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Can you provide access to some scenarios that lay out how the dividend math to token-holders would work in practice? I would imagine that some folks here may not be that sophisticated in their understanding of how the value flows through the layers here. Thanks.
Good question, would like to understand this as well. |
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I have a question how will other cryptocurrencies be treated (Lisk and Ethereum for example) ? Automatically shifted to BTC or will they stay in LISK and ETH? I'm asking due to price volatility and if someone invests 1000 LISK how will that be handled at the end what if price is doubled or if it goes down as well as FIAT currencies?
Will everything be converted to BTC at the time of deposit?
We'll be accepting Bitcoin, Ethereum (ETH) and Lisk. All the funds will be kept the same way as we receive them. At the end of ICO, that is on 29th September at 20.00 CET we'll calculate value of investments in EUR and you will then you will know fixed number of ICN tokens. The same will apply to USD deposits. Currencies that will be accepted via Shapeshift will be converted to BTC at the time of sending them and kept in BTC> In this case the less volatile option to deposit is EUR, right ? If you don't poses any crypto now then I would say yes. And if you compare usd/eur then eur is the one that is not volatile. But USD can be compared to eur. I think even if you have crypto, because you mention "At the end of ICO, that is on 29th September at 20.00 CET we'll calculate value of investments in EUR and you will then you will know fixed number of ICN tokens", because you are going to use EUR as your functional ICO currency, the only way to avoid value fluctuation (in your favor or against you) is to convert any other currency (crypto or fiat) in EUR and then deposit. Don't you agree ? Yes, you're right. However, if you deposit EUR and BTC appreciated a lot. Then relatively you get less for each EUR. And vice versa. Just a curiosity, why not instead of using EUR you don't use BTC or ETH as the functional ICO currency ? |
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I have a question how will other cryptocurrencies be treated (Lisk and Ethereum for example) ? Automatically shifted to BTC or will they stay in LISK and ETH? I'm asking due to price volatility and if someone invests 1000 LISK how will that be handled at the end what if price is doubled or if it goes down as well as FIAT currencies?
Will everything be converted to BTC at the time of deposit?
We'll be accepting Bitcoin, Ethereum (ETH) and Lisk. All the funds will be kept the same way as we receive them. At the end of ICO, that is on 29th September at 20.00 CET we'll calculate value of investments in EUR and you will then you will know fixed number of ICN tokens. The same will apply to USD deposits. Currencies that will be accepted via Shapeshift will be converted to BTC at the time of sending them and kept in BTC> In this case the less volatile option to deposit is EUR, right ? If you don't poses any crypto now then I would say yes. And if you compare usd/eur then eur is the one that is not volatile. But USD can be compared to eur. I think even if you have crypto, because you mention "At the end of ICO, that is on 29th September at 20.00 CET we'll calculate value of investments in EUR and you will then you will know fixed number of ICN tokens", because you are going to use EUR as your functional ICO currency, the only way to avoid value fluctuation (in your favor or against you) is to convert any other currency (crypto or fiat) in EUR and then deposit. Don't you agree ? |
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I have a question how will other cryptocurrencies be treated (Lisk and Ethereum for example) ? Automatically shifted to BTC or will they stay in LISK and ETH? I'm asking due to price volatility and if someone invests 1000 LISK how will that be handled at the end what if price is doubled or if it goes down as well as FIAT currencies?
Will everything be converted to BTC at the time of deposit?
