Well, it's not for the average Joe, is it? |
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Cash exists. It's anonymous. Decentralised (not issueing, but existence, as it is dispatched everywhere). And yet the government seems Ok with it.
So they could use bitcoin to issue "electronic cash".
Basically they would modify the bitcoin source code, and make a new block chain with all the 21 millions "FEDcoins" generated all at once, in the genesis block. They could also make it so that a special private key could generate any number of new coins anytime they want.
And then they would guarantee the convertibiliy between FEDcoins and Federal Reserve Notes.
FEDcoins would be just like FDR notes, except that they are designed to be exchanged on the net, and not in person-to-person physical exchange.
That would cost them almost nothing.
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Prices is not something that is purely proportionnal. One thing might be cheap when you want only a small amount, but very expensive if you want a lot of it. This happens when you request more than what production can offer.
i know that if i want to buy all copper in word, near the end of my search it would be rarer than gold and cost more, but that is not exactly relevant is it? now, tell me who will do all those simple and dull jobs when one won't have to?
who will be mining everyday for 30 years or staying month after month on oil platforms if they can do nothing or anything?
One word: machines. well, we nowhere near that, are we? God damn it, have I written otherwise? Again: I am not saying that I am sure that in the future we will live in a money less society. I say that to me it is possible that free market forces, along with technological developpement, slowly reduces prices so that society looks more and more like a moneyless society. I won't write anymore here, as this thread is pissing me off. |
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- trade in gene selection technology for designer offspring and other ethically-questionable, experimental bio-medical technologies, fringe cancer treatments, etc
cool  |
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Je vais écrire ça en français car ça me pose quelques problèmes en anglais.
Ceux qui découvrent bitcoin ont souvent du mal au début à comprendre à quoi sert exactement la puissance de calcul utilisée. Ca leur parait absurde de faire tourner des cartes graphiques dans le vide juste pour calculer des hashs. Du coup ils croient que c'est ce calcul qui donne de la valeur aux bitcoins, du fait de la dépense énergétique nécessaire.
Ce n'est bien sûr pas comme ça qu'il faut voir les choses.
La puissance de calcul est nécessaire pour donner au réseau une échelle de temps décentralisée.
Si je possède 1 bitcoin, que je l'envoie à Alice et qu'en même temps j'essaie de tricher en envoyant le même bitcoin à Bob, il faut un moyen de savoir lequel des deux ordres est valable.
Avec un système centralisé c'est simple: c'est le premier qui arrive au serveur central.
Cette nécessité d'une chronologie sans référence temporelle unique implique de pouvoir prouver l'écoulement du temps. Une montre mesure le temps mais ne donne aucune preuve de sa véracité.
Une peuve de calcul, elle, n'est possible à obtenir qu'avec un certain travail qui prend nécessairement un certain temps. Dès lors, un enchainement de preuve de calculs constitue une échelle temporelle peu précise certes, mais en tout cas digne de confiance.
C'est l'idée la plus originale dans le fonctionnement de bitcoin, et elle mérite d'être plus souvent soulignée afin d'éviter les malentendus évoqués plus haut.
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The noob getting interviewed up there is yours truly. I was really going by the seat of my pants and probably got some things factually wrong.. if anyone notices anything please please let me know so I can issue an errata.
I think at some point you said that the last bitcoin will be generated in 10 years or so. I think it's rather a century or so. |
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Anyway, remember there ARE other exchanges places. MtGox is currently the bigger, but if it disappeared, the other exchange place would get bigger.
Also, there is #bitcoin-otc on freenode. It's the closest thing we have from a decentralised trading place.
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If someone can solve the issue of holding USD in a distributed nature, I'd love to see it.
If there was a way to do that, I'm not sure we would need bitcoin in the first place. |
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Basically free market will gradually price things for their true value, which will slowly tend to zero. We won't go from a money-based society to a moneyless society in a discontinuous manner. It will be a slow process regulated by market forces. Prices will gradually fall as things get more and more easy to obtain.
could you possibly be more wrong? Yes I could. For instance I would be more wrong if I was assuming that we can reach a moneyless society NOW, with just a political decision and authoritative measures (making money illegal, in a nutshell). On the contrary, I say that maybe technical progress could, in future, make price of things decrease significantly, so that life is easier and stuffs appear to be essentially free. i don't want to sound like aluminium foil hat wearing person but - most of the people in civilized countries (i.e. countries that you don't need to worry about sudden death)
are effectively owned by banks, corporations etc. having and wanting to have more and more of unnecessary things
everyone have mobile phone, so you have to have one - otherwise you will miss a lot both in personal and professional life
when just 15 years ago nobody had one... and that costs couple hundred bucks every two years plus 20-30 monthly
sure, some people are making money with them, when for general public landline could be completely acceptable, but...
everyone need to have car (or perhaps two, three per household) in fact number of vehicles per capita in usa doubled from 1960, who is going to produce them for free and why not take one for every day of week?
