I think you have shown how evidence can be used to shape a case, however to be fair to all parties the forensics really must start at the beginning and go where it leads, my guess it many interesting things will be found.
Based on what you found Mt Cox will have to account for those transactions -- they may all be legit, all illegit, or some mixture the point is we know where they came from and MG must make an accounting. Whatever he can't account for must be assumed that he has control over.
I think the main point is, if those addresses could in any way be linked to MtGox, then the coins cannot be stolen. No thief would be dumb enough to sell all coins in one big chunk to a single entity that is also so incredibly stupid to keep the coins as one single chunk in one address stored. If the above addresses are in any way linked to gox, then the coins are retrievable. You mentioned "one single chunk" you uncovered and delineated several big chunks. I suspect the road to finding what happened to be long and hard, but it it's short and smooth, that better for everyone. |
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I really want to get my bitcoin life together again and help with this / learn somthingz.
Respectfully requesting links that will help myself and others become good Block chain annalists
Sometimes it better to learn academic things from a more exciting direction take a look a this: There was some irc chat long ago, where Karpeles sent around 424k BTC to a particular address as prove that the exchange holds enough funds. The address was this here 424k proof transaction: https://blockchain.info/tx/3a1b9e330d32fef1ee42f8e86420d2be978bbe0dc5862f17da9027cf9e11f8c4 424k 06/23/2011 connected to this address are following addresses 50k 1P3S1grZYmcqYDuaEDVDYobJ5Fx85E9fE9 first input: 11/16/2011 05:59:08 40k 1cXNTyXj4xPGopfYZNY5xfSM1EPJJvBZV first input: 11/16/2011 05:59:08 40k 12HddUDLhRP2F8JjpKYeKaDxxt5wUvx5nq first input: 11/16/2011 05:38:46 40k 16Ls6azc76ixc9Ny7AB5ZPPq6oiEL9XwXy first input: 11/16/2011 05:38:46 30k 1MyGwFAJjVtB5rGJa32M6Yh46cGirUta1K first input: 11/16/2011 05:45:03 Unfortunately i fail to understand the blockchain.info chain of events completely, as there are some addresses which received less funds than they seemingly sent out. you will notice that all of those addresses contain the bitcons still, AND all of those addresses have zero digits BEFORE the dot(sub the front digit of course). they are exactly 50000.whatever, 40000.whatever and so on... if you head over to http://bitcoinrichlist.com/top100 you will be able to find similar addresses with 40k, 30k, 20k, 10k etc one example being this Nr 24, 25, 26 in the rich list are 40k with all digits in front of the dot are zero, AS WELL as one digit after the DOT. There is one more 40k which has ALL digits in front of the dot zero, but not the digit AFTER the dot. This would be this one http://bitcoinrichlist.com/address/14j6jLececs66ZQ8ew6vTFNiEn2NupacWJ?charttype=balanceThere is only 1 30k address which is already included in the list, showing this pattern, but there are two 20k addresses being at 45 and 46 in the rich list position, having all zeros after the "2" digit http://bitcoinrichlist.com/address/15CVfJUC1LKn1GKZx6RM5UMbFfnTd8vTT4?charttype=balancehttp://bitcoinrichlist.com/address/13ssxUjmQqemuiBfJSBsr7gFX7UWU7uXNK?charttype=balanceat 15k we have http://bitcoinrichlist.com/address/1LDWDufjU5ATbozDZY3uChb7oPAbDaiB7K?charttype=balancehttp://bitcoinrichlist.com/address/12WFth5HabiVrcj5waHtDP1b7gXSQPuDPz?charttype=balancehttp://bitcoinrichlist.com/address/1Fd2RVn8Ha6K6qevPFgPLneJn8VNaLPGW2?charttype=balanceat 10k we have http://bitcoinrichlist.com/address/1MeCzxxB8eDd17DaocFLQaQtH8seVjNM67?charttype=balancehttp://bitcoinrichlist.com/address/1Gg9GGQWmRk1pp4vNkMqLaEiPVNdiNvz7E?charttype=balancehttp://bitcoinrichlist.com/address/19PPeuu4jPjqtefSQ2FDgKmNJ88Z5wiuJt?charttype=balancehttp://bitcoinrichlist.com/address/15jdxjFhXUsp2xuycmKnjw8yk1WsVon69c?charttype=balance.... many more. The 10k addresses that follow this pattern are numerous going from 84-113 , meaning 30* 10k = 300k coins 194-235 5k deposits with same pattern 42*5k = 210k So we would have 1x 50k 4x 40k (one of which does not follow the exact pattern as the other 3) 1x 30k 2x 20k 3x 15k 30x 10k 42x 5k we get a total of 835 BTC. Not all of those addresses are owned by MtGox for sure, in fact, maybe none of those are owned by Gox. It's highly speculative if those BTC are part of the lost 750k especially since i cannot understand the blockchain chain of events well enough to explain certain transactions from addresses that seem to have less in than they transact out. |
