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25481  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: December 09, 2015, 09:58:26 PM
I believe that you have kind of answered your question in a couple of places by asserting that you don't really know if the points that you raised are issues are not.

Well, I don't think it answers any questions. Though I agree with what your point seems to be - that we should not automatically assume this is broken.

However, if one embraces (what I perceive to be) the key tenets of Bitcoin -- trustlessness and decentralization -- then we _all_ have a duty to perform due diligence before accepting even a minor change, let alone one that so radically alters the allocation of responsibility as this.

I guess I am just advocating some judicious scrutiny of which of the pied pipers you choose to follow. For it seems that some of the loudest such have not even as of yet read the entire score.


Well there are only so many hours in the day to research every and all aspects of life and how we may be materially affected by various changes and the conduct of others.  Certainly, there is a need for a variety of people to look into matters, rather than taking things at face value, and certainly I cannot fault you for any of your attempts to find flaws that may exist because if you were to uncover any significantly material flaws, then the whole bitcoin community could benefit from uncovering of such flaws, if they exist and were previously unknown.
25482  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: December 09, 2015, 09:49:39 PM
all commodities are down, except of course...... bitcoin. ... that says a lot in itself. when the dollar finally gives up the ghost, and it will eventually, then value of bitcoin will collapse in purchasing power as compared with the new currency while metals will soar:

"The economy is collapsing.  This is evident from the ongoing crash in commodities, especially the price of oil and natural gas.  The consumer is tapped out." Retail Sales: It’s Going To Be A Slaughter - http://investmentresearchdynamics.com/retail-sales-its-going-to-be-a-slaughter/


bitcoin is not tied to the US$ in any way whatsoever ... that's just borked thinking right there.

take a look at all the other global trade of btc in europe, south america, eastern europe, asia ... when the currency markets collapse and banks lock up a la greece people will use whatever money they can


i disagree... bitcoin is valued in fiat currency. when fiat currency collapses what will bitcoin be valued in ?? 1 bitcoin will equal what ??

greece was still able to value their bitcoins in usd and euros.


What kind of lame question is that?  Bitcoin is NOT pegged to anything.   

helrow?Huh

 

Bitcoin is valued in whatever it is being traded against, doesn't matter what is the other asset, the trade value will float and will be determined at the time of the trade, if fiat collapses and it costs $1million to buy a loaf of bread, then perhaps bitcoin will be valued at $1million per 1 satoshi or something like that... .

Aztecminer, you seem smart enough to be able to extrapolate that various assets and/or currencies float in value against others and wouldn't really go completely to zero, unless there is completely no utility or value in the asset.
25483  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: December 09, 2015, 09:37:01 PM
Monkey vision:  Drop towards 390 support intraday, rising trend to continue thereafter on a daily basis, and over the weekend.


You know this is wrong


Monkey needs some fucking glasses.    Tongue Tongue
25484  Economy / Speculation / Re: Will BTC reach $500 during december? on: December 09, 2015, 09:10:13 PM
As the price reached 500 dollar last month but it didnot last for some hours above it, I think the price can reach it again if there won't be any surprising news that may occur and affect the price again

The price last month had not reached $500, the maximum that i saw was $477 and it was only for few minutes.


The answer to that question is fairly easily researched, and on bitstamp (which is frequently the BTC price reference point, unless specified otherwise), BTC's price reached $502 on November 4, and several times for about 4 hours surrounding that $502 price peak, BTC traded at $495 on Bitstamp.
25485  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: December 09, 2015, 08:42:37 PM
And?  What's the problem?  

Is BTC's security undermined?  

Are the odds of double spends increased?  

Is there some other kind of vulnerability for malicious players to exploit?  

Under Segregated witness, isn't all of the accounting going to be reconciled within a relatively short period of time?  It's not like segregated witness causes ongoing unresolved transactions. Is it?

And. Perhaps many. Maybe. I think so. Yes, see link below. I don't know how long. I think the answer is that it does.