Prices is not something that is purely proportionnal. One thing might be cheap when you want only a small amount, but very expensive if you want a lot of it. This happens when you request more than what production can offer. now, tell me who will do all those simple and dull jobs when one won't have to?
who will be mining everyday for 30 years or staying month after month on oil platforms if they can do nothing or anything?
One word: machines. and reason why diamonds cost that much is simple - there is less supply than demand and that is a thing that is making people pay a lot for them to actually get one
Diamonds are a bad example as they currently can be manufactured. Gold will probably never ever be free. However, one gram of gold will probably get more and more purchasing power, just because stuffs will be easier and easier to produce with time. there is no way for all that to work without currency of some kind
You missed the point when I was saying that prices would GRADUALLY decrease. Basically I'm saying we could reach a moneyless society in an asymptotic manner. Money will still exist, but prices of stuffs will gradually get closer to zero, even if they never actually reach zero. |
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A big miner moving money in preparation for a trade, or something like that.
With bitcoin breaking parity again, no wonder some stuffs happen.
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Saluton!
Saluton, genjix! Mi vere dubas ke esperantisto, kiam li unue lernas pri bitcoin, unue skribas tie ! Do mi kredas ke vi estas genjix. Cxu ne?  |
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up for newbies. Please vote.
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Kial vi agas kiel malbonulo? Por kialo? Nefario nur penas helpi nin, tiel la economio de bitmono etendos. Cxesu cxar vi insultas ilin antaux iliaj studentoj. Vi agas kiel se bitmono estas serioza afero, kiu nur seriozuloj enpartoprenas. Kaj kiu problemo ekzistas? Nenio. Pli da pli uloj kreskigas la komunumon de bitmono. Sen tio, niaj monoj senvaloriĝos... Vere, cxu ĝi cxagrenas vin ke ni havas iome cxinajn angl-malparolantojn? Tamen la idea bonas. Provu vidi ĝin kiel amuzeto  Pardonu al mi, sed mi kredas ke por angloinstruantulo, estas malagado, je demandi al lernantuloj je monpeti. Se mi estus lernantulo, mi neniel trovus tion amuzanta. |
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Chobits is horrid. Try Eve no Jikan, at least it's got some thinking into it.
I watched Eve no Jikan already. Good stuff, but it's not quite the story I was describing above. |
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I'd like to read a SF story where the world is full of commercial robot wives, and where 'real' women have many difficulties for finding husbands, so they fundamentally go through a tough social crisis, while men are just doing well.
As usual it's Japan to the rescue  Oh yeah I know about this anime. I had watched the two first episodes I think. I will go back to it and watch the full series someday. |
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I've been told that viruses exist for linux, but honnestly I've been using GNU/linux for years and years and I have never ever been infected by any single one.
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Even if it can be achieved with commodities (and I don't think it can), there is still scarcity in labor; i.e. it doesn't matter that I am getting this floor for free, i'm certainly not going to cook bread for you with nothing in return. Robot slaves. Sexy Robot Slaves.  Yeah, baby! Lol I'd like to read a SF story where the world is full of commercial robot wives, and where 'real' women have many difficulties for finding husbands, so they fundamentally go through a tough social crisis, while men are just doing well. |
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Then we still have Queensland and the rest of the world left vacant. We are living in a pre scarcity world and we somehow manage to produce scarcity by our very nature. "Post scarcity" is a utopian pipe dream
Utopias are nice, as long as noone tries too hard to make them come true. |
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Oh come on...
Money is not part of the International System, but for godness sake, decimal units are part of the way almost everyone in this world is counting numbers.
So a number such as 12.94388439 should not be confused with anything in any unit we are talking about.
Only people who are very, very unfamilar with numbers could have a problem with that.
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I believe Satoshi was working on this idea for quite a while...looking at the code, I don't think this was something he threw together in a couple months. I think he may have been working on it for several years and took great pains to ensure it was sufficiently evolved such that it wouldn't simply die shortly after its release.
He said he was working on it since 2007. Indeed, found it: http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=13.msg46#msg46 |
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