Yes the proceedings are the same as the main thread.
We are not doing escrow, but i have been verified by John K, and up until the money has actually been spent, you are always entitled to a refund.
The shipping policy is first come first served so these will be at the end of the queue. That said, there shouldn't be much of a delay between first and last package, as the boards will all be done as one batch.
Payments can be BTC or PAYPAL
Payment window is as soon as possible, but not super urgent, lets say two days.

 

Yes overclocking will be a parameter in cgminer. We are also looking at push button controls on the actual board itself for overclocking and voltage control.

None of us want more bad shit to go down. I know everyone is shaken by all the crap that has happened. That is specifically why we need the good vibes. Trust me, i too am wary. It will be really sad if Bitfury turns into another BFL / Avalon scenario, but at this point i am choosing to give them the benefit of the doubt and take them on their word that they will deliver. If they do, its exciting times ahead.

I appreciate your concern Voxelot, and its good seeing you not wanting people to suffer. None of us do. We just need to keep the vibes up. 

Yeah sorry i haven't had anything new for you for a while. The latest update is that the proto boards have been made and sent. We will hopefully get them tomorrow, but may spill into next week. Definitely by next week you will see photos of the boards. 

Yeah sorry that wasn't clear. It refers to an assembled miner rather than raw chips as flemeister has said. I figured most people bidding would have been following the thread where the stages of our progress have been laid out. I should have made it clearer though. These units are not in hand. We are waiting on chips from Bitfury set to arrive in October.

Cheers

Barntech

OK

Shit has gone crazy. This has, up until the last few pages, been a very enjoyable, inclusive, constructive thread. It's a real shame that it has become so negative.

Maybe it was a mistake to send the last boards to auction. I guess i would have avoided this unfortunate little spaz out if i hadn't. I have explained my reasoning for doing so several times and i stand by it. We are at the end of the chips, our manufacture is going to cost more than we thought, and people are willing to pay. The extra money will make sure we get everything done exactly when we need to. No one is being forced to bid on those miners. The Group Buy was open for a long time and everyone had a chance to buy in.

I'm sorry to say that basically this thread has turned from an exciting forum for discussion not only about this project but also other interesting facets of the bitcoin world, into a rather bitter troll fest almost entirely because of voxelot. Voxelot, you are entitled to your ideas and opinions, and you are entitled to voice them wherever you like, but you have to take responsibility for the vibe you create, and here you have turned something positive and exciting into a bit of a downer really. Come on man, cheer up. Stop bringing the bad vibes.

We have been working tirelessly on making this project work for the benefit of all of us. I have been constantly here answering everyone's questions. I have been constantly honest about every step of the process. I have not been secretive, misleading or deceitful.

Voxelot has been spreading some misinformation.

Firstly, our prices did not rise did not jump because of the chip price rise from Bitfury. The chip price rise from Bitfury happened at the very beginning of the group buy. We were very lucky to get a reel at the old prices, thanks entirely to Dave at megabigpower for honoring the fact that we had been in communication before the Bitfury price rise happened. We very nearly did not get it, and this whole thing would have not happened. We are lucky to have these for these prices. ALL of the chips in this group buy were sold after the previous chip price was no longer available. We did not raise our price.

The entire concept of price rise is about second and third reels. If it had not happened, we would probably be nearing the end of a second reel by now. In manufacturing, things cost less in bulk. If we got to a second and a third reel, it would have cost less to produce your boards for you. The price rise meant that we were stuck doing only one reel. This is why our budget became tight, this is why the last 32 miners (including 16 of our own) went to auction. People thankfully decided that they are willing to pay around $400 for something we were previously selling for $300. We have a bit of extra money to cover production costs now, and maybe in the end we will end up with a little profit for all our time, energy and expertise.

I hope those of you who feel that the auction was a bad idea can understand where we are coming from. In the end it, it is helping the project and it is helping us, and people are volunteering the money, so i don't see what the fuss is.

Now with regards to the concept of other people auctioning or selling boards before they actually have them, again Voxelot has spread misinformation here. I did not tell people they can't do it, i asked if people could please not do it while we are still finalizing our remaining orders, and then i put the question to the community as to how we are collectively feel this issue should be dealt with. This to me is the fairest possible approach. Voxelot, i get that you have opinions and like rocking the boat, but if you are going to do it, at least do it with solid facts.

OK, now hopefully we can get on with being excited about this project and using this forum for constructive discussions of interesting ideas. Wouldn't that be nice?

I will be reopening orders for some more thumbs once the dreaded auction is complete.

Barntech

OK here's where we're at.

