I wonder how they treat an order that starts off with a partial fill as a taker, and subsequently completed with a partial fill as a maker. Do they treat it as 2 separate trades?
yes the first partial one happens instantly. and shows up in trade history the remainder of funds sit on the orderbook until someone else eats (takes) the amount from the order book, so shows as a separate trade on the trade history.
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updated OP and added a new Con
"2MB is still not nearly enough block space to compete with other payment processors like VISA"
Doubling bloc size to 2mb? And your listing that as a con, cos it's not better than visa? FFS. I believe the point is that it wouldn't be a final solution and more work and optimisation would still need to be done in order to achieve similar scalability to other payment methods. Otherwise we're just going to have the same issues later down the line. visa's capacity is only based on 60 years of slow growth to 800million users. why does there have to be equal capacity by 2017?? bitcoin doesnt have 800 million users. i dont think it will get 800million users in 16 months or less so lets base it on bitcoin users (2mill) and make rational judgement of perceived growth slowly at the moment visa stats say that their users do approximately 40 transactions a year (some daily some only monthly) per user http://www.statista.com/statistics/279275/average-credit-card-transaction-volume-per-card-worldwide/so bitcoin has 2million users. making it 80mill transactions buffer needed as a minimum bitcoin does ~2000tx a block, 144 blocks, 365 days a year = 105,120,000tx a year so 1mb can handle 2million people doing an average 50 transactions. or reworded bitcoin at 1mb can handle 2.5million people doing similar transactions as on visa which means 2mb can handle 2mill people doing 100tx each or 5million people doing similar visa card uses. now lets think about 2mb+segwit (2million people 200tx or 10million people doing similar visa trend transactions.) and thats probably going to be available in 2017 then we can calmdown and know over 15 years we can slow grow more (it doesnt need to be visa comparable by 2017) to put it into prospective by 2017 (2mb+segwit) we will be at 10% of paypal or 10% of visa US or 1.25% of visa world wide. which if we had lets say 4mb+segwit in 2020 20%paypal, 20%visa US, 2.5% visa worldwide. then we can look at LN which meant to be 15x more possibilitys (take that number loosly as its based on lauda's numbers) meaning 2mb+segwit+LN = 150% paypal, 150% visa USA and 18.75% visa world wide. 4mb+segwit+LN = 300% paypal, 300% visa USA and 37.5% visa world wide. 8mb+segwit+LN = 600% paypal, 600% visa USA and 75% visa world wide. so atmost 12mb+segwit+LN = 900% paypal, 900%visa USA and 112.5% visa world wide. now we all know 12mb+segwit is actually more like 24mb real data so dont expect to grow to that by 2018-2020. but i can see it easily happening before 2030.. very easily
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my point is. if your using "averages" and then you took an even 50% of the average then yes you would see a double
but randomness is not averaged
for instance the dice game. you may throw it 1296 times but you *may* never get 1 1 1 1 you might however get 1 5 2 6 on three different occassions or another random combination several times. but no guarantee of 1 1 1 1
you are only guaranteed to get it if you dont treat it like random throws but more of a combination look 6666, 6665, 6664... instead of 4625, 2153,2256....
also trying to suggest that an average is a hard rule and use that along with a doubler is wrong. just like saying bitcoin only makes blocks in 10 minutes which turns into 20 minutes is wrong.
the 10minutes is not based on the combined work of the 20 pools. but based on the work of 1 pool who luckily beat his 19 competitors the 2nd place competitor could easily have got a solution just 2 seconds later.. should the first winner not have solved first (not 10 minutes later)
but the reality is a few blocks have been found in 1 minute of each other(402068-402069) meaning that if slushpool had half the hash power instead, it still would not mean it solved that block in 2 minutes instead of 1 (again not quite). because hashrate is not even or average, and doesnt account for a competitor who may have a separate solution in 1minute 20 seconds.
