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2581  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Could the need of Bitcoin being more divisible lead to a hard fork? on: December 31, 2022, 02:39:14 PM
As an example, I believe block 74,638 back in 2010, well before my time, technically resulted in a hardfork.
I suppose you could argue that the bug itself was a hard fork, since it allowed the attacker to do something which everyone agreed should be invalid (create 92 billion bitcoin out of thin air). But the successful patch to fix it was a soft fork, as it was simply tightening the rules (by making such overflow incidents invalid). Even BIP50 wasn't really a hard fork, despite often being called such. I don't believe bitcoin has ever had a successful hard fork.

Was there no chain split for that one?
The presence or absence of a chain split does not give an indication as to whether a change was a soft or a hard fork. Although obviously a hard fork could result in a chain split, we could also code a hard fork (such as to fix the 2106 problem) decades in advance which would result in everybody running a compatible client well in advance and there being no chain split.
2582  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoiners kill Bitcoin, and governments are happy, boycott the CEXs on: December 31, 2022, 02:16:30 PM
Centralized exchanges report all your activities only if an order has been issued by a court, or something like that. They are not doing it by default, right?
As soon as you complete KYC on an exchange, then that exchange is cross referencing the data you provide them with identity data held by your government, so immediately your government can know that you have opened an account with that exchange. Most jurisdictions will require the exchanges to keep complete records of everything you are doing and provide them to various agencies in order to comply with AML laws, and similarly if you trade above a certain amount then you will be automatically reported to various agencies for tax reasons. None of this requires any suspicion of wrongdoing first. And even if they don't provide data to your government directly, we know that centralized exchanges all share or sell data to blockchain analysis companies (or even run their own blockchain analysis subsidiaries), and that governments extensively purchase data and rent the services of such companies.

I mean, just go and read the privacy policy of an exchange like Coinbase, for example: https://www.coinbase.com/legal/privacy. It is so extensive and all encompassing, it essentially gives them carte blanche to do anything they like with your data.
2583  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Can't we avoid reorgs once and for all? on: December 31, 2022, 01:52:16 PM
Couldn't there be a rule (that perhaps makes system more subjective in terms of consensus) which would make nodes reject those blocks, and decide objectively between 2 blocks (without waiting for the next one to be built on top)?
I don't think so. Or at least, not without fundamentally changing what bitcoin is.

At the moment, the split is resolved when one of the two competing blocks has more work built on top of it. That is the basis of proof of work. If you come up with some different mechanism to resolve the split, then it is no longer proof of work, but proof of something else. Further, what if your proposed mechanism resolved in the split in favor of Block A, but some miner running outdated code or different software or whatever accidentally built upon Block B before anyone else built upon Block A? Do we now ignore this chain with more work?
2584  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Can't we avoid reorgs once and for all? on: December 31, 2022, 10:52:03 AM
So you're asking: what happens if Miner C mines block 700,001 and 700,002 whose total work would be more than Miner A's 700,001 and 700,002 combined? They'd be reversed. Quite unusual though to mine 700,001 when we're already in 700,002, unless you want to attack the network.
It would not be a case of an attacker still working on 700,001 when the rest of the network has moved on to 700,002, but rather an attacker already mining 700,001 and keeping it secret.

To build on the selfish mining idea in achow101's third paragraph above, imagine a miner finds block 700,001, and it has an exceptionally low hash, which would be enough to overcome two or even three blocks which have an "average" hash. This miner also includes, in every block they mine, a private transaction moving a large amount of bitcoin from one address they own to another address they own, which was never broadcast to the wider network. The miner decides not to broadcast their block 700,001, but instead keep it secret and instead broadcast a transaction which spends the aforementioned large amount of bitcoin with a merchant, exchange, whatever. They let that transaction confirm in block 700,001 on the main chain, get 2 or maybe even 3 confirmations, and then successfully reverse it by broadcasting their replacement block 700,001, which has a sufficiently low hash to reverse three existing blocks.

There is nothing to stop every miner from including such a self transfer in every block they mine, and any time someone is lucky enough to find a very low hash they can keep their block secret and attempt a large double spend.
2585  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Technical Support / Re: Unconscious CPFP (I presume) on: December 31, 2022, 10:13:06 AM
Yeah, I would also have assumed that Electrum would have no issues RBFing the first transaction even if it invalidated the second one. The first transaction was definitely opted in to RBF?

