Does someone knows the percentage of Asian Mt Gox users? What if they all decide to sell there Bitcoins when the bad news is becoming public? Lets say 75 percent off the users is Asian. With a price of 280 dollar atm the price after the sell should be 70 dollar on Gox. Lets keep it realistic and lets say that 40 percent of that 75 percent Asians sells off by hearing the news. Then we have a bitcoin price on MT Gox around 125 dollar in about 4 hours? I feel sorry for the people who the people who kept trust and have to sell below that 125 dollar.  Are you the egg or the hen of that "public" news? |
|
|
|
From http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1ymwzj/mtgox_still_authoring_invalid_transactions/(According to an earlier post on that thread, user @nullc is Gregory Maxwell, one of the core developers) @nullc 114 points 21 hours ago I haven't seen any evidence that they're testing anything just the regular dust sweeping transactions that they've had going on continually. Initially when MTGox suspended withdraws I was fairly confident that all would be fixed soon (and said so as much on Reddit) their technical issues were simple, and with proper controls in place could not have resulted in especially large losses. I especially expected losses to be small considering that they were reported by users and not discovered by MTGox themselves. Considering MTGox's subsequent behavior the extended outage, talk of withdraw limits, etc, I'm no longer confident of anything.  Are there any news newer than this one, about the "MtGOX is testing" rumor? Not that I have seen since - saw that yesterday - and I am pretty convinced from having read that thread it is indeed Greg Maxwell - he basically said they still haven't fixed it, and he wasn't at all convinced they were even close to doing it. What will get fixed by tomorrows laywer announcement is the drain of Gox assets by the Sepa and Yen accounts... To get a complete overview of the situation the system will need to be in a stable state  |
|
|
|
I didn't understand either. I thought it was mark doing some kind of manipulation to wipe out everyone who attempted to trade.
It was Mark and cronies selling...no one else ever did !...Btc withdrawl never opens again...you wonīt see Mark ever again in public ! The Sepa and Yen queues will work as long as there is more inflow than outflow when not being seized finally. Everything else is complete brain -dead shell speculation. Cheers |
|
|
|
The recent price rise at Gox just screwed me majorly.
+1 So you've both sold goxcoins for less than $200? 140  Y u no www.bitcoinbuilder.com ? They did on plus 500 for sure |
|
|
|
The bad node shits on a mad crowd and so the blockchain servs the serfs to hand their head to them. Satoshi never ment the blockchain to work as a chain -letter but thats what you get when being sold out to Goldman -Sucks. Long live Litecoin and the second market ! Which is a clone of the bitcoin code with a different hash algorithm and some time/count adjustments ................ Nobody said the blockchain is a wrong idea but the real world abuse of bitcoin makes it obsolete for the idea come through. Asic, Mt. GOX and bitcoinfoundation. All not to be found in Litcoin and that makes it better suited for all peer to peer uses even micropayments.... Lets leave those fucking bitcoins to the crooks, its hopelessly overvalued and gotten oppressive ! |
|
|
|
The bad node shits on a mad crowd and so the blockchain servs the serfs to hand their head to them. Satoshi never ment the blockchain to work as a chain -letter but thats what you get when being sold out to Goldman -Sucks. Long live Litecoin and the second market ! |
|
|
|
they are testing withdraw now
Yeah they're 'testing' by sending cheaply bought bitcoins to their accounts on coinbase, bitstamp, and other exchanges to sell. Why do you think the price is dropping on other exchanges? If bitcoins weren't getting out, prices would stay the same elsewhere. No...show me one person who panic- sold them a bitcoin under 300 dollars ! Did you? They are selling ! And you know why? cause they only can still get those balances to the Bahamas... And as every other exchange will do this as well cause its tolerated, every cautious investor sells his stash down to get the fuck out of dodge. Any other speculation serves to make cashing out for the early whales that much easier as the bagholders even send the crooks more money...Congrats |
|
|
|
Really, smoothie? In the past few days, the following arbitrage opportunity has emerged: Send money to MtGox, buy up goxBTC, sell goxBTC at the going rate, liquidate the realBTC elsewhere => profit. If you can do it in a reasonable timeframe, then it's pretty good.
