Except that the market isn't there for it, so third parties aren't doing it effectively, yet. Since that is the case, we have to focus efforts on getting one easy-to-use, easy to obtain and install, and well-maintained GUI out there.
I'd say the same thing about exchanges or anything else if no one were providing the service (in fact I sort of did that with the OTC trading thread in the very early days of Monero).
With greater adoption and scale (including liquidity and market cap), more third parties will be able to effectively provide these products, and they will likely do it better because they will be able to specialize on different feature tradeoffs and particular market segments (including grandmas), but until then we have to fill the gap with something reasonably suitable for a generic "user" if we want to get anywhere.
But such a solution already exists. MyMonero is already much simpler than downloading the core software and running a node, even with a bundled GUI. Why would grandma (or any "generic user") need the core GUI over MyMonero? Who does it really serve? |
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Let me link Grandma to anything other than a official supported easy to use GUI and see what happens.
I doubt Grandma will ever run her own node, regardless of GUI. In the CryptoFuture, I imagine Grandma will use a third-party solution specifically designed for grandmas  EDIT: or she will just enter her PIN at the register after the point-of-sale machine connects to her NFC powered keyring wallet. No GUI required. If you've read any of my posts, you can probably tell I'm a big, big fan of user experience and accessibility. I just don't think it has much place in the core software, as it will ultimately not be a user end-point. |
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EDIT: for example, Poloniex doesn't need an XMR GUI to offer users a robust and intuitive crypto exchange... and XMR.TO and Shapeshift don't need an XMR GUI to offer users quick and easy btc conversion. Except that is completely wrong. Poloniex can't offer a robust and intuitive crypto exchange for XMR unless users have the ability to withdraw their coins in a manner consistent with the skill and comfort level. The same applies to all of the others more or less (less so for MyMonero). It is also the case that spending coins left on an exchange, while possible, is inconvenient. Part of the appeal of a private store of value is that you can actually store it yourself under your own control. Only then can you proceed to use it by spending it (which in turn makes it attractive to offer services to people using Monero as a private store of value), but not before. Without a GUI many potential users can't do either. I'm not sure exactly what you're disagreeing with. I'm not saying GUI's aren't important. I'm saying they're products that should be left to third parties and are largely outside the scope of what the core software should include. |
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A GUI by itself will do little for adoption.
Except in the case of Monero - where it has taken so long that it's the equivalent of Duke Nukem Forever, and people that had no interest in the coin at all will just be amazed if it actually comes out and download it just to see what the hell it is. I get that you're (probably) joking, but it's still worth noting that DNF was a product (and a much hyped one at that) designed for the end user, whereas cryptocurrencies are protocols ultimately intended for integration into other systems and services. |
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I'm afraid I can't agree. It will help facilitate that adoption by giving people (including people outside the cryptosphere) something to download that is easier to use. Without that such efforts face a very uphill battle. You could possibly reach beyond the cryptposhere to other sys admis, software developers, etc. who are comfortable with command line tool, but that's a narrow market with little obvious attraction to alternative monetary systems.
I think we disagree on what Monero is in scope. I see it as a protocol for third parties to leverage and use in their products and services, and not (ultimately) as something the end user will ever need to download and run independently. Hardware and software wallets will be third party tools of various flavors depending on the needs of the user, but none of which require the user to download core Monero binaries to use. It will help facilitate that adoption by giving people (including people outside the cryptosphere) something to download that is easier to use.
I'm saying that people have no reason to download and use the core software unless it's part of a product or service that gives them a good reason to use it. EDIT: for example, Poloniex doesn't need an XMR GUI to offer users a robust and intuitive crypto exchange... and XMR.TO and Shapeshift don't need an XMR GUI to offer users quick and easy btc conversion. MyMonero doesn't require a bundled GUI to offer its own simple web wallet service. It's services like those that ultimately attract users, not core implementations that end-users will never bother with anyway |
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A GUI by itself will do little for adoption.
What will? Services and tools that are useful on their own. I still think a centralized messaging/payments app would be very helpful (assuming it's done right). |
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Gui will help adoption period there are no arguments that are sound against that.
I disagree completely. There are plenty of reasonable arguments against that, the biggest of which is that a bundled GUI will do nothing to attract adoption outside of the cryptosphere, and almost everyone inside the cryptosphere is already aware of Monero and can use it if they want to. A GUI by itself will do little for adoption. |
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Ease of use cuts both ways, EG when Polo is down from DDOS or too many users, or you are a user in New York State/Venezuela/Iran.
Convenience cuts both ways, EG when Polo demands to sequence a stool sample to authorize withdrawls (but not deposits of course) or when they get hacked/Goxxed.
Bitsquare only very recently got to the holy grail of a decentralized exchange.
Absent .gov crackdowns, they won't replace centralized exchanges soon(tm), but in a few years I expect to run Bitsquare on my phone (natively or possibly linked to a VPS backend like Mininero).
Agreed that decentralized exchanges are an important check against escalating KYC policies. I also wouldn't be surprised if govt regulation on crypto slowed down as a result of increased use of these systems. I also expect fees on traditional exchanges to increase as large traders will be willing to risk less capital in favor of the security of the alternatives. |
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When Bitsquare grows to include lending/margin markets and Tether, why would anyone want to put up with Polo's counterparty risk, trading fees, KYC/AMA, and PG rated troll box?
