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2601  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: When do we expect Lightning Network to come out? on: January 01, 2018, 06:29:34 PM
Just wondering what could be the motivation for exchanges to implement LN if they still didn't support  Segwit? I hope I'm wrong but exchanges are struggling with this amount of newcomers and transaction count, what if the segwit and LN go live and they have to deal with much higher traffic. I don't know if they will be able to upgrade their service by the time LN comes, they still have time but there's a really need for upgrade from their side. Just have a look at Kraken, when the price of bitcoin moves a lot they're struggling with the load on their website...


It would be an interesting dynamic if merchants (ie. BitPay) where to implement LN before most major exchanges. Meaning, people would have a higher incentive to use BTC as a means of payment instead of trying to dump it on the next exchange whenever the chance arises.

Also, whatever exchange is first to offer LN will likely have an edge in terms of liquidity, as people would be more likely to deposit with them.

Either way, very valid concerns. I hope LN is easier to integrate than SegWit, albeit I fear that this won't be the case.
2602  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: Bitcoin will never be used for trading. Discuss. on: January 01, 2018, 05:54:00 PM
Bitcoin will never be used for trading. Why?

...as mentioned by the other posts, BTC actually is used for trading, but I guess you are talking about BTC as a large scale payment network.


- Extremely slow transactions
- High fees

Fees were low and accepting instant 0-conf transactions for small amounts was viable until just about a year ago.

Transactions will be instant and cheap again, once Lightning Network is deployed.


- Inability to solve these issues due to lack of consensus, poor governance, and a generally toxic relationship between investors and the technology

Everyone who disagreed with the approach the core development team was taking simply forked off. Those that stuck to core are pretty much on the same page right now. It was a slow, painful process with a lot of drama, but in the end everyone got what they wanted.


Now I could be wrong, and I would gladly accept that I am wrong if someone could give me clear, coherent, and rational reason for utilizing bitcoin as a actual cryptocurrency and not a cryptocommodity.

You can use Bitcoin as whatever you want. You can choose alts over Bitcoin, if that makes more sense to you. That's the beauty of a free market of currencies.

2603  Economy / Speculation / Re: Too Many Gloom & Doomers! on: January 01, 2018, 04:54:57 PM
believe it or not all of this drama is because bitcoin stopped rising!
most people are expecting bitcoin to be rising constantly without even having a correction, let alone some bigger drop and some downtime even if it were at a stable price during an accumulation phase.

thanks for sharing this. at least you had some analysis behind what said... I liked the tutorial links too.

Bitcoin just going sideways for months is a total nightmare for so many noobs and will make them lose hope, giving up.
Not having the patience and unable to grasp the bigger picture of what Bitcoin really is about makes them sell their stash.
This is the advantage of us who are in this space for a few years and where not that much distracted by shitcoins, endless hardforks, and ICOs.
We had the time to study Bitcoin and know how it feels to go through bear phases or just long consolidation periods.

"sideways for months". i doubt that can ever happen with bitcoin!
the ATH was less than 20 days ago and the rise officially stopped in less than 10 days ago! and this sideways movement has only lasted for this 10 days which happens to also be the end of the year, aka holidays Tongue

besides, who cares about people who "lose hope" just because price is not rising. i would very much prefer them to lose their hopes faster and leave the market so we can have a calmer market without their irrational moves.

Amen to that. Reading through some of the recent posts one would assume that we are already in the midst of a new crypto winter.

As if Bitcoin is dying just because it stopped growing for a few days. As if Bitcoin has failed just because it's running at capacity right now.

Anyone who believes that Bitcoin's main value proposition lies in ever-rising prices deserves to get shaken off by the market.
2604  Economy / Speculation / Re: Bitcoin Will Be $120,000 on: January 01, 2018, 04:28:17 PM
Why are you making so many threads all saying the same thing like 'BTC will be 100k, BTC will be 500k'

That way whenever one of their predictions come true they can point to the respective thread as having known it all along :p

(and probably to spam their youtube links)
2605  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: Options available for selling out if my ship comes in? on: January 01, 2018, 04:36:24 AM
1) Don't store your coins on Coinbase, withdraw them to a wallet of your own. Mobile, desktop... doesn't really matter. Anything would be better than Coinbase. Best case use a hardware wallet. If you're talking BTC I'd recommend Electrum as desktop wallet or Trezor / Ledger Nano S as hardware wallet.

