So does god carry out our choices or not. If he does then how am I responsible for any of my actions?
A simple example is, you go to a restaurant. The waitress asks you what your choice off the menu is. You tell the waitress. If the cook didn't prepare the dish, and the waitress didn't bring it to you, you wouldn't get it. When they carry out your wishes, you get your food. You had faith that they would do it, but they didn't have to. However, they did.  Cause and effect ''tells'' the waitress what I ''want''. None of that is my choice, didn't you say free will only exists in faith in god? How is going to a restaurant and asking for food faith in god? My argument is simple, if I design a robot and program it to kill people, you can't blame the robot for that, he did what he was programmed to do, it's not his fault. In fact it's my fault for programming the robot that way on purpose. Now switch robot with human and me with god and you have the problem. God programmed us and then blames us for the things that he programmed us to do. You misapply my restaurant example. Your robot example doesn't match what happening. Simply, our faith in God or against Him is our choice. God supplies the results of that faith, both to confirm our faith in its direct that we have chosen, and to work the things of life according to His designs and where we are in the scheme of things. It's our choice regarding faith in Him or against Him. He directs everything else according to our faith in Him, and even moves our faith more into the direction we have chosen. It doesn't work like that. ''It's our choice regarding faith in Him or against Him'' Imagine you have no memories of anything right now, how are you going to choose to believe or not to believe in god without any knowledge of anything? You need external knowledge of things to even consider beveling in god or not, those outside things are things not determined by you. Take this example 1 baby is born and kept in a cell for the first 10 years of his life, he only learns about Zeus and everyone is telling him Zeus is God and he should worship him. There is no way for that kid to ever believe in the God from the bible, he doesn't even know about that God. |
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Evolution cannot explain the complex designs that the universe displays. Humans and animals will generally remain the way they are. They are not evolving into something else.
What complex designs? How do you know they are ''designs'' ? |
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Your argument says we know plants, rocks, planets are designed because it uses the mechanism inside the things that we design. We designed water bottles, what's the mechanism of a water bottle and how does it relate to the other things you claim god designed?
Why do you think a water bottle has a mechanism? ''Because it uses all the mechanisms inside the things that we design'' So a bottle can't be used to prove plants are designed by god, give me an example then of your claim. Well, the motions of atoms and their subatomic particles are mechanisms that we use inside everything that we design, and even in our design of some not-readily-seen-in-nature forms of atoms. We use natural design in all our design. It is all the same... design. The fact that you don't know which human designed some pottery that you found in Asia, doesn't mean that it wasn't designed. The fact that you don't know much about the designer of al things doesn't mean that all things weren't designed. Design is all that there is. we prove it daily by incorporating natural design into all our design. Or isn't our design really design. Is our design something else because we use the stuff that everything is made of? Ok, I asked you how do you know things are designed, you answered with this: ''How do we know it is design? Because it uses all the mechanisms inside the things that we design'' So you claimed to know things are designed (plants, humans, rocks) because those things use the mechanisms inside the things that human design. Now you are saying that we are the ones incorporating natural design into our design, problem is how do you know there is such thing as ''natural design''? ''Well, the motions of atoms and their subatomic particles are mechanisms that we use inside everything that we design'' No they aren't. We don't use the motions of atoms to create a bottle, at least not on purpose, otherwise you can say you use the motion of atoms doing anything. The fact is that humans design things, we know that because we can compare them to nature, that's why we say nature is not designed. Everything is filled with flaws, something that you wouldn't expect in a perfect design. |
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You said ''The scientific laws are scientific facts, not scientific theories, because they have never been found to be wrong''
You are wrong. A scientific law cannot become a scientific law. You have 4 different things, fact,theory,law,hypothesis each one will feed into the others in different ways, with laws informing hypotheses and hypotheses developing laws, and everything coming together in a big amalgam to make a theory. This is also why scientists hold the term theory in such high regard.
So in fact a scientific theory holds more weight or it's more respected among scientists.
