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2541  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Technical Support / Re: Restoring backed up wallet.dat on: August 28, 2011, 07:40:49 PM
In the status bar of the Bitcoin application, you can see the number of blocks you have. It should be at least 142949, otherwise you need to wait until the block chain is downloaded.

If this doesn't help, run Bitcoin with the -rescan command line switch.
2542  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Proof of stake brainstorming on: August 28, 2011, 05:49:54 PM
Okay, thanks that's helpful. How do stakeholders decide whether to sign the block with their private key or not? Can an attacker include double spends in every fork, so that there are no valid chains to sign?
Double-spending means:
1. Buyer (attacker) sends money to seller.
2. Seller gives goods to buyer.
3. Buyer creates a new branch in which the coins are sent back to himself.

The proof-of-stake is only relevant for people willing to wait for it. If stakeholders have several candidate branches, each should choose one randomly or according to some rule. One of the branches will come out ahead as the most signed. For every transaction that was agreed upon, there are two possibilities - either it is included in the signed branch, in which case it is secure forever and the seller can send the goods; or it was replaced by another transaction, in which case the seller doesn't send the goods. So, if you wait for proof-of-stake, you'll never have a payment reversed after you've sent the goods.

Regarding my suggestion, I don't see any problem with 10% or 20% of coins being locked up in mining.
If I understand your suggestion correctly, it requires that 10% of the coins are owned by the miners. This means that miners possess 10% of the wealth of the world (at least, the part of it that is in the form of bitcoins). This means mining is a huge enterprise, instead of a lean service provider. What if I told you that for the internet to work, 10% of the global wealth needs to be at the hands of ISPs?
2543  Bitcoin / Pools / PPLNS on: August 28, 2011, 12:04:16 PM
PPLNS, or "Pay per last N shares", is a reward system that has been known for a while, but I don't think there's a definitive thread discussing it, including how to implement it in a way that is hopping-proof even considering difficulty changes.

The basic method is this: Whenever a block is found, payment is given to shares in a window, starting with the last share submitted and going backwards up to some number N of shares. Shares older than the window are not paid. This is essentially a 0-1 cutoff decay function. There is no concept of rounds - shares can be paid even if they were found before the previous block. This means that a given share can be paid more than once - however, the payouts are chosen so that the expected reward is equal to solo expected reward. Because the payment for a share depends only on blocks found in the future and not on shares and blocks found in the past, there is no way to hop based on the current status of the pool. However, if implemented incorrectly, it is possible to hop based on imminent difficulty changes.

The most naive implementation is to have a fixed N and simply pay the last N shares equally. However, this makes it more profitable to mine before difficulty decreases, and less profitable before difficulty increases - the number of blocks that are expected to be found in your window depends on the future difficulty, while the payout you can receive elsewhere depends on the current difficulty.

It doesn't help if N is chosen to be a given multiple of the difficulty at the time a block is found. If the difficulty is about to increase, it is more profitable to mine a short while before. For example, if N is set equal to the difficulty D, a share submitted D shares before the increase will be paid the full expectation in the D-window, and then when difficulty increased it will once again go inside the window and have more expected reward. And, like the previous case, shares submitted just before the difficulty change will be rewarded similarly to shares submitted after it.

Another incorrect implementation is to pay all shares in a window given in units of time (sometimes called PPLNM or PPLNH). In addition to the problems above, it has a problem common to all reward systems that use time as a factor, which is that it is more profitable to mine when the current hashrate is higher than the average.

The correct method is as follows.
1. Choose a parameter X, which represents multiples of D to include in the window when difficulty is static. X=2 is a good choice.
2. When a share is submitted, assign to it a score of 1/D, where D is the difficulty at the time the share is submitted.
3. When a block is found, pay (sB)/X for the last share (the one before the winning share), where s is the share's score and B is the block reward. Continue backwards, paying each share based on its score, until you reach a share which brings the total score of the shares counted above X. Pay that share the amount (sB)/(tX) * min (r,t), where r is the score required to bring the total to exactly X and t is the score of the winning share. Don't pay any older shares.
4. If the pool has just started, and a block is found before there are shares totaling a score of X, there will be leftover rewards and it should be decided what to do with them. It doesn't matter much, but I recommend that the operator keeps them (in a macroscopic view, if the pool ever changes, this is compensation for the funds needed to cash participants out). Other options include donating to charity, or distributing among the miners.

