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Why do you care about Bytecoin at all?
It is 99.9% premined, hardly anybody has ever bought it with money (I'd say 10 people maximum, ever), and therefore its price is meaningless.
(Even Monero price is pretty much meaningless still at this stage.)
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Edit: Monero's other problem is there is not much demand to use it as a currency, thus afaik you have to cash out through Bitcoin (or fiat) thus in many scenarios reducing Monero to Bitcoin's attributes.
I think it is quite the contrary really. I have used Monero for: - wealth storage - international payments and settlements - denomination of contracts - financial services eg options - purchasing kitchen services, singing lessons, gym personal training, pizza, miscellaneous substances (5 "cash-like" things). Random people are more eager to take Monero than Bitcoin in exchange for their services. I also am more interested to offer it because it's anonymous and so easy to use. It is self-evident that I will accept Monero in place of any other currency for all dues to me, in fact started this already nearly a year ago. I don't get why you say there is no demand for XMR as currency.. for me it's more useful than Bitcoin, it can do all the same things but is private. This is not marketing, just an experiential fact. |
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I attended one, and in the beginning was the poll whether it should be videoed. The consensus was negative. The presentations were based on public materials by Fluffypony, me and Thud. The discussion stays between the participants and the NSA.
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Poll shows Rand Paul more competitive against Hillary Cinton than all other republican contenders.
Not a big deal because the primary results are competely cooked. I think it was in California 2008 that every voting district was announced to have voted less than 10% in favor of Ron Paul (and 30%+ of McCain), despite it being common knowledge to everyone there that McCain had next to no support in some districts and Paul had a realistic chance to win the state. Oh well.. Can't really see myself debating the U.S. voting system, that's a bit away from my core   |
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Here is x2.5 time scaling
A certain similarity is clearly apparent, remains to be seen whether it's also predictive. (If so, $88,000 in 2020 here we come!  ) |
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Monero attracts all kinds of people around it. We even had a self-confessed bankster agent joining our nightlife in Berlin! Think about that for a moment  Even Nazis.  By Nazis, do you mean NSDAP? Or the ashke nazi who have projected their own actions to what Nazi stands for to most of people these days? Also is everyone who calls themselves Jew actually a Jew? Khazars in Israel are sterilizing the Ethiopian Jews (who have a longer history of being a part of the Jewry than the Khazars themselves!). Forced sterilization was taught to me to be a Nazi practice, so perhaps Israel=Nazi actually.. No offence if any of the readers supports Israeli policies but you gotta be clueless to condemn the NSDAP for the same actions! |
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there is another radical view from Justus, see here:
remove the block max size limit completely (b/c it's an artificial scarcity), while at the same time introduce a
price discovery mechanism into full nodes p2p network to determine nodes services prices (e.g. validation, txs relay, ect etc)
I may be wrong on details, but this is afaik already used in Monero. And sounds like a good plan. |
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Sorry to pose a stupid question: what are the reasons why the limit cannot be raised?
main reasons that opponents to the increase state are: - centralization - fees discovery price distortion - UTXOs size will increase significantly - Tor could not be used anymore - other things we don't know yet caused by rising block max size. Thanks. Oh ok. I think satoshi indicated that it should be raised, and it's also quite obvious that BTC will not make it to anything more widely used than it is now if it's not raised. Without offchain and centralization. Are there other arguments from the pro-raisers I have missed? |
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Sorry to pose a stupid question: what are the reasons why the limit cannot be raised?