Choadmeyer	4 @ $410
alwayzgame	4 @ $400
bcollan	1 @ $400
ampu	1 @ $400
Datto	1 @ $400
thegoldbug	4 @ $400
Greeny	2 @ $390
monkeynutts	1 @ $380
simon66	1 @ $380
stringer	2 @ $380
monkeynutts	1 @ $380
yunk3r	1 @ $380
Stinky_Pete	2 @ $370
fhh	4 @ $370
r7970	2 @ $370
picbb1	1 @ $370

---

picbb1	1 @ $370
pkarc	5 @ $370
realestone	2 @ $360
Polyatomic	1 @ $360
Warhawk187	4 @ $360
Hephaist0s	2 @ $360
voxelot	1 @ $350
BenTuras	4 @ $350
picbb1	1 @ $350
m5	1 @ $350

Here's the latest. Going to bed now. Catch you all in a few hours 

Choadmeyer	4 @ $410
alwayzgame	4 @ $400
bcollan	1 @ $400
ampu	1 @ $400
Datto	1 @ $400
Greeny	1 @ $390
monkeynutts	1 @ $380
simon66	1 @ $380
stringer	2 @ $380
monkeynutts	1 @ $380
Stinky_Pete	2 @ $370
fhh	4 @ $370
r7970	1 @ $370
r7970	1 @ $370
picbb1	2 @ $370
pkarc	5 @ $370

---

realestone	2 @ $360
Polyatomic	1 @ $360
Warhawk187	4 @ $360
Hephaist0s	2 @ $360
yunk3r	1 @ $360
voxelot	1 @ $350
BenTuras	4 @ $350
picbb1	1 @ $350
m5	1 @ $350

Which brings me to the topic of reselling Drillbit equipment.

A member of our group recently put up an auction for Drillbit Boards. I have asked them to take it down and they have graciously agreed.

The main issue here right now is that we have not yet ourselves completed our orders for this group buy. We are almost there but not quite yet. There is still an auction running for the final 32 Drillbit Boards, and beyond that, there will be further orders for Drillbit Thumbs and potentially some extra raw chips available. Until we have finalized everything on our end, i am requesting that people please don't put up any sales or auctions of our stuff. I will announce when we are locked in with all our orders.

What happens then is an interesting conundrum. I must say i have found the general trend of people buying pre-orders for stuff and then selling them on at a profit having never even received them an odd and kind of unpleasant one. It happened so intensely with BFL pre-orders being sold for up to 10 times the original prices, and a fair bit with Avalon stuff too. Personally i find it a weird vibe. That said, it is a free market, and if you buy something, then in theory it is yours to sell, or is it? Granted, if you have the thing in your hand, then of course, go sell it, do whatever you like with it, it's yours, but if what you have bought is a future promise of getting a device that hasn't even been built yet, then i believe it becomes a bit of a grey area. I'm not saying i really have an answer to this, just putting it out there.

I think one of the biggest issues i have with this kind of thing is that this equipment is built for mining bitcoin, it is built for bitcoin enthusiasts who want to own it, have it and use it to do what it is made for, it is not built for middle-people to buy, never actually hold and use, and sell on for a profit. Perhaps that's all a bit naive and idealistic, but that's how i see it, that's why i'm doing it, to help people be a part of the bitcoin network (which i truly believe in), not just tangentially profit from it. But hey, one of the major draw cards of being a bitcoin miner is that you can make money from it, so i realize there's a bit of a contradiction there. I guess the difference is how you make the money.

So many of us have been burnt by the overall ponzi-schemeness of the whole thing that it would make me really sad to see the Drillbit stuff go down the same road.

But... we are a community here, and we have all chucked in to make this happen so i'd like to put it to everyone and see what people think about resale policies. As i see it there are two main ways it could go: (all of this of course being before the units are delivered, once you've got them, you can do what you like)

1. No resales whatsoever. If you want a refund, write to us and you will get it. We will resell it. (note, there will be a point of no return when we actually have to spend the money and will no longer be able to refund it, i will announce when this is happening)
2. Total free for all. Everyone can buy, sell and auction their preorders as they choose.

What do you guys reckon? Interested to see what your thoughts are.

Barntech

Hey guys.

I have been crunching the numbers and we have decided to release another 16 8-chip Drillbit Boards to auction. We had initially set aside a certain amount for ourselves, but things are looking tight and the extra money may be necessary for the coming stages of the process. Soon we will need to be buying all the parts for the boards, getting the boards themselves made, and getting the boards assembled. Better to have a buffer zone of a bit of extra money than a few extra miners; we can't pay our manufacturing expenses with miners. (wouldn't it be nice if we could)

I wasn't sure what the fairer approach was between adding these to this auction that already exists, or making a separate auction, and in the end decided that adding them to the current one is the better way to go. This means that more of the people who have already bid on this auction will end up getting miners. So there are 32 miners up for grabs here. There are 15 hours left to go. If anyone else is keen, please place a bid if you like.

