I'm going to read up a bit on trust systems tomorrow and see how this might be doable in an anonymous way.
"Anonymous" would not be the correct term. You'd rather talk about "pseudonymous" credit system. Your pseudonym would be your GnuPG ID. In an anonymous network, all nodes are equivalent and you can't tell them apart. In a pseudonymous network, they are not, but you just don't know anything about them except their ID, which can be as meaningless as a random number. |
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I may be anal here, but the bid should include the signature of my initial message, so that we know which auction we're talking about.
The date is in the signature, so there's not much chance of confusion... I'm not sure the timestamping in a GnuPG signature is trustworthy. If it was, the bitcoin network would use it instead of a distributed time server. Anyway, now that I think about it, signing bids is not necessary. It is really an auction protocol issue. Here the proof of concept is about bonds, not forum auctions. What has to be signed is my promess to pay. So once I get a bitcoin address from the auction winner, I'll sign it along with the bonds terms, and that will be all. |
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Sorry I have not read this whole thread, nor do I know the complete story, but to me it is quite clear that the guy made a fondamental mistake in putting the word "dollar" in the name of his currency.
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Basically a bid could look like this:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
XX BTC
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux)
>
> iEYEARECAAYFAk2UNq0ACgkQq17371C4DmhQIQCg86UwjCUt0q8iyojsOXUI7juB
> BpsAn2UtxuFqtXpLPwedvnYap+m2wrx9
> =qC0c
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux)
iEYEARECAAYFAk2Uc8EACgkQq17371C4DmhXSQCdGnXrJG6/4cA411b6lkXwX5Uc
LL8AnjuQGKNmI6LEbHpYAPca8P/GMqKL
=btiF
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
But I'm not sure it is really important. It's not related to the bond process, but to the auction process anyway. I don't think we would need it if we were on biddingpond, for instance.
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I'll bid 93.5.
How essential is the PGP signing? (Remember, this is only a POC)
I will accept a bid even if it's not signed. But precisely because it's a POC, we should look for the way to do things properly. |
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theymos leads with 95 BTC.
I may be anal here, but the bid should include the signature of my initial message, so that we know which auction we're talking about.
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Idealy people who bid should sign their bid in a message including my initial signed message.
This woudl allow the winning bidder to sign the final bitcoin address.
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Can you give a rough estimate in real calendar time when the bond will expire, for those of us who don't understand blockchains?
The time length is 20,000 - 16,000 = 4,000 blocks. There are about 6 blocks per hour, so 4,000 blocks is about 666 hours (?! number of the beast?? didn't do that on purpose!) 666 hours is 27 days, so about 4 weeks. |
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I understand you must pay the bid price now, and he will repay you the nominal value (100) at maturity time.
It's like a loan backed by a bond that you can also negotiate at market prices before maturity.
My bid is now 91.
You've just overbidded yourself, but why not... Gusti leads with 91 BTC |
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90.00000001
I can't accept this bid, since so far the bitcoin network only allows paiements with 0.01 BTC precision. |
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I bid 100BTC, which means that if I win, I'll just let you keep the darn bond.
OK, to be honest, I'm really unsure how this works. You want someone to pay you now, in exchange for a payout in the future?
If you bid 100 BTC, this means you'll pay me 100 BTC at block 116,000, and I'll pay you back at block 120,000. You would lend me money at zero interest rate. |
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90
gusti leads with 90 BTC |
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80
theymos leads with 80 BTC |
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I'll bid 16.10 (my account balance, lol) to get the ball rolling  deadlizard initiates the auction and leads with 16.10 BTC |
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
As a proof of concept, I hereby launch an auction for a bitcoin bond.
This means that I promess to pay a certain amount of bitcoin (called "nominal"), at a certain date (called "maturity"). The nominal is 100 BTC. Maturity will occur at block number 120,000.
I sell this bond in an auction process that will occur on this thread. To bid, just post a message with your bid in bitcoins. Auction will end at block number 116,000. Paiement should then be done within 10 blocks.
No starting price, but if at the end I'm not happy with the final winning bid, I will cancel the auction.
If selling does occur, I will materialize it with a GnuPG signed document where I will mention whe nominal, the maturity and the bitcoin address where the nominal should be paid at maturity.
Happy bidding!
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux)
iEYEARECAAYFAk2UNq0ACgkQq17371C4DmhQIQCg86UwjCUt0q8iyojsOXUI7juB
BpsAn2UtxuFqtXpLPwedvnYap+m2wrx9
=qC0c
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
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Reputation would not be on you, as a physical human being. It would be on the GPG public key.
Right, I get that. So would the reputation of your GPG key be akin to a credit rating of sorts? Would the CU use the key's reputation as a means of determining the eligibility for a loan? In that case, every new customer would essentially start with zero reputation since there would be no 'credit history' for the key. Reputation would not be anything formal. For each public keys, there would be some data about successful or failed loans. It's up to you to use this data and give a credit rating. And yes, every one would start from a "zero reputation". By the way, such a system has already started on #bitcoin-otc. |
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That still doesn't solve the question of identity. For example, I could generate a GPG key for 'Johnny Daniels' and sign a loan. Without some sort of way to validate some traceable information about this person, having a signed document doesn't really mean anything. Or am I missing something?
Reputation would not be on you, as a physical human being. It would be on the GPG public key. Basically people will think "I know that the guy, whoever he is, who uses this GPG key has always paid his debts. So I guess I can trust him to pay this one." If you lose your private key, then you'll lose the associated reputation and you'll have to start again with a new, zero reputation key. |
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I don't really have a "chief" thread to link to - perhaps this one would do - but there have been several discussions about the inherent challenges of loaning Bitcoins, most of which boil down to "how can you have a system of trust when transactions are anonymous?" I don't see any issue. Just GPG sign a loan contract and publish it. |
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The only question I would have is, what is there for sale that someone would want to borrow money in order to buy?
Pretty much anything, after currency exchange. Basically if bitcoin rates are low, this offer would allow bitcoin carry trade. |
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My guess is: mybitcoin moving its main wallet
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