My intention is to put one of these trifold brochures on every chair in the three speaker areas at the Texas Bitcoin Conference early in the morning on March 6 if you do this, organizator will collect them all in 5 minutes. It is not allowed to use conf areas for non paid ads Then I will just have to figure out another way to distribute them once they are printed. Perhaps I can arrange for (cute female?) handout personnel at the doors when they open. Certainly we need printed handout materials for the four conferences we are going to have reps at over the next six weeks. My request for funding stands. I think in April (New York, Toronto) Nxt will look so different, that we will need new materials and text at that time. nxt.org, new branding resources from Damelon's friends.. So how much would cost a cute female? Who will hire her for all events and will she have tickets also to get in? I am more concerned about whether or not your NXT marketing fund will pay as a conference expense for any handout brochures at Texas Bitcoin Conference. Cost is 2000 for $526 (10K NXT) or 5000 for $723 (14K NXT). Basically $197 more gets 3000 extra brochures for San Francisco. My NXT account for receiving these funds and allowing me to pay the printer this week would be 16092180239932658439. Your decision? |
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THIS is why I pushed for there to be a separate infrastructure fund committee, to figure this stuff out ahead of time and prepare for it.
- infrastructure fund will lead to centralization. It is a task for developers (like BCNext, C-f-B and CIYAM) to figure this stuff out and make the forging profitable for many people, not only to those sponsored by fund. My gut feeling is that forging NXT will never be profitable for anybody. Somebody show me I'm full of crap. The real centralization that is going to occur is that as more and more people become interested in NXT, more and more NXT forging power will become concentrated in exchanges like Cryptsy. If anybody is going to make a profit forging NXT, it's going to be Cryptsy when they finally bring NXT trading online. Yeah, yeah, I know that decentralized exchanges will kick in after that. NXT and its network structure is going to go through several incarnations. all of them are goin to have to work with a seamless handoff between them. And we cannot forsee this evolution, just try to manage it as best we can as it happens. In a decentralized way. This should be very interesting to watch, and quite a challenge. The ultimate success of NXT is far from guaranteed. It is a currency whose support and even existence depends on a sense of civic responsibility, not just the pure greed behind Bitcoin mining. |
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NXT FUNDING COMMITTEE VOTE IS COMING MARCH 1Remaining eligible nominees with as-yet undeclared intentions (PM me if you want off this list): ^[GS]^, 2Kool4Skewl, Arckam_(frmelin), bitcoinpaul, buybitcoinscanada
ChuckOne, Cointropolis_JustabitTime, Come-from-Beyond
Damelon, davethetrousers, drevil, EvilDave, ferment, Fry, hughmanwho, Jean-Luc,
jl777, Klee, landomata, laowai80, msin, mww
nexern, opticalcarrier, Pandaisftw, PeercoinEnthusiast, pinarello, Pouncer, Ricot, salsacz
SecondLeo, smaragda, Uniqueorn, VanBreuk, ZeroTheGreat
Something Zahlen said: A candidate does not need to be good at writing English. Some candidates may not have English as their mother tongue. If you're voting, don't confuse lots of writing for ability to judge the worth of a project. Remember that ultimately the committee's job is to decide which projects get funded. If you are on this list and want to be on a NXT funding committee, go here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=479167.msg5280476#msg5280476Background: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=345619.msg5280786#msg5280786Good luck to these nominees who have declared themselves candidates:
NXTmarketingfund: allwelder, Damelon, Mario123, Asian Prepper, joefox, brooklynbct, CoinTropolis_NiftyNikel
NXTtechdevfund: EmoneyRu, Anon136, l8orre, abuelau, chanc3r
NXTinfrastructurefund: rickyjames
Yeah, you may have seen this before. I'll be putting it up every ten pages or so. It's one of those "legitimate, transparent process" things.
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I see no problem here. If a part of the stake becomes seized then the network will start forging with another part.
