How can we see the reconciliation page which shows the charitable income and expenses?
http://accountability.biblepay.org/On left side, Accountability will show you Expenses and Revenue submenu. Also note that the date sorting is opposite. One is ascending and the other is descending by date. A little confusing, but its all there. Also, please try Business Objects | Expense | List from the core wallet. And also, Revenue List. Also- exec theymos. |
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Fixed in the next version; we now respect the non-biblepay-team-percentage spork, and will not show the warning.
So can I disregard this warning and stay with non biblepay team ? Or need to wait for the fix? Yes, please disregard the warning. We should also have a report in the pool also to show all members not in team biblepay : Reports | Superblock View | Superblock View Non Biblepay |
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I thought the team limit removed, I changed team and I am getting this:
Warning": "CPID xxxxxx not in team Biblepay. This CPID is not receiving rewards for cancer research.
This is a client display bug, (error is hardcoded into the client). Check PODC Status page for more current info Edit: What is the command you're running and getting this error from? getboincinfo on Linux wallet version: 1.1.5.9 EDIT: same for 1.1.6.1 on Linux, I don't have GUI. Fixed in the next version; we now respect the non-biblepay-team-percentage spork, and will not show the warning. |
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Let's all please start posting testnet issues in the testnet thread. We don't want investors thinking we are working on problems with the prod version here in our prod thread.
This thread is for PROD. NOT FOR TESTNET.TestNet POG URL: https://forum.biblepay.org/index.php?topic=335.75 |
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how you get 8%?
20% POW
80% POG = variableX
that 8% i suppose is 10% from 80%, right? (X:(WEIGHT*10))
TIER 1 is block or block has 16 TIERS?
8 % is as you proposed Each block rewards one tier. My windows 64 wallet crashed too. Could you post debug.log or email me? Thanks immensely for helping out. The log is not revealing; however 2 things need fixed in testnet so we will need to re-test anyway. If this resurfaces please see if you can find a way to replicate the crash and then we can replicate those steps in linux in debug mode or valgrind. New version should be available by the end of the night. |
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how you get 8%?
20% POW
80% POG = variableX
that 8% i suppose is 10% from 80%, right? (X:(WEIGHT*10))
TIER 1 is block or block has 16 TIERS?
Please post testnet POG issues in the POG testnet thread. |
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For few days running more than 10 GB of data send and received by wallet. I can make a 7 days test and past here the exact numbers.
I'lll look at my wallets and compare. Overall it's because we require full chain for each node (and each node sends/receives to each other). My main wallet has been up 7 days and sent 9gb received 450mb Looking at connected clients it seems a lot more is sent than received, but again this is chain data. Passing it along to other nodes Rob: Is there a way to limit this? Well first the big elephant in the room is if you expose your node to the internet (IE become a full node). If you want to be a private node just turn off the routers port forwarding for 40000. Since we support UPNP its possible we forwarded the thing for you. That should be night & day (IE 90% of the bandwidth is consumed by nodes accepting inbound connections). Once you determine the baseline for public vs private node, then we can go from there (IE we need to know what the person is referring to). |
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if i understood it, then 100% cpu mining i needed only if you want reward for finding blocks. in other cases, you just need tithe something and then waiting in idle for reward (or very very low cpu set to mining as now with gen=1)
My question is mainly if the running wallet will permanently downloading and sending huge amount of data as it is now with running wallet. Yes it will be connected, downloading blockchain data. You already had at least 1 doing this previously. As far as the CPU you don't need the 100% unless you really want to do POW (pobh) as well. Right and I don't mind going down this rabbit hole a little more and elaborating, because the last thing I want to do is give anyone the impression we would be going back to something old and broken, not the case at all. The POBH algorithm itself is solid, its chained bible verses being solved on a CPU. The things we did with it back then were the things that got exploited. Remember when you talk about massive data going up and down the pipe your probably referring to the first pool. The first pool was making you send your blockhash solution over the wire serialized. With POG, you actually have 0 bandwidth utilization. Your client works internally trying to solve the block, and the pool is within the wallet. So yes, you only sync the chain once, then there is no data utilization. EDIT: As far as POG setup being hard, in the end there won't be any settings (just a default of genproclimit=1 and a default tithe parameter (IE tithe=auto), and we can put them both in. Please vent any frustration to me in testnet and Ill try to help improve the experience. I maintain it should be easy for 5 year olds. Im happy that your arogancy is back. Thank you. Just one thing. Start network meter and start wallet. You will see the real traffic (not you Rob). With gen=0 and genproclimit=0. I don't understand, why would you say such a mean spirited thing? I answered your question. Yes, it will be zero after synced (other than sanctuary vote traffic, which is a given). Please, explain in what way does our testnet wallet send or receive data that is not in the next block? Thank you. |
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i'm not sure
but my question is about price, i'm still dont know how price will be covered by real $. in general, bigger difficulty means that you will need more cpu/gpu/anything power to mine same amount. so you spend more money for mining and thus coin is more valuable to you as nobody wants selling under real costs
so how it will be with pog where costs are almost zero?
