The growth rate is explosive !  I am down for the long haul, and hope all of you are with me on this one. |
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Are we looking at the same chart sir? Have you not seen the trend? As the difficulty goes up SO HAS THE PRICE. Do I have to EXPLAIN the graph to you? Correlation != causation. Difficulty jumped what, 60% last time, yet we're at lower prices than we were last period. Why aren't miners holding onto their coins until prices increase? I'll answer you: because miners don't get to set the fuckin' price. EDIT:Miners are only going to sell their coins for whatever THEY think they're worth.. If people don't like their prices, then they can't participate in the new bitcoin market, simple as that.. And whats wrong with college students running 5970's? Anyone should be able to mine, it shouldn't be restricted to the super nerdy, or the elite. Are you serious? Relax. I'm not being elitist, I'm merely pointing out that most kids in dorm rooms don't typically pay directly for utility bills - in their mind the electricity is "free". If they already put together the box with part of their student loan money or grant money, then in their mind they have no "costs" involved and therefore they will always mine cheaper than you or I will. So you aren't going to have any collusion between miners to not sell their BTC below a certain threshold, and even if you did - as I said, newly minted Bitcoins make up a tiny fraction of the BTC that change hands each day, so the effect on the market would be negligible. You can point out the trend all you like, but betting the farm on the fact that the price is going to follow difficulty to the sky is a fool's bet. The only reason the market is in the dumps is because of recent hackings, scrutiny by the media, and bitcoins sudden thrust into the main stream. In the future when more people sign on to bitcoin, and the technology is truly understood. People will only have a few things to go by when looking into bitcoins value. Which are: 1. How many coins are currently in existence. ( Supply) 2. How interchangeable is the currency itself. (Businesses and Exchanges, and overall DEMAND) 3. How hard is it to make new currency ( MINING). Other than that everything else is hog wash. |
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Your graph hasn't done anything to demonstrate that your assertion that price follows difficulty is correct.
Majority of buyers don't give a shit about mining difficulty/costs, and so it doesn't factor in to what they're willing to pay. Higher mining costs might cause more miners to hold on to what they mine, marginally affecting supply (the coins mined each day are a tiny fraction of the coins that change hands every day), but at the end of the day a Bitcoin is only worth whatever you can sell it to someone for.
And there's always gonna be some punk kid at college in a dorm with 3 5970s who doesn't care about his costs and just wants a dimebag. Unk, Angelus and others are therefore correct - the price doesn't follow difficulty.
Are we looking at the same chart sir? Have you not seen the trend? As the difficulty goes up SO HAS THE PRICE. Do I have to EXPLAIN the graph to you? EDIT:Miners are only going to sell their coins for whatever THEY think they're worth.. If people don't like their prices, then they can't participate in the new bitcoin market, simple as that.. And whats wrong with college students running 5970's? Anyone should be able to mine, it shouldn't be restricted to the super nerdy, or the elite. Are you serious? |
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This reminds me of people who post on forums that focus on homebrew game development, along the lines of "hey i have a great idea for this mmorpg we just need programmers and artists and servers and i wrote the story with my friend it took a whole week. i will be managing this product just need people willing to help out it is a really good idea guys! also i came up with a name for it."
Here is the real question: Why would anybody with the skills to do this help you? You do not bring anything to the table, the project would be better off without you. If you really wanted it to succeed, you would be happy to have someone who knows what they are doing run it, and just work at promoting them. Not for any compensation, either.
How do you know that this guy doesn't have the money to pay the team. And if he doesn't have the money, what makes you think he can't get funding for his idea? Pessimism only hurts our community. If he wants to dream let him dream.. Obviously people aren't going to work for free. |
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So basically every broke person that just found out about bitcoin on this forum is trying to make the coin crash, so the difficulty can drop, and so they can buy in at pennys? IT'S not dropping ANY TIME SOON.. Neither is the RATE.