The question is "forging with what"? If let's say 100 powerful machines are shut down by an authority and the majority of stake holders are "rich old men" who aren't that technically savvy then you are now running a network of maybe a few thousand desktop computers (or even less powerful devices) that are run by hobbyists and that is not going to do 1000+ TPS. I am not saying the network would *die* but that it would be *seriously damaged* in terms of the TPS it could process and that in itself could cause *panic*. 1000 tps processing requires mid-level hosting hardware. Still see no problem. THIS is why I pushed for there to be a separate infrastructure fund committee, to figure this stuff out ahead of time and prepare for it. |
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You have completely missed the point - once our "much hyped" 1000+ TPS has been slowed down to 10 TPS people are going to dump NXT and run (making the network even more fragile) rather than "go out and by a powerful computer to help restore the network" and that could turn out to be a catastrophic event.
Who says you need powerful computers to forge? And 1000+ TPS is pure marketing. There is no way in hell Nxt is getting anywhere close to that amount of transactions in the next 5 years. If you build it, they will come. |
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My intention is to put one of these trifold brochures on every chair in the three speaker areas at the Texas Bitcoin Conference early in the morning on March 6 if you do this, organizator will collect them all in 5 minutes. It is not allowed to use conf areas for non paid ads Then I will just have to figure out another way to distribute them once they are printed. Perhaps I can arrange for (cute female?) handout personnel at the doors when they open. Certainly we need printed handout materials for the four conferences we are going to have reps at over the next six weeks. My request for funding stands. |
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@ Salsacz: I would like to officially request 15K NXT from the conference support section of your marketing fund. I intend to use these funds to print up handout materials for the Texas Bitcoin Conference, with leftover copies from Austin sent on to NXT reps for the San Francisco, New York and Toronto Bitcoin conventions in the next few weeks. My NXT account for receiving these funds would be 16092180239932658439. I have previously posted the proposed text for this brochure here for review, and have incorporated suggested changes. See https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=345619.msg5245021#msg5245021. I have designed a full color NXT trifold brochure that I would like to have printed in Austin and pickup there on Tuesday evening March 4. I have priced it with CC West Printing Office ( http://ccwestprinting.com) in Austin and their price is 2000 for $526 or 5000 for $723. Their price is so good for 5000 that I want to order that many. Turn time is 3 days, so I have to get the final copy to them Thursday Feb 27. I will post a PDF receipt for this marketing expenditure on the site here as part of an audit trail. I will post a link to a PDF here on the site of the final trifold brochure copy I send CC West before I go to Austin so anybody can download it and use it locally. My intention is to put one of these trifold brochures on every chair in the three speaker areas at the Texas Bitcoin Conference early in the morning on March 6, then go around at the end of the day and pick up any leftovers. I will then mail unused NXT brochures to whoever is going to the San Francisco conference for their use. They can keep mailing these brochures forward to each NXT rep at each upcoming conference until they are gone. Then maybe we can print more, we'll see. Thanks, Salsa!
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NXT FUNDING COMMITTEE VOTE IS COMING MARCH 1Remaining eligible nominees with as-yet undeclared intentions (PM me if you want off this list): ^[GS]^, 2Kool4Skewl, Arckam_(frmelin), bitcoinpaul, buybitcoinscanada
ChuckOne, CIYAM Open, Cointropolis_JustabitTime, Come-from-Beyond
Damelon, davethetrousers, drevil, EvilDave, ferment, Fry, hughmanwho, Jean-Luc,
jl777, Klee, landomata, laowai80, msin, mww
nexern, opticalcarrier, Pandaisftw, PeercoinEnthusiast, pinarello, Pouncer, Ricot, salsacz
SecondLeo, smaragda, Uniqueorn, VanBreuk, ZeroTheGreat
Something Zahlen said: A candidate does not need to be good at writing English. Some candidates may not have English as their mother tongue. If you're voting, don't confuse lots of writing for ability to judge the worth of a project. Remember that ultimately the committee's job is to decide which projects get funded. If you are on this list and want to be on a NXT funding committee, go here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=479167.msg5280476#msg5280476Background: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=345619.msg5280786#msg5280786Good luck to these nominees who have declared themselves candidates:
NXTmarketingfund: allwelder, Damelon, Mario123, Asian Prepper, joefox, brooklynbct, CoinTropolis_NiftyNikel
NXTtechdevfund: EmoneyRu, Anon136, l8orre, abuelau, chanc3r
NXTinfrastructurefund: rickyjames
Yeah, you may have seen this before. I'll be putting it up every ten pages or so. It's one of those "legitimate, transparent process" things.