Rather than reiterate, I point you here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1279444.msg13197163#msg13197163

Maybe my fears are unjustified. I don't yet know enough about it to know. What I do know is that I don't trust that all those crowing about how this SegWit is going to save us have really looked at it to the point where they understand it.


I believe that you have kind of answered your question in a couple of places by asserting that you don't really know if the points that you raised are issues are not.

Well to draw a bit of an analogy, there are a quite a few areas related to bitcoin that I do not understand or claim to understand - for example, cryptography, math, economics and politics (to name a few), but in the past two years, I have been continuing to invest in bitcoin because I have some faith that the various bitcoin contributions are filling niches that are not otherwise filled by mainstream traditional (and often centralized) institutions, and I am continuing to investigate various dynamics and contributions of BTC.

Even though on an ongoing basis, I continue to learn about various bitcoin dynamics, I frequently read, see and hear people who appear to be much knowledgeable than me in some of the areas that I lack knowledge causing me to maintain a positive view of bitcoin and to continue to be fairly bullish about the future performance of bitcoin.

Accordingly, it does not hurt to ask a large number of questions like you have done, but contrary to what you seem to be doing, I would not assume without specific evidence and/or examples or even proposed scenarios that various contributors to bitcoin's code are sloppily leading us down some perilous doom and gloom path. 

In fact, it seems to me, that in the whole scheme of things, we should feel some comfort in the opposite, that is if a bunch of battling coders are currently appearing to compromising and agreeing to such compromise, there must be some mutually agreeable aspect regarding such compromise that causes the battling sides to be gravitating towards intermediate consensus (at least for the short term).  So it makes little sense to me if someone seems to be assuming, without evidence that they are a bunch of fuck-ups. 











25486  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: December 09, 2015, 07:53:41 PM
Hello there,

Gavin Andresen has just published a new article: Segregated Witness is cool

BULLISH!!!

TL;DR recap:

Quote
So… how does all of this help with the one megabyte block size limit?

Well, once all the details are worked out, and the soft or hard fork is past, and a significant fraction of transactions are spending segregated witness-locked outputs… more transactions will fit into the 1 megabyte hard limit. For example, the simplest possible one-input, one-output segregated witness transaction would be about 90 bytes of transaction data plus 80 or so bytes of signature– only those 90 bytes need to squeeze into the one megabyte block, instead of 170 bytes. More complicated multi-signature transactions save even more.

Looks like they're working to double the transaction limits of a block, without a hard fork! This could spell a lot of good news for the every day commerce of BTCitcoin.

Yeah - it's a neat accounting trick. Split the block into the signature, and everything else. Call the 'everything else' the newblock. Put only newblock on the blockchain. Make a new data structure out of the signatures. Sweep under the rug the fact that the blocks are meaningless without the signatures. Ignore the fact that trustless use of bitcoin requires knowledge of, and maintenance of, both the newblockchain and the signature tree - now ever-so-slightly _larger_ than the old blockchain. Pretend you've done something about scalability. Profit!

I must be missing something. Everyone else seems to luuurve The New Hotness.


And?  What's the problem? 

Is BTC's security undermined? 

Are the odds of double spends increased? 

Is there some other kind of vulnerability for malicious players to exploit? 

Under Segregated witness, isn't all of the accounting going to be reconciled within a relatively short period of time?  It's not like segregated witness causes ongoing unresolved transactions. Is it?
25487  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: December 09, 2015, 06:14:22 PM
On BFX, it's almost as if someone pumped ~$5,000,000 to $10,000,000, just to gain a quick 5% and then dumped again. 

A successful P&D like that is likely to be repeated, but the question  is will it be for a higher buy in price, lower, or the same? 

I think it's likely that it was for considerably more money and performed on multiple exchanges simultaneously.  or it could just be the sum of many players acting independently. It's fun to think about.

Well, since you were threatening to do this with your 6 figures of bitcorns, I'd say you are a likely suspect.


Instead of a suspect,  BjA is acting the goofball with his inflammatory and emotionally laden prognosticating.
25488  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: December 09, 2015, 06:09:09 PM
I placed my order around 320.


