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2741  Economy / Speculation / Re: ETA for the ETF? (and Gemini Exchange speculation) on: August 11, 2015, 03:22:31 PM
So let's say the ETF comes out and is successful. Would it be more profitable to hold shares of the ETF or bitcoins themselves?

They would essentially be worth the same... unless you value privacy and actual ownership which in this case holding Bitcoin is the reasonable thing to do.


One reason for Canadians to purchase ETF shares is because of something called the TFSA (Tax Free Savings Account). It's a government registered account in which you are allowed to invest a certain amount ($5k roughly) per year. It's been around for a few years and if you haven't contributed in the past then your cumulative total since 2009 would be $41,000.

The name is kind of misleading. A TFSA can be a savings account, but it can also be a brokerage account to hold Stocks, etc. So in this case you'd be able to purchase Bitcoin ETF shares and hold them in your TFSA and cash them out later tax free! For people holding BTC directly it might actually be worth selling some and repurchasing as ETF so that some of your gains will be non-taxable.

Why would you ever want to "cash-out" the gains and report them to authorities? Stop trying to legitimize this broken system.
2742  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: August 11, 2015, 03:18:12 PM
Beware cypherdoc, you might find yourself agreeing with a Popescu follower for once:

http://www.contravex.com/2015/08/05/pity-the-lil-goldbuggers/
2743  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: August 11, 2015, 03:10:18 PM
my pt was that the construction of the relay network might have been a knee jerk reaction to the same "large miner large block attack" FUD that has been spread around by the Cripplecoiners.  it's author is a BS employee after all. it's only been around since Sept 2014.  i'm not saying that the relay network has been bad for Bitcoin; it may even have been good.  except that it is encouraging this non-verification scheme for tx's which as you say, may be gamed and has contributed to quite a perversion in analyzing this particular attack and was never visualized in Satoshi's original ideas.  perhaps it is not necessary to exist.  that is not to deny that it does exist and we need to adapt to it's presence.

http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-August/009944.html

Maybe inform yourself before pulling things out your ass.

2744  Economy / Speculation / Re: ETA for the ETF? (and Gemini Exchange speculation) on: August 11, 2015, 02:51:46 PM
lol you guys are over estimating the winkles.

also, the etf is not going to happen anytime soon (within the next year).

They even switched legal advisors, for Gemini trust license they are now using Kaye Scholer LLP instead of Katten Muchin Rosenman LLP (which is/was used for their ETF)

I guess Katten Muchin Rosenman LLP couldn't get the job done, so they found another attorney.

good indicator: a few months before the ETF goes live because they will submit another S-1A excluding companies like mtgox, btc-e, and including companies like itbit, gemini, coinbase exchange etc

I think the SEC looked at the current, and previous, S-1A's with all those shady companies and laughed.

also, Gemini and ETF are unrelated. gemini is not a magic pill to get the ETF approved.

Gemini and itBit are practically the same in terms of regulations. And itBit is already launched. ETF's dont require the sponsors to launch their own exchange.

You should check the facts before sharing your fud  Wink

http://www.dfs.ny.gov/reportpub/wb150724.htm

Quote
July 22, 2015 (TR-CRB)
GEMINI TRUST COMPANY, LLC
30 West 24th Street, 4th Floor, New York, New York 10010
Articles of Organization received.

Organizers

Cameron H. Winklevoss, New York, NY
Tyler H. Winklevoss, New York, NY
Evan L. Greebel, Scarsdale, NY
Charles R. Macedo, Ardsley, NY
Kathleen H. Moriarty, New York, NY

Kathleen Moriarty is still helping the Winklevoss twins, but Moriarty left Katten Muchin Rosenman LLP and joined Kaye Scholer LLP.

So the twins are now working with Kaye Scholer LLP.

http://www.kayescholer.com/in-the-market/news/firm_news/20150630-evan-l-greebel-and-kathleen-h-moriarty-join-kaye-scholers-corporate-practice-as-partners

You can see this on Moriarty's Linkedin page: https://www.linkedin.com/pub/kathleen-h-moriarty-aka-%22spdrwoman%22/b/236/15b


Although, the good news is that it looks like this new firm they are working with is more interested in the Bitcoin space. From LinkedIn:

Financial Transactions Lawyer: focusing on:
--regulatory, structural, operational, trading, cross-listing and compliance issues related to ETFs, registered investment companies, other liquid alts, derivative securities, commodities and non-investment company exchange traded vehicles such as ETCs and ETPs;
--licensing of financial indexes and services for use with such products;
--BITCOIN : regulatory, structural, operational, trading, and compliance issues

I am aware of that.

Simply pointing out that "I guess Katten Muchin Rosenman LLP couldn't get the job done, so they found another attorney." and "they switched legal advisors" is kind of a stretch in this circumstance.
2745  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: August 11, 2015, 02:28:03 PM
Right, that would make sense until you realise in both cases (lightning and sidechains) these technologies need bigger blocks to scale.
But before they need to scale, they just might need some help convincing potential users they are even necessary at all.

