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2661  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Massive GOP Voting Fraud Discovered: Ron Paul Likely Won Many Elections on: March 13, 2012, 07:31:47 AM
I'm not familiar with this story, however, I am totally against any Electronic Voting systems; people should outright refuse to use this "scam machines"; I am so surprised (well i should not be) that ppl are quite and do not see the inherent risks and outright thievery of elections that these machines allow.

Good old paper systems; nothing can beat them, especially if you have candidate representatives at each polling station during the vote counting stage;
Quite the opposite, with electronic systems it's not particularly difficult to make fraud almost mathematically impossible. That the electronic systems in actual use don't do that speaks volumes about the priorities of the people who deploy them.

It is possible to devise electronic voting systems that:

1) Make it possible for a person to prove that a vote wasn't counted if a vote was not counted.

2) Make it all but impossible to determine how any particular person voted.

3) Make it all but impossible to coerce a person to vote a particular way.

4) Make it all but impossible for any votes to be altered after they are cast.

5) Make it all but impossible for unauthorized votes to be slipped into the system.
2662  Other / Off-topic / Re: 1 terabit processor coming soon on: March 13, 2012, 03:19:16 AM
Doesn't every optical semiconductor have holes for the light to pass through?
2663  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Technical Support / Re: Ripped off? on: March 13, 2012, 02:33:55 AM
What seems suspicious to you exactly? It's an online wallet, so they commingle your finds with other people's funds, right? You asked them to send 20 coins to you, and they did. What do you care what else they do?

In this case, it's just change. They had 89.1 coins that they paid you out of, so they had 69.1 left over that they send to another account they control. But even if it wasn't change, why would it matter to you what else they do?
2664  Economy / Service Announcements / Re: {ANNOUNCEMENT} WBX Exchange Frozen on: March 12, 2012, 01:16:41 AM
You may want to consider offering, though only as an option, to let people withdraw their fiat currency balances in Bitcoins. You can use the rate from another exchange or you can fix the week's average rate. This is probably easier for you to do than mailing people checks, especially from closed accounts. And at least offering it will reassure people that they'll be getting their money back.
2665  Other / CPU/GPU Bitcoin mining hardware / Re: RaspberryPi raw hashing speed for SHA1/256/512. on: March 12, 2012, 01:04:04 AM
In terms of mining, I cant see the value in actually using it to mine - or how long the ARM processor would even last under 24/7 mining conditions but it would be a neat host for a set of BitFORCE singles Smiley Smiley Smiley
It should last many years, even running at full load constantly. Pretty much all modern solid-state computer parts are designed to run at full load for years and should not suffer reduced lifespan so long as power and cooling is not sub-standard. It might throttle if it gets too hot though. That will affect its short-term performance but should not significantly affect its life.

If this is not the case of the RaspberryPi, it would only be due to almost inexcusable incompetence.

What if one uses the Raspberry Pi to connect a USB hub to it and use a dozen FPGA boards for hashing? Could it be done? Or will the unit crap up from so many boards?
The only issue I can think of would be whether the RPi can supply enough power on its USB port. Using a powered hub should solve that problem. You could also use any cheap SoHo router (with a USB port, of course) that can run Tomato USB or DD-WRT.
2666  Economy / Economics / Re: The early-adoptor unfairness on: March 11, 2012, 03:22:38 AM
If an "early adopter" bought or mined (on a cpu) coins for a few cents - and some for much less ( "10,000 bitcoin pizza")- then they have made an enormous amount of money even at today's prices, and much much more if they sold in the bubble, So what is called the unfair advantage is still there in some peoples mind.
Except it's something in the past that nobody can change and has nothing to do with Bitcoin going into the future. You can buy at today's prices and early adopters can sell at today's prices. So any future changes in Bitcoin prices are equally available to early adopters and today's adopters.
2667  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Overloading Bitcoin on purpose, possible flaw? on: March 10, 2012, 01:57:46 PM
For the first one, I may be off but when you download the Bitcoin app you are also downloading all transactions that have taken place right? (I may be way off there). But if someone wanted to attack, they would just create millions of dummy transactions back and forth between two addresses so that the size of the download would get so huge that nobody would be able to load up the client because of the hard drive space needed. Again, I may be way off on how that works but it seems that hard drive space could potentially be an issue if someone went about it right.
How would these transactions get in the block chain exactly?

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As for the BTC addresses, yes I know that there are billions (trillions?) of addresses, but could someone not set up thousands of bots to just keep creating addresses at a speed where they own all BTC addresses after a few years? What is preventing this from happening?
Creating a bitcoin address has no effect on anyone else whatsoever. Creating an address is purely something you do locally. So if they did this, nobody would ever even know.