2) Don't sell your coins on Coinbase exclusively, there's a lot of other exchanges to choose from. Just make sure to complete the verification process ahead of time, as this can take multiple days. Check which withdrawal limits apply to you ahead of time, to avoid unpleasant surprises.
2606  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: What do you want to Buy with Bitcoin? on: January 01, 2018, 04:13:58 AM
Cost of living for the next couple decades so I am free to work as much or as little as I want, on whatever project interests me, without bothering about contract work to pay the rent.

Dat ticket to Mars tho
2607  Bitcoin / Hardware wallets / Re: Hardware wallet security question on: January 01, 2018, 02:09:56 AM
Hardware wallets store your private keys on a section of a flash memory card that can not be accessed by your PC.

When connecting a hardware wallet to your PC, all your PC does is communicate with the firmware of the hardware wallet, without even being aware of the data behind it. Whenever you send a transaction using a hardware wallet, all it does is return the signed transaction when requested, without the private key ever touching your operating system.

So basically a hardware wallet is like a tiny, airgapped, highly secured PC.
2608  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: When do we expect Lightning Network to come out? on: January 01, 2018, 01:41:18 AM
[...]

LN developers were recently quoted as saying they are "not going to rush anything" since there will be so much money on the line once LN launches. they are very concerned about funds being lost due to corner cases they haven't discovered yet.

[...]

That's good to hear. While I want LN to be deployed yesterday, a rushed release is the last thing we need, even if it means that BTC loses some of its market cap along the way.

Everyone who fears alts overtaking BTC due to a belated LN release is missing the big picture. Everyone who expects alts overtaking BTC due to LN failing, does so regardless of a release date.


Probably in 2 years if the core get their shit together

LN is worked on by 3 different dev teams, none of which is core (albeit individual devs intersect, obviously)
2609  Economy / Speculation / Re: Bearish sentiment starting to dominate Tradingview on: January 01, 2018, 01:24:00 AM
it's a dangerous period. BTC lacks the new fresh buying power coming into the market as FOMO is over.
i personally would not recommend people from short selling BTC however it's also not advisable to add to positions now.

A dangerous period indeed, but I'm not sure about FOMO being over. BTC turned a lot of heads when it broke USD 10,000,-, many of which likely didn't take positions yet due to the madness of the last few weeks. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the money that missed the (close to) USD 20,000,- train is watching from the sidelines right now, waiting for the right time to enter the market.
2610  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Descending Family Tree of Bitcoin on: December 31, 2017, 07:08:04 PM
Oh boy, this is indeed happening. Nice graph btw. Now if only one could safely access these forks without exposing their private keys, that'd be grrreat. However I hardly expect hardware wallet providers to implement every shitfork there is.

Still waiting for people hardforking the hardforks, that should make for an interesting dynamic if pulled off well.
2611  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: What happened to Block 501915? on: December 31, 2017, 06:17:24 PM
The block was mined with only 1 transaction and the transaction value is exactly 12.5 BTC. I don't think this is a coincidence that this value equates to the reward of successful block mined. Is there any connection with the block that had 1 transaction where the miner never collected the reward?

https://blockchain.info/block/0000000000000000004982f753c0cc52f9535c45a7df720c5e02cd4ecc0a38a8

-Crypto Piece

It has nothing to do with the miner that never collected the reward, it's just a miner that has mined an empty block. Even if the mempool is full a block may contain no transactions and still be valid. It happens from time to time, unfortunately. The single transaction within the block is simply the block reward as you very well observed.
2612  Economy / Economics / Re: Is it possible to survive on crypto while pursuing MS in the US or Germany? on: December 31, 2017, 04:57:18 PM
I can keep using sites like localbitcoin or paxful right? My concern is what about the bank account? I reckon I can have a bank account while in another country, so once I do encash to my bank account will that create legal problems for me?

Localbitcoins has stopped their services in Germany, be aware of that. Paxful, I don't know about. If you want to live off crypto while in Germany, you'll likely have to rely on exchanges such as Kraken, Bitcoin.de or Bitstamp. There shouldn't be any legal problems (disclaimer: not a lawyer) but be aware that while you reside in Germany, any incoming bank transaction from outside Germany of EUR 12,500,- or more needs to be reported to your local authorities and bank beforehand (AWV Meldepflicht). Otherwise you might head into trouble.
2613  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: Which exchange has the largest number of coins? on: December 31, 2017, 04:34:11 PM
Are you on about which exchange allows the trading of the widest range of crypto-currencies or which exchange actually holds the biggest amount of coins in total? The exchange you listed are probably the biggest ones out there, so I'm not sure you will find a bigger one.