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There was some irc chat long ago, where Karpeles sent around 424k BTC to a particular address as prove that the exchange holds enough funds. The address was this here 424k proof transaction: https://blockchain.info/tx/3a1b9e330d32fef1ee42f8e86420d2be978bbe0dc5862f17da9027cf9e11f8c4 424k 06/23/2011 connected to this address are following addresses 50k 1P3S1grZYmcqYDuaEDVDYobJ5Fx85E9fE9 first input: 11/16/2011 05:59:08 40k 1cXNTyXj4xPGopfYZNY5xfSM1EPJJvBZV first input: 11/16/2011 05:59:08 40k 12HddUDLhRP2F8JjpKYeKaDxxt5wUvx5nq first input: 11/16/2011 05:38:46 40k 16Ls6azc76ixc9Ny7AB5ZPPq6oiEL9XwXy first input: 11/16/2011 05:38:46 30k 1MyGwFAJjVtB5rGJa32M6Yh46cGirUta1K first input: 11/16/2011 05:45:03 Unfortunately i fail to understand the blockchain.info chain of events completely, as there are some addresses which received less funds than they seemingly sent out. you will notice that all of those addresses contain the bitcons still, AND all of those addresses have zero digits BEFORE the dot(sub the front digit of course). they are exactly 50000.whatever, 40000.whatever and so on... if you head over to http://bitcoinrichlist.com/top100 you will be able to find similar addresses with 40k, 30k, 20k, 10k etc one example being this Nr 24, 25, 26 in the rich list are 40k with all digits in front of the dot are zero, AS WELL as one digit after the DOT. There is one more 40k which has ALL digits in front of the dot zero, but not the digit AFTER the dot. This would be this one http://bitcoinrichlist.com/address/14j6jLececs66ZQ8ew6vTFNiEn2NupacWJ?charttype=balanceThere is only 1 30k address which is already included in the list, showing this pattern, but there are two 20k addresses being at 45 and 46 in the rich list position, having all zeros after the "2" digit http://bitcoinrichlist.com/address/15CVfJUC1LKn1GKZx6RM5UMbFfnTd8vTT4?charttype=balancehttp://bitcoinrichlist.com/address/13ssxUjmQqemuiBfJSBsr7gFX7UWU7uXNK?charttype=balanceat 15k we have http://bitcoinrichlist.com/address/1LDWDufjU5ATbozDZY3uChb7oPAbDaiB7K?charttype=balancehttp://bitcoinrichlist.com/address/12WFth5HabiVrcj5waHtDP1b7gXSQPuDPz?charttype=balancehttp://bitcoinrichlist.com/address/1Fd2RVn8Ha6K6qevPFgPLneJn8VNaLPGW2?charttype=balanceat 10k we have http://bitcoinrichlist.com/address/1MeCzxxB8eDd17DaocFLQaQtH8seVjNM67?charttype=balancehttp://bitcoinrichlist.com/address/1Gg9GGQWmRk1pp4vNkMqLaEiPVNdiNvz7E?charttype=balancehttp://bitcoinrichlist.com/address/19PPeuu4jPjqtefSQ2FDgKmNJ88Z5wiuJt?charttype=balancehttp://bitcoinrichlist.com/address/15jdxjFhXUsp2xuycmKnjw8yk1WsVon69c?charttype=balance.... many more. The 10k addresses that follow this pattern are numerous going from 84-113 , meaning 29* 10k = 290k coins 194-235 5k deposits with same pattern So we would have 1x 50k 4x 40k 1x 30k 2x 20k 29x 10k 41x 5k we get a total of 775k BTC. Of course, not all of those addresses are owned by MtGox so we are getting closer to the 750k in this highly speculative theory. In fact, none of those addresses could have anything to do with MtGox, as i do not understand the blockchain well enough, but i find it quite a coincidence that they add up so well. I think you have shown how evidence can be used to shape a case, however to be fair to all parties the forensics really must start at the beginning and go where it leads, my guess it many interesting things will be found. Based on what you found Mt Cox will have to account for those transactions -- they may all be legit, all illegit, or some mixture the point is we know where they came from and MG must make an accounting. Whatever he can't account for must be assumed that he has control over. |