Once all the boards are done, we will be reopening orders of Drillbit Thumbs. It will be in a general format of x amount at the set rate of $99 and the final x amount at auction. I will update all the details before i open up the orders again.

So the current standings look like this with winning bids above the line (please correct me if i have mistyped your bid)

Choadmeyer	4 @ $410
alwayzgame	4 @ $400
bcollan	1 @ $400
ampu	1 @ $400
Datto	1 @ $400
Greeny	1 @ $390
monkeynutts	1 @ $380
simon66	1 @ $380
stringer	2 @ $380
Stinky_Pete	2 @ $370
fhh	4 @ $370
r7970	1 @ $370
r7970	1 @ $370
picbb1	2 @ $370
realestone	2 @ $360
Polyatomic	1 @ $360
Warhawk187	3 @ $360

---

Warhawk187	1 @ $360
Hephaist0s	2 @ $360
yunk3r	1 @ $360
voxelot	1 @ $350
BenTuras	4 @ $350
picbb1	1 @ $350
m5	1 @ $350

Hey guys.

Ok i'm going to break things up into separate posts in the interest of keeping thing clear and separate.

Firstly, regarding our auction, i have been crunching the numbers and we have decided to release another 16 8-chip Drillbit Boards to auction. We had initially set aside a certain amount for ourselves, but things are looking tight and the extra money may be necessary for the coming stages of the process. Soon we will need to be buying all the parts for the boards, getting the boards themselves made, and getting the boards assembled. Better to have a buffer zone of a bit of extra money than a few extra miners; we can't pay our manufacturing expenses with miners. (wouldn't it be nice if we could)

I wasn't sure what the fairer approach was between adding these to the auction that already exists, or making a separate auction, and in the end decided that adding them to the current one is the better way to go. This means that more of the people who have already bid on that auction will end up getting miners. So there are 32 miners up for grabs there. There are 15 hours left to go. If anyone else is keen, please hop over there and place a bid if you like.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=281996.0

Once all the boards are done, we will be reopening orders of Drillbit Thumbs. It will be in a general format of x amount at the set rate of $99 and the final x amount at auction. I will update all the details before i open up the orders again.

Almost there guys.

Yes, haven't quite got to shipping yet, but don't worry, we'll travel them in cosy fluffy clouds of softness. 

With regards to greed and all the chatter that has been going on here about that, here is my little rant from the Auction page. On the scale of greedy snakeyness in the Bitcoin mining world, i'd say we are about as low down the rung as it gets. If we wanted to go down the greed road, we could have built a pretty website and started selling bullshit preorders like everyone else. Instead we have gone open source group buy; a shared venture including all of you members of this bitcoin community. We are not making much money. We do it for the love.

Basically we are working with what we've got. Trust me, if we could get these out to you tomorrow we would. We are unfortunately entirely dependent on Bitfury getting chips to us. If the early October delivery comes true, there is a good chance that we may just be able to be some of the lucky few who get in early and actually make some money. As Neiq has said, that's how it works, a few people get units early enough to profit, everyone else chases the magical window and doesn't quite get there, or buys in (read block erupter USBs) without ever having a chance at ROI, just because its fun and exciting. Hell i have some of those; terrible investment, but their pretty cool. I also have a giant power munching 3 GH/s GPU rig costing me more than it makes, just because i like it and find it fun.

So i guess yeah, if your main motivation is a sound investment, you'd probably do better to buy shares in a bank or a mining company (as in iron ore mining, not bitcoin).... or, just buy some Bitcoin and hope the price jumps. But if you are excited about being a part of this crazy Bitcoin thing as it's springing into being, and are willing to take a gamble that may pay off, then get a miner, get ten. Thats how i'm approaching it. I too am in it for the thrill of the chase. I do it because i love it. Setting up this group buy and short run manufacture has basically become my unpaid full time job right now, and i'm not complaining, i chose to do it and i'm having fun doing it. If i was billing my hours spent however, i'd be down a whole lot of money.

On that topic, basically we have costed out a manufacturing scenario that leaves us making very little money. (largely because the boards we have created are not cutting corners like many others out there, they will be quality tech). This is not some giant money making venture for us. We would all make a lot more money just doing regular jobs. But that's not the point. There has been some talk about succumbing to the capitalist greed just like BFL and Avalon, who have basically rinsed people for millions of dollars. I find that comparison pretty rogue. In the end we are putting the final few miners to auction to generate a bit of extra cash to help us see this project through smoothly. At most we'll end up with a couple thousand extra, which could easily disappear into some unforeseen manufacture expense, or import duty or whatever. Hardly capitalist greed at its worst.