Looking for an exchange that has the widest range of cryptos available...all that I mentioned are good but not all coins are available there...

Bittrex and cryptopia.co.nz have the widest range of cryptos from what I've seen. If you are looking to trade ERC20 tokens you'll likely have to use etherdelta, as only few of them are listed on centralized exchanges.

If you're looking for specific coins to trade, why not check on coinmarketcap which market covers the most alts that you are interested in?
2614  Economy / Speculation / Re: Bearish sentiment starting to dominate Tradingview on: December 31, 2017, 10:00:53 AM
https://www.tradingview.com/symbols/BTCUSD/page-3/

As I scroll thru the pages the bearish posts are starting to dominate. Before it was much more green lights than red lights.



Good. The sooner people get their bearish tendencies out of their system, the sooner we'll reach the bottom. I personally believe it's still too early to call the bear market in though.
2615  Economy / Speculation / Re: Bitcoin will trade under $5,000, warns Dennis Gartman on: December 31, 2017, 09:43:33 AM
I think there's a slight chance that Bitcoin will touch USD 5,000,- again but I wouldn't bet on it. So far I'm not even sure we'll see sub USD 10,000,- any time soon, despite the current bearish tendencies.


"I'm very bearish on bitcoin, I think it's one of the silliest ideas I've heard in a long time," he said. "To be separated from the brilliance of the block chain, [makes even] tulips in [17th] century Holland look almost like a quiet, well-demeanored market,"

People praising the blockchain, while utterly dismissing cryptocurrencies, always make me wonder if they actually feel qualified to talk about the matter, or just trying to fake it well knowing that they are using empty hulls of words.


Gartman told CNBC that bitcoin will not only burn all those involved with it, but once it does there will be a rush into gold.

Interesting assumption, but I doubt that much of the fresh money that went into Bitcoin came from gold (yet). Thus I doubt that a Bitcoin crash will see people move from crypto to gold.


Bitcoin has tumbled 6 percent this week, the latest plunge due to South Korea's possible actions to crack down on the cryptocurrency.

Oh so that's what the recent declines are about! There I was thinking the market simply got ahead of itself Roll Eyes
2616  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Brainwallet history on: December 31, 2017, 09:08:33 AM
Is anyone still using brainwallets in earnest?
yes.

i don't trust stored data to stay secret.


Fair enough.

If you don't mind me asking: Do you (a) harden your brainwallet using a script, similar to OP, or do you (b) rely on a technique that you can apply off the top of your head, without relying on a computer? (eg. a long passphrase that is not part of a known body of literature, changing / shifting letters around in a way that can be easily remembered...)

Both make sense when trying to avoid storing data outside your head, but (a) seems more secure while (b) gives you full flexibility regardless of whether you have access to your hardening script.
2617  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Great News For Bitcoin! Lightening Network First Payment Was Successful! on: December 31, 2017, 03:01:48 AM
DNS does not have single point of failure and uses a tree structure of command but even if you took the top node down the system still works
and if needs be the structure could assign itself a new top level node using voting. Think more down the lines of Coordinators in relation to coins
to break nodes down into useful groups. Tree structure will scale better than what we have now, no brainier.

1) DNS is not secure, 2) easily blocked and 3) not used to transact millions of dollars worth of currency.


Coordinators will all so deal with trust rating so nodes that start playing stupid get blocked so good bye BS about 51% attack and hello GUID node
registration.

Coordinators require trust, which is something cryptocurrencies are striving to get rid of.


Quote
The consensus protocol itself is quite interesting and I'm sure that LN has borrowed some pages from it (assuming there is no prior work on which both protocols are based upon) but I still find it hard to trust a payment network that relies on a central corporate entity for both development and token issuance. I'm sure that Ripple has merits of its own but it's not quite what I expect from a cryptocurrency.

The currency and network has got to be separated and it will be in the end so we all have a public address and any currency gets sent to the address
so in effect the wallet has one address instead of ten pub/private keys which are still present but used after handshake and protocol is setup.

Separating the currency from the network leads to counterparty risk.