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Monero attracts all kinds of people around it. We even had a self-confessed bankster agent joining our nightlife in Berlin! Think about that for a moment |
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risto dumped 40k xmr into one of my buywalls
yeah is it not shame to be able to serve wm clients both way (not that I believed the incident is even true) * * * But I don't want to collect bonus points from the XMR fanatics that are already too deep invested and therefore eager to speak fanatically. Their problem is not that they are betting the wrong horse (I believe they are exactly right that BTC and XMR are the horses with the highest chance of success, and while both are underpriced, one is 1000 times more underpriced than the other), but that they are disregarding the odds of success, which are slim. This is risky, makes one emotional, and is visible both in the posts here and the sometimes unoptimal trading decisions. If you (legit_chocolateface) are a trader, don't believe in any coin and only want USD profit, this is a challenging thread for you as most people here do not share the trading mindset, and are not interested in it, so your wisdom in trading is not appreciated. People here want Monero to succeed, and some are all in, some have a calculated position. The focus is not to get more USD/BTC in a few days/weeks timeframe but to change the world.I am not against that you want to trade coins and make $$, don't you be hostile to those guys who have other aims! |
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I'm also sick of seeing this monero thread bumped to the front page of the altcoin discussion page by the same few posters. At last it's slightly more bearable than the 15 different monero threads but still almost every other altcoin sticks to the less trafficed altcoin announcement page
I have asked the devs to abandon development, the holders to sell all their coins, the posters to cease posting to this thread, and the community to quit thinking that the coin could have even a microscopic chance to change the world. No avail. I said that it is doomed but I did not see any fucks given  |
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TL; DR: There is nothing new under the sun. What the luddites of today fear, has been proved wrong every time there was any advance in efficiency since the dawn of mankind. Now we even have a huge reserve of pent-up production capacity, because most of the people of today are just working in the system doing nothing of value. With the release of these people, the future looks brighter than most of us can even imagine.
What type of production capacity? Are you talking about manufacturing? Manufacturing is never going to come back. Its replaced by our tech with machines, and other assembly stuff is done with china. The more things you see automated, the more jobs are cut like those cashier people.
How many hours per week do the people in the system professions actually work? I mean spend time on doing something, anything, that makes the fellow humans' life easier. Agriculture does, manufacturing does, distribution of goods does, many but not even close to all services do. How much of your time do you spend on doing anything meaningful? I spend exactly none. All my time is consummated in getting the word out that there IS a life worth living out there, and the problems of the world are non-problems - the symptoms of a cancer that is far bigger already than the whole of your natural system! Multiple times bigger. I have grown to see that there is no easy way to dethrone the current masters. Even keeping yourself out of becoming their slave is reeaally difficult, and getting anyone to reject them is even more so. The methods that would be needed to dethrone them are prone to lead to the "meet the new master, he is the same as the old master" situation. My understanding is that Jesus is coming soon. He promised. The millennial kingdom, "paradise on earth", is the first time in history achievable with the technology we already have, so despite that destroying the kosmos ("world", the slave-market of Satan led by the people who call themselves Jews, controlling the Hollywood, banks, and media nearly worldwide, and having infiltrated many governments such as the USA so that there is scarcely any American voice in any major decision). What I see necessary to understand are: 1) The kosmos=world is currently the domain of Satan (this was verified by Christ under temptations); 2) The Christians are instructed to keep away from the world, which may not always be easy nor free, but worth it, since I havent found any Christian who believes the world's lies yet has a testimony that the Father approves. You can't stick all your senses to shit for decades and expect that your speech and conduct would be not shit as the result. They will be shit. 3) Since Jesus already achieved the victory on the cross, we are empowered, capable and tasked to spread the Gospel of the Kingdom (including both salvation and that stuff, but also that the kosmos is judged and will be finished physically as well, and the leaders of it physically thrown to the lake of fire (hell) where their instigator, Satan, also is) 4) The manifestation of the Kingdom coincides with Jesus' coming: he is coming with all his saints, so if we are martyred during our struggle, the killers will be in for a nasty surprise. 5) The practical change in the natural laws will be that evil is very much contained during the time that Satan is in the pit. I think this does not need to manifest itself in anything more than all the people understand what I already do, and consequently mind their own business instead of attacking each other and causing damage (in all levels of life from stealing of your lunch money to the domino destroying of entire countries in Serbia-Iraq-Libya-Ukraine). Especially as such a wonderful and interesting place is rules by our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and we already know his ruling style never involves force. 6) The unfathomable increase in production (of everything, mainly services since we already have too much of most goods) is made possible by eliminating the negative production of regulations, war, propaganda, unemployment etc. There you only need to work 4 years to earn for the rest of your life, and of course you quit school (even if it was offered and free) since it does not pay off to study 20 years for a 4 year career. As a result, the slavery which currently is on average more than 50 years, is shrunk to beneficial, productive and interesting work of a few years. |
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So my question is, what do we do with the masses in this future of high technological unemployment?