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it may be simpler than that; the theft can have been a) straightforward stealing from a wallet, not tied to a customer account, in which case there should be a normal blockchain record of the transaction b) malleability hacks - in this case the internal records may be compared to the blockchain records. In other words, the proper accounting that was not done in real time, could be done as part of an iterative forensic analysis using internal records and blockchain. Most accounts at Gox are probably OK and it should be possible to rule these out easily. At least the total leakage from 2011 until now could somehow be determined if Gox has archived all their transactions...and 800K is a lot, even if BTC was worth a lot less back then, the volume was also a lot less... And also, if someone stole that many coins, he will not have an easy time converting these, if exchanges do proper AML-KYC. Mixing such a large number of coins is hard. This mixer.io (or whatever its called) some people advertise, claims to have a queue of 2400, so mixing 800 000 coins is not realistic. But first we need some forensic analysis to prove that these coins were stolen I HOPE THEY WERE ONLY LOST ... that would be even good for the honest BTC owners  I was expecting someone to bring up 'mixing' even with that the transactions can be tracked everything electronic leave a footprint, here's the thing about the mixers, if anyone is too lazy to figure it out they can just blame it on the owner of the mixer since they were the last ones on record to have the funds. That would motivate the mixers to cooperate with the investigation. |
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What I don't understand is, why spending probably 6 figures just to forward Gox.com to the main domain if they were going to apply for bankruptcy? Does this purchase imply something we of course can't be aware of or is it just another fail on Mark and his henchmen's part?
ok, I missed that chapter of the Mt Gox saga, please explain -- what happened ? |
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I have pending withdraws from December 7th to December 16th, total of $8,125.28 USD.
I might be in a legal mess of my own if I don't receive those funds...
dude, if things are done as usual, or as expected you will not only not see any funds soon, if you receive any funds at all it will be no sooner than a year from now. Mt Gox declared bankruptcy, the whole matter is about btc a currency 99% of the world (including regulators, lawyers, courts, etc) know very little about; given Marks record keeping skills and propensity to erase incriminating things, my guess no one gets anything unless that block chain is scrubbed in order to find the money and prove that he has or may have it. If he doesn't have it no one is getting squat. So, on the upside in about a year you may receive a check for about $100.00 for your $8K loss, on the down side you get nothing. Join up with the class action suits and all other efforts but don't count on seeing that $8K again. |
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Presumably the mtgoxrecovery.com effort is to make injured parties whole to the full extent of their abilities, well the block chain will help you to follow the money. If what Mt Gox did was foolish negligent nonsense the mtgoxrecover.com effort is extremely limited, however if what Mt Gox did was criminal then the block-chain is the way to get more for your clients, it's the way to literally connect the dots. Any real effort to make the investors whole should be centered around the block chain, it is both your proof, smoking gun, evidence, and most trustworthy witness. |
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Why not just make the withdrawal automatic? When you hit 'buy' they ask 'what adress is the bitcoin going to?' , then you buy and they send right after that. For people who is selling, first you have the 'deal' - buy and sell same price - then you send the bitcoin.