Now, in order to take your Bitcoins, they'd have to find a private key whose corresponding public key has the same 160-bit hash as your key. The size of the hash was specifically chosen to be way too large to make this possible. The consensus right now is that a 104-bit hash would be safe from such an attack, even against an attack funded by all the resources the human race could muster, until around 2050. A 160-bit hash is 72,000,000,000,000,000 times harder.
2668  Economy / Economics / Re: Deflation and Bitcoin, the last word on this forum on: March 10, 2012, 09:19:30 AM
I'll repeat it, because I like to say it at least once every few months: Long-term, predictable currency-driven deflation is essentially impossible.

If I give you 10 Bitcoins today, you can hold onto them and have 10 Bitcoins next year. You also have the option of doing anything else with those 10 Bitcoins during that year if you wish. So 10 Bitcoins today must be worth at least as much as 10 Bitcoins next year -- because it's that and then some.

Long-term, predictable deflation says that 10 Bitcoins next year can be reliably and predictably more valuable than 10 Bitcoins now. That would require the option to use the Bitcoins early to have less than no value at all, which is impossible.

As for deflation's effect on loans, permit me to quote my favorite expert on economics arguing that loans and borrowing are not affected by currency-driven inflation or deflation:

The benefit to the borrower is from being able to consume earlier than he could otherwise. This value is currency-neutral and it is this surplus that is split between the lender and the borrower. There are two fallacies that lead people to the opposite conclusion:

1) Thinking that a deflationary currency is extra valuable to hold and forgetting that this means it has greater spending value too because the person you spend it with gets to hold it if they want. The value of the deflation comes from the lender and is carried through the transaction to the end.

2) Forgetting that the cost of inflation comes from the expansion of the money supply. This expansion acts as a tax on all wealth since the newly-printed money can claim any wealth in the economy. The cost of the inflation acts as a claim against the lender's wealth and is also carried through the transaction to the end.
2669  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: A fallacy in the "need current conversion rates" pricing arguments? on: March 10, 2012, 06:07:08 AM
If I picked up a bunch of inventory back when my bitcoins were worth USD $30 each, I ought to be able to undercut other dealers of that type of inventory right now by quite a bit.
Sure, but only because you made a profit on the purchase that you are now giving away for no logical reason. You can't expect to make it up by selling above market some of the time because nobody will buy from you when you are above market. So when you have gains due to good luck, you'll give them away. When you have losses due to bad luck, you'll be stuck with them. And consumers will shun you because your pricing won't be reliable.
2670  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: Press Release - TradeHill, Inc. Files Suit Against Dwolla, Inc. on: March 09, 2012, 03:52:04 AM
When you pay your credit card's interest rate (APY) you pay it to the credit card company, not the merchant.
Right, which you start paying in 30 days or so.

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That is because the credit card company is extending credit to you, and not the merchant.
Sure, at that point. But that's the non-chargeback case. That's not what happens if you reverse the charge.

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The merchant is agreeing to provide you with certain goods or services in exchange of a lump sum payment, in this case disbursed by the credit card company to the merchant on your behalf, just like a bank disburses a sum lump payment to the seller of a house at the closing on your behalf. There is NO credit extended by the merchant, unless you are paying the merchant with a credit card issued by the merchant (i.e. target credit card, etc).
No, one is not "just like" the other. When you buy a house, the seller has *no* agreement with the mortgage company. The mortgage company just pays them. When you buy something with a credit card, there is a contractual arrangement between the merchant and the credit card issuer. These two situations are simply not comparable at all.

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With your logic, the seller of a house will be providing credit "in part" to the buyer, along with the bank when a mortgage is closed. Months later, if the buyer of the house quits paying, the bank will know on the sellers door and ask for the money back.
I don't understand what you mean by "with my logic". These are two different factual situations. With a home mortgage, the mortgage company only pays the seller. With a credit card, the merchant has a contract with the bank that sets out a different relationship. This is a factual difference, it's not something you can logic out. You have to read the contracts to understand the relationship. (The contracts are not really freely negotiated though. The credit card issuer tells the merchant to take it or leave it, and Federal law sets out many of the requirements.)

