i hate comparing gold/paypal to bitcoin.. but its what average joe understands.

so: walkthrough
1) gold is not insured by a government should you lose it, you cant simply ask your bank for a new lump of gold in the manner you ask for a new debit card. you need to learn how to secure and look after gold yourself.

telling people the combination to your safe is risky, ptting your gold into a strangers safe is even more riskier, gold is not like FIAT at all.

2) be aware that gold prices change alot more then FIAT prices

3) replace the word 'gold' with 'bitcoin' and you are getting the picture.

4) metal is heavy and takes effort to move between people, having to use postal services to transport it. bitcoin is not metal. its computer code. which can travel the world in seconds, like email. so imagine where posting a letter became email, where instead of packaging it up into a box to send on a truck, a program on your computer sends the valuable message instead.

5) if you have ever used paypal you have a username and password to get to play around with your wealth, the username is your identity. and the password is your proof that the identity belongs to you. where you are safe to tell people your username so they can send you funds. but never ever tell anyone your password. Well bitcoin is similar. the public key is your username. you can have millions of them if you want and you dont even need to register or fill in lots of forms to get the keys. the private key, that is your password. DONT TELL ANYONE

6) the private key is the most important thing of all. the private is not only the proof of access but the final public key is created via the private key. you can make, as i said before many private keys and they all generate a public key that only responds to that private key

7) if talking about public and private has started to lose your understanding then replace public with username and private with password. to get you back on track.

if you want to go into more detail on how the transactions work, read-on. or use this point as a chance to make yourself a coffee

9) imagine a cashiers cheque. it has a payee line, an amount and a bunch of numbers along the bottom to represent who it is from. when cashing a cheque. a clearing house service will check the FROM information to ensure funds are available. the clearing house will take a few days changing the balance of where the funds came from. and then crediting you with that amount. the banks instead of just reading the ledger of every cheque ever processed to see who sent what to who. to get a proper balance of who owns what at any point in time. they have a separate "balance" database that corresponds to the ledger of.. 'cheque stubs'.
with bitcoin its similar at the start it needs to know where the funds came from and that the person is authorized to send them, the amount being sent, and the recipients details. BUT instead of having a easy to use "account balance" database that can be manipulated (printing money) the proof of value held is done purely by adding up and subtracting the ledger/cheque stubs to get the total.

10) most of you new people dont need to know all the intricate details of how cheques work. same for bitcoin. as long as you know that it does work and is safe. well bitcoin is ALOT safer then cheque clearing and bank account balances in this respect.

11) the even better part is that there is not one single bank/clearing house that has all the copies of the ledger/cheque stubs. with bitcoin anyone has the entire ledger/cheque stub listings and anyone can, with the right program/website be able to check the total value currently held by any public address.

12) this stops people/banks from tampering with it, because if the millions of people who have a copy, notice a single ledger/cheque stub listing that has been altered or does not show the value previously existing in that persons previous ledger/stub. it would be ignored.

its good to know that governments are seeking advice.. but when these experts shy away from actually giving info, it just makes me want to slap people.

if i was asked to speak to a government group about bitcoin. knowing they would ask "what would bitcoin like".

i would not reply in terms of "clarification of what would government want" "clarification of what will government do"

after all the government is suppose to be there to protect all of us. so we should be telling government how we want things to be run.
i would never ask a question "will government ban bitcoin" i would however tell government that there is no reason to ban bitcoin.

as for the IRS verdict in USA.. because its property. then exchanges are not swapping currency, but allowing people to "bid" on property. making them more of an auction house.

which leads on that only the auction house that receives FIAT, as an agent on behalf of many people is monitored. but the goods sold do not need to be tracked, nor the individual people using such action house agents.

one of the government people said 'why should they regulate bitcoin, because they dont regulate gold'. which is true, they only regulate gold sellers that deal in FIAT on BEHALF of other people (brokers/agents). they do not regulate the people that sell it privately or that hold gold.

sometimes i wonder where they get some of these 'bitcoin experts'.. because if your going to go to a government meeting. you need to be a bitcoin and politics expert, to ensure the best result is given.

things i would have said, had i been there.
1) for governments to make a formal announcement that banks should not treat their customers as criminals simply because of bitcoin. to not decline accounts purely due to bitcoin, but only freeze accounts on the bases of definitive evidence that a terror/laundering event has or is occurring.
2) to be 21st century enough that a financial agency (business holding funds on behalf of customers) should be insured, and where the licence fee is low enough to be obtained, but reasonable enough to cover all government admin costs that may occur each year
EG making the licence under a couple thousand. but the insurance being the big costs. which if businesses want to store other peoples wealth then they need collateral to prove they can be trusted.

well people are resurrecting dead threads, and making comments. so adding comments to dead threads on a topic, is better then starting new threads and having the same info repeated on 100's of threads.

so i find it more appropriate to not have started a new thread purely because this one started in 2010

what software was he using. if you can get his family to allow you to use his computer. all may be revealed.

for instance http://armoryguide.com/restoring-test-wallet/

i am not saying it is armory. im just saying having access to his computer will help you solve the issue, as you can limit it to the software he uses.

as for offering a bounty. i find that to be very steep, alot of people give advice for free. $2000 is alot just for advice. very tempting to many people, but at the same time a needless expense.