The expected payout for a share with score s, so that the total score of it and all younger shares is Y, is sB * Max (0, 1-Y/X). It follows that the expected payout per share when it is submitted is always B/D.

The variance in the payout per share is (pB)^2/X. The average number of shares it takes to receive payment, in multiples of the difficulty, is X/2. Thus X can be chosen to have the desired tradeoff between variance and maturity time, with the invariant being that their product is (1/2)*(pB)^2. Note that for a miner who constitutes a significant portion of the pool, the shares are correlated - if the portion is q, the total steady-state variance can't be lower than q times solo variance.

If the parameter X ever needs to be changed (for example, to harness increases in the pool's size to decrease variance without changing maturity in units of time), the scores of all recent shares should be changed so that their new expected remaining payout will be equal to the old one, starting from the youngest share and moving backwards. If X is increased, scores should be decreased. This creates a situation similar to the start of the pool where there could be leftover rewards. If X is decreased, scores should be increased. For some of the older shares, it will be impossible to increase the score to maintain the expected value. In this case they should be "cashed out", with the operator paying from his own funds their expected reward.

A variant of this is, instead of using a 0-1 cutoff, use an exponential decay function. This is equivalent to the double geometric method with o=1. If shares decay by a factor of e every (XD/2) shares, the variance is (pB)^2/X and the maturity time is X/2, just like with 0-1. The advantage is that the due payment of a miner can be encoded with a single number, his score - there's no need to keep or handle a history of shares. The disadvantages are that it takes longer to receive the reward in full, and that the implementation requires either a logarithmic scale or periodic rescaling.

Another variant is to use a linear decay function. This achieves a better variance-maturity tradeoff invariant, (4/9)*(pB)^2. However, it is probably harder to implement and understand.

A substantially different variant is to pay for every share at most once. If, when going backwards in the list of shares, we encounter some that were already paid, we skip them and move on to older shares. X needs to be less than 1 to make sure that eventually we will have enough unpaid shares to draw on. I'm not sure what's the correct way to handle difficulty changes with this variant.

Edit: Fixed an error in the description of the block payment.
2544  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: Double geometric method: Hopping-proof, low-variance reward system on: August 28, 2011, 12:00:00 PM
As far as efficiency goes, it's the variation in efficiency I want to simulate, which I think would really be the stand out reason to use this method over other hopper proof methods.
By this, do you mean simply the variance of the reward? In this case you need parameters that are realistic with respect to the risk operators are willing to take, but for an operator who is already seriously considering offering PPS, I think these parameters are entirely viable (perhaps with a slightly higher f if he wants to gain on average).
2545  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: Pool hopping... ethical or not? on: August 28, 2011, 11:12:12 AM
First there is no component of time in any of the reward calculations. This is curious because humans usually consider a reward as a rate of return over time.
This is because the calculation is relative to the fair reward, which itself is tied to time with the miner's hashrate.
The calculations ignore that the hoppers change the rate the reward is realized by their movement from one pool to the next. They also accelerate the rate at which the reward for the pool they hopped too is realized, including the part that was calculated before they arrived.

Well, the first and most obvious counter example to this is that if all participants of pool A hop out and nobody hops in. Since pool A now has an effective hash rate of 0 Mh/s the cheater payment share will never be realized because the next block will never be found by that pool. That implies a total rate of return for all the hoppers of zero.
It is assumed that are enough continuous miners so that a block is eventually found.
Eventually, but leaving the pool degrades the reward to be obtained from that pool. The paper ignores the time component and treats the reward as constant.
The existence of hoppers changes the % of time the pool spends in young rounds - hoppers make the pool grow old faster. This does decrease the total benefit that can be achieved. However, if a hopper does find a pool with a young round, this does not change the amplification factor for shares he submits. The payout per share will be B/N, where N is the total number of shares which will be found in this round, which is distributed geometrically conditioned on I shares having already been found. Time plays no role with this part.

