on a daily basis and start mitigating the risk of said deposit as soon as possible.  This can be done any number of ways, but the important thing is, I'm taking responsibility for my own actions.  

I love Bitcoin and these forums because they are generally anarchistic and unregulated.  I enjoy seeing mutual cooperation come together to solve problems in a void.  There are ways of of determining scams, and the serious people on these boards seem to be coming up with good counters to those scams all the time.  This is how a free, unregulated market is supposed to work.  

I'm not a child.  I understand the risks.  I want to swim in these waters, and I wouldn't have it any other way.

**The reason I'm speculating in Bitcoinmax at the moment is to get my "feet wet" and to attempt to grow a large enough stake where I can start doing lending of my own.  This is a learning process for me.  If I lose my stake, I'll chalk it up as a price of admission.

And, that's all I have to say about that.
28  Economy / Goods / Re: One Silver Quarter (1964 or Before) for 0.50 BTC on: July 26, 2012, 04:40:05 AM
This is my confirmation that RDegas is sending me one 1964 or earlier 90% silver quarter for the price of .5 BTC. Thanks!

Confirmed  Smiley  I will post confirmation of payment when received.

Thanks!
29  Economy / Goods / Re: One Silver Quarter (1964 or Before) for 0.50 BTC on: July 26, 2012, 04:02:48 AM
One Silver Quarter being sent to 'the joint' on Thursday, July 26th.  Payment to be sent upon receipt of package.  I will confirm in this thread.

I have a few more quarters to sell if anyone else is interested.

Thanks!
30  Economy / Goods / Re: One Silver Quarter (1964 or Before) for 0.50 BTC on: July 26, 2012, 03:19:09 AM

You might also try adding it to the order book on the #bitcoin-otc marketplace.   That is useful for also building up a trust history on the #bitcoin-otc Web of Trust (WoT), useful regardless of where you trade -- here on the forum, on BitMit, etc.

 - http://bitcoin-otc.com/vieworderbook.php
 - http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=#bitcoin-otc-foyer
 - http://bitcoin-otc.com/viewratings.php

Many thanks, Stephen.  I'll do that.  Thanks for the advice.  It's good to see senior members lending their expertise to those of us who are new.

Cheers!
31  Economy / Goods / One Silver Quarter (1964 or Before) for 0.50 BTC on: July 26, 2012, 02:25:38 AM
I'm new, but have read on the forums that the best way to establish a reputation is to sell some goods.  I will sell one 1964 or before silver quarter (junk silver) for 0.55 BTC.  Price includes shipping/handling and insurance.

If interested, either PM me or post below.  (We can work out the details in PM).

Many thanks!

*Edited to take the price down from .55 to .50 BTC*
32  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Bitcrate resurrected! Free Bitcoins everyday on: July 24, 2012, 10:04:29 PM
I don't think I've received anything over .002, but I'll take it!
33  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Experience with Lending? on: July 24, 2012, 10:03:40 PM
Not a complete guide, but not a bad place to start.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=81542.0

Thanks, Patrick.

A few people have PM'd me and have given some advice.  I'm pleasantly surprised at how helpful people seem to be around here.
34  Other / Beginners & Help / Experience with Lending? on: July 24, 2012, 05:39:44 PM
As newbies, does anyone here have any experience with either lending BTC or depositing it for interest?  How did it work out for you?  Any difficulties, trust issues, etc...?

I'd be interested to hear how people "invest" their BTC funds.
35  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Bitcrate resurrected! Free Bitcoins everyday on: July 24, 2012, 05:33:24 PM
I go there once a day.  Not much of a payout, but free money is free money.
36  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Introduce yourself :) on: July 23, 2012, 12:42:03 PM
Greetings, all.  I'm fairly new to bitcoin and brand new to the forum.  I hope to learn much from those who know better.  I look forward to being a contributing member!
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