+1

just like the dollar or the pound doesnt need advertising. but services ontop of FIAT would advertise as they are a business / service a layer above FIAT. EG western union, visa, mastercard.

this is where businesses a layer above bitcoin, such as: bitpay, bitstamp, localbitcoins, etc would pay to get their business advertised and entice people into the bitcoin ecosphere

the OP's opinion is valid. but there could be a different reason.

imagine you found out that a plot of land could potentially hold alot of gold. and the land is up for auction. one thing you would do is calculate its true potential and then look at the initial costs to get involved.

then what you would do is notice if other potential parties are showing interest.. and ofcourse tell them that the land may contain landmines, was a hazardous chemical disposal site. has no permissions for digging or construction.. you would find any excuse you can to persuade others to not bid for that land to avoid the competition of a bidding war, costing you more to get that land.

same goes for bitcoin. instead of him buying $10k of btc a day to try keeping a stable price of sub $600, with little to no competition. if he told everyone it was a great investment. major finance teams would be buying it up. and he would then have to pay $1200, $2k, $3k per bitcoin, costing him dearly.

the only time you see rich people tell the general public that its a good time to buy or there are positives to buy.. is the time these rich people are ready to sell.

well i hope panic sellers lose out so many times by panicking everyday, that their wealth becomes less then 1BTC each. then future panics by these naive people wont put a dent in the price as much. so i am glad they are panicking and losing bitcoins. as it dilutes the "power" they have to move markets in the future.

the medical "bracelet" system is already adopting such an idea

china is not a factor
ask yourself. do you have a bank account in china?
do you live in china?

if the answer to both is no, then look at the long term picture, do not make decisions on something that does not physically affect you, because it wont affect you.
by making a decision to sell at a loss based on something that doesnt affect you, is the only time it will affect you. in May, June. the china hype will be over... but your still left with a loss

i personally have not acted on any information based on china. i still have my wealth because i did not panic.
china did not cause the price drop on bitstamp/btc-e... europeans and americans caused the price drop, based on their emotions.

a prime example of another event is that smart people knew in december that mtgox shut its doors. they were quick enough to realise mtgox does not affect bitstamp or btc-e directly. so they did not sheep follow the price down to $100. (yes some dumb people did sell at a loss to cause a price drop of smaller preportions, but thats their loss)

just because one exchange dumps, there is no real reason to dump too, unless you are personally arbitraging them both and can see profit in doing so.. just remember the bigger picture.. the panic hype soon dies off, so why lose because of something that only lasts a couple months at most.

never sell at a loss..

professionalism..
i do not mean corporatization or government controlled. i just mean that services dealing with other peoples wealth need to be managed by people who are not bums, social rejects, or unemployed basement dwellers. all of which are usually just in it to make themselves millionaires and will easily be tempted to cheat, steal or extort to do so.

transmission of bitcoins does not need third parties which is great. but when third party services are needed. there needs to be some transparency and trust.

EG exchanges that do not hide behind go-daddys domain privacy protections, etc.
exchanges where the owner has had financial/insurance/banking experience
exchanges that have equal collateral locked away to make it in their best interest to be ethical

and a mind set for all users. if you wont allow a distant cousin to use your debit card and pin number for all your fiat wealth, why suddenly trust a stranger that you have never met, who hides behind privacy settings.

bitcoin is the true store of wealth. ripple is just the means to swap peoples gateway services value without needing to mess around arbitraging between bank accounts

most posts do not prefer to HOLD gold. most posts are smart to receive 1 oz of gold to instantly sell for more BTC then initially offered.

why would anyone consider making bitcoin legal tender as being a good thing??!

legal tender means government controlled, managed, and empowered currency.. bitcoin will and should never be a government currency.

governments can only tax people on the FIAT people receive because FIAT is the governments copyrighted product.
the amount of tax to be taken is based on fiat prices of when the property first became owned by you. calculated against the fiat received at the sell.

what happens inbetween is irrelevant and out of governments jurisdiction.

if you think its a good idea to hand control of bitcoin to government.. atleast let them have grumpycoin instead (randomly picked useless altcoin).

bitcoins are more rare then gold

estimates are that there are only 171k tonnes of gold (5,557,500,000 ounces) about enough for every adult (ignoring 2bill kids and geriatrics) in the world to own 1 ounce

bitcoin if distributed evenly to the 5billion adults in the world. means that each adult would get only 0.0042btc

so imagine if 5billion families desired to store their $20k lifetime savings in something rare, either gold or bitcoin

1 ounce would be then be worth $20k, where as bitcoin ($20k for 0.0042) works out as 1bitcoin = $4,760,000