The answer, as always, is convenience and ease of use. Bitsquare requires users to run their own wallet software, where Poloniex is just a website that you can log into and trade. I don't see centralized exchanges going anywhere soon. |
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Step 1) Open a short position in XMR
Step 2) Come to speculation thread and get "mad" about something
Step 3) Tell everyone you found an exploit/breakthrough/whatever and XMR is about to be "REKT"
Step 4) Profit
Sound familiar?
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To be honest I think the GUI will have as much effect on the price of monero as tiddlywinks has on the price of wheat.
Yep. Aside from the few bitcointalk users avoiding the CLI, a bundled GUI achieves little for outside adoption. What will be more helpful are apps and third party tools that make privacy sacrifices but achieve better performance and reach a broader user base. Think centralized messenger apps that can handle XMR payments between contacts. Get the currency out there. Those interested in privacy can still run their linux boxes with full nodes. |
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Are you guys really doing TA on charts that have a 1-2 BTC daily volume to try to find good news? Anything to fit your delusional narrative I guess.
It's just convenient to use that pair since the site does the charting for you. You get a virtually identical chart using the prices from XMR/BTC and DASH/BTC and dividing. Except for the part where xmr lost like 40% of its value over the course of a few days and still has yet to recover. This xmr pump is over, smart people made their money. I will buy back in at another 50% drop to get ready for the next pump in a few months. How does that have anything to do with your original statement, to which smooth was responding? |
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While you're at it, please demonstrate the presence of significant botnet mining in Monero, and also explain in detail how it negatively impacts Monero users. I eagerly await your reply.
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as usual u all assume that monero will perform as advertised. even if it does, dozen of other more capable and popular coin are implementing anonymity too.
so, i still think that monero could be irrelevant in few years if there is no improvement.
You're clearly an imposter, and your FUD tactics aren't fooling anyone. If you actually believed your own bullshit, you'd at least attempt to explain your position, such as why Monero wouldn't "perform as advertised" (please explain in technical detail), which currencies are "more capable" and why, and how they could simply "implement anonymity" (without breaking their social contract, or rewriting the entire protocol, among other concerns). I think (qualified) criticism is helpful, and I'll happily back off when you start explaining your broad assertions. |
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in short, Xmr really really need to improve, old hype of gimmick anonimity alone will soon fade away. because only few people need superior anonimity, those are Terorist, drug dealer, tax evader, and kid molester and other horrible stuff while ordinary humble religious law abiding citizen only need to able to use their money easily without the hassle of Command line wallet  . yo will need to pimp your wallet that user can use it intuitively. Gee, where have I heard this before? Oh right: "How will privacy and anonymity be attacked?"
...
like so many other "computer hacker" items, as a tool for the "Four Horsemen": drug-dealers, money-launderers, terrorists, and pedophiles.
or maybe it was here: The use of encryption by ‘evil’ groups, such as child pornographer, terrorists, abortionists, abortion protestors, etc., is cited by those who wish to limit civilian access to crypto tools. We call these the ‘Four Horsemen of the Infocalypse,’ as they are so often cited as the reason why ordinary citizen–units of the nation–state are not to have access to crypto [graphy].
You're posturing as an ignorant Monero critic, but I think it's clear what your true intentions are. |
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...lot of this community is so full of shit. If you want people to eat the shit you are trying to shovel them, tone it down a bit closer to reality.
Slow and steady wins the race. No need to pump (and dump) constantly.
Said every bitcoin loser in 2013, right before history was made. |
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If you're looking for an exchange, Poloniex.com has the best liquidity. If you just want to buy some XMR with BTC at close to the market rate, check out shapeshift.io.
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Now that's not fair. I repeatedly said an honest and fair price for Monero is about $4 to $5 by this fall. I think next year we may see $40. I think by 2020 we will see $2000, and by 2030 we may see $100,000+.
That's assuming continued development and adoption. If those conditions are met, these estimates are quite reasonable. Of course you need to remember that I am just a guy with opinions, some of which may be wrong. As well, I always stress that nothing moves up in a straight line - we will have many corrections and rocketships on our way up, many of which will be unpredictable.
This is exactly and certainly the kind of shit you are saying that was referring r0ach. How can you say such bullshit? What is your bid for year 2500 or 3000? Are you some kind of fortune teller who knows better than anyone else what the future brings? You could say AP's predictions are foolish, but calling them "bullshit" makes you no less foolish. |
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I personally think anyone trading altcoins this close to BTC halving is insane, but that's just my opinion, man.
I think a lot of bitcoin speculators will be badly burned in July, as everyone seems so sure the price is going to increase with the halving. In reality, I expect the BTC price to plummet as miners abandon ship en masse.I doubt miners will abandon ship, unless there is a price drop first. The argument that much of the mining is recent-gen ASICs that are mining at <0.5 BTC variable costs per BTC is reasonable.I'm not suggesting a loss in hash rate would cause the price drop. I'm saying the halving will mark the end of domestic (non-chinese) mining at any significant scale. Miners with a dramatically lower cost per BTC will price everyone else out of the market. |
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I personally think anyone trading altcoins this close to BTC halving is insane, but that's just my opinion, man.
I think a lot of bitcoin speculators will be badly burned in July, as everyone seems so sure the price is going to increase with the halving. In reality, I expect the BTC price to plummet as miners abandon ship en masse.I do agree with you, however, that the delusion will certainly steal some thunder from the alt scene (at least at first). |
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