EG F2pool found a block in 7 minutes and then again in 2 minutes. doesnt mean if they had half the hashrate. it could be 14 minutes and 4 minutes(again not quite).
because lets say antpool. making blocks in 1 minute. got kicked off the network. along with eligius pool making 1 block a day. along with bitminter.. and ghash.io.
would any of them impacted BTCC's attempt.. how about F2pools attempt. how about slushes attempts
infact without antpool we could easily have seen F2pool make a block more often in 8-12 minutes because his competition has gone away and no need to stale the attempt mid way.
so the averages and reality do not sit side by side.
infact if BTCC disapears and F2pool disapeared. then antpool would have less competition and able to make more blocks more often all averaging under 10 minutes with the occassional gap to let Bitfury and BW a chance
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miners are free to determine if a block is valid or not by whatever standards they choose. they are by no means forced to accept any block. the majority of miners need to accept the block for this block to be valid. therefore any argument that starts with " if a miner is a bad actor " is not valid. you need to start with " if majority of miners are bad actors ". At best the bad guy miner could cause some disruption during the time it take all the other miners to agree to whatever new rules they need to implement to start ignoring the attackers blocks. these new rules do not need a HF.
is there anything false with this statement?
nope i agree with your statement, infact it adds another level ontop of my statement. because my statement was under the premiss that 64mb blocks were acceptable as standard and that there was little to no code to void a competitors solved block due to malicious bloat. and only code for miners to just ignore or accept malicious transactions within their own attempts of making a block. similar to the 0fee ignore game. some miners ignore transactions without fee's but if a competitor had a block solution and those had tx's without fee's the ignorant miner would still accept its competitors solution. but you are quite right the miners could also reject a block if it does not like the content of their competitors block,
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Premise: - 64MB blocks are allowed - 64MB blocks take over 10 minutes to verify - Someone wants to destroy the network ( 100 million dollar investment ) - Other miners want to let him destroy the network
Conclusion: BITCOIN IS DOOOM!
there's nothing stopping the other miners from orphenning the attackers blocks... if his block give them much inconvenience for whatever reason they will orphen them...
EDIT. my now removed statement was on the bases of a 1mb attack. now lets make it 64mb.. if it takes 10minutes to validate a malicious 1mb. then it takes 640 minutes to validate a 64mb.. and so malicious miner is 638 minutes behind the competitors before it even begins to hash a block, because neutral miners will ignore such stupid transactions just like they ignore 0 fee transactions and make a standard block using more rational size transactions
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I am truly unsettled; I have switched from Core 0.11 to Classic 0.11 to Core 0.12 to Classic 0.12 and it is totally possible/likely I will switch again. Perhaps I will try using more advanced mathematics, above and beyond high school maths. ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif) #0: Reducing unproductive contention in the Bitcoin community is a personal goal. #1: Right now my top interest is in the vulnerability to transactions with lots of inputs that lead to long compute times for verifications. One wonders why we don't see bad actors using this against Bitcoin relentlessly. Maybe there are less malicious folks attacking than I hear about? Maybe the bad guys don't know how much this can hurt? #2: Secondarily I would like to see a concerted effort be made to 1) educate users about setting fees well to facilitate quick confirmations, i.e. to avoid long/painful/anxiety-causing commit times and 2) enhancing wallets to make it automatic and default to have high enough fees. #3: Thirdly; I do highly prefer adoption much more than increasing fees which means to me capacity. Increasing fees will have to come eventually but in the meantime I would happily sacrifice fees until adoption is really widespread. #4: Fourthly; Is there something to the Bitcoin Unlimited stuff? #5: Lastly; all of those other features/functions like transaction malleability, etc. Perhaps these should be higher on my list but I haven't dug into them yet; sorry. With those in mind; block size limit, e.g. 2MB; helps with #3, hurts #1, we should resist doing it just because it seems obvious, obvious is not a reliable attribute SegWit; helps with #3, hurts #1, introduces other complexities that might have subtle consequences limit inputs: all by itself this is great for #1, seems simple enough, workaround is trivial, i.e. create multiple small transactions #0 this can be solved by core adding in the code, to not cause the contention they cry about. then with all the different code bases (btcd, bitcoinj, classic, core, etc) having