MtGox said: There is pretty strong evidence that this guy was involved in some theft of BTC. I'm trying to talk to him to make absolutely certain.
What more of an explanation does MtGox owe us? We aren't the legal system he's subject to. If because of this we somehow think MtGox will rip us off too, then we may exercise our right to withdraw our balances and discontinue using his services. I haven't seen Baron make even a halfway credible or coherent argument as to how these accusations don't have any merit If my MtGox money disappeared, I would have no problem coherently explaining how I got it there, in two sentences or less, to the satisfaction of an attorney, a judge, or a jury. The whole idea that $45k can't buy a lawyer is nonsense. I have hired lawyers for plenty of things and doubt I've ever spent anywhere close $45k in my entire life on lawyers. A small legal fee just to come up with a coherent letter to Jed, cc: in plain view on the forum, explaining in plain English why the funds should be returned would be priceless... if in fact they should be returned to him. Here in America that would cost no more than a couple hundred bucks to have prepared by a law office. If that's too much to ask from Baron, well, to hell with him. If Baron needs to lead us on a wild goose chase and make all this crap about "uh, what's a block chain"... cheers to Jed for doing what he did. If I were Jed, I would stash that money somewhere safe and keep my mouth shut, until someone stepped forward with a credible claim to it. It sounds like that's exactly what he is doing. casascius, you still miss the main point. For what concerns any country's justice the value or worth of the stolen "thing" is zero. Go on a claim that one stole you 45K LRUSD, 9K BTC or go saying that your neighbor assaulted your Farmville has the same legal value: NONE. At best qualifies for data theft, but you don't get your "money" back or any compensation... to not even mention you'll probably be accused also of tax evasion, subversive economics, parallel market... |
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I only used mtgox twice in the paypal times. Then it was too much hassle with getting LR so I started using bitcoinmarket. Still using it.
Same here. I can't figure what's the use of LR anyway, taken you can't directly either deposit or withdraw from it. dwdollar's site seams better. Waiting for see the new one on on 1st March. |
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The nick's there, but probably Agent Johnson is sitting by the keyboard.  Sorry man, my bet would be that Agent Bob is on duty tonight. Johnson opened that shampoo factory and doesn't work overnight now.  |
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If you get a visit from the mib with a warrant and a penalty of jail for saying anything would you post on the forum ?
From what I know of, mtgox isn't American, so he wouldn't get any MIB visitors. At Europe investigation police wears jeans and jackets... The US invaded panama for a reason . Also mt gox has a bank account at chase which is an american bank. Jizzz man! You need to stop watching those movies! Or the aliens will pick you up for an anal probe!  You may find mtgox at Freenode #bitcoin-otc right now, the nick is at least parking there |
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Baron,
Pongamia is a tree used to produce biofuel... such institute would probably be from where the tree is from: India.
I normally see him on IRC, I'll look on Freenode if Jed is on.
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If you get a visit from the mib with a warrant and a penalty of jail for saying anything would you post on the forum ?
From what I know of, mtgox isn't American, so he wouldn't get any MIB visitors. At Europe investigation police wears jeans and jackets... |
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No. I think everybody here's waiting for some words from him.
If mtgox didn't know that this forum thread blew up that could have reputation repercussion...well... It's already having, hadn't you noticed some people starting to trade BTC here in the forum because "mt gox isn't liable"? That's my main concern, and seeing this mtgox's silence isn't helping! |
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So Mt. Gox is obviously acting on someone else's behalf, unless they have been scammed themselves, but how stupid would it be for the scammer to hold a large account at the place he is scamming.
Who is Baron's accuser here, who is Mt. Gox acting on behalf in blocking his account? Perhaps that party would have the balls to put there case out in public?
They accuse this guy of stealing but won't show their face?
+1 |
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This whole thing amazes me.
If I lost an honest $45,000 to MtGox, I would be the first to find an attorney and start with the legal guns blazing. Assuming I had $45k to blow around on BTC in the first place. Someone who is resourceful enough to have $45k for Bitcoins is probably resourceful enough to engage counsel in a foreign jurisdiction when the law is on their side. I wouldn't even dream of coming to a forum and trying to argue a case that big...
...unless I had stolen the money and had no other options.
Or unless you were in the legal vacuum. You seam to forget that neither LRUSD nor BTC have any legal value wheresoever. Liberty Reserve isn't even a "bank", it's a "thing". If I steal your whole account of LRUSD or BTC you can say whatever you want, but no lawyer, justice, court or police in the planet will do anything about it. |
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Baron,
That function prevents other people to know how much you've on your wallet. Because bitcoin registers every transaction if you use always the same it's possible, by reading the block chain, to know how much you've in your address/wallet.
So, by generating a new Address it's not impossible, because if you movement your coins it's possible to know at which address they were previously, but much harder for a stranger to know your BTC current balance.
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The use of $ and BTC together is very confusing. I am still not understanding if the 45000 USD is bitcoin or just LRUSD.
For what I understand: He had an account funded with 45.000 LRUSD on mtgox. Received last month 9000 BTC "flagged". Mt Gox by some reason block his account at expenses of those 9K BTC. |
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If this is the case it is very damaging.