todays i have cost and rewards which leads to price about 9 sat/bbp so i dont want to sell under 9
but what in pog?... realy dont know
Please consider that the total market cap for a coin contains more facets than the electric rate; although I agree its a base arbitrage price for a commodity and is certainly related to coins with big mining pools and heavy electric use. I think the sum of market cap should also include future price expectation, sanctuary lockups, lost coins per year per user, expected innovation from the roadmap, future deflation, future growth projection, and vitally future userbase count - etc. One example in our own camp is PIVX - they are the proof of stake version of Dash. Value = $33 mil. One small exercise we should do is make a model. In the model for POG you have more adoption (1000's of home pc's and laptops in the POG pool) earning small amounts vs. hundreds doing research. I think you are referring to motivation to sell the coin. If the future expectation is high one will hold on to the coins. |
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if i understood it, then 100% cpu mining i needed only if you want reward for finding blocks. in other cases, you just need tithe something and then waiting in idle for reward (or very very low cpu set to mining as now with gen=1)
My question is mainly if the running wallet will permanently downloading and sending huge amount of data as it is now with running wallet. Yes it will be connected, downloading blockchain data. You already had at least 1 doing this previously. As far as the CPU you don't need the 100% unless you really want to do POW (pobh) as well. Right and I don't mind going down this rabbit hole a little more and elaborating, because the last thing I want to do is give anyone the impression we would be going back to something old and broken, not the case at all. The POBH algorithm itself is solid, its chained bible verses being solved on a CPU. The things we did with it back then were the things that got exploited. Remember when you talk about massive data going up and down the pipe your probably referring to the first pool. The first pool was making you send your blockhash solution over the wire serialized. With POG, you actually have 0 bandwidth utilization. Your client works internally trying to solve the block, and the pool is within the wallet. So yes, you only sync the chain once, then there is no data utilization. EDIT: As far as POG setup being hard, in the end there won't be any settings (just a default of genproclimit=1 and a default tithe parameter (IE tithe=auto), and we can put them both in. Please vent any frustration to me in testnet and Ill try to help improve the experience. I maintain it should be easy for 5 year olds. |
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We need to take a step back, and not antagonize each other...
The fact is the Jews were commanded to give 10%, but in practice gave more like 30-40% (helping serve others outside of the church requirement).
I think arguing the semantics is getting us nowhere, we could settle on a more neutral term "offering" ? but it doesn't change the facts.
We live in a world that is offended by everything, lets not bring this to God's kingdom..
For now, the terminology used by POG should be Tithe. Tithe is a form of giving. And we had the classic 10% tithe in the old Testament in the time of the Law, and now we are living in the church age. From my perspective - we do recognize the new Testament as the current age. |
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I guess we are back to deleting posts.
Have a Blessed Day.
Please stop posting on the forum unless it meets the guidelines in the OP post (IE being a benefit to others). Next post is being monitored and will be turned in to the mods. "Almighty" Rob, Have a Blessed Day. Please don't antagonize on the forum. And I recommend worshiping Jesus. |
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I guess we are back to deleting posts.
Have a Blessed Day.
Please stop posting on the forum unless it meets the guidelines in the OP post (IE being a benefit to others). Next post is being monitored and will be turned in to the mods. Yes, argumentative posts that violate the community rules are deleted. |
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Hello,
Purepool seems to be down. Last block was found 12 hours ago...
@Light, can you please have a look?