In the limit where everyone hops, all proportional pools will be stuck at 43.5%, and thus no more hopping can be done.

Let us presume that these hoppers have network of magic 8 balls that will notify them of the exact half-way point in the block search.
That's a pretty strong presumption. Everything about pool-hopping relies on the random nature of block finding, ignoring this results in nonsense.

It doesn't matter whether they actually hit 50% or not, it works for any percentage whether they are correct or not. The half way point just makes the math easy, and it is contained within the continuum which is supposed to be non-zero. It doesn't matter where the miners think they are, the point is that a single counter example exists for which the continuum is zero. A miner could leave randomly, land on 37.82734% and it just makes the addition annoying. All I was doing was providing a counter example in a continuum which was claimed to be non-zero for all values of x.
It doesn't work this way. If you condition on the total number of shares in the round of course you'll find there's no benefit. You need to condition on the number of shares already found.

If you say they hop at 50% of the total shares in the round (and it doesn't matter if it's 50% or some other number, if they know it or not, or whatever), you're leaving open the possibility that they will mine until 1.5D shares were found in a round whose total is 3D, which is something they will not do, since they leave at 0.435D.

The longer the round is, the less % of the total shares the hopper will have in this round. It is in this way that the hopper biases his share distribution towards shorter rounds, thus getting more reward per share.

You may want to have a look at the paper I'm working on which I believe, if I may say so myself, does a better job discussing pool-hopping than Raulo's paper.

This is of course all off-topic for this thread, which is about ethics.

I shall look at that paper. Until we quantify under what circumstances hoppers can obtain benefits, we cannot understand the ethics of the behavior.
(time elapses)
I have looked at the paper. It is indeed a better explanation, however you still have the assumption that hopper hash rate will be magically replaced after it has left the pool. Why would anyone hop into a pool that has over 43.5% shares already submitted when they have a choice of a better pool? Nobody has yet discussed the decay rate of hopper's rewards over time in the pool they leave as compared to the expected rewards in a new block in a new pool for which there is suddenly more competition.

One of my contentions is that after some percentage of the pool hops, it becomes counter productive. Moreover, the supply of pools is quite small and I could see scenarios of hopper congestion given a large enough population of hoppers.
If everyone hops, the result is known - all proportional pool will end as no one will mine past 43.5%. The situation I analyze is the situation in practice, that hoppers are a minority. The hopper's rewards don't decay over time as the pool's reward system has no consideration of time. The amplification factor as a function of round age doesn't change. What does change is how young the rounds are expected to be. If the hopper does find a pool with a young round he should choose it over fallback mining (in all cases it is assumed that the hopper has a solo / fair pool option available for which he mines if there are no milkable proportional pools).
2546  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: Double geometric method: Hopping-proof, low-variance reward system on: August 28, 2011, 09:44:37 AM
In order simulate efficiency and the variability of efficiency for this scoring method, what f c and o values would you suggest I use?

Edit: For use in the simulator I define 'efficiency' to be (reward for a hopping miner)/(reward for a fee-free pps miner).
Use f = -1, c = 0.5, o = 0.5. With these parameters this method is the most different from other methods, so if there are any problems they should show up there. Also, with this the average fee is 0, so efficiency will be exactly 1.

Remember that to simulate/implement this, you need to use either logarithmic scale, or periodic rescaling (once in a while (which could be every share if you're only keeping track of a few workers), divide all scores by s and set s to 1).
2547  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: Pool hopping... ethical or not? on: August 27, 2011, 09:12:22 PM
First there is no component of time in any of the reward calculations. This is curious because humans usually consider a reward as a rate of return over time.
This is because the calculation is relative to the fair reward, which itself is tied to time with the miner's hashrate.

Well, the first and most obvious counter example to this is that if all participants of pool A hop out and nobody hops in. Since pool A now has an effective hash rate of 0 Mh/s the cheater payment share will never be realized because the next block will never be found by that pool. That implies a total rate of return for all the hoppers of zero.
It is assumed that are enough continuous miners so that a block is eventually found.