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A "credit card" is an instrument by which the issuing institution extends credit to the customer, and for which collects interests payments, service fees, etc. The whole point for the merchant (in theory) is to delegate the issuing of credit and mitigate risk to a third party.
To mitigate long-term risk, but not short-term risk. And to avoid having to do credit inquiries and avoid having to meet other requirements. Nevertheless, the bank's agreement with the merchant permits them to refuse to collect from the consumer on behalf of the merchant. A merchant cannot use a credit card issuer to protect themselves from the risks associated with their own non-performance and the consumer need not sue the merchant if they have not yet made payment. That's what the contracts between the merchant and the credit card issuer say.

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This really have nothing to do to whom the bank is extending credit to, since in both cases the bank is extending credit to the buyer, not the merchant (or seller).
No, the bank is extending credit to the merchant in the case of a credit card. Why do you think credit card companies bother to investigate merchants or closing down merchant accounts for fraud? The credit card company is collecting the principle on behalf of the merchant and if you do not owe the merchant the principle, you do not owe it to the credit card company. That is the way credit cards work, at least in the United States.

By the way, in the vast majority of cases, this really does benefit the merchants. Very few people would buy a camera from an online store if they had to investigate the camera and the store the way you have to investigate a real estate purchase. And, of course, the credit card issuers don't make much money if consumers are afraid to use their credit cards.
2671  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: Press Release - TradeHill, Inc. Files Suit Against Dwolla, Inc. on: March 09, 2012, 01:41:31 AM
It is an extension of credit on the customer, not the merchant.
Yes, but it is an extension of credit (to some extent) *by* the merchant.

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If the customer does something dumb with the line of credit, it should be their responsibility, not the merchant's.
It is. And one of the things a customer might do when someone who extended them credit fails to comply with the terms of the agreement is not pay them.

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At most, it should be a problem shared by the customer and the bank that extended the credit.
The bank didn't extend the credit until and unless the service is completed and accepted by the customer. Until then, the merchant has extended the credit.

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This is akin to a mortgage in a house: if you bought a 400K 1 bdr appartment in LA before the bubble bursted, you and the bank are stuck with the debt, and you pay the price, not the seller of the property.
Right, that's because mortgages are not like credit cards. In the case of a mortgage, the bank is extending credit directly to the mortgagee.

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While I do understand there should be some merchantability protection for the consumer, it seems to me that the merchant ALWAYS ends up paying for the broken dishes, not the banks, and almost never the consumer. This is by the way, after the merchant has already been pounded by some irrational "processing fee" by the credit card companies.
The merchant does have to pay a chargeback fee. But they are still absolutely free to collect directly from the consumer. If the chargeback was legitimate, the merchant *should* be out the money. If it's illegitimate, the consumer still owes them the money and they can still demand payment or sue the customer. That's the risk when you extend credit -- the recipient may not pay you and you might have to sue them.

At least in the United States, credit card chargebacks are nothing like ACH chargebacks. It's simply the bank electing not to collect the debt on behalf of the merchant because they are not convinced it's legitimate.
2672  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: Press Release - TradeHill, Inc. Files Suit Against Dwolla, Inc. on: March 08, 2012, 11:13:24 PM
Chargebacks don't protect the consumer, it protects the morons and the crooks.
If you mean ACH chargebacks, 100% agree. If you mean credit card chargebacks, 100% disagree. (The big difference is that an ACH transfer is an actual payment. A credit card is an extension of credit.)
2673  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: Dwolla's Response to TradeHill | Lies and Defamation? on: March 07, 2012, 02:09:27 PM
From what I can read about this story, Dwolla has joined the pack they claimed they would "disrupt": banksters
If you can't beat 'em, join 'em.
2674  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Github Vulnerabilities and Bitcoin on: March 07, 2012, 09:13:39 AM
To be verified you need to know that the key really belongs to GAVIN ANDRESEN and therefore you must find a way to obtain the key not via the github site, or the bitcoin.org site in a manner that is trusted. i.e Gavin's keyID (the bit highlighed in bold above - using RSA key ID 1FC730C1 ) must be authenticated by him in some form that is trusted (#bitcoin-otc, PM on this site, phone conversation, other users who have WOT verified the key etc.)
Authenticating the key ID is not sufficient. Creating your own key with the same ID as a given key is much easier than mining a Bitcoin block. You either need to obtain the key from a trusted source, validate the key with cross-signatures with keys you've validated from trusted sources, or validate at least 24 hex digits from the key fingerprint.
2675  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Why I am proud to be a solipsist. on: March 07, 2012, 05:48:16 AM
Is there a solipsist here, or is it just me?
2676  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoinica lost 43,554 BTC from Linode compromise, suspicious TXIDs publicized on: March 07, 2012, 05:44:23 AM
Here is my question. Why was it ever a good idea to be running a site like this where someone else has access to your machine? These types of operations should be run from locked up racks.
This is what I first thought when I heard about the Linode hack. It stunned me that people would run these kinds of things from low-end virtual servers. But it just happened that I always worked for companies that were ISPs, had ISP businesses, or had server infrastructure that pre-dated easy virtualization. I was quite surprised to find that use of virtual servers for business-critical infrastructure and highly-sensitive information is now quite common. I'm still not sure how I feel about it.
2677  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: Press Release - TradeHill, Inc. Files Suit Against Dwolla, Inc. on: March 07, 2012, 05:38:45 AM
Right, and when that rain water causes a letter you were writing to your aunt in Georgia to be destroyed telling her not to marry Mr. Butler because he is a gold digger and the wedding goes on as planned, later ending in a divorce that costs your aunt half of her estate, should the rock thrower pay for what the aunt lost in the other contract as well?
Right. There's a continuum from damages that certainly should be the responsibility of the wrongdoer to damages that are too indirect. It comes down to whether this is a case akin to lost profits (which would be covered) or acts of a third party (which wouldn't unless they're forseeable, which these aren't).