We'll be accepting Bitcoin, Ethereum (ETH) and Lisk. All the funds will be kept the same way as we receive them. At the end of ICO, that is on 29th September at 20.00 CET we'll calculate value of investments in EUR and you will then you will know fixed number of ICN tokens. The same will apply to USD deposits. Currencies that will be accepted via Shapeshift will be converted to BTC at the time of sending them and kept in BTC> In this case the less volatile option to deposit is EUR, right ? |
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My thoughts on the whitepaper : What attracts me the most is the Transparent Open Fund Management (OFM) platform, the idea of individuals creating their own investments funds is really powerful, in the old economy although possible it is prohibitively expensive to do so and to attract investors is impossible. For investors into the funds the transparency is another differential and also powerful. But do i think the platform will disrupt the asset management industry ? Unfortunately in my opinion not while the platform allow just position on coins, if at any point in time in the future i am also able to buy other assets through the platform, example i have a portfolio which is short ETH, long S&P500 and short USDJPY, then this have a real potential of disrupting the industry, but i imagine we are far away from this reality at this point, because of regulation. But still it is an idea that i want be in from the start because the successful paths that the platform can take are many, even if the OFM doesn't fly on the short/middle term. Also can't wait to open my own crypto quantitative fund !  You are right. It will be very hard to disrupt classic asset management from the old economy. Regulations, rules and everything. And this world of ours is moving way too fast for the old one to follow at the same pace. Is there any possible situation that my initial stake in the platform gets diluted by any management action ? Like a second round of tokens issue, creation of another form of stake in the platform. If not, how this is guarantee ? It will be baked in the contract. 100m is the coin cap. Let me ask 2 questions following this answer: - You gonna distribute 85% capital of the platform on a 1 round of funding ? Wouldn't be more advisable to let some of the coins to future funding if needed ? What happens in the future, for example if you are reaching some milestones, doing well, but you need more "capital" to take the platform further ? - The team keeps 15% of the coins and the market has 85% ?Isn't possible to someone who is very interested on the platform in the future to make an "hostile takeover", buying 51% of the coins in the market, what would happen in this situation ? If we would need/want more capital we would trigger voting. And if 75% would agree to issue more tokens and gain more value for all then this is what would happen. But that would only be possible with sufficient voting. With regarding to previous answer, 75% would be needed. Probably hard to get that much. Plus... price would get up accordingly by a lot. So it would be pure gain for ICN holders. And then the one doing takeover would replace us as operators. I actually think it's not likely scenario unless we would really start messing up, but is technically possible. Got it, thanks ! It is important to know that we have this option open. |
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Hey dev, i havent received invite to telegram group.
Can u send me?
Thx
Would like as well |
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Eu vou entrar nessa ICO, tenho participado bastante do forum em inglês e ate conversado diretamenta com os dev e administradores.
Trabalho no mercado financeiro e tenho bastante familiaridade com o que eels estão propondo.
Qualuer duvida estou a disposição para ajudar aqui.
Name: roguetrader Posts: 26 Activity: 25 Position: Newbie Date Registered: July 28, 2016, 12:41:18 AM la garantia soy yo roguetrader, ta vendo muito filme.... Boa opinião, ajudou bastante. Ficar de bla bla bla não adianta nada amigo, se não concorda escreva seus argumentos, e ajude as pessoas do forum a formarem opinião ... |
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I work as quantitative trader and risk manager on a investment bank, and i would like to start studying some quantitative trading strategies on cryptocoins, does anyone knows where can i access historical prices databases, preferably with intraday historical ?
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Com certeza, cautela é bom em qualquer investimeto.
Mas cara, senti uma boa diferença nessa ICO para as outras, tanto no planejamento quanto no suporte!
Da uma conferida bacana ai!
Já não esta mais [PRE-ANN] muda lá o topico para [ANN] por favor. |
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Eu vou entrar nessa ICO, tenho participado bastante do forum em inglês e ate conversado diretamenta com os dev e administradores.
Trabalho no mercado financeiro e tenho bastante familiaridade com o que eels estão propondo.
Qualuer duvida estou a disposição para ajudar aqui.
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My thoughts on the whitepaper : What attracts me the most is the Transparent Open Fund Management (OFM) platform, the idea of individuals creating their own investments funds is really powerful, in the old economy although possible it is prohibitively expensive to do so and to attract investors is impossible. For investors into the funds the transparency is another differential and also powerful. But do i think the platform will disrupt the asset management industry ? Unfortunately in my opinion not while the platform allow just position on coins, if at any point in time in the future i am also able to buy other assets through the platform, example i have a portfolio which is short ETH, long S&P500 and short USDJPY, then this have a real potential of disrupting the industry, but i imagine we are far away from this reality at this point, because of regulation. But still it is an idea that i want be in from the start because the successful paths that the platform can take are many, even if the OFM doesn't fly on the short/middle term. Also can't wait to open my own crypto quantitative fund ! You are right. It will be very hard to disrupt classic asset management from the old economy. Regulations, rules and everything. And this world of ours is moving way too fast for the old one to follow at the same pace. Is there any possible situation that my initial stake in the platform gets diluted by any management action ? Like a second round of tokens issue, creation of another form of stake in the platform. If not, how this is guarantee ? It will be baked in the contract. 100m is the coin cap. Let me ask 2 questions following this answer: - You gonna distribute 85% capital of the platform on a 1 round of funding ? Wouldn't be more advisable to let some of the coins to future funding if needed ? What happens in the future, for example if you are reaching some milestones, doing well, but you need more "capital" to take the platform further ? - The team keeps 15% of the coins and the market has 85% ?Isn't possible to someone who is very interested on the platform in the future to make an "hostile takeover", buying 51% of the coins in the market, what would happen in this situation ? |
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Arbitragem nesse caso vc quer dizer operar a mesma altcoin em diferentes exchanges ou operar uma altcoin contra a outra tipo vendido em ETH/BTC e comprado em DASH/BTC o que seria equivalente a estar comprado em DASH e vendido em ETH ?