The question is incorrectly framed. The whole picture is below: What stuff do people need for their living? - food - shelter - transportation - physical things - immaterial things - services Physical things have already become unbelievably cheaper compared to 300 years ago, so that ordinary people own infinitely more possessions than people then did, yet the resale value of a typical estate is near zero. Immaterial things are free to duplicate, so they are often free and without IPR's the rest would become even cheaper as well. Food is problematic, because TPTB has a grip on the production, causing bad quality and hindering subsistence farming. I envision a world where the number of manhours spent on farming would somewhat increase from the current, and food would be much better quality than before. Exact ways how to achieve this are more detailed than the scope here. To get high-quality food, human labor is likely irreplaceable, but then again gardening is fun. Transportation is dependent on energy. So as energy becomes cheaper, transportation will as well. It can get more automated as well. Also the communications and 3-D printing reduce the need of physical transportation of people and goods. Shelter has become the most expensive need to satisfy, due to the vast improvement in living standards, and also suffocating regulations. There is much to improve in efficiency and variety in housing conditions, regardless of the standard of luxury and convenience. Services are the balance item. All production in excess of satisfying the physical needs and wants (including the immaterial things) is naturally attracted to services, which are upper-bounded by the number of people, and whose productivity can only moderately be increased by advances in technology. (This is a circular definition, because I define "services" to include the activity that fulfills this criterion, and other production being the domain where progress can increase efficiency by leaps and bounds.) If we accept that the concentration of both financial and knowledge capital leads to the "dystopian" state of affairs that all other production except services was owned by very few, and employing almost nobody, this will not lead to the outcome that everyone else would live in abject poverty and misery. Why would they? The production of everything that people need has increased per capita, and people have a limit how much they can rationally use. For the owner class to further increase their standard of living, they want to employ the "rest of us" in the service sector, and the wages they need to competitively offer, will be spent by the people to acquire the basic needs of living that the owner class is producing. Without this exchange, the owner class would be bereft of their services, and would have nobody to buy their goods, clearly an illogical outcome. I posit that the state is currently consuming most of the resources that could be used for production of services, for their myopic attempts of maintaining "full employment" by employing people in sectors that don't produce anything of value (or even negative value) - in the west the main ones are government bureaucracy, "welfare", "education", "healthcare" and war industry. If we got rid of these, up to 80% of the people would not need to work, yet the production would increase as the monopolies, regulations, etc. would be dissolved. The rich and the knowledgeable would get richer and enjoy life much more, but also the vast majority would see their living standard and especially quality of life improved greatly, after a transition period of course (it is not realistic to assume that a change of this magnitude could happen instantly and learnign to live in freedom will certainly be an inconvenient or even painful experience to many who are not used to it). TL; DR: There is nothing new under the sun. What the luddites of today fear, has been proved wrong every time there was any advance in efficiency since the dawn of mankind. Now we even have a huge reserve of pent-up production capacity, because most of the people of today are just working in the system doing nothing of value. With the release of these people, the future looks brighter than most of us can even imagine.
Further reading: Henry Hazlitt, Economics in One Lesson (1946), ISBN 978-193355021-3 All above-temporary unemployment is always caused by the deficiencies of the system. In the future people will both need to work way less (eg. only a few years in their life, or a few hours in a week) and still enjoy a higher standard of living. The system is just postponing the realization of the gains in productivity that have already happened. |
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I now think that operating in the allegedly illegal market, while you otherwise refrain from violence and fraud, is ethical. And with some caution, not dangerous.
When the law conflicts with morality, you need to either compromise your morality, or disregard the law. (I, for one, am not into watering down my morality, no matter what gains are to be had for doing it, or what dangers await for those not doing it) Original Bastiat quote: When law and morality contradict each other, the citizen has the cruel alternative of either losing his moral sense or losing his respect for the law |
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We had a rare meeting in Berlin with about 69% of CKG in attendance (mainly belonging to me, HH The CEO Riccardo, and The Prince of Soul). The following points were brought to discussion:
1. The game has greater aims than just succeeding as a game. It was conceived as a cryptocurrency propagation tool, and this propagation includes having elements in the game that appeal to existing monero- and cryptousers, and to newcoming ones, and also the possibility to convert the different classes of gamers to crypto owners/users.