Quote
Let us presume that these hoppers have network of magic 8 balls that will notify them of the exact half-way point in the block search.
That's a pretty strong presumption. Everything about pool-hopping relies on the random nature of block finding, ignoring this results in nonsense.


You may want to have a look at the paper I'm working on which I believe, if I may say so myself, does a better job discussing pool-hopping than Raulo's paper.

This is of course all off-topic for this thread, which is about ethics.
2548  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: Double geometric method: Hopping-proof, low-variance reward system on: August 27, 2011, 05:49:00 PM
How does this deal with variable or unknown block rewards? Already now block rewards are rarely 50 BTC and the endgame scenario is anyways random block rewards (which should just be profitable).
It doesn't. For now I recommend (for all reward systems) that the operator keeps transaction fees, and take this into account in his business plan when he decides what pool fees to take. I'll investigate this more thoroughly as it becomes a bigger problem.

EDIT: As discussed below, this turns out not to be a serious problem. Though variability in block rewards does increase operator risk.

How is maturity time affected?
You should look not at the time until all the reward is obtained, but rather at the average time it is received. So if your reward is 2 BTC, and you receive 1 BTC a million shares from now and 1 BTC two million shares from now, I count it as a maturity time of 1.5M shares. If you consider time to be fully repaid important for reasons of making a clean break from the pool, I have a different suggestion to address this which I will post about later.

When o=1, you can choose r to have whatever tradeoff you want between maturity time and variance. It turns out you get the same tradeoff as with 0-1 cutoff. A good choice is r=1+p, resulting in decay by a factor of e every D (difficulty) shares, with maturity time of 1 (expressed in multiples of D) and variance of (pB)^2/2. This is the same as with PPLNS when N = 2D. Then you can decrease o (and change r accordingly), keeping maturity time constant while decreasing variance of participants (at the cost of increased operator variance).

How exact and how "stable" are payout estimates displayed on a pool website (if I stop mining, how fast do shares decay)?
The decay rate, and the accuracy of the estimates (which is basically the inverse variance), are tunable, and as discussed above, start as good as PPLNS and can then be improved.

How far can the pool in theory go into minus to "absorb some variance"?
The operator can only lose if f is negative, and in this case, can lose up to (-f)B per block found. Compare with PPS, which is equivalent to f -> -Inf and the operator's loss per round is unbounded.

Oh, and it might be great to have a google spreadsheet with example calculations + chart porn! Wink
I'll think about it.
2549  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: Double geometric method: Hopping-proof, low-variance reward system on: August 26, 2011, 02:29:41 PM
How about just break the block down into 10 minute intervals and thus divide the block total (e.g. 50) by the number of intervals and that fraction divided up over the shares during that interval.
(or even use the network block times themselves)

Anyone want to do the math? Smiley

Does it solve the supposed 43.5% issue mathematically?
Then it's more profitable to mine at the beginning of an interval.
Actually it will create interesting dynamics depending on the number of hoppers. But it's still more profitable to mine early in the round.

don't break rounds, merge 3 rounds and pay 150btc
It's more profitable to mine in the beginning of the 3-round batch, or after 1 or 2 blocks were found if there are relatively few shares.


Anyway, this is off-topic, hopping-proof methods have been known for months, no need to reinvent the square wheel. This post is about a breakthrough in low-variance reward systems.
2550  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: Analysis of Bitcoin pooled mining reward systems (work in progress) on: August 26, 2011, 09:44:32 AM
I haven't made much progress with this lately, partly because I was too busy inventing a new reward system. But I hope to be able to resume work soon.
2551  Bitcoin / Pools / Double geometric method: Hopping-proof, low-variance reward system on: August 26, 2011, 09:41:10 AM
This is a new reward system for mining pools, a hybrid between PPLNS and the geometric method which combines advantages of both. It starts with PPLNS-like low share-based variance without operator risk, and then allows the operator to absorb some variance to decrease pool-based variance (which the geometric method can do, but not PPLNS). It is of course hopping-proof - the expected payout per share is always the same no matter when it was submitted. The variance and the maturity time (the time it takes to receive the reward) are independent of the pool's history and almost completely independent of future difficulty changes.