Is this possible?
it all depends on what type of exchange you are working with if you are simply a facilitator then that could happen, but if you are a broker that would be unwise and very risky for the facilitator they are simply bringing the two sides together to do a transaction, where as the broker is actually responsible for the transfer at some point You can easily charge % fee on cash and bitcoin.. Why risky? rafamadeira bitsimple was the very first person to respond to you and responded in the affirmative, all other responses were less inviting yet you ignored the immediate and positive response to focus your attention on everyone else. When I see things like that I think it's a backhanded marketing plan, I love to see those. Nevertheless, have you used bitsimple's site, how do you like it? W |
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Why not just make the withdrawal automatic? When you hit 'buy' they ask 'what adress is the bitcoin going to?' , then you buy and they send right after that. For people who is selling, first you have the 'deal' - buy and sell same price - then you send the bitcoin.
Is this possible?
it all depends on what type of exchange you are working with if you are simply a facilitator then that could happen, but if you are a broker that would be unwise and very risky for the facilitator they are simply bringing the two sides together to do a transaction, where as the broker is actually responsible for the transfer at some point |
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If you plan on holding any coins for the long-term it is best to store them in a paper wallet. Developers are currently working on an offline paper wallet generator and we need testers! It's built in HTML and JavaScript and is very similar to other paper wallet generators like bitaddress.org and bitcoinpaperwallets.com There will be many advanced features included in this paper wallet generator, for starters: - ZIP download for offline generation - Multiple coin support (BTC, LTC, NMC, PPC, NXT, etc.) - Security dashboard: Gauge your setup's security level in the hopes of achieving Zero Trust - Import Keys or Generate your own - RNG Generation: Entropy collection based on mouse movement - Batch generation and printing of multiple wallets Full feature list will be announced, all features may not make it into the initial Beta but they'll all get added before release. Please sign up at http://www.cryptopapers.com so you can be notified upon BETA release. Cheers! if you like we could partner on a more appropriate address for your site -- cryptocurrencykeys.com, let me know if you have an interest |
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And what is it that you want to do when you find the BTC? Beat the private keys out of anyone that has even a satoshi of them in their wallets? Who's can say those BTC have long been used/traded for good or services? Or even if they ended up in a cold storage wallet long ago?
I think you really need to think about what your suggesting; a witch-hunt plain and simple.
What I'm suggesting is 100% sound Let's examine your excuses individually: 1) "And what is it that you want to do when you find the BTC?" A) return it to it's rightful owner, that's what you are supposed to do with stolen money. Sure that's not news to you? 2) "Beat the private keys out of anyone that has even a satoshi of them in their wallets?" A) I try not to operate like that any more 3) "Who's can say those BTC have long been used/traded for good or services?" A) Oh, goodie, they were spent for "good or service", so now you have names, faces, addresses, email addresses, phone numbers, cities, countries ... to add to all of the other electronic connections. At that point anonymous becomes a less anonymous. 4) "Or even if they ended up in a cold storage wallet long ago?" A) cold storage doesn't represent a dead end it represents a good idea of where it is, who has it and that it is still available. Even if someone attempted to wash the dirty money it will show on the block chain. The whole cryptocurrency economy suffers when irresponsible behavior is rewarded with a blind eye. |
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And what is it that you want to do when you find the BTC? Beat the private keys out of anyone that has even a satoshi of them in their wallets? Who's can say those BTC have long been used/traded for good or services? Or even if they ended up in a cold storage wallet long ago?
I think you really need to think about what your suggesting; a witch-hunt plain and simple.
I think we have our first suspect...  hahahahaaa |
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Do you want to know where the Mt Gox money went?
Do you want to know who is responsible for the loss?
Do you want to help find the missing btc?
Given that the bitcoin block chain is a public ledger and that each and every transaction from the beginning of btc time to present is documented, I propose a CSI type forensic investigation of the block chain to account for all of the btc that went through Mt Gox from their first deposit to their last withdrawal.