2. Our own resources are not fungible nor scalable. There is only a very limited pool of strategic thinking, limited access to coders that can deliver, and despite having some funds, we haven't yet found ways to spend them to increase the EV of the project. We are spending at the optimal pace and that is not very much at present. The later stages of the game will possibly allow prudent spending of additional money.
3. In many projects, the time-to-market is absolutely crucial. This was the thinking concerning this game as well, but now after 7 months into the game already, the market is by and large at the same situation as it was then, and we cannot say that the delays have significantly negatively impacted the likelihood of the eventual success, nor made the payoff from that success smaller. Yet this is debatable of course - the fact that XMR/USD is now 33% as it was when this was started can be used to justify the opposite opinion as well.
4. There is nothing to be gained from intentionally delaying the release of V.4, so it will happen as soon as it is ready, with the planned features. There is no need to inquire me about the schedule as I don't know it. We were unanimous that some past decisions could have worked out better some other way, but there is no reversing them right now, so we should concentrate to continue the project in the way to maximize the success-probability universe from now on.
5. CK market cap persists at about 10% of XMR marketcap. This is actually quite a lot, considering that CK has only a handful of active players and only 100 characters in total! It follows that CK users trust significantly more of their capital in CK than the average Monero owner trusts in XMR. If this trend has any staying power in the future as V.4 is released (and unless the release flops totally in terms of playercount), we soon see the situation where either CK overtakes XMR in terms of marketcap, or the XMR marketcap will have to adjust upwards in accordance.
6. In the longer term, it is an interesting option to develop CK to be the main UI for XMR use, to adopt the blockchain-secured private currency ingame such that the players feel secure to use it IRL circumstances as well in the future, perhaps via the partially-ingame wallet that they already have been used to. It is a very natural path to drive virtual currency adoption (both as a store of value and medium of exchange) from the virtual economy onwards, as there the benefits over other store-of-value and payment options are the most overarching. Virtual currency (BTC) has struggled to gain much foothold in physical daily transactions and is a total curiosity even after 6.5 years.
7. The medium term (V.5-V.7) designing of the game has progressed nicely and many updates have been posted here as well. This is important in order to be able to release these versions quickly after V.4, as these versions are relatively design-heavy and relatively light on the development side as all the essential frontend and backend components have already been released in V.4.
8. CK possesses the same characteristics as cryptocurrency in general does. The way to victory is not always the shortest, nor quickest, nor the most obvious. Instead of committing all to one make it-or-break it attempt, we will have to play along with the market, carefully retaining the position to "strike" and achieve a major success when the circumstances present themselves. Instead of overcommitting to rally the troops when there is no software available, I happily spend the paused time in making sure the position is as good as possible when it comes.
9. It is possible to trade most of game resources now, but I would exhort everyone to concentrate in their other projects still for some more time, because it will turn very interesting in this game when V.4 comes out, and then it will consume a lot of everyone's time. At that point everyone has a realistic way to contribute to the game's success, and at that point I would like everyone to be there, doing their part.
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If you do the 1:2.5 time scaling as well, the slide to the previous major bottom and the situation now look somewhat similar Well I am not completely joking. The maturity brings inertia. The influx of VC money to the Bitcoinsphere is almost out-of-whack with the current valuation of the coin. A few explanations come to mind (none to all of them may be correct): - VC's are stupid - the gov/banks are behind all of it and want to destroy the coin, and it's not a big deal how many dollars they must create to accomplish it - the above, except they are not necessary up to killing it, just gaining a stranglehold as they did with gold and morphed it into fiat in a century-long process in 1871-1971 - The valuation is low and the people in-the-know see a good chance of reigniting the mania, gaining their investments back nicely - The valuation is kept low by hook and crook, the infrastructure is being built, and also massive amounts of physical bitcoins acquired by the key players in the period of public insecurity If I had this information and had cash, diversifying into bitcoins now woudl be a prudent action. Don't buy too much, and please remember to think through the storage arrangements, preferably diversifying that as well if the sum is non-trivial. |
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I found the meetup in Berlin quite productive. It was actually the only physical gathering ever with 3 largest CK(G) holders present and able to discuss both the immediate and the most long-term strategies for the game, in depth without interruption. The public meeting also proved to increase the understanding among the key principals, and yes - some smallholders and newcomers were present as well (For me the goals for attending the meeting were mostly interaction with people I already know, and they were fulfilled nicely) |
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