the code, it is then just a waiting game to see if miners decide to upgrade too knowing all the users are ready to accept such changes. #1 this can be solved by knowing REALISTICALLY the times it actually takes to sort through a transaction with 50 inputs, 100 inputs, 1000 inputs. and then see how many times people have made a genuine(not attack) transaction of such. to set an arbitrary rule to ignore transactions with such amount of inputs, just like they ignore transactions with no fee. #2 1) also educate people how to code/make transactions with least bloat/random use of inputs. to help them decrease their own cost of sending a tx, aswell as helping reduce chances of verification time problems. #2 2) its a little too early to push the transaction fee up.. id say it should be a slow process over years-decades, not a rush job to try making 3000+ transactions every 10 minutes have high fee's meaning the fee naturally increases because there are only 2000 transactions(average) allowed in per block. imagine it. 3000 tx pay 4c.. 2000 get allowed in block1 and 1000 in block2.. then the next 3000 tx only 1000 is in block 2 and 2000 are in block 3. meaning that if the 3rd set of transactions have any hope of getting in block 4 or 5 they are likely to have to pay a premium to fight off competition.. so within 5 blocks the price begins to rise. the fee is not an essential part of mining income. it is just a small bonus. it does not need to, nor should offset the reward for many years. because the reward is part of the mechanism that helps the speculation of the deflationary price(price rise). by flooding miners with lots of coins will make them spend them just as fast which not only affects the valuation of bitcoin. but also pushes miners to add more ASICS, and raising the difficulty. making bitcoin more centralized due to the smaller pools losing the competition. also pushing customers/users away from bitcoin because a fee does not actually guarantee the very next block(no guarantee of confirmation in 10 minutes) pushing the fee has a knock on affect on many aspects. and there is no logic to push it too fast. #3 agreed. allowing twice as much buffer room(2mb) to grow, or even 4x as much buffer room(2mb+segwit) allows for NATURAL SLOW growth without pushing or irritations and without demanding to dev-team for just an extra spoon of buffer every couple months knowing it takes 2 years to get the spoon. #4 i personally am not in BU camp, xt camp, classic camp or core camp. i just want more buffer space without beeding to be spoonfed by developers. BU is the premiss that there needs no hard limit. and miners can set their own preferential soft limits. but best to ask someone(hopefully they reply unbiasedly) who has researched it in more detail #5 i agree it doesnt need to be a classic OR core. it needs both. in combination edit your final sentence answered the #1 for yourself and more elegantly then i did
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Is any of these shows presents bitcoin in positive light? So far I've only seen that they are usually making jokes about bitcoin, or create the illusion that it is mainly used as tool for laundering money or good way to pay ransom. Not to mention totally ironic way bitcoin was mentioned Family Guy and we had rather neutral bitcoin sign in Deadpool. That is all I can think of.
well the goodwife even had the main character (female lawyer) buy it and her son talk about what it is, without much drama https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SohEf5dF45ghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fazu1rgr9ksilicon valley mentioned one of the coders would like to be paid in bitcoin https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqlVU1VWAhwjeopardy didnt even mention drugs, porn or scams either, only mentioning it being a digital decentralized currency https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFnCkxc8tCoas for shows like NCIS:LA, CSI:cyber, blacklist, they are shows about crimes, murder and other stuff. so ofcourse the context of mentioning bitcoin is going to be about the bad stuff.. take a different topic.. .. morphine... a cop show like Chicago PD talks about illegal drug dealers.. but a hospital show Chicago ER talk about how morphine helps people.. same directors, same writers, but different type of show. so if you are a fan of crime thrillers, expect your favourite shows to mention bitcoin negatively. but if you are a comedy/drama fan. then expect something less negative
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the list i linked is not up to date. but it atleast helps to prove that its not just blakclist and the goodwife that mentioned bitcoin
movies such as: Dope also mentioned bitcoin. im sure that bitcoin is mentioned in alot more movies and tv shows. but trying to find a definitive list thats upto date is hard
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and we can also assume that Jason Boyko or Pbmining have a lot of mining power somewhere. He/they have money but they are hiding. Propably have over 200Th/s and living comfortable.
or no mining at all and is just grabbing 200btc from you and handing it out as 0.00x each to thousands of people each day.