Well, if you don't even understand that we are talking from the standpoint of the fact that we don't know everything, what would even be the point of stating any of this?  What does that have to do with anything right now lmao. You are factually wrong stating that scientific laws are laws and not theories because they have never been found to be wrong. A simple example is that of big bang theory. One might take a bunch of factually accurate math, and combine it with the ideas about what goes on currently in the universe (some of which are probably quite accurate), and come up with the idea of a BB, that such a thing could exist, and that it might even be the way our universe came into being. Yet, there is so much "stuff" in the universe that is not explained by BB theory, that the possibility of a BB doesn't make it to have anything to do with our universe at all. The idea that BB has anything to do with our universe is based on consensus of a bunch of scientists and others, whose only reason for reaching that consensus is that they want to. ''simple example'' First of all the big bang theory does have a few competing theories, unlike evolution theory which really doesn't. Second of all the big bang is not just a bunch of accurate math, it's far more than that- ''As for the Big Bang, like most theories within cosmology, it is derived from extrapolation, projection and conjecture. It represents the conjecture that if you reverse the expanding universe, then you get a shrinking universe and that if you extrapolate that shrinking universe long enough, you get a recombination of everything into one small entity - called a singularity.'' ''Once we made that assumption, we looked for evidence or confirmation that it did or could have happened…and we found it, we think. If it happened the way we think it did, then it would have produced something like the cosmic microwave background radiation (CMBR)…and we found it. There are other math and empirical indicators also.'' But all of this has nothing to do with the fact that you were wrong, you were wrong about the definition of a scientific theory and also the difference between a scientific theory and a law, you were also wrong about entropy thinking that it disproves evolution. As you can see, you are wrong about a lot of things, factually, of course  |
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That's the wrong way to link your facebook profile. Please use the correct way otherwise I can't check your facebook. |
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So does god carry out our choices or not. If he does then how am I responsible for any of my actions?
A simple example is, you go to a restaurant. The waitress asks you what your choice off the menu is. You tell the waitress. If the cook didn't prepare the dish, and the waitress didn't bring it to you, you wouldn't get it. When they carry out your wishes, you get your food. You had faith that they would do it, but they didn't have to. However, they did. Cause and effect ''tells'' the waitress what I ''want''. None of that is my choice, didn't you say free will only exists in faith in god? How is going to a restaurant and asking for food faith in god? My argument is simple, if I design a robot and program it to kill people, you can't blame the robot for that, he did what he was programmed to do, it's not his fault. In fact it's my fault for programming the robot that way on purpose. Now switch robot with human and me with god and you have the problem. God programmed us and then blames us for the things that he programmed us to do. |
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You said ''The scientific laws are scientific facts, not scientific theories, because they have never been found to be wrong''
You are wrong. A scientific law cannot become a scientific law. You have 4 different things, fact,theory,law,hypothesis each one will feed into the others in different ways, with laws informing hypotheses and hypotheses developing laws, and everything coming together in a big amalgam to make a theory. This is also why scientists hold the term theory in such high regard.
So in fact a scientific theory holds more weight or it's more respected among scientists.
Well, if you don't even understand that we are talking from the standpoint of the fact that we don't know everything, what would even be the point of stating any of this? What does that have to do with anything right now lmao. You are factually wrong stating that scientific laws are laws and not theories because they have never been found to be wrong. |
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Your argument says we know plants, rocks, planets are designed because it uses the mechanism inside the things that we design. We designed water bottles, what's the mechanism of a water bottle and how does it relate to the other things you claim god designed?
Why do you think a water bottle has a mechanism? ''Because it uses all the mechanisms inside the things that we design'' So a bottle can't be used to prove plants are designed by god, give me an example then of your claim. |
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A scientific theory is an explanation of an aspect of the natural world that can be repeatedly tested, in accordance with the scientific method, using a predefined protocol of observation and experiment.[1][2] Established scientific theories have withstood rigorous scrutiny and embody scientific knowledge.
Of course after everyone telling you this hundreds of times you will still say the same shit, you are like a mindless robot, programmed to say the same things always, you indeed do not evolve.