Quero dizer fazendo um DASH/BTC num exchange e no outro um BTC/DASH(se der lucro CLARO)... E fazer isso com varias altcoins Eu acho que provavelmente deva ocorrer esses descasamentos, mas como qualquer situação de arbitragem existe algumas características que dificultam para o pequeno investidor se aproveitar delas. 1- As margens são extremamente apertadas para ter um lucro que valha a pena vc vai precisar se alavancar se quiser lucrar. 2- Mesmo que se alavancar não seja um problema para vc, tem o problema da liquidez, vc vai precisar arranjar uma oportunidade que tenha um bom volume nas 2 pontas do trade. 3-e fora isso provavelmente tem muitos bots no mercado programados para monitorar e se aproveitar muito rapidamente desses tipo de situação e competir com eles demandaria um bom investimento em equipamento. |
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Damn wth is that  I don't understand what you propose that any of us can't do without you ? You are right, for example you can manage your portfolio of coins and you dont need then to do it. But the point is, are you able to display your performance and eventually attract investors so they can put some of their coins under of your management in exchange for a fee ? and once you have some investors, will you have the right tools to manage their "money" ? Thats what i believe is the value of the Open Fund Management (OFM) platform, they will provide you the tools to be a "crypto coins fund manager" and if you perform good you can eventually get people to put money under your management in exchange for a fee, just like the old economy fund industry, but much more cheaper, transparent and efficient If your premise above is correct, then the entire fund and hedge fund industry woudn't exist, because you can also create a portfolio of stocks, bonds, derivatives etc etc etc and nobody would need to ever put money in funds. + you speak about today market not offering returns (look at SPX please... just at ATH).
Then if you defend yourself speaking about cryptocurrency market and its volatility, well again, nothing new. Just have a look at all the pennystock everywhere in the world.
It is not really a matter of yield and returns, in my opinion is a matter of worldwide liquidity, all major central banks are pumping huge amounts of cash into the economies in order to get then moving, they are doing it while the world is experiencing negative yields, the SPX movement is just a reflection of this liquidity, but SPX and penny stocks are not even close to be able to absorb this liquidity, the market is eager to new investments opportunities and thats where i think lies the value of the Coin Traded Fund (CTF) and Coin Managed Fund (CMF). Anyway, if someone could explain me the point of iconomi I would be grateful Cheesy
Well i am really new to this cryptocoins market so i am not of much value in terms of analyzing this side of the project (tech, security, structure..etc etc etc) but i have more than 15 years of experience working with investment industry so i tried to give you my view from this side. Of course everything above is easier said than done,but thats the bet here isnt it ?Thats the risk that you have to measure in order to decide to invest or not, i believe a lot in the idea what i am trying to decide right now is if this can become a reality. |
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(...)
bom não vou discutir, já vi que vc é muito bom de teoria ...
A questão é que vc ficou de picuinha com uma frase irônica jogada no final do meu post pra efeito cômico. Então falar agora que "não vai discutir" fica feio pra vc! Tá parecendo esse dai:  Na verdade não fiquei "picuinha" com nada, já tive essa discussão 1 milhão de vezes com os teoricos neo-classicos e já sei que não adianta discutir. Continue lendo livros de economia e teorizando nos posts para parecer inteligente e eu vou continuar no mercado financeiro (como faço a 10 anos) e agora no mercado de cryptocoins explorando as ineficiencias dessas belas teorias. |
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(...)
Trading 101 : A formação de preço no mercado livre sim é função da oferta e demanda, arbitragem entre preços do mesmo ativo em diferentes praças não, eles são anomalias causadas por fatores alheios a oferta e demanda.