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You know how I know BCNext is not a native English speaker? A native English speaker never would have used the word "forge" positively in connection with currency.
+1000. This is a real problem for anybody learning about NXT for the first time. There is a valid and legitimate use in English for "forger" as being "one who heats and works metal", like a blacksmith. But the FAR MORE COMMON use of "forger" in English is "one who creates fake documents, particularly financial ones". |
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I...STILL...DON'T....GET....IT.
Unlike Bitcoin, unlike DOGE, unlike all the other crap coins that are out there that I ran away from to get here, NXT IS A ZERO SUM GAME. There are no new coins being created. A coin that goes in one NXT forger's pocket has to come out of another NXTer's pocket, either from a NXT transaction fee payer's pocketor from another NXT forger's pocket. HAS TO.
So for ANY scheme is concocted that pools NXT to forge, IF that scheme claims a pool member will get some LARGER proportion of forged coins than they would get from a true 100% Proof of Stake system that NXT runs by now, THEN BY DEFINITION some other pool member is getting a SMALLER proportion than they would by acting alone. So explain to me who is getting shafted under this new scheme?
Not that your explanation matters, because with falling transaction fees, I doubt anybody can profitably support amortizing the purchase cost of a forging node and its electricity costs under ANY scheme, including the one NXT is operating under right now.
You wanna mine free coins and get rich, go see DOGE. You wanna try to experiment and create a more sustainable system that faces bigger challenges than it seems at first glance, stick around for this fun roller coaster ride called NXT.
ok i just trying to help I'm not saying you can't help and I want you to stick around and try to help. I'm just saying that I am a numbers guy and I would appreciate seeing the full picture of who gets more rewards and who gets less under any idea you propose. |
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I just don't get it. Sure, these pictures have an emotional appeal, because now all the cute kids can see over the fence. So what? Math is math. You've got people who come to NXT with a mining mentality. Eventually they realize that Proof of Stake means they can't get a super-fast machine that gives them an advantage over everybody else and put a whole bunch of newly minted coins in their pocket. They are understandably disappointed. So they turn from a mining rig to the other tool of the mining trade, a pool. So now they're going to pool their NXT with others to be in a group that generates blocks more often than they could alone. My big question: how do they get more money from a pool than they would get forging on their own? By the time you do all the division of fees back out to give the fair share to all of the pool members, isn't it the exact same return on investment they would get forging on their own and adding blocks less often? THERE ARE NO NEW NXT COINS BEING CREATED FROM NOTHING, AS BITCOIN DOES. Forging is just a recycle of existing coins. So aren't pools just another level of "shell" in a "shell game"? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shell_game <lots of words> I...STILL...DON'T....GET....IT. Unlike Bitcoin, unlike DOGE, unlike all the other crap coins that are out there that I ran away from to get here, NXT IS A ZERO SUM GAME. There are no new coins being created. A coin that goes in one NXT forger's pocket has to come out of another NXTer's pocket, either from a NXT transaction fee payer's pocketor from another NXT forger's pocket. HAS TO. So for ANY scheme is concocted that pools NXT to forge, IF that scheme claims a pool member will get some LARGER proportion of forged coins than they would get from a true 100% Proof of Stake system that NXT runs by now, THEN BY DEFINITION some other pool member is getting a SMALLER proportion than they would by acting alone. So explain to me who is getting shafted under this new scheme? Not that your explanation matters, because with falling transaction fees, I doubt anybody can profitably support amortizing the purchase cost of a forging node and its electricity costs under ANY scheme, including the one NXT is operating under right now. You wanna mine free coins and get rich, go see DOGE. You wanna try to experiment and create a more sustainable system that faces bigger challenges than it seems at first glance, stick around for this fun roller coaster ride called NXT. |
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I dont see how this would increase forging with smaller account. unless I am missing something.