The more money is made by this arbitrage the emptier empty -Gox gets when the die is cast . |
|
|
|
NOTE: The 95% confidence interval for both predictions is [ 0, +∞ ].
LOL Please show me one panicked person who sold a bitcoin under 300 dollars at Gox -- there are none---- so they are 100 % bankrupt and all central exchanges are toast......how long the confidence interval in bitcoin will be lost thats now up to speculation. |
|
|
|
I took my profits even before the DDOS hit. The rumour this rally is based on is bull fud and the market will be back close to what it was within 8 hours.
I sold a tiny bit myself, but I'm less confident than you are. 1. It's Sunday in Japan. Gox doesn't do anything on weekends. 2. Gmaxwell has said the transactions are just standard Gox dust sweeping transactions. 3. Gox is still today trying to spend immature coins and the transactions are failing as a result. 4. Although the people on this forum appear to be living in the mistaken belief that insolvencies are resolved in a number of weeks, they aren't. They grind out for years. 5. The only decent hope for a rally in the short term is other good news outweighing Gox. It's a Sunday. Major announcements don't get made on Sundays. 6. There is some hope for a good Neo announcement on Monday. Until then risks are to the downside. Again, your big assumption is that Gox is insolvent. If you are wrong the rest of your list can be thrown out the window. Wind - please explain to me why JPY withdrawals have a queue at least a month long. Dude. Everyone wants an explanation for everything and when they can't get one they make up their own. I don't have an explanation for you. But your have nothing but pure speculation to suggest insolvency. Unless you can get me direct access to Mark for 24 hours then I will not attempt to speculate. You can. But that doesn't mean you are any closer to the truth than anyone else. Anyone who dares to think thouroughly about who the hell is selling nearly 1 million bitcoins at Gox under 300 dollars donesnīt need to speculate anymore !! thats a no brainer as there are plenty of no brainers at bitcoinbuilder ! Of course insiders cannot sell there but its them who sell at Mt. Gox as they canīt sell at bitstamp without faking identity ! And who might know best about solvency .....those that are riding in the sunset or those who send even more money there to help feeding the ponzi....? Gox was criminal right from the getgo , now its cashing out time ---everybody making up fairytales has an interest and serves as an useful idiot, who is complicit that even more money of bitcoin -community gets stolen ! |
|
|
|
The fear that yesterdays fear might have been groundless. Poeple at bitcoinbuilder donīt think of the bull FUD as groundless... They are still betting that they gonna recover 60 % in bankruptcy of empty-Gox laywer-fees included. It canīt get any better - they are no brainer - get in on it |
|
|
|
Severance26
I can agree with some of your points but let me ask you why mark is running such masive exchange in spite?
If he has those issues he really can not solve it, then excuse me but run exchange only in japan and for japanesse customers.
Mark want to operate big exchange in spite- that does not make sense to me.
Edit
And i agree with rampion post what follow.
Why does the trading continue? It is obvious the Gox rates are way off from the market. Why does Mt.Gox insist on not shutting down the trading? Any normal exchange would have put a halt on trading until everything gets fixed. However, Mt.Gox clearly is not, so it is likely gaming this situation for themselves. There is only the laywers game to find an excuse why they didnīt file for bankrutcy instantly. Only because the accounts still havenīt been frozen yet and Mark is not in cuffs , they can sell even more BTC at higher prices which still is being send offshore and a few crumps to feed the Sepa and Yen queues. As there are coming truckloads of new money thats going to be the heist of the century - Yawn  Once in a while feeding a rumor to the idiot tech community might help |
|
|
|
That was it what was ment by all the central banks warnings : WTF you want to use a workaround, so we canīt rob you through inflation anymore ?? Then people be prepared that we will show you how much you lose when we let other crooks stealing everything at once You wonīt even get a license to protest it ! |
|
|
|
well, my speculation as to the announcement was off, but the announcement is still consistent with what I believe to be happening. the announcement was carefully worded and certainly has nothing to do with malleability. "security problems" and "technical challenges" is not mentioned as having anything to do with malleability or hacking, and could easily be referring to financial security and order fulfillment technical challenges.
the office building move due to security problems is worrisome though. certainly no one walked in with a gun and stole the btc. even if they did, moving office buildings is not a solution.
so what is "moving back into the old office" a solution to?