A me desculpe, não sabia que o mercado de bitcoin não era livre!  De qualquer forma, dentro de um mesmo mercado, a lei da oferta e demanda continua valendo. Com arbitragem ou não. ela é só mais uma manifestação da oferta e da demanda. O que poderia afetar o preço fora da oferta e da demanda seria interferencia estatal, por exemplo, ou outros fatores que afetem a liberdade do mercado. A segunda frase sua, por outro lado, não faz sentido. Arbitragem é só mais um mecanismo de regulagem de preço num mercado livre. Não existem fatores "alheios a oferta e demanda" envolvidos. Todos são fatores que afetam a oferta e a demanda, e por conseguinte, o preço. bom não vou discutir, já vi que vc é muito bom de teoria ... |
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My thoughts on the whitepaper : What attracts me the most is the Transparent Open Fund Management (OFM) platform, the idea of individuals creating their own investments funds is really powerful, in the old economy although possible it is prohibitively expensive to do so and to attract investors is impossible. For investors into the funds the transparency is another differential and also powerful. But do i think the platform will disrupt the asset management industry ? Unfortunately in my opinion not while the platform allow just position on coins, if at any point in time in the future i am also able to buy other assets through the platform, example i have a portfolio which is short ETH, long S&P500 and short USDJPY, then this have a real potential of disrupting the industry, but i imagine we are far away from this reality at this point, because of regulation. But still it is an idea that i want be in from the start because the successful paths that the platform can take are many, even if the OFM doesn't fly on the short/middle term. Also can't wait to open my own crypto quantitative fund ! You are right. It will be very hard to disrupt classic asset management from the old economy. Regulations, rules and everything. And this world of ours is moving way too fast for the old one to follow at the same pace. Is there any possible situation that my initial stake in the platform gets diluted by any management action ? Like a second round of tokens issue, creation of another form of stake in the platform. If not, how this is guarantee ? |
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Boa Tarde ! Eu venho observando o mercado a um tempo para tentar entender o funcionamento, eu consigo comprar BTC aqui pelo Mercado Bitcoin ou lá fora no Coinbase, comparando o valor do BTC em USD e em Reais, o BTC aqui opera na maior parte de tempo com um premio em relação ao valor da conversão real x dolar, já cheguei a pegar premios de 15% sobre a cotação do dolar.
alguem tem alguma explicação por que ?
Varios motivos: - O mercado tem menos liquidez, então demora mais pra reagir as mudanças de preço - O brasil é importador de bitcoins, ja que não dá pra minerar aqui, então o ajuste do preço é feito pelos arbitradores como vc, que tem uma espectativa de lucro. Ou seja, o bitcoin só chega no mercado nacional se a arbitragem estiver dando lucro. - O maior uso do BTC no brasil é para especulação (que alguns chama de "investimento", e isso engloba tanto "trade" como "hold"), isso desvincula o preço do bitcoin da sua utilidade como moeda, possibilitando esse descasamento. Ou o velho motivo simples: tem mais demanda do que oferta, então o preço sobe! Ter mais demanda do que oferta não é a explicação, para mim é mais uma questão de convertibilidade + custo do que demanda e oferta. Comparando o mercado Bitcoin com o coinBase por exemplo, o mercado bitcoin cobra R$2.9 + 1.99% do deposito e da retirada de Reais via conta corrente (o que eu acho um absurdo), o coinbase para deposito via conta corrente não cobra nada, para mim que tenho a possibilidade de comprar no Brasil ou nos EUA, vale mais a pena mandar reais para os eua depositar no coinbase e comprar po BTC por lá, obviamente a maioria das pessoas não consegue fazer isso , eu acho que o premio de BTC entre USD e BRL é uma questão de convertibilidade. Micro-Economia 101: A única explicação pra qualquer preço é oferta e demanda. O que acontece é que a oferta e a demanda não existem "por acaso", e vc está procurando as causas pra oferta ser menor que a demanda. Tirando isso, comparar o mais caro dos brasileiros com o mais barato dos extrangeiros é sacanagem né? As taxas do MB são absurdamente altas se comparado com qualquer outra exchange brasileira. Varias delas não tem taxa pra depósito e tem taxa de transação e retirada que é menos da metade da cobrada pelo MB. Trading 101 : A formação de preço no mercado livre sim é função da oferta e demanda, arbitragem entre preços do mesmo ativo em diferentes praças não, eles são anomalias causadas por fatores alheios a oferta e demanda. |
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My thoughts on the whitepaper : What attracts me the most is the Transparent Open Fund Management (OFM) platform, the idea of individuals creating their own investments funds is really powerful, in the old economy although possible it is prohibitively expensive to do so and to attract investors is impossible. For investors into the funds the transparency is another differential and also powerful. But do i think the platform will disrupt the asset management industry ? Unfortunately in my opinion not while the platform allow just position on coins, if at any point in time in the future i am also able to buy other assets through the platform, example i have a portfolio which is short ETH, long S&P500 and short USDJPY, then this have a real potential of disrupting the industry, but i imagine we are far away from this reality at this point, because of regulation. But still it is an idea that i want be in from the start because the successful paths that the platform can take are many, even if the OFM doesn't fly on the short/middle term. Also can't wait to open my own crypto quantitative fund ! |
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Qual a plataforma mais barata no Brasil atualmente para se comprar BTC ? Considerando que eu vou transferir dinheiro do banco para a plataforma e depois comprar o BTC ?
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