"For the breach of an obligation arising from contract, the measure of damages, except where otherwise expressly provided by this Code, is the amount which will compensate the party aggrieved for all the detriment proximately caused thereby, or which, in the ordinary course of things, would be likely to result therefrom."

Honestly, I don't know which side of the line this case falls on.
2678  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: Dwolla's Response to TradeHill | Lies and Defamation? on: March 07, 2012, 05:19:29 AM
Because if TH suffered $100k in losses and MtGox did 7x the volume, well, do the math... so either MtGox worked something out with Dwolla that TH didn't have the muscle to work out, or they ate it and they aren't revealing how much they lost because on the whole Dwolla is still a profitable and necessary source of inbound currency.
Or the fraud was largely the result of one coordinated group and they preferred TradeHill for some reason. Perhaps they just tried TradeHill first, it worked, and they had no reason to try anything else. Perhaps TradeHill processed things faster. Or perhaps Mt. Gox had faster/better cash outs, so they wanted their money in TradeHill so they could buy Bitcoins to cash out at Mt. Gox.

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#2 According to the article, Tradehill sold off Bitcoin.com. For $1M. Which is part of what they're suing Dwolla for. What???
Where are you seeing this? I was under the impression they bought bitcoin.com (and a few other domains) for $1 million.
2679  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: Press Release - TradeHill, Inc. Files Suit Against Dwolla, Inc. on: March 07, 2012, 05:14:25 AM
I understand arming yourself with as many complaints as possible but don't think there is any legal reason why they would be held responsible for a private agreement related to bitcoin.com.
The damages are a consequence of their fraud. If someone intentionally and wrongfully throws a rock through your window when you're not home, and as a result, the rain damages your painting, shouldn't they also be responsible for the damage to the painting? Replacing the window doesn't make you whole.
2680  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: Dwolla's Response to TradeHill | Nothing but Lies and Defamation on: March 07, 2012, 04:46:50 AM
the amount for damages requested in the suit don't correlate with the losses that can be attributed to dwolla though.  dwolla can change their policy at any time.  maybe dwolla should be on the hook for the reversals and the funds they still have held (total under $100k) but blowing that total into a two million lawsuit reeks.
The legal system can't work that way. Dwolla should have eaten those losses. If the lawsuit just makes Dwolla pay the amounts they should have paid anyway, then all the harm they caused is unaddressed. There is no reason Dwolla should not be responsible for the consequential damages their fraud caused. And given that was seems to be an intentional and considered fraud, there should be punitive damages as well.

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it is like if a retail business launches to sell this widget that it can buy at a discount from a certain supplier and then that supplier stops carrying that widget.  it isn't the supplier that is responsible if the retailer then incurs losses and eventually goes out of business as the result.
No, that's true. But if a thief steals the money they would have used to buy the widget and they lose profits as a result, the thief should be liable for those losses as well.

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plus, we saw what happened at paxum.  this gives banks and competitors even more reason to keep their distance from bitcoin.  this isn't france.  we are not guaranteed a bank account.  if a bank suspects a customer will be a risk for litigation, they'll opt for not establishing or severing any banking relationship with that customer.
Yes, and had Dwolla simply severed its relationship with TradeHill, the situation would have been completely different. They certainly had every right to do that. Sadly, that's not the choice Dwolla made. But they have to live with the consequences of the choice they did make.
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