Clearly this would be a massive undertaking because you are not just looking at 1 level of deposits and withdrawals, but you are looking for patterns, and anomalies on multiple levels. Most of the transactions will be relatively easily to account for, many won't, but all btc can be accounted for.
I think such an effort would give the btc community a major boost.
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This lays out the case for breach of fiduciary duty quite nicely.
We can hope, I suppose, that the 740k BTC are "temporarily unavailable" and "not lost yet" because they are incorporated into a trust which the bankruptcy court will have control over.
If true, I guess we can also hope that Mark Karpeles spends some significant time in prison due to his recent alleged attempts at manipulation and deceit.
sadly, the lawyer who prepared the document choose to ignore the fact that Mt Gox had a history of such unscrupulous actions, it was not more than 9 month prior to the most recent debacle that Mt Gox orchestrate another debacle. According to some industry pros Mt Gox goxxed the cryptocurrency community upwards of 7 times. I read the MG Terms of Service agreement today and was shocked at what I saw. The lawyer also spoke of "industry standards" which made me laugh, because I know there are no industry standards, and if there were MG would have been the one to create it considering he was the first to have a CC exchange. This class action case is totally dependent on a criminal case, if you can't show that MG has the money then there is no money to be had. My position on this matter is simple, FOLLOW THE MONEY, unlike all fiat btc has a "paper" trail -- the block chain. ALL of the proof is there for you to find, just do the pain staking homework to find it. Either you will find Mark on the other end of it or not, given how he ran things, I'm guessing you will find mark on the other end of it. |
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Is their TOS legally binding in any way?
Yes and No, since you said "in any way" I'll try to explain. all legal agreements are subject to the laws of the govt with jurisdiction, it gets a bit more complicated when a company has international customers at that point there may be multiple govts with jurisdiction in general there is a respected hierarchy: criminal cases go first, civil cases follow Bankruptcy is a civil matter, it is being handled in Japan however the USA is considering criminal action, allbeit low-level (not murder), so for now both will trot along on parallel lines. The terms of service should tell everyone what the company is, responsibilities for all parties, and expectations for everyone. If the terms are considered by the court to be illegal or unfair the court will strike it down, for example I think I saw something that said the user is responsible for the security of his own username and password on the site, that statement could easily be construed many different ways in court if accounts are hacked. But if it seems unlikely that any hacker could break into 20 different accounts individually on the same day without breaching the site's security then it would likely be ruled against MG. In short, if the law specifically covers it then that's it (this is rare), if the law indirectly covers it then a lot depends on how the lawyers argue it (this is usually the case), but if the law doesn't really touch it then you ask yourself what would 12 reasonably prudent people think is fair (this is not so frequent). |
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wow, I can't believe it, I'm ready to buy or sell if the market would just make a substantial move in either direction, but it keeps making tiny moves in alternate directions, I have not seen this all year (well for two months, ok)
any thoughts on what's keeping things flat?
Have you ever traded in any market before? This is standard. Unlike all other financial markets, cryptocurrency markets are EXTREMELY volatile primarily because it is a nascent market but also because it is hype driven. If you do a thorough analysis of the btc charts you will rarely find long flat periods such as what we are now experiencing. For the year 2014 I only see one other time. |
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If I win I am not sure how I can transfer the $10 to my account though.
1) after you receive the scan go to Apple customer service: http://www.apple.com/support/itunes/contact/2) click on itunes store support https://getsupport.apple.com/Issues.action3) click on itunes codes and cards 4) click on itunes card code is not readable 5) depending on how busy they are you will have various options, I suggest you used the email or chat option. 6) complete their information checklist as best you can a) Your contact information b) this is for USA itunes only c) Activation code (enter as much of the code as possible): d) iTunes Card serial number: e) How do I find my serial number? Purchased from: [I will give you that info with the purchase]f) Briefly provide any other details you think we need to know: |
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nice username dude
wanna buy cryptocurrencyking.com ?
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