The method is purely score-based, which means that all the information required to calculate payouts can be encoded with a single score value per participant. There is no fundamental need to keep a history of shares. However, because the scores grow exponentially, it is advised to use a logarithmic scale to store their values and do the calculations.

We will denote by B the block reward (assumed constant) and p = 1/Difficulty. In addition there are 3 parameters which can be adjusted to balance average fee, operator variance, share- and pool-based participant variance, and maturity time:
f - Fixed fee.
c - Average variable fee. The average total fee will be (c+f-cf)B per block. Increasing c reduces participants' variance but increases operator's variance.
o - Cross-round leakage. Increasing o reduces participants' share-based variance but increases maturity time. When o=0 this becomes the geometric method. When o->1 this becomes a variant of PPLNS, with exponential decay instead of 0-1 cutoff (note that "exponential" does not mean "rapid", the decay can be chosen to be slow). For o=1, c must be 0 and r (defined below) can be chosen freely instead of being given by a formula.

The method is as follows:
1. When the pool first starts running, initialize s=1. Initialize the scores of all workers to 0.
2. Set r = 1 + p(1-c)(1-o)/c. If at any point the difficulty changes, p and then r should be recalculated.
3. When a share is found, increase by p*s*B the score of the participant who found it. Set s=s*r.
4. If the share found happens to be a valid block, then after doing #3, also do the following for each participant: Letting S be his score, give him a payout of (S(r-1)(1-f))/(ps). Set S=S*o. The remaining reward is given to the operator. Or, if the total is higher than the block reward (only possible if f<0), the operator pays the difference out of his own funds.

The inutition is this: Instead of keeping the score unchanged when a block is found (as in PPLNS) or setting all scores to 0 and effectively transferring them to the operator (as in the geometric method), a part of the score is transferred to the operator. When rounds are long, participants get to keep most of their score between rounds and this is similar to PPLNS. However, if several blocks are found in rapid succession, the operator will collect a large portion of the score and thus be the primary beneficiary of the good fortune. The fees collected this way allow letting f be negative, sweetening the rewards of long rounds. Overall, this decreases the dependence of participants' rewards on the pool's luck, thus reducing the variance caused by it.

The variance of the payout for a single submitted share is

(1-c)^4(1-o)(1-p)p^2(1-f)^2B^2
------------------------------
   (2-c+co)c+(1-c)^2(1-o)p

Notably, the factor of (1-o) allows this to be much smaller than the variance of the geometric method, if o is chosen close to 1. This value is of relevance, though, only to small miners, and the potential advantage of this system is for large miners (which suffer from pool-based variance but not so much from share-based variance). It would be of interest to evaluate the total variance for a participant constituting a given portion of the pool, and the variance of the operator. So far I was unable to derive symbolic expressions for these, but they can be evaluated in simulation. For c = 0.5, o = 1-c = 0.5, f = (-c)/(1-c) = -1 I got that a miner constituting the entirety of the pool has about 30% of solo variance (instead of 100% as in PPLNS), and the operator's variance is about 25% of PPS variance.

The geometric method was so called because shares decay in a geometric sequence, and its analysis crucially depends on summation of geometric series and the fact that round length follows the geometric distribution. Because in this new method shares decay geometrically along two directions, both for every share found and for every block found, I call it the double geometric method.

The variables used in the calculations grow rapidly, so if the method is implemented naively, they will overflow the data types used. Thus the implementation should use one of the following:

a. Periodic rescaling: The only thing that matters is the values of the scores relative to the variable s. Thus, if the values grow to large, all that is needed is to rescale them. This means dividing the scores of all participants by s, and then setting s=1. This should be done once in a while, the exact times do not matter (it can even be done for every share).

b. Logarithmic scale: Instead of maintaining the variables themselves, their logarithms are stored and updated. The following is the method expressed in logarithmic scale, denoting by log the natural logarithm function and by exp the natural exponentiation function:
1. When the pool first starts running, initialize ls=0. For every worker define a variable lS and initialize it to negative infinity (or a negative number of very large magnitude, say -1000000), and do this also for every worker which later joins.
2. Set r = 1 + p(1-c)(1-o)/c, lr = log(r). If at any point the difficulty changes, p, r and lr should be recalculated.
3. When a share is found, let lS = ls + log(exp(lS-ls) + pB) for the participant who found it. Set ls = ls + lr.
4. If the share found happens to be a valid block, then after doing #3, also do the following for each participant: Give him a payout of (exp(lS-ls)*(r-1)*(1-f))/p. Set lS = lS + log(o).