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I have all the transactions and emails safe. So I can prove the my case.
good keep them. but be sure to have enough evidence to link his email to his real life name after all it may not be Jason Boyko and MR X can just say 'jason Who?' also this may not be some good news to read. seems like he is a known scammer since 2014 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=885224.0lesson 5. as part of lesson 1 google the name and see if he has a reputation
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its a POBOX/virtual office/drop box address.
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You mean if he is found and yet hasn't paid the lost coins, this someone who found him doesn't get paid still? This is a lot of work ![Grin](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/grin.gif) forgive me but this is how i see it. When finding him, he goes in to the court if he refuses to pay back lost bitcoins. The person will be paid even it takes time, just need to find him to have the a contact. The money I lost is enough to make him go to jail for few years, I think he prefer to pay and not go to the jail. We already know who he is and where he lives, but I need to have a contact with him. This is easy job for the person who knows him ![Wink](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/wink.gif) normally finders fee are 10% so im presuming you handed 200btc to a complete stranger? first of all a lesson for everyone reading this. do not hand any funds to anyone, especially using a non refundable mechanism. if you do not know enough about the person to slap them with a wet fish, face to face, should they do you wrong second lesson if you do find them. make sure you have proof that you owned the originating funds, proof that the scammer owned the destination address and proof that links that person back to you. lesson three if you can prove who they are, prove you sent them funds. you then have to prove what the purpose of the transaction was. many scammers have tried to say that it was a donation. or a gift. which cant be proved .or denied. thus get the proof to show it was not a gift. lesson four. to avoid the headaches of lessons 2 and 3 learn lesson one until your certain
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I guess Blacklist & the "Good wife" are the only series that mentioned Bitcoin .
nope https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Bitcoin_references_in_TV_Showsshow | season | episode | The Good Wife | 3 | 13 | The Simpsons | 25 | 7 | Jeopardy | 30 | 64 | Almost Human | 1 | 6 | Person Of Interest | 3 | 13 | House Of Cards | 2 | 2 | Almost Human | 1 | 13 | Parks and Recreation | 6 | 16 | HBO Silicon Valley | 1 | 3 | The Simpsons | 26 | 1 | Navy CIS LA | 6 | 2 | Supernatural | 10 | 4 | Jeopardy | 31 | 67 | Marry Me | 1 | 12 | Morgan Spurlock Inside Man | 3 | 5 |
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1) More transaction capacity 2) Fixes TX mallaeability 3) New mechanism for adding OPcodes 4) More flexible security model (fraud proofs) 5) Potential bandwidth decrease for SPV nodes.
point 2 will be fixed, yet blockstream introduced RBF as the new way to 'con' merchants. ultimately there is still a problem point 3 actually reduces point 1. its like having a 10 bedroom house each room has a bunk bed. but then you let the neighbours kids take the top bunk. such as the fat kid known as confidential payment codes(250bytes extra bloat per tx). while making your own kids get adopted by the neighbours(sidechains) and you charge them 60cents each time they want to come home for the day, hoping they eventually stay at the neighbours because the family home is too crowded point 5, along with no-witness mode, along with pruned mode reduces the real fullnode count which makes point 4 more of a headache if there are less real honest fullnodes.
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Naively increasing the block size isn't the be all answer. Sure, when the workload (mempool) is just a bunch of classic small transactions with few inputs then it's great for low fees. But when a transaction comes along with a huge number of inputs (innocent or malevolent) it will clog up the works forcing everyone to perform a long computation to verify it. One of these monsters can ruin your day if the calculation takes a significantly longer than 1 block interval. Or does it? So, we're behind for a little while but then we catch up. Or are we saying there are monsters out there that could take hours or even days to verify?