Are you suggesting they are not?

2746  Economy / Speculation / Re: ETA for the ETF? (and Gemini Exchange speculation) on: August 11, 2015, 02:14:33 PM
So let's say the ETF comes out and is successful. Would it be more profitable to hold shares of the ETF or bitcoins themselves?

They would essentially be worth the same... unless you value privacy and actual ownership which in this case holding Bitcoin is the reasonable thing to do.
2747  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: August 11, 2015, 02:05:12 PM
Using logic, I can see two possible reason for being a block minimalist developer.

1)  Since "Uh oh, here it is we who decide the size of the blocks", because having power is good. Since there is no consensus within the self appointed dominator group, we have to wait until the royals can come to agreement.

2) They want to suffocate bitcoin, permanently if possible, to get a head start on their endevour into competing systems.

I'm leaning more and more towards 2, judging by the percentage of Blockstream supremacists and monero pimps between block minimalists.

I don't follow your logic.
Larger blocks would help Blockstream be effective.
I doubt there are many people (if any) in either Blockstream or Monero that are seeking for Bitcoin to not succeed.

It is disingenuous to assume a wicked motive in this debate just because you disagree on the risk assessment.
Those that disagree with you could do the same and say that you want big blocks ahead of other developments because you want Bitcoin to fail and it would also not make any sense or be useful to getting the right answer.

I think what he is saying is that he doesn't think the [2] people want bitcoin to fail, they want to leverage the artificial fee market to push the adoption of their preferred alternative technology.

Right, that would make sense until you realise in both cases (lightning and sidechains) these technologies need bigger blocks to scale.
2748  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: August 11, 2015, 02:02:00 PM
Using logic, I can see two possible reason for being a block minimalist developer.

1)  Since "Uh oh, here it is we who decide the size of the blocks", because having power is good. Since there is no consensus within the self appointed dominator group, we have to wait until the royals can come to agreement.

2) They want to suffocate bitcoin, permanently if possible, to get a head start on their endevour into competing systems.

I'm leaning more and more towards 2, judging by the percentage of Blockstream supremacists and monero pimps between block minimalists.

I don't follow your logic.
Larger blocks would help Blockstream be effective.
I doubt there are many people (if any) in either Blockstream or Monero that are seeking for Bitcoin to not succeed.

It is disingenuous to assume a wicked motive in this debate just because you disagree on the risk assessment.
Those that disagree with you could do the same and say that you want big blocks ahead of other developments because you want Bitcoin to fail and it would also not make any sense or be useful to getting the right answer.

I used "logic" to sound arrogant, it is a bad habit. Anyway, there is absolutely no higher risk with 1.1 MB than 1.0 MB. I don't want to repeat all the other arguments either way.

There is also absolutely no point to move from 1.0 MB to 1.1 MB.

2749  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: August 11, 2015, 02:27:22 AM
i'll be spending more time here:  https://www.reddit.com/r/bitcoin_uncensored/

 Roll Eyes

I refuse to believe you are actually an adult person.
2750  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: August 10, 2015, 08:43:10 PM
About censorship:

The current mob campaigning against censorship is precisely the same group that has spent the last couple months downvoting censoring  each and every reasonable and perfectly valid argument brought against block size increase or any thing that did not fit in their groupthink.

For that reason I am thoroughly enjoying the little hissy fit they are now throwing
2751  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: August 10, 2015, 08:16:25 PM

That post you included above is utter nonsense as a reply. Thermos being downvoted into the ground is valid to point out because it demonstrates just how much the community disagrees.

And that is the thing you don't seem to understand, bitcoin is a community defined construct, it is whatever its users want it to be. Is is not defined by a FOMC like entity.

poor guy.. you are even more naive than I thought.

the point YOU (and quite a few here) dont seem to understand is that the reddit mob in no way, shape or form defines "the community".

if there is a consensus amongst anyone with half a brain it is that no sane discussions on the topic of the block size debate can be had over there. The post I included explain exactly while it is so.

now you can keep fooling yourself with delusions of community consensus or get a grip and realise that no amount of upvotes or downvotes will shift the balance in the outcome of this issue.

2752  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: August 10, 2015, 07:13:48 AM
Thermos has been down voted into the ground on reddit for his behavior.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3gdad5/meta_on_hardforking_if_bitcoin_is_so_vulnerable/ctx6rgs

In another post he claims that consensus has not been achieved simply because Greg Peter and luke Jr do not agree and that is enough to out vote Gavin and mike. How seriously fucked up is that view.

I say XT should do away with waiting for 75% now, and simply fork at some block 3 months out and let people pick the vision they want to support. In the end the ecosystem will gravitate to one winner.