I think you set your fee a bit high if you did 3x the recommended.
Not necessarily if the fee on the second transaction was also being used to bump the first. Most wallets and software will base their suggested fee only on the size of the child transaction, and will not include the size of any unconfirmed parent transactions. Depending on the sizes of the two transactions, you might end up needing 10x or more the recommended fee on the child transaction to get the combined fee for both transactions up to a suitable level.
2586  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Could the need of Bitcoin being more divisible lead to a hard fork? on: December 31, 2022, 09:59:55 AM
There has never been in the history of bitcoin that a hard fork bitcoin has ever become successful, the ones they did in the early days of bitcoin and the ones they did in the all-time high price of bitcoin to date have not reached the half potential of bitcoin
A hard fork does not necessarily imply creation of a new shitcoin, such as in the BCash fork. It is possible to implement a hard fork which the entire network agrees upon, which results in everyone staying on the main chain and no chain split. A hard fork simply means that the rules are being relaxed, and something which was previously invalid is now considered valid.
2587  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Technical Support / Re: Privacy wallets on: December 31, 2022, 09:44:37 AM
wrapped tokens that enable utility and are sufficiently liquid are still by default classified as shitcoins here?
Not your keys, not your coins. I don't want to swap my coins for some wrapped token which introduces significant risk in that whichever party issued those wrapped tokens can exit scam me or go bankrupt at any time. Not to mention that using a centralized chain which issues wrapped tokens provides zero privacy.

And directly from the privacy policy:
You agree to permit us to track your activities on the Website and the Apps.

I'll be avoiding this one, thanks.
2588  Bitcoin / Wallet software / Re: Privacy Questions: Public Servers, TOR, VPN, etc. on: December 31, 2022, 09:20:45 AM
I still am not ready for various next steps (my own node, Bitcoin Core, Sparrow wallet, Linux, hardware requirements, etc.) because I don't know enough about them, and they seem daunting.
I would say that the best way to learn is simply to try it. You don't need to spend any bitcoin (or any other money) or set up any wallets holding actual bitcoin in order to install Linux on an old device, set up Core, run Electrum or Sparrow, etc., and just get a feel for how they all work and interact. The best way to learn is by doing! Once you've played around with the software for a while, then you can commit a tiny amount of bitcoin to try the actual send/receive functions, or alternatively run everything on testnet and practice for free.

All of the software you have mentioned - Linux, Core, Sparrow, Electrum - have extensive set up guides and documentation, as well as a very helpful online community here which can assist with any troubleshooting.
2589  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin decimals. Is 1.00000000 Bitcoin the same as 1.000000000000 Bitcoin? on: December 31, 2022, 09:15:33 AM
it changes the number of halving events
You keep repeating this like it is a foregone conclusion, but it would be trivial to cap the number of halving events to ensure that the final supply is not changed. And even if this wasn't done, the difference from the rounding errors of 1 sat being the smallest unit compared to 1 millisat being the smallest unit are trivial. As things stand, the final number of bitcoin mined will be 20,999,999.97690000. If we converted to millisats before the first halving which it would matter (the 10th halving, which goes from 0.09765625 BTC to 0.04882812 BTC), then the final number of bitcoin mined will be 20,999,999.99997060. The "new bitcoin" as you put it would amount to around 0.02 BTC, and all your nonsense about 1.3 million new bitcoin is obviously just that - complete nonsense.
2590  Bitcoin / Wallet software / Re: Privacy Questions: Public Servers, TOR, VPN, etc. on: December 29, 2022, 05:30:41 PM
Are you sure that you are using the latest version of Sparrow wallet version 1.7.1?
There are several options to import mnemonic words(BIP39), Electrum import, and Master Private Key (BIP32),
But no option to import an individual address or private key. I even tried making a watch only wallet in Electrum containing individual addresses (rather than from an xpub) and importing that Electrum file to Sparrow, but it returned an error about an invalid wallet type.
2591  Bitcoin / Wallet software / Re: Privacy Questions: Public Servers, TOR, VPN, etc. on: December 29, 2022, 09:26:44 AM
I confirm that I still need Electrum to use ChipMixer.  Tongue
Ahh, I haven't tried importing individual private keys in to Sparrow yet. Do you run in to the same problem as I did above trying to import individual addresses to a watch only wallet - i.e. you can't do it?
2592  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin decimals. Is 1.00000000 Bitcoin the same as 1.000000000000 Bitcoin? on: December 29, 2022, 09:25:28 AM
no we do not
stop playing user display cludgy math games to pretend proposals to break bitcoin code rules and data structures is a nothing burger..
look at actual bitcoin raw transaction data, there are no fractions
and no a hard drive does not see #'vbyte'
hard drives count data in actual bytes.

again you arw talking about human cludgy math, of the human GUI display of how bad math wants to calculate a fee based on data it ignores "for discount" or pretends is 4x bigger than actual bytes for legacy
Another excellent strawman. You should try arguing against things that are actually said, instead of just inventing points which weren't made to argue against.