Quote
PoW is not about preventing spam transactions, it's about preventing double-spend attacks. Before PoW came along you couldn't rely on keeping a valid, reliable ledger state without a central entity acting as arbiter. Bitcoin's master stroke is making the network not only fault-tolerant against attackers, but actually using what would usually be an attack -- ie. brute force -- to protect the network from the very same class of attacks.

Spamming, double spend both prevented by PoW from what i read but PoW stupid and is being dumped by everyone even in the forks.

PoW has nothing to do with spam transactions. "PoW is stupid" is not a counter-argument. All meaningful BTC hardforks are relying on PoW so far.


Quote
I'm not sure I quite follow you here. You don't need to rely on DNS to connect to other nodes. You can't use DNS spoofing to fake transactions. Worst case you could probably prevent specific nodes from sending or receiving transactions, but that would require a lot of targeted resources without much impact on Bitcoin as a whole.

Virgin nodes at startup use DNS to get list of well know nodes and i can find you the address if you like but after that it uses cached IP-Address to find
a live node on the network and nodes relay between each other a list and the state of other nodes. I am talking new node start up.

Everyone can set up nodes using IP addresses instead of domain names. The application of DNS is irrelevant to this discussion.


Quote
Assuming you haven't already, you should really look into how LN works. You might be surprised that it's not quite the plaster you expect it to be.

I did and you did not deal with what Alice sends to bob and you are forced to accept Coordinators (Hubs/Gateways) in LN anyway so why not
wrap it up by breaking the 200gb block-chain down into more a tree structure and then it will scale better and you don't need IOU's or fake tokens.

No such things as coordinators / hubs / gateways in the LN network topology. Alice is a LN node. Bob is a LN node. Everyone en route between Alice and Bob is a node.

Once again, no IOUs. No fake tokens. All very real, time based transactions.

I know too little about blockchain sharding to argue either for or against it, I guess I'll watch Ethereum to see how this works out. Not sure if there ever has been any discourse of applying sharding to the Bitcoin blockchain. It seems to come with its own set of problems however.


Block-Chain is a liked list of headers but groups of nodes organised by Coordinators can deal with sections to provide redundancy within the section so in effect the LN patch up (or rewrite in disguise) is at the wrong level and as a transaction hits one set of node then a request will be sent to another set of nodes but after that the reply will be cached.

Assuming blockchain sharding relies on coordinators, we have a weak point and needless complexity right there. I do assume though that there are more effective approaches than that.

LN is neither a rewrite nor a patch btw, it's simply an additional protocol layer. Much like OMNI and XCP before it. And like HTTP on top of TCP/IP before even that.

I'm not sure what you mean by "the reply will be cached". If this still refers to LN, a channel state is maintained, but kept up to date by enforcing state updates by using presigned timelocked transactions.


Here I am talking about having to trace back down the chain to the origin of each coin part back to when it was mined

If this still refers to LN, coins can still be traced back to their origin, even when using LN.


Break the current 200gb Block-chain down to say 16 X 16 sections and each section has a group of nodes then you will start getting some speed but if i am honest
it's patching something instead of having a white sheet of paper to work from and i think that's whats needed and i will add this concept of public ledger we all
love and trust does allow anyone to clone it and produce a forks so that needs a long term solution

You're welcome to fork then Smiley Or contribute to one of the alts that are eying blockchain sharding right now (assuming ETH is not the only one).


Maybe wallets need voting rights so we can appoint people as trustees and then go at it from that angle because all S-M has done is left a mess that won't scale, wastes
energy and started CPU wars plus allows forks and clones.

Read up on sybil attacks on why this is a bad idea. Also the whole point of cryptocurrencies is to go trustless. Trying to create a trustee network comes with problems of its own. It's barely working with Root and Intermediary CAs. It becomes even less reliable with incentives to defect, such as the case with digital cash.
2618  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Great News For Bitcoin! Lightening Network First Payment Was Successful! on: December 30, 2017, 11:39:09 PM
I like the concept of centralization even less than you in the way it's being presented with banksters calling the shots but we can have
a decentralized system of coordinators without having to bend over to know one. See Ripple and how trust is established

Even a decentralized system is only as strong as its weakest link if it has a single point of failure. See Ripple and how tokens are issued.

The consensus protocol itself is quite interesting and I'm sure that LN has borrowed some pages from it (assuming there is no prior work on which both protocols are based upon) but I still find it hard to trust a payment network that relies on a central corporate entity for both development and token issuance. I'm sure that Ripple has merits of its own but it's not quite what I expect from a cryptocurrency.