please don't impugn my motives. i've likely been with bitcoin longer than you have, and i have a very large collection of coins. i have no plans to buy (or sell) any anytime soon, and i don't have an account on any of the exchanges. it's silly that i have to say that to make a factual point. i was not making a prediction about bitcoin prices or difficulty. i was simply correcting factual errors in your post, and i wouldn't have bothered except that you've been spreading misinformation in many discussions. i'm concerned that novices and potential bitcoin users might actually believe you. bitcoin has many strengths (though i'm no particular fan of the presently prominent block chain, given its particular, path-dependent history, the economic context it occupies, and the false promotion it has received). let it succeed without vigorously promoting it with either errors or lies. otherwise, you come across fairly transparently as the kind of pump-and-dumper who spams yahoo finance about penny stocks. It's hard to see anyone's true colors on this site. The guy who made this post did it to promote his crap forum, and here we are debating your motives. I never attacked you personally, but me and you both know that that's whats going on here. People are taking advantage of the open source nature of this community, to slant the odds to their favor through forceful methods. I was technically wrong about the difficulty level never going down, and I'm sorry if I misinformed anyone, but what I meant was that if the projects hold up, and everything keeps exploding the way it has, I don't see difficulty ever going down.. But that really isn't a bad thing for you, that harder it is to mine them, the more your currency is worth. Here's the chart, while there have been a few downswings in difficulty, the line is predictable, and in steady upward motion.  But overall you were right, Bitcoin difficulty can drop, but it's highly unlikely to ever drop to the point it was even 2 months ago. There is simply to many people signing on to the system now (myself included) |
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and possibly some quality private security.
Possibly? The Bitcoin economy is what, $180m right now, in it's infancy? You think this alleged Bitcoin 2.0 is going to take off and be sitting on $180m worth of junk silver and you'd "possibly" need some security? OP seems to have missed the point completely - the charm of Bitcoin is it's complete and utter non-reliance on a central authority to give the units value. If you're going to have a central authority minting the units and giving them value, why fuck around with a block chain at all? Just start a paypal-esque service where people can mail you junk silver and you credit their account. Done and done. Thats so true the system isn't even necc. if the OP got his "Bitcoin 2.0". People are having such a hard time believing that these coins have true value. Unfortunately we can't explain it to them with every single post we write (we would be writing forever), so hopefully with all the sarcasm and narcissism, they will get the hint to simply do their RESEARCH. It's not hard, just DO THE RESEARCH. I know 90% of you people out there are lazy, but you can't expect people on this board to take you seriously, if you don't even understand the basic laws of this currency. |
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People completely lack reading comprehension.
Again. For the zillionth time.
~250k bitcoins are with mtgox, they never left.
~650 bitcoins were transferred out by Kevin, and are now in a clearcoin account which is acting as escrow until this is all figured out
Why is this so hard to understand? I really don't get it...
It's not the trolls trying to push the currency down are the ones peddling the disinformation. Good post. |
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so the plan is to resurrect the Silver Certificate? but not printed by the US government?
ummm... that's been tried (except with gold), hasn't it?
didn't work out too well, did it?
silly.
Yes it has http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-goldThe beauty of bitcoin is that no human controls it, no matter how many trolls, scammers, spammers, dealers, or thugs sign on to the currency, in the end they DON'T CONTROL IT. Thats whats really pissing people off  . |
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The reason why it won't happen is because the difficulty level keeps going up, so every day it becomes more and more expensive to mine, thus giving the coins value through their creators.
you say this many times, but it's simply incorrect except as a complex psychological matter that, as applied to any specific context, requires empirical validation. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunk_costsyou've also claimed that difficulty cannot go down; this is incorrect too. it can and has. So basically every broke person that just found out about bitcoin on this forum is trying to make the coin crash, so the difficulty can drop, and so they can buy in at pennys? IT'S not dropping ANY TIME SOON.. Neither is the RATE. They are trading at $25 a coin on ebay FFS http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=bitcoin&_sacat=See-All-CategoriesThis is after the whole mtgox thing, they were almost at $40 before this whole bullshit apocalypto crash happened. I want people to buy-in and participate, but the way that so many have gone about this has been so childish it's made me sick to my stomach. |
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You can follow it with this: http://bitcoinwatch.com/ and look at the block statistics. But it's like 2016 blocks per difficulty increase and the network is doing 260 blocks per day... just a bit under 8 days now. Basically the faster we do those 2016 blocks, the more it cranks the difficulty... if we did it 50% slower, the difficulty will fall, which will never happen considering the number of new machines being added each and every day. So I'm really curious who has the intestinal fortitude to keep mining if: 1) The exchange rate stagnates or (ahhhh) goes down! 2) The difficulty rate keeps going up 3) Scandal persists??? 4) Other stuff, eg, inlaws can't stand the noise, heat, etc., Who cares if the scandal persists, you clowns don't understand that exchangers, and bitcoin have nothing to do with each other. I wish all the exchangers would just go away, and let us build our economy up. The difficulty is going to keep going up, and the miners who are getting started now will be the ones mining in the future. It will get to the point where normal people will not be able to get into it AT ALL, because the mining market will be dominated by its earliest adopters. But what is so wrong with that? |
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While I think that I support Mt. Gox at this time, pending any major disclosures of facts, a totally new site may NOT be a good thing. I know these guys are working their asses off right now, but it's not easy to test something that comprehensive in a few days time.