Obviously there is no fraction of raw bytes, and I never claimed that there was. There is however, undeniably, fractions of virtual bytes. BIP 141 is quite clear that transactions are measured in weight units, and that virtual bytes are equal to weight units divided by 4, which leaves us with fractions of virtual bytes, which are then rounded up to the nearest whole byte for the purpose of calculating the fee.

you are again trying to set up a narrative that we actually do have sub units of sats on bitcoin
That's the exact opposite of what I said, when I pointed out that a minimum fee of 1000 sats/kvB obviously does not allow you to pay 172.25 sats for a transaction which weighs 689 weight units / 172.25 vbytes since fractions of a satoshi do not exist on the main chain, and so the minimum fee must be 173 sats.

Try actually pausing and reading what people are writing before launching in to another tirade.
2593  Bitcoin / Wallet software / Re: Privacy Questions: Public Servers, TOR, VPN, etc. on: December 29, 2022, 09:10:00 AM
That's one of the things I like most about Sparrow.  If you have an unpruned core running, you don't need an SPV server at all.   Sparrow can connect it directly to core, no need to set up additional software or jeopardize your privacy.
Yeah. I've only really tinkered with Sparrow as opposed to using it as a proper wallet yet (mostly because I see no reason to mess with all my various cold storage wallets which have caused me no issue for many years), but I was pretty impressed with just how easy it was to link it to my node. I've not used Sparrow enough nor examined the code enough to start recommending it like I do with Electrum, but it certainly seems like a strong contender on the privacy front since, as you say, it does away with the need to configure and run an Electrum server.

The only thing so far that I didn't like about Sparrow (or maybe I just couldn't figure out how to do it) was to create a watch only wallet involving individual addresses like you can do on Electrum. It seemed the only way to create a watch only wallet on Sparrow was via an xpub or similar, and therefore impossible to have addresses from different wallets in the same watch only wallet.
2594  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin decimals. Is 1.00000000 Bitcoin the same as 1.000000000000 Bitcoin? on: December 28, 2022, 09:23:37 PM
Side note, you don't need a hardfork to add (a few) extra decimal places. There is some parameter in Bitcoin Core which lets you configure the minimum transaction fee of tx's your node will relay (-minrelaytx?). It's default value is 1000 sats/kB (kilobyte). You can change this to as low as 1, and get 3 extra decimal places used, for a total of 11 decimals.
That's not how it works.

The value you are thinking of is the MIN_RELAY_TX_FEE (https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/e9262ea32a6e1d364fb7974844fadc36f931f8c6/src/policy/policy.h#L57), which is indeed set at 1000 sats/kvB (which is equivalent to 1 sat/vB). However, this only applies to the fee paid for a transaction. Sure, you can change it to 1 sat/kvB if you want, meaning that a 250 vB transaction would only have to pay at least 2.5 sats in fees, which would in reality mean it had to pay a minimum of 3 sats. However, none of that allows you to send fractions of a satoshi as a fee or to create outputs which include fractions of a satoshi. It simply sets a lower limit for what your fee can be.

Because transactions are actually measured in weight units, we already have transactions which are fractions of a vbyte in size. For example, here is one I just pulled from my mempool: https://mempool.space/tx/5cf1d3b06cdb4dcd4513a42d6d3b19691558326af4ca11b961d852e39d9ed402. It has a virtual size of 172.25 vB, meaning the minimum fee required for this transaction would be 172.25 sats. But of course we cannot pay a fee of 172.25 sats, so the minimum fee would be 173 sats.
2595  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: what are the disadvantages of paper wallet on: December 28, 2022, 05:51:00 PM
So your wallet is not yet active until you enter your information online and  your wallet is connected to a live block chain.
That's not how wallets work. They do not need to be activated and they do not need to be connected to a live blockchain. Any valid bitcoin address already exists and can have coins sent to it, regardless of whether or not it has actually been generated by a wallet. It is entirely possible to create a wallet which is permanently offline and is never connected to the internet in any way, which will sign transaction offline, and it is only the transaction which is broadcasted to the network.