For display purposes, the quantity that should be shown as the score of a worker is S/s (or exp(lS-ls) in logarithmic scale). This represents the expected payout the worker should receive in addition to any confirmed rewards (before fees). To display the expected payout after deducting fees, use (1-f)*(1-c)*S/s, or (1-f)*(1-c)*exp(lS-ls).
2552  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: Analysis of Bitcoin pooled mining reward systems (work in progress) on: August 25, 2011, 06:09:57 AM
The real mind twister for me is that even without hopping to PPS, even if you turn your miners off at some arbitrary hop point before then end of a round, efficiency for the submitted shares will always be better than 1.0 in the long run. In the short term, variability can hide this, though.
Not really that surprising. The expected gain per share decreases with the age of the round. If you stick through the whole round (and there are no other hoppers) the efficiency will be 1. So if you leave early, even if this "early" is pretty late, you'll always get more than 1.
2553  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: Pool hopping... ethical or not? on: August 24, 2011, 06:53:13 PM
 Anyway I think the physical mining model doesn't really capture what bitcoin mining is like.  It's probably more like a voluntary lottery pool where each week people put whatever they can spare (we will call this "lotto money") into a pool and at the end of the month tickets are purchased for the draw happening that day. The draw always pays out the same amount and winnings are divided according to the money invested i.e.: lotto payout * (Your $$ invested/Total $$ invested by everyone in the pool).
That's not really a good example because if the pool is larger, the probability to win is also larger, so the expectation is the same.
2554  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [100 GH/s] EMC: 0 Fee/LP/API/PayPal Payout/Free SMS/US/EU/AU/Full 8 Payout/More on: August 23, 2011, 07:48:30 PM
Blocks like this are one in 130. Not really that rare if you think about it.

We had an Eternal Block From Hell on Continuum once. And it was a 10 GH/s pool. It wasn't pretty.
2555  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin Conference 2011 NYC on: August 23, 2011, 07:44:09 PM

JUST WAIT till you see what we have in store for Pattaya....


Wich Bitcon is coming first?
Thailand or Amsterdam?

Thank you.
If memory serves, Pattaya is first (April maybe?). Bruce said details will be posted on bitcoinconference.com.
2556  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: pool hopping questions on: August 23, 2011, 03:41:04 PM
The variance can be calculated, but it depends on so many factors (and even with very simplified assumptions, the resulting expressions are messy) that for this purpose, you're probably better off with empirical observations like organofcorti's.

Indeed it is still unanswered. There have been several helpful responses but they dont quite answer my original question. Most likely there are too many variables to fill in to get a meaningful answer. Menis paper does a great job of telling the expected percentage gain from a given number of pools. Is there a way to fill in some blanks using his equations to generate a timeline using current pool data?

Hopping mutiple proprotional pools is not covered in the paper you mention, just one prop and one pps. From simulations though I can say you can expect about 200% +/- 20% after 720 rounds (currently about a month at 2Thps). After 160 rounds (about a week at 2Thps) it's up to +/- 30% (approx).