1) not being able to afford the new facility anymore (a move as part of a business plan to get back on track financially). this is a sudden move, and it seems odd that it coincides with the downtime. it seems like they would just move back quietly when no one was looking if financial hard times had been building (which was my speculation). this is more indicative of a sudden, unexpected financial loss... perhaps the malleability issue really is at the core and mt gox had a huge qty of coins stolen at nearly the same time as SR2.0. the idea that they really were hacked lines up with this action, as much as i doubted it to be true. i guess they wouldn't want to announce a huge loss through hacking since it would demolish the exchange immediately.
2) i think, very unfortunately, that this moving offices lines up better with my original speculation - due solely to the cryptic references to the japanese gov't meetings, and "making sure they were doing everything in accordance with local law." this just doesn't fit the hacking and sudden loss of coins theory very well (they may have gone to the authorities over it... but "following all laws"? what could they be doing, putting out a hit on the theives?). what does fit it well?
Bankruptcy.
bankruptcy with a gov't contingency that they can attempt to still operate the exchange in order to attempt pay back whatever portion of (apparently unpayable) debt they can manage. in bankruptcy, existing nonessential assets are seized, often the leadership is replaced (watch for a mention of staff leaving or Mark leaving), and the company is allowed to operate once again. Unfortunately, the bankruptcy plan process can take a while - perhaps longer than they thought?
About the office building Read: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1ygedk/mtgoxs_new_office_is_literally_a_virtual_office/They are backing out of their assets so they can vanish into thin air.... The security problem is the fact that lawsuits could get their money they are taking time to put it into an offshore account Finally it appears people are coming to their senses ! Its clearly written on the wall....still the Stockholm syndrom unleashes one theory after the other why it canīt be so  ! The stunner is that the selling of all remnants at Gox still goes on and the heist gets bigger by the minute - hilarious those bitcoiners |
|
|
|
Severance26: Gox has an European branch, registered in Warsaw. When you send a SEPA deposit to Gox you are sending the money to MtGox Poland Inc Sp.z.o.o, which is NOT a Japanese company but a polish one, with a bank account in a LOCAL bank. Mizuho or Japan NET are not involved at all in SEPA deposits and transfers.
And this account needs to be seized as early as possible if anybody wants to see some of the bankruptcy proceedings as it will be emptied as the rest of the shell ---- if not by depositors than by the cronies and laywers. Unbelievable that all accounts are still free to be grapped for everybody even for the disappeared Mark  |
|
|
|
Ok, I'll bite. They only have this money cause they are at the head of the chain -letter...its exactly like pirate@40
How is it exactly like pirate@40, that was clearly a scam from the get go. when the chain breaks the last ones suck it up......so even you and me who got out a bit earlier are profiteering
Can that not be applied to any business that eventually goes titts up? If you invest in a company and you gain a healthy profit from speculating in stocks of that company, and then the company later goes bankrupt and all investors lose their money, would that not be the same? on the backs of those who get nothing. And so is bitcoin rightfully in itself a ponzi as well, untill it has real world use besides
How is bitcoin equal to MtGox? If MtGox dies, bitcoin does not die. defrauding people at the centralised unregulated exchanges.
While it's true that the market is unregulated, scams have also taken place in regulated markets. Just look at the Madoff investment scandal. It seems like regulation itself is not guarantee for things being done in a legit way. None of those BTC riches was rightfully gained through saving -nvestment cause all profits only came from new money flocking into it.