And, of course, the testing produces no conclusive results. If it did, it would be considered scientific fact. This is the way that a bunch of people incorporate their design ideas of what fact should be into our minds as though it is fact. They call it scientific theory, something that is constantly tested, and most often, found to be wrong somewhere down the road. The scientific laws are scientific facts, not scientific theories, because they have never been found to be wrong, but have been found to be right so many times that there is not a scientific chance that they can be wrong. It's like a loop with you. Fact: Observations about the world around us. Example: “It’s bright outside.” Hypothesis: A proposed explanation for a phenomenon made as a starting point for further investigation. Example: “It’s bright outside because the sun is probably out.” Theory: A well-substantiated explanation acquired through the scientific method and repeatedly tested and confirmed through observation and experimentation. Example: “When the sun is out, it tends to make it bright outside.” Law: A statement based on repeated experimental observations that describes some phenomenon of nature. Proof that something happens and how it happens, but not why it happens. Example: Newton’s Law of Universal Gravitation. A theory is better than a hypothesis but a fact cannot be compared to a theory, a scientific theory will incorporate a lot of facts, for example and even laws. And as Solomon said, "The more the words (in this case laws and facts), the less the meaning." You said ''The scientific laws are scientific facts, not scientific theories, because they have never been found to be wrong'' You are wrong. A scientific law cannot become a scientific law. You have 4 different things, fact,theory,law,hypothesis each one will feed into the others in different ways, with laws informing hypotheses and hypotheses developing laws, and everything coming together in a big amalgam to make a theory. This is also why scientists hold the term theory in such high regard. So in fact a scientific theory holds more weight or it's more respected among scientists. |
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Complex design. Inner Life Of A Cell - Full Version.mkv
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKW4F0Nu-UYHow do we know it is design? Because it uses all the mechanisms inside the things that we design, plus a whole lot more. In addition, it is more highly miniaturized than we can make things of complex operation that is this complex. In fact, the complexity and miniaturization is so great, that the designer would only fit our definition of "God." And indeed, our definition is extremely weak when compared to what God really is. If complexity in the universe is something that comes by accident or randomness, then that is why we aren't getting anywhere near as great as this video complexity, in our design of things, right? After all, we don't use randomness when we design. And few of our great designs come about by accident. But when they do, they can't hold a candle next to the midday sun with regard to the design of nature. How do you know that we designed them, tho? If you can't even explain what your "them" is, how is anyone supposed to answer your question? Since you are afraid to express yourself clearly, for fear that you won't be able to respond against an answer appropriately, why not simply accept the fact that there is design in everything? - design, indicating that there is a Designer. Your argument says that we know plants or rocks are designed because it uses the mechanism inside the things that we design. Does a plant use the mechanism inside of a bottle of water? How does your argument work exactly? "Does a plant use the mechanism inside of a bottle of water?" Some of them, especially if you grow the plant along with the water inside the bottle. What are you even talking about? Your argument says we know plants, rocks, planets are designed because it uses the mechanism inside the things that we design. We designed water bottles, what's the mechanism of a water bottle and how does it relate to the other things you claim god designed? |
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Isaiah chapter 48 expresses things about this. It says that God knows how deceptive people are. So, He does what He does to hold up the honor of His Own Great Name. The honor He is upholding lies in the fact that He placed a touch of His Spirit into each and every one of us, thereby making us our own God-like entity. Therefore, we have freedom of choice just like He does, even though the touch of God that we are doesn't have the strength of itself to carry out our choices. That's why He carries out our choices for us. How does God carry out our choices for us? In the cause and effect that I can rightly claim, because it is in evidence throughout nature, and its opposite - pure random - has not been found to exist anywhere. So then you admit it's god doing the choices for us, so what's the point of all of this if it's god the one responsible for all our actions. Why would god choose for me to be an atheist then? It makes no sense, badecker. Just like your buddy the devil. Changing a little word here and there. I said our choices, not the choices. So does god carry out our choices or not. If he does then how am I responsible for any of my actions? |
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A scientific theory is an explanation of an aspect of the natural world that can be repeatedly tested, in accordance with the scientific method, using a predefined protocol of observation and experiment.[1][2] Established scientific theories have withstood rigorous scrutiny and embody scientific knowledge.
