There are a large number of alt-coins that have done worse than BTC in the last year - probably, quite a few of them that was sufficiently in existence in the last year has done worse than bitcoin in the last year... it would be easier to count the ones that did NOT do worse than BTC in the last year than to count the ones that did do better than BTC.

That chart appears to be from last December 2013 or January 2014... there was some kind of glitch in the charts, and that was the first time that I had heard about Doge coin...

Yep.. sad but true... there are a lot of variations of such stories, and the downward BTC price manipulators can have this kind of negative scaring effect on regular people because the regular people have not been prepared for such an extended downtrend in the BTC market.... and they are still panicking on a regular basis in spite of decent flat and/or trending upward BTC price movements in the last couple  of days.  Regular people are scared to get into BTC and scared to stay in BTC.. even though this is likely a fairly decent time to enter a BTC position.

I agree with you to the extent that you are asserting that there may be some disruptive and transformative aspects of crypto-currencies that cause major changes in societal make-up. 

However, your dreams of getting rid of all taxes and government is pure pie in the sky.  In that regard, you need to be a little more realistic in your considerations of the multi-tude of services that are performed through tax revenues and to incorporate this into your vision of the future.  Surely, these services may NOT need to be carried out in the same way as they currently are carried out; however, to suggest that there need NOT be any community pooling of money or that these services will be accomplished voluntarily seems sheer lunacy to me.

Gets me every time to see NOT NotPork in such an endearing pose.   

What you say above, makes little to NO sense.  Of course they want to develop avenues for liquidity, including their ETF; however, that does NOT also mean that they want to dump.. (but they may want to diversify their investment), and the creation of avenues for BTC liquidity does cause BTC to become more valuable... good for the winklevi and good for bitcoin and good for other bitcoin investors (including those who want to use bitcoin as a storage of value).

You don't need to buy it, but it seems to be a much better description of what is going on than what you have made.... and are you also predicting prices to go in the sub-$200 territory in the near future?  I think that the odds are pretty decent that your prediction in that regard will NOT be realized.

Don't get me wrong, and it is likely that I agree with you on the point that you are making.  The mere fact that there may NOT be regulations to govern behavior or to stop BTC manipulation or to stop certain kinds of fraud, various government entities can become very entrenched with selective enforcement of non-existing laws and to favor various status quo institutions.  So for example, very rich bankers will be able to get away with robbing people blind with millions and even billions of dollars and NOT receive any punishment at all, while regular people may be harassed and thrown in jail over a claim of a $1k tax evasion... or a claim of an inappropriately filled out form or some other supposed lack of compliance of a made up rule... so yeah, status quo forces can use ambiguity to divide and conquer and terrorize people who they fear to be challenging status quo institutions and "our way of life, as we know it" - mom, god and apple pie.

I agree about that; however, there are various practices, such as fractional reserve banking, that exist in various financial circles that have become acceptable means upon which to transact - and sometimes there can exist some murkiness regarding whether any laws are being violated, especially in an industry (BTC space) that remains largely unregulated.

I think that I made a very similar point - when I mention an exception to if there is fraud going on. 

Accordingly, in regard to buying and/or selling with fake money/BTC while a large majority of the traders using the exchange believes that the transactions are with real money/BTC, then that is likely a different story than just employing the services of a trading bot to cause high volume price manipulation.   B/c there are several scenarios in which some large players may consider it in their interest to operate at a "loss" regarding their BTC trades in the short term in order to attempt manipulate BTC prices downward and to attempt to undermine public confidence in the viability and/or future prospects of BTC.

I think JoeVentura has a valid point regarding the fact that if the BTC price is falling, then more coins are being offered for sale than there are coins being bought - and that is why the price is falling.  On the other hand if there are more coins being bought than offered, then the price rises.

As you suggest, Arriemoller, in the end, that claim about dollar cost average selling may NOT be saying too much; however, I believe more importantly, is that JoeVentura got it wrong b/c dollar cost average selling would have been taking place as the price was rising... however, the price has been falling for nearly a year... so what we have NOW, or at least in the past 4 months or so, are continued attempts to force the price down by big cats and attempt to cause regular people to panic and to sell their coins.. and this dynamic is NOT about dollar cost average selling, like JoeVentura is so boldly and wrongly asserting.

"highly illegal?"         

What would be illegal?

A lot of the BTC world is unregulated no? 

unless you are talking about some kind of common law fraud, then that is a different story... but largely, at this time, insider trading rules do NOT apply to BTC does it?

Your various analyses seem to be a bit back-asswards to me - as if you are grasping at straws attempting to find various explanations for the price, while at the same time ignoring various obvious and more important facts.

Yes, surely people engage in dollar cost averaging, and maybe even such dollar cost averaging may emphasize buying on the way down and selling on the way up.  In this regard, a lot of the dollar cost average selling would have already taken place a long time ago.  Accordingly, that dollar cost average selling theory does NOT pan out in the real world.












mining is NOT very directly correlated to price.  Surely, there is some correlation; however, there is going to be the same number of bitcoin's produced whether the cost per bitcoin is $1 per BTC or $1,000 per BTC.  The price of bitcoins may cause an incentive for miners to decide whether to hold or to sell in anticipation, also, of what they expect to be the future price.  At the same time, some of these miners may be in positions in which they have to sell, yet miners tend to be amongst the most bullish in their long term predictions of bitcions, so at these current prices, they have inclinations to hold while planning to sell later.  So if miners are selling, they are likely NOT selling large stacks of their holdings.