This is only if you are hopping multiple pools of the same hashrate. Add multiply different hashrates and it gets a bit more complicated. Smaller pools tend to increase variance.
Raulo's paper only does 1 prop + backup. My paper (work in progress) deals with multiple pools.
2557  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin Conference 2011 NYC on: August 23, 2011, 03:07:31 PM
I can't remember the name of the guy and his company but who was that guy at the conference that made the announcement that he was selling basically "anything" on his new site with coins? Anyone have that URL? I think it was basically an amazon of bitcoin.
That was probably http://www.bitcoindeals.com/ .
2558  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: Analysis of Bitcoin pooled mining reward systems (work in progress) on: August 23, 2011, 12:51:00 PM
Quote
Nobody can predict the future, but the past is not as mysterious; the number of shares already submitted during this round, at the time of deciding on a course of action, directly affects the estimates of what the eventual length of the round will be.
Umm - how can you start a sentence with a fact and end it with the exact opposite of that factual statement?

You've just stated correctly that you cannot predict the future, but then said the past affects the future.

Simplest link to verify it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamblers_fallacy

I'll put it this way:
Once you have mined n shares, there is absolutely no change in the probability of finding a block in the next share than there was in all of the previous shares back to the first.
I might have to reword this sentence in a way which is less dramatic but also less ambiguous.

What I meant is that, if a future event is random and independent of the past, you can't predict it better than the prior probability.

But if the event is not independent of the past, you certainly can improve upon the prior.

"Number of shares remaining until round end" is independent on the past. "Eventual total number of shares at the end of current round" is certainly dependent on the past. At round start, "probability that the round will have >3D shares" is 5%. If 2D shares have already been found, this probability is 37%. If 2.9D have been found it's 90%, and if 3D or more have been found it's 100%.

And, pertinently, the eventual total number of shares at the end of current round (denoted N) is what matters, since your payout for every share you submit is B/N. If E[B/N] is less than what you could get per share elsewhere (which is B/D), you should mine elsewhere.

And I'll repeat the simple example - if 2D shares have already been found, then necessarily N>2D so E[B/N] < B/(2D), so you want to mine elsewhere.

Secondly, regarding your copy of Roulo's suggestion that pools that pay based on share% mined are affected detrimentally by hoppers
(or: hoppers make more BTC by hopping)
So, if I say something which is true, and which was already said before many times, and I'm properly citing an influential paper about it, redoing the calculations myself and adding calculations and results which were never published before, then I'm "copying"?

Let me use the simplest way to disprove a theory: An example that fails the theory will show it to be false.

Take this statement from Roulo's document:
Quote
It means that with optimal strategy it is possible to gain on average 28% of ones hashrate by switching from the pool after 43.5% of the current difficulty number of shares have been contributed. Notice that the function is fairly flat and even after switching after λ = 1, one can gain a fairly respectable 22% of ones hashrate.

Thus stating that from 43.5% to 100% (λ = 1) there is a gain between 28% and 22%

Yet a simple example with 50% shows this to be false:
If you mine with a share% of 10% at a site for 50% of the expected time to find a block, then, your shares will be worth on average 5% instead of 10% (since your % will slowly drop, after you leave, to 5% (on average) until the block is found)
During this time you can go to another pool with the same hash rate and do the same thing ... and thus get a total of 10% (5% from each) ... which is what you would have got to start with - not anywhere near 20% extra ...
You'll have 5% of the shares. You'll have more than 5% of the reward because you will have more shares in short rounds than in long rounds.
2559  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: Pool hopping... ethical or not? on: August 23, 2011, 08:57:00 AM
Any idea how I can permanently remove this thread from my "updated topics" section?
I think the only way is to convince Theymos to switch to a forum software which has this feature. I'll support a switch for the same feature.
2560  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: Pool hopping... ethical or not? on: August 22, 2011, 05:10:27 PM
Miners are predators.  By mining I make it harder for all other miners and decrease your income.    How about this,  I totally stop mining and instead of me getting 1BTC/day, all other miners give me, collectivity, 0.5BTC/day.  I save on electricity and you all get 0.5 more a day.

Honestly, what if I say we all halve our Mh/s tomorrow.  This only makes sense; we all gain.  But by your reasoning anyone who doesn't would be working with us; instead they would be trying to get more than his fair share.

Actually, tonight I will reduce my processing power in half, and anyone who doesn't is against me.  OR they realize that this prisoners dilemma is solved by defecting.
Mining exists for a reason, you know. By increasing your hashrate you are making the Bitcoin network more secure, and rewarded for it.
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