Of course after everyone telling you this hundreds of times you will still say the same shit, you are like a mindless robot, programmed to say the same things always, you indeed do not evolve.
And, of course, the testing produces no conclusive results. If it did, it would be considered scientific fact. This is the way that a bunch of people incorporate their design ideas of what fact should be into our minds as though it is fact. They call it scientific theory, something that is constantly tested, and most often, found to be wrong somewhere down the road. The scientific laws are scientific facts, not scientific theories, because they have never been found to be wrong, but have been found to be right so many times that there is not a scientific chance that they can be wrong. It's like a loop with you. Fact: Observations about the world around us. Example: “It’s bright outside.” Hypothesis: A proposed explanation for a phenomenon made as a starting point for further investigation. Example: “It’s bright outside because the sun is probably out.” Theory: A well-substantiated explanation acquired through the scientific method and repeatedly tested and confirmed through observation and experimentation. Example: “When the sun is out, it tends to make it bright outside.” Law: A statement based on repeated experimental observations that describes some phenomenon of nature. Proof that something happens and how it happens, but not why it happens. Example: Newton’s Law of Universal Gravitation. A theory is better than a hypothesis but a fact cannot be compared to a theory, a scientific theory will incorporate a lot of facts, for example and even laws. |
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But you don't know about the fairness involved, simply because you don't know who selects, how they select, and how God judges. His judgment is absolutely fair. In fact, it is so extremely fair towards people that God sent His Son, Jesus, to take the punishment for their poor choices. In other words, God bent over backwards becoming, like, unfair to His son, just to be way more than fair to you. How God makes it up in fairness to Jesus is their business.
Nobody gets punished for his sins. Jesus already took that punishment. God does not punish more than once for the same sins. Rather, we now get punished for not listening to the Holy Spirit, the only sin Jesus did not atone for. It's in the Bible, Mark 3:28-30:28Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme: 29But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation: 30Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit. And as usual, God makes the punishment fit the crime. So, stop blaspheming against the Holy Spirit before your damnation for it becomes final... locked in stone so to speak. ''How do you know that you didn't select who would be your mother before you were conceived'' Even if I did, how am I doing it? You said free will it's only in faith in god, picking my mother is not part of the free will therefore, I'm not actually doing it, god is, since he is the one who set everything in motion. ''But you don't know about the fairness involved, simply because you don't know who selects, how they select'' Yes I do, you always claim cause and effect is in everything, God is responsible for everything that happens, he is the ultimate cause, isn't he? Therefore everything that you and I select aren't really our choices. Isaiah chapter 48 expresses things about this. It says that God knows how deceptive people are. So, He does what He does to hold up the honor of His Own Great Name. The honor He is upholding lies in the fact that He placed a touch of His Spirit into each and every one of us, thereby making us our own God-like entity. Therefore, we have freedom of choice just like He does, even though the touch of God that we are doesn't have the strength of itself to carry out our choices. That's why He carries out our choices for us. How does God carry out our choices for us? In the cause and effect that I can rightly claim, because it is in evidence throughout nature, and its opposite - pure random - has not been found to exist anywhere. So then you admit it's god doing the choices for us, so what's the point of all of this if it's god the one responsible for all our actions. Why would god choose for me to be an atheist then? It makes no sense, badecker. |
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Badecker claims that everything has a cause and that cause also has a cause, till god. If everything has a set cause then how can I actually have free will? If everything has a set cause, nothing is random, therefore everything is already set, everything that I will do today, tomorrow and for the rest of my life is already set to happen. If that's the case then it is impossible for me to have free will, my decisions aren't really mine and because everything was created by god, as you claim, god is responsible for our actions, therefore he shouldn't punish or reward us.