The miners are going to auction and people are paying what they are willing to pay. No one is being forced into anything. If you believe that $300 is a more reasonable price for the boards we are making, they were available at that price for weeks, the opportunity was there.

Ok, sorry for the long rant. I hope everyone feels happy and comfortable with things. Please send me a PM if you would like to have anything further explained or discussed.

Yours in Mine Love 

Barntech

Looking at several options for future chips. 

Hey Voxelot

Have definitely considered it. It is indeed annoying that we are stuck at the mercy of the larger players who are producing these chips. It would indeed be great to get our own "grassroots" chips going, but it is no small matter. The main issue is the cost. We're looking at something like 2 or 3 million dollars. Try setting up a group buy for that one. Then of course you are looking at some very skilled people spending a rather large amount of time designing the things. Then it would be somewhere around 6 months to a year if you were to properly test and manufacture them. People are getting it done quicker by rushing everything through because this whole game is about getting there first. This is probably why BFL came so late, they stuffed their chip design and hard to start again half way through.

Basically, it would be awesome to do, but would require serious investors willing to take pretty serious risks. I guess this is why people who have gone and done that want to make as much as they can out of it, unfortunately screwing everyone in the process.

That said, if anyone out there is willing to front 3 mil, Dan our engineer has the skills to design a chip. Anyone? 

USB Drillbit Thumbs are still available. I'll put them back up soon, once we get the last of the Drillbit Boards sorted out. There will still be quite a few up for grabs.

Yes i'll get a queue list sorted soon. Its on my list. 

We will probably have a few bare chips left. PM me if you are interested.

Agreed. A few good points there. Thanks for your input Neiq

Basically we are working with what we've got. Trust me, if we could get these out to you tomorrow we would. We are unfortunately entirely dependent on Bitfury getting chips to us. If the early October delivery comes true, there is a good chance that we may just be able to be some of the lucky few who get in early and actually make some money. As Neiq has said, that's how it works, a few people get units early enough to profit, everyone else chases the magical window and doesn't quite get there, or buys in (read block erupter USBs) without ever having a chance at ROI, just because its fun and exciting. Hell i have some of those; terrible investment, but their pretty cool. I also have a giant power munching 3 GH/s GPU rig costing me more than it makes, just because i like it and find it fun.

So i guess yeah, if your main motivation is a sound investment, you'd probably do better to buy shares in a bank or a mining company (as in iron ore mining, not bitcoin).... or, just buy some Bitcoin and hope the price jumps. But if you are excited about being a part of this crazy Bitcoin thing as it's springing into being, and are willing to take a gamble that may pay off, then get a miner, get ten. I too am in it for the thrill of the chase. I do it because i love it. Setting up this group buy and short run manufacture has basically become my unpaid full time job right now, and i'm not complaining, i chose to do it and i'm having fun doing it. If i was billing my hours spent however, i'd be down a whole lot of money.

On that topic, basically we have costed out manufacture that leaves us making very little money. This is not some giant money making venture for us. We would all make a lot more money just doing regular jobs. But that's not the point. There has been some talk about succumbing to the capitalist greed just like BFL and Avalon, who has basically rinsed people for millions of dollars. I find that comparison pretty rogue. In the end we are putting the final miners to auction to generate a bit of extra cash to help us see this project through smoothly. At most we'll end up with a couple grand extra, which could easily disappear into some unforeseen manufacture expense, or import duty or whatever. Hardly capitalist greed at its worst.

The miners are going to auction and people are paying what they are willing to pay. No one is being forced into anything. If you believe that $300 is a more reasonable price for the boards we are making, they were available at that price for weeks, the opportunity was there.

Ok, sorry for the long rant. I hope everyone feels happy and comfortable with things. Please send me a PM if you would like to have anything further explained or discussed.

Yours in Mine Love 

Barntech

Current standings are here. We are potentially going to open this up to make some more boards available so stay tuned. Regarding prices and ASIC developers, Voxelot, i tend to agree with your sentiments. I will write a more detailed response in the main thread. In the meantime, happy bidding everyone. We're almost there. 

Choadmeyer	4 @ $410
alwayzgame	4 @ $400
bcollan	1 @ $400
ampu	1 @ $400
monkeynutts	1 @ $380
simon66	1 @ $380
stringer	2 @ $380
Stinky_Pete	2 @ $370

---

fhh	4 @ $370
r7970	2 @ $370
picbb1	2 @ $370
realestone	2 @ $360
Polyatomic	1 @ $360
Warhawk187	4 @ $360
Hephaist0s	2 @ $360
yunk3r	4 @ $360
voxelot	1 @ $350
BenTuras	4 @ $350
picbb1	1 @ $350
m5	1 @ $350