Same here, not sure who to contact, as the contact info on the site points back to this thread. ------ I'm still having trouble wrapping my head around the tithing concept, at least at the ELI5 level. Let me think out loud and maybe we can work it out. In the traditional sense, tithing is a sort of 10% tax. If I make $1000 a month, my 10% tithe leaves me with $900. In terms of Boinc, I'm pledging a certain amount of electricity/computing power, and in return I receive a small amount of GRC/Byteball/DCC/BBP/Neumanium. In the new concept (as I understand it), I can tithe some percent (let's say 10% again) in BBP, and in return I get some amount of BBP. How much I have no idea, or how to take a guess) This isn't my opinion, but I think the following is a valid question: If we're really trying to promote giving, why are we getting a kickback reward for the tithing? If I get Y% reward for tithing X%, wouldn't it be more giving to donate X% + Y%? Isn't effectively our tithe reduced by the amount of our reward? You might say the same for Boinc, but there's no return of electricity--it gets used regardless (kind of like traditional tithing). This isn't my perception, but I think it should be thought out--that to an outsider, the "giving" part of proof-of-giving, isn't a full give, there's a refund involved. Maybe that's the carrot that gets the giving started to begin with?) It may be that we need to trick encourage people into giving? But for a coin that is charity-based and Christian-based, it might seem odd to be rewarding giving with the same currency (which brings up donating X + Y%). I would always think, "how am I benefiting directly from this giving, is this right?". Now one could make the same argument for Boinc, but there are two key differences. Boinc is scientific research, not spiritual in nature. And two, that the payment from Boinc isn't in the same currency coming in and going out. If we are totally honest, it seems that a 10% tithe, after rewards, leaves us with more than 90% left. First, it's not 10% - as that is just a common percent encouraged by mainstream churches - you should tithe 10% of your income to show God that you gave the first fruits and then you trust him even if you dont have enough to pay the rest of your bills with the remaining 90% that he will make ends meet. The definition of tithe is literally 1/10....which is what is in the Bible...not some random percentage encouraged by mainstream churches...but ok...let's have our own definition of words... No, tithe is to give. Please don't make this forum your personal playground (for arguments). Let's grow up and be more respectful. When Jesus came, he brought his concise commandments and this did away with a lot of Orthodox Jewish traditions. That is just ridiculous that you cannot even agree on the actual definition of a word and have to have your own....and no I did not make this forum my personal playground but thanks. You did not even answer my previous question(s) but you would need to read my post(s) properly to do that I guess, which you do not. Have a Blessed day. ==== Since you edited you previous post. The word tithe comes from tenth....This should give you a clue. If you look at other translations of the Bible that replaced some instances of the word "tithe" by something else: Genesis 14:19-20 New International Version (NIV) 19 and he blessed Abram, saying, “Blessed be Abram by God Most High, Creator of heaven and earth. 20 And praise be to God Most High, who delivered your enemies into your hand.” Then Abram gave him a tenth of everything. So no, 10% is not just a random percentage by "mainstream" churches. Thank you for making my point for me - as I mentioned earlier about the old testament - Abram - who is the father of the Jews, set guidelines for tithing for Orthodox Jews. Jesus came in 4BC, and created the church age. The rules are slightly different for when people observe Sabbaths for modern Christians, and in general they have the luxury of setting their own family guidelines for tithing. Some want to give more than 10%. Please consider being less argumentative in our forum - this is really a dishonorable activity to put us through - I realize you may have nothing to do but you should be more respectful of my time. |
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Hello,
Purepool seems to be down. Last block was found 12 hours ago...
@Light, can you please have a look?
Same here, not sure who to contact, as the contact info on the site points back to this thread. ------ I'm still having trouble wrapping my head around the tithing concept, at least at the ELI5 level. Let me think out loud and maybe we can work it out. In the traditional sense, tithing is a sort of 10% tax. If I make $1000 a month, my 10% tithe leaves me with $900. In terms of Boinc, I'm pledging a certain amount of electricity/computing power, and in return I receive a small amount of GRC/Byteball/DCC/BBP/Neumanium. In the new concept (as I understand it), I can tithe some percent (let's say 10% again) in BBP, and in return I get some amount of BBP. How much I have no idea, or how to take a guess) This isn't my opinion, but I think the following is a valid question: If we're really trying to promote giving, why are we getting a kickback reward for the tithing? If I get Y% reward for tithing X%, wouldn't it be more giving to donate X% + Y%? Isn't effectively our tithe reduced by the amount of our reward? You might say the same for Boinc, but there's no return of electricity--it gets used regardless (kind of like traditional tithing). This isn't my perception, but I think it should be thought out--that to an outsider, the "giving" part of proof-of-giving, isn't a full give, there's a refund involved. Maybe that's the carrot that gets the giving started to begin with?) It may be that we need to trick encourage people into giving? But for a coin that is charity-based and Christian-based, it might seem odd to be rewarding giving with the same currency (which brings up donating X + Y%). I would always think, "how am I benefiting directly from this giving, is this right?". Now one could make the same argument for Boinc, but there are two key differences. Boinc is scientific research, not spiritual in nature. And two, that the payment from Boinc isn't in the same currency coming in and going out. If we are totally honest, it seems that a 10% tithe, after rewards, leaves us with more than 90% left. First, it's not 10% - as that is just a common percent encouraged by mainstream churches - you should tithe 10% of your income to show God that you gave the first fruits and then you trust him even if you dont have enough to pay the rest of your bills with the remaining 90% that he will make ends meet. The definition of tithe is literally 1/10....which is what is in the Bible...not some random percentage encouraged by mainstream churches...but ok...let's have our own definition of words... No, tithe is to give. Please don't make this forum your personal playground (for arguments). Let's grow up and be more respectful. When Jesus came, he brought his concise commandments and this did away with a lot of Orthodox Jewish traditions. "tithe noun English Language Learners Definition of tithe : an amount of money that a person gives to a church which is usually equal to 1/10 of that person's income" The key is usually - I've been saying that all along. However the word was picked carefully - and it's meaning is "whatever level you are comfortable with" - you are making a sacrifice from your personal income - and that's the scope of the word in POG. (In contrast to making up our own use of the word). |
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I forgot to mention, in POG2, you can calculate ROI from tithing now.