And how did Apple stocks, Google stocks, Microsoft stocks or any other stock growing in value not grow in value because of new money flocking into it? While you could say that they have real product and services, bitcoin also has grown considerably and today there are several major commercial players, and trade is also increasing steadily. It's true there's been some bubbles, but there's also been bubbles in traditional markets. Anyone that chooses to participate in such a market, must also be able to face consequences when the bubble bursts. Now the tide goes out and everybody sees that his wealth in btc is long squandered away.....Mt Gox as a market leader reflects
the real Marketcap. the early adopters want to get away with.
MtGox btc price is artificially lowered and does not reflect the current real value of btc. You are right capatalism- or better lets say the control of the money supply- in itself is a chain -letter where those at the printing presses ripp-off the rest as they rule at their fingertips when the music stops and then grap all real assets of those who tried to be productive. Its a complete scam. BTC just is special as most of the community thought it to be ment for getting out of this greedy slavery ! And surely am hoping for peer to peer evolution after those centralised exchanges and the corrupted bitcoinfoundation get extinct ! Unluckily it seems that nobody get indicted in BTC world yet when stealing depositors blind. |
|
|
|
didnīt you guys get the memo ? 1) mtgox found out that the bug is a bug that canīt be fixed. 2) core devs/earliest investors found out gox is right about the impossibility to fix it. 3) bitcoin will blow completely 4) core devs/early dudes have their stashes traditionally on gox and asked kindly if the could get out. 5) MK (already rich) felt that he could do those guys (who made him so rich) a last favour: ok, you guys have one week to sell your coins on gox and withdraw the cash secretly, coming thursday i let everything blow. gox was anyway bankrupt, this way MK can blame the core devs... & they remain silent since they need the cash. disclaimer: Thats it ! No other convoluted theory can explain the huge volume selling from 300 to a 100 bucks ! Donīt you hear maxwell covering his ass ? You wonīt see Mark again only laywer statements. This much money (your money) is still, as we speak, drained to whatever accounts he wishes ! The japanese authorities are apparently bought off and all prooving data magically disappeared in the office change or due to some other technical bug. ( His laywers are already working at the closing announcement ) And every other exchange is entitelt to do exactly the same------bitcoin is fucked as its headed by thiefs Cheers |
|
|
|
The thing that delayed my recognition for so long, is the fact that these guys have so much money already - why would they need to steal more? Any credible ideas?
They only have this money cause they are at the head of the chain -letter...its exactly like pirate@40 when the chain breaks the last ones suck it up......so even you and me who got out a bit earlier are profiteering on the backs of those who get nothing. And so is bitcoin rightfully in itself a ponzi as well, untill it has real world use besides defrauding people at the centralised unregulated exchanges. None of those BTC riches was rightfully gained through saving -nvestment cause all profits only came from new money flocking into it. Now the tide goes out and everybody sees that his wealth in btc is long squandered away.....Mt Gox as a market leader reflects the real Marketcap. the early adopters want to get away with. |
|
|
|
The bitcoinfoundation exists courtesy of Mt. Gox to steal and has stolen their BTC from the community via this outlet. The proof is in the pudding when Mt. Gox gets unglued as their shady records of insider fraud comes to light. When the tide goes out a lot of people will be found to have been swimming naked for a long long time already ! |
|
|
|
the experience of owning some btc and using it yourself is beyond description and without this particular experience you can't ever hope to approach anything resembling an "objective opinion" on the technology.
+1 that is correct. once you have used the bitcoin protocol, experience the smoothness, the speed, the power to move wealth with you fingertips, its elegance and that is it is bringing financial sovereignty to yourself, it becomes more obvious to you, that the traditional way to bank people is utterly non-modern, as outdated as public stagecoaches in times of internet/email. the internet revolutionized the way we communicate. bitcoin will monetarize the internet and revolutionize the way we move money. Bitcoin is overhyped, overvalued, overcentralized...see Gox, Asic and the bitcoinfoundation full of corrupted fucktards who want to sell out to Goldman Sucks... Any other crypto is better...especially Litecoin is faster and more promising....get off the dying horse... |
|
|
|
|
Show Posts
)
