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Right. Open discussion is fine as long as it's favorable to companies that advertise on bitcointalk.org. Check.
I'd have avoided the part about BFL still advertising like mad without shipping anything if I were you too btw. What kin ya say? Now there's some sketchy business tactics.
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While I'm not at all happy with the way Tom is handling this, I also think the comparisons to pirate are unjustified. Intent is clearly missing as well as most of the harm.
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Umm, he opened it up and took a photo, he posted shots of cgminer output, he posted shots of pool stats, he talked for some time on IRC...all of this after the man left work.
Let it go guys. Avalon shipped it, Jeff received it, and it appears to works as advertised. The only thing I didn't see is a kill-a-watt readout, but he said he'd prepare a review in the near future and presumably it will be included.
How about a thanks Jeff for the awesome effort instead of a Jeff yer a scammer based on absolutely nothing?
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My personal opinion:
Jeff is in the AVALON scam too.
24 hours after he received it, he posts 6 real photos and some shit a kid can do with Photoshop, when he knows there are close to a million $$$ at stake. //ignore |
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Though I'm pleased things have taken a turn for the better, Avalon was behaving in a very unprofessional manner and they had the criticism coming IMO.
Was? Past tense? I was relieved when they postponed the 2nd batch orders. They literally have 1 unit in customer's hands. One. Uno. Lets see a majority of those 300 units shipped, and then talk about a 2nd batch. Interesting. By that logic BFL should immediately suspend new orders until they have SOMETHING shipped. ONE >>>>>> ZERO Well first, BFL isn't doing things in batches like Avalon is. And even if they were, and had only shipped one unit, I'd be saying the same thing. Until there is a large percentage of purchased units in customer's hands, why are they actively pursuing more sales?Just because BFL is a bottomless batch 1 pit makes it okay for them to soak up millions in pre-orders over the course of EIGHT MONTHS without delivering anything but t-shirts and coffee mugs, but bad on Avalon for opening a 2nd batch(900 units total) whilst only having confirmed shipping one working ASIC unit? Blatantly double standard much? I can see how it can sound hypocritical, but that's not the way I intended that to sound. BFL is continuously accepting pre-orders, even tho they haven't shipped yet, I get that. However, Josh's interactions here and on the BFL forums have been large in response to current customers (and trolls, but we won't go there). I haven't seen them actively trying to get new customers. In fact, Josh has said that when their Single do ship, the product will speak for itself. But then we get Avalon, who was supposed to be opening pre-orders for Batch 2, with some very severe stipulations: 1) They had only shipped 1 product to 1 customer. 2) BTC only (aka no cc chargebacks). 3) No refunds, under any circumstance. Those 3 just made it sound a lil fishy, and I was glad when they postponed. Postponing gives #1 time to hopefully fix itself, and maybe they'd consider #2, or at the very least #3. Just because Josh defines nearly everyone that finds fault with BFL as a troll doesn't make it so, regardless how much he blows on advertising. Yes advertising. Just how much *IS* BFL spending to advertise their vaporware before they've shipped anything at all? Wanna bet it's several times what Avalon is spending? ...this despite the fact that Avalon has shipped an ASIC product and BFL well...they do have some boxed up fans, though they're not for sale yet. I don't see a lot of Avalon signatures bought off either...BFL on the other hand... CES? How much was spent for BFL to advertise their non-shipping ASIC products there? Why do they keep pumping the ad budget when they have as many shipping ASICs as I do? Let's at least apply the same standards. I'm also not pleased with Avalon's no refund BTC only policies. |
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Sadly you're not being unreasonable. Plenty of time has passed for Tom to have at the very least told former investors something. Even if he said...dangit I'm broke and need more time it'd be better than the wall of silence act.
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Please keep in mind that the "power hungry beast" from Avalon is the most energy efficient shipping product to ever mine the BTC blockchain...many times more efficient than the GPUs we're currently running. Also keep in mind that the competitor's power estimates are just that, estimates, and they've under estimated power consumption by hundreds of percent in the past.
Thank you for your input.
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Batch 2 order window closed. (postponed)
...presumably they're determining how to maximize damage to BFL.
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Though I'm pleased things have taken a turn for the better, Avalon was behaving in a very unprofessional manner and they had the criticism coming IMO.
Was? Past tense? I was relieved when they postponed the 2nd batch orders. They literally have 1 unit in customer's hands. One. Uno. Lets see a majority of those 300 units shipped, and then talk about a 2nd batch. Interesting. By that logic BFL should immediately suspend new orders until they have SOMETHING shipped. ONE >>>>>> ZERO Well first, BFL isn't doing things in batches like Avalon is. And even if they were, and had only shipped one unit, I'd be saying the same thing. Until there is a large percentage of purchased units in customer's hands, why are they actively pursuing more sales?Just because BFL is a bottomless batch 1 pit makes it okay for them to soak up millions in pre-orders over the course of EIGHT MONTHS without delivering anything but t-shirts and coffee mugs, but bad on Avalon for opening a 2nd batch(900 units total) whilst only having confirmed shipping one working ASIC unit? Blatantly double standard much? |
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China is Communist just in case any of you didn't know! When the USA got in bed with China it was the beginning of the end of the USA. Someone needs to hit the history books. Please open to the chapter that includes information about operation paperclip. Oh wait there isn't such a chapter. The US is hardly the bastion of freedom and defender of fair play your goobermint wants you to believe. |
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That single ASIC hashing on slush is a huge blow to BFL and their customers investors.