Maybe bitcoin users are NOT sophisticated, but they are learning about bitcoin as we go, and some of them are wanting to increase their BTC holdings to sell and to buy back.   I would NOT necessarily attempt to lump bitcoin holders as being any kind of special creature because a larger culprit in the market is the fact that the BTC market cap is small and it can be manipulated by fairly small players who are willing to put their money on exchanges.  In that regard, it is much easier and faster and cheaper to move BTC onto exchanges than it is to move fiat onto such exchanges.  Good luck, if you believe BTC prices are going into the double digits any time soon.  I would be quite surprised if BTC prices go lower than the $250 to $275 range.....

Never say never in Bitcoinlandia, but seems pretty unlikely that BTC prices will fall that low, absent some fairly catastrophic news - b/c a lot of aspects of the BTC fundamentals remain strong, including adoption and liquidation venues.


I am sure that those business are sufficiently protected for BTC price fluctuations, and they are continuing to expand and to take some of their profits in dollars.  Coinbase, for example, has recently expanded into about a dozen European countries.  Surely, I do NOT know their financial details, but I would anticipate that they have a decent business model and they seem to be fairly profitable and fairly widely accepted player in the bitcoin services space.





Bitcoin prices is also NOT dependent on any one factor or any one player.  Yes, it would be good for bitcoin to obtain further exposure through Paypal, but any NON-occurrence of that one factor is NOT going to be detrimental to bitcoin prices.... there may be other factors or a combination of factors that cause negative pressures on bitcoin prices, though... including the fact that some big players continue to be o.k. with accepting low manipulated btc prices and are continuing to accumulate bitcoins behind the scenes.


So, more likely at some point in the next 1-12 months, we are going to experience incredible upward manipulation and momentum of BTC prices and with this upward price movement, many fiat holders on the sidelines will jump in to attempt to experience profits in the BTC space.

I believe we would NOT be anticipating a market sale of those 24k BTC, but instead an auction similar to the nearly 30k DPR/silk road BTC in May 2014  (wasn't it May).  Those 30k DPR coins seemed to have gotten decent demand and bidders, and there should be little doubt that another auction of 24k BTC would cause the attention of numerous bidders who will be willing to pay at or more than current BTC prices...

Surely we can speculate about the effects of such a future auction, but at this time, I do NOT perceive an auction of bulk coins (such as 24k BTC) as bearish, necessarily.

Wasn't the number floating around about 24,000 BTC?


Edit:  Woops:  Jorge beat me to it.  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=178336.msg9431467#msg9431467

Pissedoff:   I agree with some of your assessment, but NOT all of it.

Personally, I believe what is causing the price to go down is manipulation, and there are some that want to continue to push the prices of BTC down so that they can continue to accumulate and at some point (maybe 1 month from NOW or maybe 6 months or possibly longer), there will be attempts to manipulate in the opposite (upwards direction)... One large whale would be within his/her power to manipulate the price upwards into the $3k to $5k territory, b/c was the price starts to go upward, there will be other whales ready and willing to jump on board.

Really, bitpay and similar are good for bitcoin because they cause liquidation opportunities - which people need to have in order to have additional confidence in BTC when prices go to the next upward level.   Surely, if people are NOW using bitpay and similar to liquidate and they are NOT replacing their coins, then surely, you are correct that those services are merely being used to sell coins... but really, I doubt that those services of bitpay and similar are what really is causing downward price pressures... you can watch the market and see that the downward pressure comes from the purposeful and strategic attempts to dump large quantities of coins on exchanges, and while that conduct remains profitable, that exchange dumping conduct is going to continue.

Additionally, some of these dumpers are accumulating coins on the sly.. so that they will have plenty of coins when the time comes for the upward momentum.

There are a lot of examples, and yes, you are correct that examples go back to times in which bitcoins were NOT worth very much - however, many of us must admit that there has been increased awareness and security measures for securing bitcoins - nonetheless, my main point(s) seems to be that incentives to employ various scandals goes up as the value of BTC goes up - yet, even if the value is low, there still could be opportunity to engage in scandals.

Thanks for the puzzle... NOT that I have anything better to do with my time, at the moment.

Well, if you are being honest with your presentation of your personal situation, then I am assuming that you bought all of your coins before the latest ATH. 

Accordingly, give or take 5 BTC, you have approximately 177 BTC, and you invested about $6,000.

I am NOT sure exactly how I calculated it, but the numbers seem to add up more or less.   

Good luck with that... ha ha ha ha....     

Yeah, mellow as fuck as he his throwing the cum rag to the corner because he has NOT been laid for years, but then again is Shroomie is a teenage kid living in mom's basement and popping zits, then maybe he is too young to get laid, anyhow?