(Since we require an aged coin to tithe one cannot "game" the system to get in the pool).
Once in the pool, to calculate your ROI, take the daily mining emissions and subtract the tithe cap, divide this by blocks per day and this yields roi per block - divide that by your tithe and you can see the roi - please ask about this in testnet and I will add an actual ROI figure to the client.
Its up to us to set the ROI at a certain level before we use it in prod (this level depends on module use - if its POBH + POG2 then its one figure, if its pure POG2 its a different figure).
In testnet its set at 50% now - so the difficulty algorithm will always ensure an accepted tithe pays a 50% minimum profit.
However note that 50% is the Minimum - on a slow day where no one is tithing, miners make way more than 50%.
EDIT: This 50% is subject to change, because we are using a deflationary tithe_cap based on a % of charity governance emissions - we will work it out exactly in testnet with an inclient figure.
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Hello,
Purepool seems to be down. Last block was found 12 hours ago...
@Light, can you please have a look?
Same here, not sure who to contact, as the contact info on the site points back to this thread. ------ I'm still having trouble wrapping my head around the tithing concept, at least at the ELI5 level. Let me think out loud and maybe we can work it out. In the traditional sense, tithing is a sort of 10% tax. If I make $1000 a month, my 10% tithe leaves me with $900. In terms of Boinc, I'm pledging a certain amount of electricity/computing power, and in return I receive a small amount of GRC/Byteball/DCC/BBP/Neumanium. In the new concept (as I understand it), I can tithe some percent (let's say 10% again) in BBP, and in return I get some amount of BBP. How much I have no idea, or how to take a guess) This isn't my opinion, but I think the following is a valid question: If we're really trying to promote giving, why are we getting a kickback reward for the tithing? If I get Y% reward for tithing X%, wouldn't it be more giving to donate X% + Y%? Isn't effectively our tithe reduced by the amount of our reward? You might say the same for Boinc, but there's no return of electricity--it gets used regardless (kind of like traditional tithing). This isn't my perception, but I think it should be thought out--that to an outsider, the "giving" part of proof-of-giving, isn't a full give, there's a refund involved. Maybe that's the carrot that gets the giving started to begin with?) It may be that we need to trick encourage people into giving? But for a coin that is charity-based and Christian-based, it might seem odd to be rewarding giving with the same currency (which brings up donating X + Y%). I would always think, "how am I benefiting directly from this giving, is this right?". Now one could make the same argument for Boinc, but there are two key differences. Boinc is scientific research, not spiritual in nature. And two, that the payment from Boinc isn't in the same currency coming in and going out. If we are totally honest, it seems that a 10% tithe, after rewards, leaves us with more than 90% left. First, it's not 10% - as that is just a common percent encouraged by mainstream churches - you should tithe 10% of your income to show God that you gave the first fruits and then you trust him even if you dont have enough to pay the rest of your bills with the remaining 90% that he will make ends meet. In the scope of POG, Tithe means to give (not to give 10%). As far as receiving a reward back, the ELI5 part is we tell people that in this mining algorithm, our users "give" (or Tithe) to earn share weight in the pool. Once you have share weight you are in the pool for 24 hours and will be eligibile for pool rewards. =-=-=-=- We are basically using the act of tithing as a replacement for hashpower measurement in our integrated pool. Why do this? Because in this way the system can scale to millions of homes without encouraging people to buy expensive GPUs, asics, or VMSs (they can use commodity hardware laying around) etc. =-=-=-=-=- Whats nice about this is Proof-of-giving fits very well with a Christian based theme also. |
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Proposal list is not based on Pool.biblepay.org.
Then how are duplicate proposals removed? Blockchain would show both... The datagrid for version 1.0 works, its more advanced than Dash not having one
I Won't argue with your opinion.Can we agree to disagree? Yes, blockchain will show both in the core wallet because both exist. Pool business logic was written by me to try to make an easy to visit place for end users who dont want to deal with technical issues when voting. Its been trustworthy every month and every proposal. On #2, we have Bhavani who put a lot of time and effort into making that, again its not in other governance wallets and we have it. Isnt that great? Sure we can disagree but its still a mean spirited attack. I would recommend either stepping up and adding your contribution to github (the code for a better proposal grid) - or - make a 'nice to have' github issue explaining it in a nice way. |
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