So what?   What's the purpose of informing us about your pie in the sky expectations and non-specific outline of a plan?
25489  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: December 09, 2015, 05:51:54 PM
Feeling like it's gonna hit $600 long before the halving comes now.  Also starting to feel like a banking crash worse than 2008 might happen before we even get to the halving in eight or so months.  The new world order = a simultaneous Comex run and some 10-20x+ Bitcoin bubble turning the world financial system upside down occuring at the same time.

If every single Bitcoin was already mined, and every millionaire on earth invested only 1% of their money in Bitcoin, price would be $8000 per coin, but that assumes market cap is fully backed with liquidity, so the real price would be way higher.  This does not include governments, banks, hedge funds, people with less than a $1 million investing, etc, just millionaires investing only 1% :

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1235466.0

The extremely low ball price for next 2008 crash will probably be something monsterous like $10,000+ a coin because it can easily go to $3000+ in the next year or two without even having another 2008 crash:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1243623.0

When every single day you wake up having the odds of another 2008 crash being here any second, you have to be literally stupid to not own any Bitcoin or to go full fiat.



The Roach is quite the self promoter!!!!!!     Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy   Good threads.    Wink Wink
25490  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: December 09, 2015, 04:18:24 AM

If govt officials are more strategic they would have wanted to get their grubby lil hands on 1 million BTC, like they did with Ulbricht's 150k btc

Sounds like he's had some longstanding beefs with the taxman over the years. I wonder where all this will lead. It would be quite something if The Man ended up with 1 million coins.



soooooo, we panic nao?

You gotta do what feels right for you. I for one am not performing any more camsex shows tonight just in case.

They will probably use this as an excuse to dump hard as fuck. Then prop it back up

Can you imagine the news outlets if that was or implied satoshi?

And they auction off 1 million bitcoins?



how they gonna get the coins? 

don't you believe that if he really is Satoshi, then he would be smart enough to take various security and/or preventative measures to guard, camouflage and or separate his stash of coins - so maybe at most the govt could get access to 10% of his stash, if that?




25491  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: December 09, 2015, 04:02:01 AM

If govt officials are more strategic they would have wanted to get their grubby lil hands on 1 million BTC, like they did with Ulbricht's 150k btc
25492  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: December 09, 2015, 03:54:07 AM
might go back to 320.


I hope that you are not waiting for such a price drop before you buy.   Lips sealed Lips sealed Embarrassed Embarrassed

If he is like me, he probably does. I won't buy back over $300.

Under the current state of the reality of the BTC space, it seems like you are going to be waiting a long fucking time... and seems pretty likely that you may not be buying BTC at all if you are stupid and/or stubborn enough to be good for your word.

You may not have noticed that the past couple of years have been the product of a real (not imaginary) forced suppression of BTC's price and potential  - and BTC's upcoming price rise, after such forced suppression could become quite violent and explosive (and NOT in the downward direction).



No actually if you ignore the mt.gox pump you can see the S curve forming, all the pumps are trying to hide that steady upward trend from what I noticed.



Are you suggesting that in any time in the near future BTC prices are going to slump back below $350?   I am having my doubts at the moment, even though I understand that nearly anything is possible in bitcoinlandia.... in other words we going upward.. not downward... maybe $500-$600 range in the near-term?








25493  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: December 09, 2015, 03:47:11 AM

It's rather clear this thing is a hoax. Don't ask me the intentions behind it but this egomaniac couldn't possibly be Satoshi.

Nice to have something to agree with you on Smiley


Don't leave Richy_T.... neither you nor your companion....

I may not agree with your various libertarian outbursts, but many times you have solid contributions to our discussion herein, even sometimes when you incorporate a libertarian twist.    Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
25494  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: December 09, 2015, 03:42:54 AM
might go back to 320.


I hope that you are not waiting for such a price drop before you buy.   Lips sealed Lips sealed Embarrassed Embarrassed

If he is like me, he probably does. I won't buy back over $300.