If you have one NXT and 999,999,999 others have one nxt, your chances of forging a block are pretty small.
forging is important, it will keep the network decentralized.
The idea is simply to make it more likely that even a forging account with 1 NXT has a pretty good chance. Ok, good for her. Now...she made enough where she can pay for her node forge rig and the electricity to run it? No matter what system decides decide who forges, at one minute per block only 1440 people are going to forge a block in a day. NXT currently has over 5000 users, at least. A perfectly fair "stake of membership" plan for the current NXT membership means they only get to forge a block every four days, and that time gets longer the more people join. I say our female forger should man up to just what a 100% Proof of Stake "coin" really means, and get with the program of figuring out what is required to make it work. Step one is to rid one's self of the mining "get-rich-quick" mentality, and the socialist "it needs to be more fair" mentality. Step two is get over to an exchange and BUY SOME STAKE. |
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Nxt is not about mining mentality.
+1. What happened to forging, not mining? I thought we were over it by now. My opinion is that although to some it *seems* that it is not fair, it only means it is not *get rich quick as some believed*. Why would we want to rollback with something like that? +2. But NXT is going to have to struggle with slower growth rate and lower popularity because of this. |
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We already have it - any account with 1 NXT can forge. Odds to find a block is another question.
The purpose of my proposal is to "change the odds" (in favour of the small stake holder). The result of your proposal would be to make NXT no longer a 100% Proof of Stake (PoS) coin as it is today. Your proposal would "change" NXT into some kind of "odd" hybrid PoS coin that gave small stake holders greater power to influence the blockchain. |
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I just don't get it. Sure, these pictures have an emotional appeal, because now all the cute kids can see over the fence. So what? Math is math. You've got people who come to NXT with a mining mentality. Eventually they realize that Proof of Stake means they can't get a super-fast machine that gives them an advantage over everybody else and put a whole bunch of newly minted coins in their pocket. They are understandably disappointed. So they turn from a mining rig to the other tool of the mining trade, a pool. So now they're going to pool their NXT with others to be in a group that generates blocks more often than they could alone. My big question: how do they get more money from a pool than they would get forging on their own? By the time you do all the division of fees back out to give the fair share to all of the pool members, isn't it the exact same return on investment they would get forging on their own and adding blocks less often? THERE ARE NO NEW NXT COINS BEING CREATED FROM NOTHING, AS BITCOIN DOES. Forging is just a recycle of existing coins. So aren't pools just another level of "shell" in a "shell game"? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shell_game |
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I've been doing some thinking about Nxt, and would like to make a guess at the third part of BCNext's plan:
The minimum transaction fee for Nxt must be set to zero, OR (far less likely) the process of awarding fees for forging must be removed completely.
Nxt services already operate on top of nodes, so the network is secured and the blockchain is maintained as a consequence of the service's existence. Value is created at layers above the Nxt core, and "forging-only" nodes become valueless and therefore obsolete.
The only way to allow 100% availability is to remove the dependence on a minimum transaction fee, and move the profit/reward for the service up into the same layer at which the service is offered.
I believe that one element of BCNext's plan is to set the minimum transaction fee to zero.