Punishing or rewarding doesn't have anything to do with "He shouldn't." Actually, it's just the opposite. Since God designed the evil for a day of punishment, and the good for a day of righteousness, He absolutely should reward and punish. The free will that God gives lies only in the direction of the faith of people. And God reinforces that faith in the direction it is going. If your faith is such that it is against God, He will help you maintain it in that direction, even though He offers you the opportunity to change. This means that it is your own choice, and that God, being the dynamic and positive God that He is, is giving you the things that you choose out of love for you, but is also warning you about you faulty choices out of that same love. Read Romans chapter 22 so that you can see that God is making an offer to people, and they are choosing what they choose, and He is maintaining their choice for them - http://biblehub.com/niv/romans/9.htm. The place that cause and effect fits in is this. We are too weak spiritually to make anything happen. God makes our choices happen for us, via C&E, so that they match His design for the universe, and our position in it. How does your faith in god change then? |
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Complex design. Inner Life Of A Cell - Full Version.mkv
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKW4F0Nu-UYHow do we know it is design? Because it uses all the mechanisms inside the things that we design, plus a whole lot more. In addition, it is more highly miniaturized than we can make things of complex operation that is this complex. In fact, the complexity and miniaturization is so great, that the designer would only fit our definition of "God." And indeed, our definition is extremely weak when compared to what God really is. If complexity in the universe is something that comes by accident or randomness, then that is why we aren't getting anywhere near as great as this video complexity, in our design of things, right? After all, we don't use randomness when we design. And few of our great designs come about by accident. But when they do, they can't hold a candle next to the midday sun with regard to the design of nature. How do you know that we designed them, tho? If you can't even explain what your "them" is, how is anyone supposed to answer your question? Since you are afraid to express yourself clearly, for fear that you won't be able to respond against an answer appropriately, why not simply accept the fact that there is design in everything? - design, indicating that there is a Designer. Your argument says that we know plants or rocks are designed because it uses the mechanism inside the things that we design. Does a plant use the mechanism inside of a bottle of water? How does your argument work exactly? |
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Let's not talk about evolution, let's talk about your trash argument, you claim we are designed but you never explain how you know something is designed or not.
But I am not the focus. Since you don't seem to know that things were designed simply by looking at them, you really need to go back to school to learn about designing. I do know the things that are designed by looking at them. I know a house and a watch are designed by people, that's it. Your conclusion is: People design things therefore anything that's not designed by people has to be designed by someone else. A conclusion that makes no sense because you don't explain how you know when something is designed or not. I know when something is designed because I have seen humans do it, have you seen gods designing things? Complex design. Inner Life Of A Cell - Full Version.mkv
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKW4F0Nu-UYHow do we know it is design? Because it uses all the mechanisms inside the things that we design, plus a whole lot more. In addition, it is more highly miniaturized than we can make things of complex operation that is this complex. In fact, the complexity and miniaturization is so great, that the designer would only fit our definition of "God." And indeed, our definition is extremely weak when compared to what God really is. If complexity in the universe is something that comes by accident or randomness, then that is why we aren't getting anywhere near as great as this video complexity, in our design of things, right? After all, we don't use randomness when we design. And few of our great designs come about by accident. But when they do, they can't hold a candle next to the midday sun with regard to the design of nature. How do you know that we designed them, tho? |
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I was kind of amazed by the exchange of ideas here.
Well, for me, evolution remains to be a theory, yes, just that, a theory, until now. I don't know how Charles Darwin became a celebrity scientist right after he theorized that what we are now are different centuries and centuries ago. Perhaps because his idea was sort of radically new? The discovery actually caused a bandwagon mentality among a lot people. The entire world was stirred by his claim. Established religion was terribly shaken to its core. School curricula are challenged. The people's comfort zone was rendered uncomfortable.