Under the current state of the reality of the BTC space, it seems like you are going to be waiting a long fucking time... and seems pretty likely that you may not be buying BTC at all if you are stupid and/or stubborn enough to be good for your word.

You may not have noticed that the past couple of years have been the product of a real (not imaginary) forced suppression of BTC's price and potential  - and BTC's upcoming price rise, after such forced suppression could become quite violent and explosive (and NOT in the downward direction).

25495  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: December 09, 2015, 03:35:33 AM
I second this.

This Frost guy is the leader of the new left behind movement.  Went full fiat then it rose to $320 and he's like...this is bullshit!  It can't go up anymore, I'm going to wait till it drops to $280.  Then it goes to $500, then drops back to $320 again and he still doesn't buy.  Now it's about to go past $500 and he's still waiting to "buy the $280 dip".


There quite a few of these "wait and see" types, who will likely enmasse be chasing the train between $700 and $5,000 in their disbeliefs but wanting to join in


I can understand hesitancy to some extent, but I have been like a broken record to a lot of these types to suggest to them over and over and over to at east invest a little bit, like $20 per week or even $20 per month, which would have been helpful in acquiring at least 1 BTC and maybe even 2 or 3 BTC...

We can only hold hands so much before we just gotta leave them be with their too much delayed and ultimate inaction.
25496  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: December 09, 2015, 03:25:38 AM
might go back to 320.


I hope that you are not waiting for such a price drop before you buy.   Lips sealed Lips sealed Embarrassed Embarrassed
25497  Economy / Speculation / Re: Will BTC reach $500 during december? on: December 09, 2015, 02:50:21 AM
First let's just see if we can stay over $400 for a week.

Over $500 by Xmas would be nice though.

I don't think this is quite a possible feat for the deadline to be by Xmas. Even with the super pump to $500, there proved to be some major resistance around that area. I think we'll get there eventually, but it might take some time.


Your characterization of $500 seems quite strange. 

Think about what you are saying?   

I would not characterize an inability to sustain a sudden rise to $500 (of prices above $450 for less than 18 hours) to be any kind of meaningful test of resistance.

In retrospect, it should be clear that the November 4 rise to $500 was just to quick under the then circumstances.

Currently, such $500 prices may or may not be sustainable depending upon how long from here it takes to get there and whether BTC's current price performance begins to attract deeper support - for example in the coming weeks between now and when santa lands his sleigh on various BTC trader roofs.   Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
25498  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: December 09, 2015, 02:36:10 AM
from where we stand now 500 doesn't look that far away does it?


As I type, at this point, less than 17% appreciation of BTC price will equal  $500+   ... definitely reachable within a day, a week or by the time santa lands his sleigh on the roof.
25499  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: December 09, 2015, 01:29:56 AM
....so what's up with Ripple price lately? Why is this premined crap going up again?  Roll Eyes

I believe microsoft did some kind of incorporation of the ripple platform - kind of dumb, but what can you do?
25500  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: December 08, 2015, 05:39:25 PM
I think that your assumption that most people here go by Stamps price is misguided. Finex has been the leading "western" exchange for quite some time and I see people here quoting that price most frequently. And if you don't believe me just ask Chart Buddy...

Precisely. I thought most people here switched to Finex after the Stamp hack as surely as they switched to Stamp after the first cracks started to show at Gox half a year before their demise.


You are correct that about a year ago, there was some loss of confidence in Bitstamp based on the "hack" and the period of its shut down and for a period of time after Bitstamp's shut down.... and Bitfinex and coinbase were added to Chartbuddy around that time because of Bitstamp's various issues around that time.

Nonetheless, Bitstamp has returned to various forums and discussion groups as the default price reference point for a variety of reasons including at minimum:

1) a) volume is more reliable because there are staggered fees
1) b) volume is more reliable because there is no margin trading

2) a few months ago bitfinex had its own loss of confidence issues with a series of shut downs and various investors questioning its solvency.
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