Whether this is part of The Plan or not, falling fee costs is going to happen on its own by selective pressure. Cheaper fees will create greater demands for services and the logical conclusion is fees approach zero or get there. The real problem is that there is practically zero financial incentive now for running a node forging NXT, and that financial incentive is only going to get worse. Running the node backbone net is thus going to become more and more of a civic duty rather than pay-its-own-way. Actually, it probably already is that way. We set up all those VPS nodes back in December during the DDoS attack and only now are the true costs coming to light. Many of those operators are now saying they can't keep running their VPSs out of personal funds forever. This is why I want to be in the infrastructure committee. We have got to figure out how to set up the cheapest possible coordinated (rather than patchwork) network that can support higher and higher TPS, and we need to figure that out sooner rather than later. I think this is an underappreciated problem and an interesting challenge. |
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NXT FUNDING COMMITTEE VOTE IS COMING MARCH 1Remaining eligible nominees with as-yet undeclared intentions (PM me if you want off this list): ^[GS]^, 2Kool4Skewl, Arckam_(frmelin), bitcoinpaul, buybitcoinscanada
Chanc3r, ChuckOne, CIYAM Open, Cointropolis_JustabitTime, Come-from-Beyond
Damelon, davethetrousers, drevil, EvilDave, ferment, Fry, hughmanwho, Jean-Luc,
jl777, Kattywampus, Klee, landomata, laowai80, msin, mww
nexern, opticalcarrier, Pandaisftw, PeercoinEnthusiast, pinarello, Pouncer, Ricot, salsacz
SecondLeo, smaragda, Uniqueorn, VanBreuk, ZeroTheGreat
Something Zahlen said: A candidate does not need to be good at writing English. Some candidates may not have English as their mother tongue. If you're voting, don't confuse lots of writing for ability to judge the worth of a project. Remember that ultimately the committee's job is to decide which projects get funded. If you are on this list and want to be on a NXT funding committee, go here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=479167.msg5280476#msg5280476Background: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=345619.msg5280786#msg5280786Good luck to these nominees who have declared themselves candidates:
NXTmarketingfund: allwelder, Damelon, Mario123, Asian Prepper, joefox, brooklynbct
NXTtechdevfund: EmoneyRu, Anon136, l8orre, abuelau
NXTinfrastructurefund: rickyjames
Yeah, you may have seen this before. I'll be putting it up every ten pages or so. It's one of those "legitimate, transparent process" things.
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OK, so someone should start a wiki section for this, and proposals should be sent to .... for review?
Maybe. No One Above Us to tell what to do. I'm always available, tho, to stand beside you and tell you what to do in a rush of hot air coming out of my big mouth.  |
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all of us,please come here vote for Nxt to let the btc38(an exchange platform of China) add Nxt to their database. http://www.coin38.org/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=1672It is a good chance for Nxt promotion. Nxt is on the 18 floor. edit:new user need to change the avatar first. TKS. +1 on this. btc38 is a BIG DEAL in China. It would be as big as getting on Cryptsy. Access the link in Chrome for automatic English translation. |
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NXT FUNDING COMMITTEE VOTE IS COMING MARCH 1Eligible nominees: ^[GS]^, 2Kool4Skewl, abuelau, Allwelder , Anon136
Arckam_(frmelin), bitcoinpaul, bloodyrookie, brooklynbtc, buybitcoinscanada
Chanc3r, ChuckOne, CIYAM Open, Cointropolis_JustabitTime, Come-from-Beyond
Damelon, davethetrousers, drevil, EmoneyRu, EvilDave
ferment, Fry, hughmanwho, Jean-Luc, brooklynbtc
jl777, Joefox, Kattywampus, Klee, l8orre
landomata,laowai80, Mario123, msin, mww
nextern, opticalcarrier, Pandaisftw, Passion_ltc, PeercoinEnthusiast
pinarello, Pouncer, rickyjames, Ricot, salsacz
SecondLeo, smaragda, Asian Prepper, TwinWinNerD, Uniqueorn
Utopianfuture, VanBreuk, Wesleyh, Zahlen, ZeroTheGreat
If you are on this list and want to be on a NXT funding committee, go here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=479167.msg5280476#msg5280476Background: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=345619.msg5280786#msg5280786Good luck to these nominees who have declared themselves candidates:
NXTmarketingfund: allwelder, Damelon, Mario123
NXTtechdevfund: EmoneyRu
NXTinfrastructurefund: rickyjames
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