(how many of the 5 billion adults (ignoring 2bill kids and geriatrics) would want a bitcoin or gold.. or how many would invest an average of $20k are all questions only the future can answer)

put simply i wouldn't want just one bitcoin today, instead id take an ounce of gold today, and within hours flip it for 3 bitcoin(todays market value). knowing in decades bitcoin will/could out perform gold on the rarity value scale. with a POTENTIAL for that 3bitcoin to net me near on POTENTIALLY $14m instead of just $20k gold

wow.. i see you havnt spoken to an accountant.

you pay tax when you get your FIAT for that coin.. you work out the gain/profit or loss by looking at the fiat value of the bitcoin when mined and the fiat you receive when selling.

imagine you mined 1 bitcoin and you paid tax on todays valuation of $450. the tax is paid. what about when the price moves tomorrow. do you pay tax again on a rise. and ask for a refund on a drop. NO no no

now then. when you mine a bitcoin you wait until you have sold the bitcoin for coldhard fiat in your bank, then you look at the price value at the time of the fiat sale and you calculate that against the initial price at the time of mining..

you dont have to keep a log of every $ movement whilst hoarding,  because the maths of adding and subtracting every movement would end up with the same total as just taking the numbers at the start and the end..

i seriously dont know why people are too lazy to speak to an accountant. but then think they have to do lots of work suddenly, when its not needed.

the mind boggles

wrong. and try not to quote or use media as yor source.. as they are proven to mislead..
instead fond the source
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=555188.0
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/amend-irs-notice-2014-2taxing-virtual-currencybitcoin-property-stifles-new-technologycreates/z7WtKZGY

here is a quote that made me laugh

... every transaction.... lol serious failings..misunderstandings and .. well just wrong..

you Don't pay tax:
when bitcoin prices change.
when you swap bitcoin for an altcoin.
swapped for other property.

you do pay tax when you receive FIAT.

EG miner gets 1btc when the price is $460(a). the price rises whilst hoarding coins to $500(b) he then trades it for an equal value of litecoins(c). he hoards the litecoins and the price of litecoins rises(d). he sells the litecoins for bitcoins(e). after a while he then buys a laptop using the bitcoins(f) and then sells the laptop for $1200 fiat(g).

no one would pay tax at each point (a through f) only at (g) would someone show they have received $1200 which was worth $460 months prior.
simple maths G minus A = gain

its the same as you getting a computer from your work and they let you keep it to sell.. you dont pay tax when they give you the laptop initially, you dont pay tax while using the laptop as it depreciates in value.. you only pay tax when you sell it.

imagine if people stupidly paid tax at point (b), where the price rose purely due to hoarding.
day one pay tax on $40 gain
day two request refund on a price crash
day three pay tax on a rise.
and so on.

i can give you other examples.. but instead, go speak to an accountant


+1 also to note the skateboard for bike would be considered a fair value swap. meaning no gain or loss.. but (if you were that anal about tax returns) if you sold the bike for $$$$$ later on, then you would show the original price you paid for skateboard and minus that number against the $$$$ you sold the bike.. not worrying about fair market value of the bike or skateboard when swapping in the middle. just the beginning and end numbers are important.

(please note i have excluded some loopholes and tax exemptions so dont knit pick the small stuff below certain thresholds)

its still money laundering.. but the vessel used is "to big to fail" so no one gets arrested, but as i said previously.. if paintings/gold or anything else was used. then the art auction house would be questioned/part of the laundering investigation aswell as the art taken away as evidence.

the guy that first promoted the petition and wrote it out. is not a tax expert and from reading what he wrote, he probably has never made a self assessment tax return in his life. there are flaws to his petition and congress would simply laugh at it, and put the petition in the round filing container.. known as a bin.

if there is to be a petition. then whomever wants to do it. should research the IRS wording, check  with an accountant and get someone with good understanding to write a proper petition..

the current petition seems to be just cries and whimpers about hypotheticals. and not intellectual facts. anyone that owns a business or has been self employed, doing their own tax returns can plainly she the lack of experience the petition writer has. i think that he is just trying to get 15 minutes of fame, where nothing gets changed..

things to remember

when a friend gives you $10, no one claims it on their tax return.
when a friend gives you a coffee or a sandwich, no one claims it on their tax return.

point being, dont sweat the small stuff.

as for purchasing large products. (over $600 threshold) then read the IRS details about how to log it. or go speak to an accountant. i have read many threads where people are going nuts worrying about logging the little things like buying a starbucks coffee, which i find very amusing whilst face palming them

oh and another point. you dont pay tax until the point you have FIAT in your hand. so dont think that if bitcoin rose from $450 to $470 in one day that you need to send a payment to IRS at every price movement, simply because your holding coin instead of spending..
point being... its not a gain or loss until its FIAT!!

well using a different email for this forum, compared to the email you use for exchanges is a good thing. then if you start getting random messages from the forum mail linked address. you know its a phishing scam, as your exchanges use a different (your original) email

so have exchanges that know you as Dsstech go to your main email. and all the junk mail and non exchange accounts (like here) go to a new email..