How so? [serious question] It's sort of a "proof of concept" having Avalon deploy one working unit so far, which is why I'm largely holding judgement on this issue until more units are in the hands of customers. But I don't think BFL has much to worry about until Avalon takes the lead with orders. Avalon is just showed that they have a working product..so if BFL doesn't kick into gear and get units out the door soon, they're going to be in trouble. Several reasons, some of which you just alluded to. Avalon is now in another league IMO as they're now an ASIC vendor and not a vaporware vendor that used to sell FPGAs. They've now definitively proven themselves to not be a scam. They've also proven beyond any reasonable doubt that they're capable of delivering what they said they could and on the schedule they said they would. BFL has failed to meet any of these criteria. I believe BFL is in trouble now, not just if/when they announce another delay. Meanwhile BTC continues to march north in price vs fiat and opportunity costs for those that sold BTC to pay for ASICs or paid directly for ASICs continue to climb. |
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I'm just curious...what's impossible now? $21.4 is like a bank vault! ...er n/m. |
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You're going to hate the third batch then.   |
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I doubt Tom would be much of a challenge to find if it was a face to face confrontation one sought.
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The plot continues to sicken thicken: ...does someone detect blood in the water? |
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It will depend on BFL having any more delays. If there are no more delays and BFL is able to build and ship quickly enough, they may survive this blow. If they have to delay another couple weeks or a month (with Avalon then opening up batches 3 and 4, no doubt bigger than 1 and 2), I think the demand for refunds would be catastrophic.
Seems about right. Avalon may have shipped one unit so far, but it won't start to actually matter until they start getting pallets out the door at a time. Nevertheless, BFL can't risk falling behind again. I would hate to be Josh's calculator right now.
Lies. You'd love his fingers all over you, wouldn't you? Pushing your buttons and poking all the right places. You disgust me. My goodness that was a good laugh...disturbing..but good. I think you're kidding yourself. That single ASIC hashing on slush is a huge blow to BFL and their customers investors. |
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Though I'm pleased things have taken a turn for the better, Avalon was behaving in a very unprofessional manner and they had the criticism coming IMO.
Was? Past tense? I was relieved when they postponed the 2nd batch orders. They literally have 1 unit in customer's hands. One. Uno. Lets see a majority of those 300 units shipped, and then talk about a 2nd batch. Interesting. By that logic BFL should immediately suspend new orders until they have SOMETHING shipped. ONE >>>>>> ZERO |
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There is no SCAM.
Ah, nice. You must have quite a bit more information at hand than hundreds of the rest of us. Care to explain? The consistency of BitSyncom posts warranted the THERE IS NO SCAM comment. Consistency of a post doesn't mean anything. I could be consistently helpful for a year and then suddenly become an asshole. That doesn't mean I was / will always be right on what I'm saying. I only felt the need to come back and defend myself (since I'm one of those who was a doubter) since the situation up to yesterday was doubtful at best and scammy at worst. A good business leader / marketer/ customer will walk away from this whole mess having learned that: 1.) As a business representative, you shouldn't tell the public one thing and then not live up to it; it breeds distrust. (I'm talking about the live demo) 2.) Doing a second round of orders (100% down) before anyone gets round one is probably a bad idea. We're still in the wildwest of BTC mining here and anything that smells like a scam has to scrutinized for others to know about. 3.) Business reps should not take things personally and get angry over accusations that their product isn't shipping / no one has it yet. The whole lack of tracking numbers / JGarzik not knowing where his package was lead to a lot of people getting concerned over (what has now turned out to be) nothing. Now I have already applauded BitSyncom and team Avalon on shipping their first unit and I look forward to them shipping more units from Batch 1 & 2. However that doesn't mean that my concerns as a customer wasn't warranted or justified; it just means I'm less worried now that there is more proof in the market that their products exist and work. Cavet Emptor ("Buyer Beware") is a motto has served buyers for centuries and will likely do so well into our future. You should consider the feelings of the other side and see that their actions might not have been malicious but actually that of worried current or potential customers. Excellent post. There's nothing you can count on to protect you in this wide open BTC market aside from your own common sense. A large dose of skepticism is a survival necessity here. Though I'm pleased things have taken a turn for the better, Avalon was behaving in a very unprofessional manner and they had the criticism coming IMO. |
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I would hate to be Josh's calculator right now.
Lies. You'd love his fingers all over you, wouldn't you? Pushing your buttons and poking all the right places. You disgust me. LOL That's taking the low road.  Is that a movie quote? Sounds vaguely familiar. |
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Jeff is making ~$180 a day with his ASIC.
And the rest of us aren't. Correct, and that includes those that paid for BFL vaporware products last summer with BTC. Those products look hideously expensive now with BTC over $20. OUCH. |
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