And again, the classic, it's just a theory. Before saying more stupid shit, read what a scientific theory means because it's pretty much the best thing you can have in science. Basically, a scientific theory is an educated guess about something scientific. As such, it can be modified to fit new findings. This means that a scientific theory is not only less than a theory in the general sense of the word, but it might also be a consensus of a bunch of people who could be jokers with an political agenda rather than a desire for truth. So, that is what you are being led by in following scientific theory. A scientific theory is an explanation of an aspect of the natural world that can be repeatedly tested, in accordance with the scientific method, using a predefined protocol of observation and experiment.[1][2] Established scientific theories have withstood rigorous scrutiny and embody scientific knowledge. Of course after everyone telling you this hundreds of times you will still say the same shit, you are like a mindless robot, programmed to say the same things always, you indeed do not evolve. |
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And what makes people adhere to these things? The biggest reason by far is that they get religion, and then act according to what their religion tells them... to not harm their bodies. So, they stop doing harmful things, and start doing healthy things. Health and religion go hand in hand. Unfortunately that does not make religion true. If you need a lie to be healthy then you are simply weak. Religion is always true. After all, you are truly living your own personal religion. If it were not true, you wouldn't be living it. However, some parts of your personal religion are not correct. Mostly they deal with things like the existence of God, and the future. You never explained how faith and free will exist together, I asked you several times but you always ignore it in the end because you know it makes no sense. - What? Am I your answer man? All you do is ask questions to try to trip me up. Figure the answer out for yourself one time. You claim we all have faith at first but you also claim we can lose that faith thanks to our free will, however, things outside our free will like your mother dying or being born in a muslim country are not things you control. - I would guess that you are over 20 years old. Do you remember every move that you made when you were 1-y-o? How do you know that you didn't select who would be your mother before you were conceived, since you don't remember anything back that far very clearly if at all? Science doesn't know anything about this one way or another. But you seem very sure of it. Why? You agree that someone born in a christian country has it much easier to believe in the bible than someone born in a muslim one, right? Obviously those 2 situations are totally different, totally unfair as well for the guy who is born in the muslim country. How is any of this fair if we all experience life in different forms and we don't control any of it?
Nobody gets punished for his sins. Jesus already took that punishment. God does not punish more than once for the same sins. Rather, we now get punished for not listening to the Holy Spirit, the only sin Jesus did not atone for. It's in the Bible, Mark 3:28-30:28Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme: 29But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation: 30Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit. And as usual, God makes the punishment fit the crime. So, stop blaspheming against the Holy Spirit before your damnation for it becomes final... locked in stone so to speak.''How do you know that you didn't select who would be your mother before you were conceived'' Even if I did, how am I doing it? You said free will it's only in faith in god, picking my mother is not part of the free will therefore, I'm not actually doing it, god is, since he is the one who set everything in motion. ''But you don't know about the fairness involved, simply because you don't know who selects, how they select'' Yes I do, you always claim cause and effect is in everything, God is responsible for everything that happens, he is the ultimate cause, isn't he? Therefore everything that you and I select aren't really our choices. |
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Let's not talk about evolution, let's talk about your trash argument, you claim we are designed but you never explain how you know something is designed or not.
But I am not the focus. Since you don't seem to know that things were designed simply by looking at them, you really need to go back to school to learn about designing. I do know the things that are designed by looking at them. I know a house and a watch are designed by people, that's it. Your conclusion is: People design things therefore anything that's not designed by people has to be designed by someone else. A conclusion that makes no sense because you don't explain how you know when something is designed or not. I know when something is designed because I have seen humans do it, have you seen gods designing things? |
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Notbatman claims the moon, other planets, stars and the sun are all fake, holographic projections. He never explains who made these projections or how they exist, is it alien technology? How could these projections exist thousands of years ago? What's their purpose?
Fake, no I don't claim they're fake. I claim the images shown primarily but not exclusively by NASA are fake. Also, if holograms are fake then you're fake, nothing but a corrupted memory needing a reboot. The robot AI overlords don't take kindly to software corruption you know. That's a satirical take on Simulation Theory BTW, it doesn't imply you're not a corrupted NPC however. Does Musk actually believe this comedy of errors that is ST for real? He needs to get more comfortable with the idea of an all powerful giant bearded man in the sky. A righteous, just and judgemental bearded man who might not be too happy with his work being hidden away by damned souls. As for aliens they only exist on the globe of fools, you seem to question all of creation as if it needs your permission to exist.   The frog is not real, it's a toy that creates an illusion. The frog is real, it's a toy that creates an illusion. The frog is an illusion, but it's really a toy. The frog is not an illusion, it's really a toy. Is the frog real? So you claim holograms capable of showing a sun were invented 6000 years ago and shown to people since then? Who invented them and why? |
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