Sometimes with code, the simpler it is, the better . I highly doubt they are overhauling their ENTIRE system, but a new look is normal for company's who through periods of bad P.R .This hacking will only make this community stronger, and maybe people will finally realize that this currency is here to stay. |
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In my opinion, bitcoin 1.0 will fail. Yes, I may be wrong, this thread is not to debate that. This thread is for my idea for Bitcoin 2.0 which I am not ambitious enough to head myself as I want to focus on my family. I realize some of you feel bitcoin is backed. However, too many people want a currency backed by something tangible. Enter " junk silver". The junk silver I would recommend having back Bitcoin 2.0 would be pre 1932-1964 quarters and 1946-1964 dimes as they have the same metal makeup. This solves the problem of a tangible backing. In addition, this all of a sudden makes every coin shop in the world a distributed exchange which we all understand the need for. However, this idea WOULD likely require a central repository to hold the junk silver dimes and quarters UNLESS some specific ironclad deal was worked out with coin dealers. Deposit or buy a pre 1965 dime and get 1 bitcoin 2.0 from the central exchange or the coin dealer who has bitcoin. Buy or deposit a 1964 or older quarter and get 2.50 bitcoin 2.0. They can then be traded, purchased, and sold anonymously just like bitcoin 1.0. Your junk silver becomes digitized. But at any time you can withdraw it for junk silver. It will ALWAYS have value, be reasonably stable, and have distributed exchanges yet still have most of the benefits of bitcoin 1.0. I hope someone proceeds with this or a like idea. Before I read the rest of your trash post I want to ask you, WHY it's going to fail. Tell that to the hundreds of thousands of people who have put in thousands of hours of man power and original thought, and millions of dollars into this system, that till this point is indestructible. Tell them that it's going to fail.. |
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That's why I'm having my place of employment do direct deposit with BTC from now on.
You got them to do that for you? WOW NICE !  |
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I just got interested in Bitcoin recently, and opened a Mt. Gox account, but hadn't done anything with it because I was still figuring out how to secure my bitcoin wallet and stash before I started actually acquring bitcoins. I'm glad now that I did. <wry grin>
I expect to start acquiring bitcoins soon by selling some stuff on a Bitcoin auction site. I may hold off for a few months before I try to convert any to dollars or euros; my real interest in Bitcoin is to use it as an alternate currency for buying and selling, not to speculate on currency shifts. (No interest in channeling George Soros here.) When I do, I hope that there will be more choices, and that Mt. Gox and the other existing sites will have either cleaned up their miserably inadequate security practices or gone out of business.
Thats the whole point buddy, bitcoin is not for playing HYIP with the markets, its for revolutionizing the Internet as we know it. You have the right idea, and for that you will only have more Bitcoins at the end of all this. |
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AWESOME IDEA. DON'T PAY ATTENTION TO THE HATING ASS TROLLS. THEY DESPISE BITCOIN, AND IDEAS LIKE YOURS ONLY FORTIFY THE ECONOMY THAT MUCH MORE !
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Problem is, it doesn't matter how hard it is to mine them. There are just as many coins being created, whether 100 miners made them or 150. Why should people pay more for bitcoin just because more miners were necessary to create them?
Now the bitcoins themselves are more secure, the higher the difficulty level. So perhaps there IS some rationale to BTC price going up with difficulty...
I don't think you understand angelus, eventually it will take massive amounts of computing power to generate bitcoins. That IS the value you're looking for right there. Try telling someone who just invested 20thousand dollars on mining equipment,hundreds in electrical costs, and months of his time, that his coins are worthless. |
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EVERYTHING IS STILL WITH MTGOX.
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The reason why it won't happen is because the difficulty level keeps going up, so every day it becomes more and more expensive to mine, thus giving the coins value through their creators. If you ask a miner how much their bitcoins are worth, they will all tell you around $30-$40 a piece. That is a fair price considering the mining difficultys/electricity/time it is taking to make these things. That is with the current difficulty level, and awareness of the coins. If you were to ask someone who knows nothing about bitcoins, what they are worth, they would simply say "worthless". It's all about perception in life, one mans trash is the next mans treasure, one mans pain is the next mans pleasure. |
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no problem with that, bitcoin IS too hard, it's only for the top 1% smartest people on earth. that is almost 60 million ...  We're top 1% . God I feel bad for humanity if were all at the top 1% lol . Everyone always tells me "Brian your much smarter than anyone else I know, your on the top percentile", And I myself HATE IT, cause I don't feel like I should hold the title of the top 1-10%. I don't deserve it quite honestly, but it's just that everyone else is so stupid, that they make us geeks shine. |
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You forgot Ebay, which is the one I will be using..
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