Hard ware wallets are too expensive and the setup process can be quite tedious for newbies.
If you think the process of setting up a hardware wallet is too complicated for newbies, then a paper wallet is a very poor alternative suggestion. It is significantly harder to generate a paper wallet in a secure manner than it is to set up a hardware wallet, and it is significantly easier to mess up when generating or using a paper wallet and end up losing all your coins.
2596  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Could the need of Bitcoin being more divisible lead to a hard fork? on: December 28, 2022, 05:42:14 PM
wrong
Here's a quote from the comments in the very code that you just linked to:

As milli-satoshis aren't deliverable on the native blockchain, before settling to broadcasting, the values are rounded down to the nearest satoshi.
Which is exactly what I said. If you close a channel which is holding some number of millisats, then the transaction broadcast to the main chain will be rounded down to the nearest whole sat. Or here is another quote from BOLT #3:

The amounts for each output MUST be rounded down to whole satoshis.
So no, what I said is very much not wrong.
2597  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin decimals. Is 1.00000000 Bitcoin the same as 1.000000000000 Bitcoin? on: December 28, 2022, 03:02:34 PM
please please pelase go look at the transactions and coin rewards of 2009 in actual byte form data. (true data form) and realise that a coin reward was never 50.00
it was always 5,000,000,000 units. it was just the GUI front end graphic display for human eye interpreted as 50.00.. but that was not the actual hard code rule
I mean, as DooMAD has pointed out, I literally said that a satoshi has always been the base unit in the very post you quoted, but feel free to create more strawmen at which to direct your rage.

My math tells that no matter how many zeroes are after the decimal point, if they're all zero it's the same number.
Absolutely. Take a meter. It does not matter if you divide that in to 100 centimeters, or 1,000 millimeters, or 1,000,000,000 nanometers. You will never have more than 1 meter.

If it were the case that dividing bitcoin in to millisats was effectively creating more bitcoin, then why is Lightning bitcoin the same value as on-chain bitcoin? It should be that Lightning bitcoin is 1/1000th the price of on-chain bitcoin, since there are 1000 times more units in the form of millisats. This is obviously not the case, because dividing a fixed supply in to smaller units is not the same as increasing the supply.
2598  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin decimals. Is 1.00000000 Bitcoin the same as 1.000000000000 Bitcoin? on: December 28, 2022, 12:46:16 PM
Satoshi had no issue with further subdivision: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=44.msg267#msg267

When bitcoin was first launched, the term "satoshi" in reference to the smallest unit did not exist. Most people did not even know what the smallest unit was. The software at the time showed bitcoin as 1.00, and most people thought bitcoin was divisible by 100. At some point, we transitioned to bitcoin being divisible by 100,000,000. No one complained then that suddenly there were a million times more bitcoin, and the cap of 21 million had suddenly become 21 trillion because of 6 more places after the decimal point.

Further subdivision is obviously a far more complex issue given that a satoshi is the base unit as far as the software goes. But it seems Satoshi would not consider millisats to be an inflation in supply:

Same amount of money, just different convention for where the ","'s and "."'s go.  e.g. moving the decimal place 3 places would mean if you had 1.00000 before, now it shows it as 1,000.00.

So if you had 1 sat before, it now shows as 1.000 sats. "Same amount of money", in the words of Satoshi.
2599  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Full RBF on: December 28, 2022, 09:19:13 AM
Does anyone know of any command for bitcoind to check whether the Full RBF option is enabled? I just want to get confirmation.
getmempoolinfo should do it. As of 24.0.0, this now includes a field entitled "fullrbf" which returns true or false depending on if you have enabled full RBF.

And although I've not tried it, the next time you make a transaction you could ensure it is opted out to RBF and then you should be able to use testmempoolaccept to test whether or not your node would accept a replacement. Or, you know, just actually broadcast a replacement and see that it works.

Alternatively, you could also take a look here: https://fullrbf.mempool.observer/. Find a transaction which as been replaced but neither the original nor the replacement has been mined yet, and then use getmempoolentry to see if the replacement is in your mempool.
2600  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: Transfer bitcoins without internet on: December 28, 2022, 09:10:28 AM
Well hold on now. Would it be possible, technically, if for example he lived in a small village with a computer and a landline but without internet, and he had a fax machine, could he not develop a method of connecting the reconfigured fax to a node (which has internet access) through that landline and the node would broadcast to the blockchain? Technically he would be sending Bitcoin payments without internet connection.
That would certainly be possible, although there are probably easier ways of doing it than reprogramming a fax machine.

As I said in my reply which you quoted, the individuals themselves don't necessarily need internet access, but the transaction must reach the internet somehow. If there is a local node with internet access, then any method of getting your signed transaction to that local node to be broadcast would work. Transmitting over telephone lines via a modem, a reprogrammed fax machine, or something else, is certainly a possibility, as is radio, mesh networks, SMS, going there in person with the transaction on a USB drive, and so on.
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