It's 100% speculation. So let him come forward and explain himself. By Baron's words is the most likely possibility. |
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Let me see them;
Mt Gox or someone close to him has been scammed.
They flag some hashes of that scam and got on a service like block explorer waiting for it to be moved. They notice the movement and cross data with BTC Addresses on their database. Found the BTC was moved to Baron's address and jumped on him.
Am I close to the truth?!
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because someone sends to my bitcoin (not mtgox.com account) account stolen money. What? That doesn't even make sense. Mtgox would not know that someone sent stolen Bitcoin to your non-mtgox address. +1 no sense at all... As for Baron to have to justify himself... I don't think these folks aren't dealing with PayPal and regular banks for no reason. That point is valid for both ends, taken mtgox also pays out by LR. Nevertheless Baron is casting big accusations against one of the "core sites" for Bitcoin exchange, put to stake the whole Bitcoin along with mtgox's reputation. This concerns me... I gave up bitcoin too soon, as it seams, now seams I'm rejoining it too late. *sighs*...  |
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We have very limited information here, hence plenty of space for all kind of speculations, and mtgox has none to blame for this but themselves. Too bad that this indirectly damages bitcoin reputation and economy, hopefully only temporarily.
This is what I find of concern too. |
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I don't want to mistrust mtgox either, I know he runs his site for quite a long time now. As it looks he created it few time after I leaved Bitcoin (wasn't able to generate coins anymore - and it was mostly worthless anyway -, if at the beginning I generate like 100+/day by June I wasn't able to generate nothing for a whole month), seams trustworthy, personally except for LR, which drives me away of his site, I've nothing against (or for) him. But he has to realize that his reputation is at stake.
Come here and say: «I think it's stolen» is very very void, isn't it?
From Baron I already read enough, for the counter part a single line... despite how much this community think one should be trusted, there have to be limits on such trust.
If BTC or USD... I don't know. The topic says he's holding 45.000 USD not 45.000 BTC. He sold it? Bough it? Whatever... doesn't quite concern me.
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Not to mention that you would have to be an idiot to keep 45K in an on-line account that has no terms and conditions etc.
I see only 3 possible reasons: You've a lot of cash, so 45K is nothing for you. You think you found a great place to stash it (***eediot!***) You're stupid. EDIT: Here however there's something I've to give to mtgox. If a guy out of the blue puts 45K on my hand I would be over suspicious either. As a thing we use to say around: «When the dole is too big, the saint gets suspicious» |
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Apparently, there is a strong argument from MtGox (who, by the way, has played a significant role to drive thge bitcoin economy and idea).
The argument is that there is some evidence that this guy is a scammer.
Lets just wait for MtGox to work this out with baron.
That's not even an argument to be strong for starters. That's a claim and a confirmation, means Baron's claims checked, and taken he doesn't seams to bother much with it, it's a void claim. Or he's expecting this community to take his word blindfolded... and seams to have a bunch of followers. Will you create a religion also? Now, I don't recognize mtgox any "bitcoin police" or "court" powers, so whatever he thinks he is doing is an abuse, a huge one because hurts the market trust, of powers. BitterTea; I really just made a few deals in mtgox's site for testing how BTC market was going, because I don't want LR money for nothing I just keep there, in case of... I don't know what. As I said Liberty Reserve itself for me stands for scam already. The only ones I see using it are those so called "Investment funds". |
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Bitcoin should be anonymous; if someone was stupid enough to get scammed - sorry.
Oh please, I can't stand this kind of thinking, "fuck the stupid victim, he deserved it!". Stop blaming the victims, blame the criminals! Your black & white World surely has a big problem... first you can't tell who's the scammer, taken mtgox has the money and is holding it without even bother with this thread, mtgox IS the scammer or the "main scammer" here. Then a site that operates without any financial license whatsoever nor supervision, that pays out by the "bank of the scammers", which happens to be "Liberty Reserve" (where "Liberty" stands for... ok, you got it, you get away with it), against a guy that just happens to have 45k USD at that same "bank" (sorry folks, but Liberty Reserve isn't even a bank, it's a... "thing to stash money" - which nobody knows where or how it comes from once you can't either directly deposit or withdraw. Convenient...)... For what concerns law and international conventions, caveden, you're dealing with 2 criminals. So... where do we stand?! |
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Well... to sum it up: Welcome to the free market of trust. If you don't want to feel like Baron... just don't go wild with 45K, unless you don't need them (in such case give them to me, I'm accepting donations ) As for innocence; nobody here is either 100% innocent or 100% guilty. Nevertheless, asking for passports in a currency which primarily aims for privacy is a joke! Like someone said: show me your money, not your faceAs back checking nodes is yet another joke, so long for privacy, he! Something to think about on the project: Delete trails, whatever leaves trail isn't anonymous and if BTC wants to be an anonymous currency, as the money on my wallet, has to be able to delete its own trail within each transaction. I know where I got those bills from, but I don't know who had them before the person who handed them to me... this is what money is when privacy is the matter. |
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