Quote
What Bitcoin solved by applying PoW to the double-spend problem is something wholly different. It seems wasteful, it looks weird, but it's the only meaningful and secure solution so far that allows transactions without relying on a central entity.

Wow, hold on a second because we never needed PoW in the past and tight loops are to be avoided and spamming is avoided
by transactions fees anyway and what about the waste of energy so it now costs 90KWH of electric to process 250 bytes of data.
Reeving engine with car out of gear is crazy

PoW is not about preventing spam transactions, it's about preventing double-spend attacks. Before PoW came along you couldn't rely on keeping a valid, reliable ledger state without a central entity acting as arbiter. Bitcoin's master stroke is making the network not only fault-tolerant against attackers, but actually using what would usually be an attack -- ie. brute force -- to protect the network from the very same class of attacks.

Like everything this approach comes with a trade-off, which in this case is secure decentralization -- on every aspect -- at the cost of performance. At least to me the electricity cost involved seems like a step upward from the waste of human resources that is banking, but that's up for debate of course. One could argue whether the problem of central entities controlling finance is actually a problem worth solving, but assuming it is, PoW is unfortunately our best bet so far. There are other PoX approaches of course, but their viability is a different discussion.


Quote
One can argue about whether decentralized currencies are worth it, but arguing that centralization is what would help cryptocurrencies scale is approaching the problem from the wrong angle.
See above comment but let me add to this because virgin nodes starting up uses DNS to get a list of well known nodes anyway
but you will also note that DNS serves cannot steel coins (Maybe they could thinking about it again) so the white-paper broke
it's number one rule anyway and is government blocked domain names on one server then others would take over like OpenDNS

I'm not sure I quite follow you here. You don't need to rely on DNS to connect to other nodes. You can't use DNS spoofing to fake transactions. Worst case you could probably prevent specific nodes from sending or receiving transactions, but that would require a lot of targeted resources without much impact on Bitcoin as a whole.


Assuming you haven't already, you should really look into how LN works. You might be surprised that it's not quite the plaster you expect it to be.

Here's a good starting point:

https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/understanding-the-lightning-network-part-building-a-bidirectional-payment-channel-1464710791/
2619  Economy / Speculation / Re: Can bitcoin reach 40k at the end of 2018? on: December 30, 2017, 10:55:19 PM
Bitcoin could be at $40,000 at the end of 2018. It easily could," Michael Novogratz says on CNBC's "Fast Money
Ethereum, which I think just touched $500 or is getting close, could be triple where it is as well," adds Novogratz, formerly a macro hedge fund manager at Fortress Investment Group.

Had you told me that Bitcoin would reach close to USD 20,000,- by the end of 2017 I wouldn't have believed you. Now, even with the recent decline in price, reaching USD 40,000,- by the end of 2018 seems to be well within reach to me. Apart from the obvious fundamental question whether we'll see a successful LN deployment in 2018, a lot will likely hinge on the next few weeks of market action. I personally am fairly confident that USD 10,000,- will hold. If it doesn't, the downward trend is likely to continue and will probably be tough to reverse.


[...]

Instead, we may see BTC back to sub $10k level after recent news regarding ani-anonymity trend.
South Korea announced it will battle anonymity of bitcoin traders and many wallet owners have been preparing themselves to sell their coins.

The anti-anonymity trend has been a reality of western exchanges for years now. I doubt it will have much of a market impact, especially since most of the new investors -- based on anecdotal observations -- don't care much about the privacy aspect of cryptocurrencies at all.
2620  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: What happens when all bitcoin is mined? on: December 30, 2017, 10:35:52 PM
Correct me if I dont fully understand the concept of bitcoin. If miners currently work for new bitcoin, then once all bitcoin has been mined, I assume that the only incentive for them to continue running is to collect transaction fees. In order to offset the cost of their rig and electricity, wouldnt their fees need to increase in order for them to make it worth their effort?  Isnt that bad for anyone who wants to use bitcoin as currency instead of investment?

By then Bitcoin will be either dead, or worth enough to pay for electricity and hardware even with minuscule transaction fees.

The worst case that could happen is that miners drop off the network until mining BTC becomes profitable again, making the BTC network consume less electricity.

Either way miners have decades to adjust themselves to these futures changes. In this regard the Bitcoin protocol is more reliable than legal, social and economical circumstances that often give traditional businesses only months or years to adjust (or die).
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