Is there a tendency over time for transactions to become bushier? When the exchange rate is much larger then the Bitcoin amounts in transaction will tend to be smaller. Does this lead to fragmentation?
thats under the assumtion that with a 2mb buffer.. miners will allow themselves to jump to 1.995mb of data instantly. the real assumtion is however just like in 2013. miners knew they suddenly became able to grow passed the 500k bug and utilize the 1mb buffer. but it took a couple years for them to slowly grow, and that was the decision of the miners. we should not leave it to blockstream to set a 1.1mb limit every 2 years knowing that miners will be at the max in maybe 4 months. instead it should be a 2mb buffer and then let the miners have their own separate preferential rules to grow slowly and just ignore obvious spam transactions until they drop out of the mempool after 48 hours. knowing that they can happily grow by 0.1mb very 4months+ without needing to ask blockstream for permission or receive abuse or insults analogy knowing one day you are going to have 19 children in the next xx years(you already have 9 and live in a 10bedroom house). (1.9mb data in x years time, currently at 900k data with a 1mb buffer)would you go through the headache of 2 years of mortgages and legal stuff to get an 11 bedroom house then another 2 years of headaches for a 12 bedroom house or would you: go through one headache and get a 20 bedroom house and then spend the next 20 years impregnating your wife 10 times, slowly gaining a child once every couple years. i know segwit tries to say, lets stay with 10 rooms and fit in some bunkbeds.. so more kids can fit into the 10 rooms. but the problem is that blockstreams other features. like confidential transaction codes. makes all the kids obese with twice the amount of clothing that needs storing too.. so the house becomes overcrowded and slow to get everyone ready in the morning. which leads to blockstream to instead of expanding to a 20 bedroom house. pushes some of the kids to get adopted by the neighbours(sidechains). and only allowed to visit the real family home if they pay rent
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your assumption that quadric wont be solved in april.
True enough, I did assume the same software running on both rasPi2 and 3 (which you did too to get to your 2660 number, so I guess that was fair, no?). Do we want to then make an effort to recalculate the rest using my 2309 number and ignore the question about linear scaling with GHz? we are currently throwing random scenario numbers around. my assumption was rasp2 using old software where quadratics was an issue compared to april rasp3 where it wasnt an issue making not only a ghz performance increase (ill yield to your 2309) but then a multiple gain due to the code efficiency increase what would be best is to use real bitcoin data as the ultimate goal rather then random scenario speculation
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as for the raspberry pi debate RasPi 2. 900mhz 1gm ram
RasPi 3 1.2ghz (33% increase) 1gb ram
33% increase in processing speed in just 1 year.. say rasPi2 could handle 2000 signature verification's every couple minutes.(understatement used for basic maths) rasPi3 can handle 2660 signature verification in the same time.
Wait; that doesn't take into account the quadratic growth aspect. The correct calculation is, if rasPi2 can do 1 sigop in t and 2000²*t in a couple of minutes then rasPi3 can handle 1 sigop in 0.75t (maybe) and so in those same couple of minutes we have to solve; X²*(0.75t) = 2000²*t X=2309 Certainly a nice increase but not 2660. Does sigop verification scale linearly with GHz? your assumption that quadric wont be solved in april. also if 1000 has 33% increase=1333 2000 =2666 so i was using single sig before april(i even bracketed that i understated it for simple maths) and comparing it to scaling after april using technology available in april and code changes after april which make th quadratic debate meaningless but ultimately my maths was simplified so will leave you to do the more detailed maths
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LN whitepaper is based on assumptions?
yep LN code for bitcoin is not really active.. otherwise we would be using it. many coders think of best case scenarios. but hardly ever hack it. even during 2009-2016 the coders say bitcoin works because other people cant hack it, meaning they leave it for others to find out its weaknesses and pretend everything is perfect until a weakness is found.
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with the 1MB blocks currently all full, i seriously doubt thats true.
what happens when a payment channel with 10,000TX needs to be settled on the blockchain?
My statement is wrong (read above). However, the answer to your question is: It needs 1 transaction on-chain (to close the channel). 30 million users making a transaction..each.. ONCHAIN to lock their funds into LN then 1 transaction ONCHAIN filled with 30million-60million outputs to settle the balances with the destination while also returning the 'change' to the originator meaning atleast 2 outputs. destination and origin, for every input. now do the maths
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