After checking he actually says "Wladamir, Greg, and Pieter are opposed to it". But yeah nice try of you to throw LukeJr in there  Wink

PS. I expected you to be above the all too common argumentum ad populum found amongst Gavinistas.

For future reference here's a post I digged up from reddit today that sums up well the idiocy behind juvenile comments such as "Thermos has been down voted into the ground on reddit"



Oh and btw good luck and have fun with your XTcoin
2753  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: August 10, 2015, 04:10:40 AM
The debate is settled; the consensus is 'we don't have a consensus.'

I would love to see the current definition of "consensus" for Bitcoin changes because if that means 100% support for doing something then the whole project is royally screwed. There has been no endeavor of importance in human history where unanimity was required on all decisions.

Satoshi is a pragmatist because he has >50% majority baked into deciding how the blockchain grows. That is the consensus he came up with and anything better is a "nice-to-have".

Yes, we know, you'd like it to be a democracy. Fortunately Bitcoin works exactly against that principle.
2754  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: August 10, 2015, 02:23:36 AM
about the lightning "vaporware" https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3ge122/sidechain_elements_lightning_protocol_testbed/?sort=confidence

is there a more exciting development in Bitcoin right now than the progress on Sidechains Elements™ & Lightning™ all brought to you by Blockstream™?

I don't think so!
2755  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: August 08, 2015, 12:05:09 AM
Interesting piece on the 2013 fork.  https://freedom-to-tinker.com/blog/randomwalker/analyzing-the-2013-bitcoin-fork-centralized-decision-making-saved-the-day/?utm_content=buffer4f46c&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Some ungrateful people here need to show a little more respect for the work of the devs, especially LukeJr.

You of all people would idolize Luke jr

I have no reason to idolize or care about Luke Jr.

Just maybe consider that he had the right insight in this particular scenario and avoided us a great deal of the trouble we would have encountered had we went with Gavin's proposed "solution.
2756  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: August 07, 2015, 11:32:14 PM
Interesting piece on the 2013 fork.  https://freedom-to-tinker.com/blog/randomwalker/analyzing-the-2013-bitcoin-fork-centralized-decision-making-saved-the-day/?utm_content=buffer4f46c&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Some ungrateful people here need to show a little more respect for the work of the devs, especially LukeJr.
2757  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: August 07, 2015, 09:26:29 PM
-snip-
I wouldn't be surprised if a company like 21inc is doing it already
-snip-

"A chip in every toaster" people?

There are two ways of making money with bitcoin mining.  One is to mine (risky, often disastrously unprofitable), the other is selling dreams to starry-eyed bitcoiners (easy, fun, works 99% of the time, no tech/con experience required).

Don't think 21inc is planning to do much mining.

They're arguably one of the major players in the mining industry at the moment so you might want to check your facts...

Just did a quick search, but my Google seems to be on the blink at the moment.  Mind giving me a link to their mining gear?  Pics of their chips?  Farm?  A mining address?
Thanks.


Details are scarce since they are still in stealth mode but here goes:

https://www.blocktrail.com/BTC/pool/21inc

Quote
The document suggests 21 had sought to build 20,000-server, 26-megawatt datacenters to serve as the center of a mining pool that could ensure block rewards.

As an example of the potential power of its pool, 21's mining operations generated approximately 5,700 BTC in 2013 and 69,000 BTC the following year, according to the document.

Quote
Intel factories, the documents suggested, were responsible for at least two generations of 21 bitcoin mining chips, a 0.57 w/GH 22nm FinFET chip (codenamed CyrusOne) and a 0.22 w/GH 22nm chip (codenamed Brownfield).

http://www.coindesk.com/21-inc-confirms-plans-bitcoin-distribution/
2758  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: August 07, 2015, 09:05:23 PM
-snip-
I wouldn't be surprised if a company like 21inc is doing it already
-snip-

"A chip in every toaster" people?

There are two ways of making money with bitcoin mining.  One is to mine (risky, often disastrously unprofitable), the other is selling dreams to starry-eyed bitcoiners (easy, fun, works 99% of the time, no tech/con experience required).

Don't think 21inc is planning to do much mining.

They're arguably one of the major players in the mining industry at the moment so you might want to check your facts...
2759  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: August 06, 2015, 11:46:09 PM

If you can't see through the smoke in this one...

This has penny stock pump and dump written all over it w/ a twist of GAW Miners.
2760  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: August 06, 2015, 08:30:04 PM
Just happen to be reading Hayek right now and this quote seems strangely relevant to our situation:

Quote
To allay these suspicions and to harness to its cart the strongest of all political motives - the craving for freedom - socialism began increasingly to make use of the promise of a "new freedom". (...) It was to bring "economic freedom" without which the political freedom already gained was "not worth having." (...)

To the great apostles of political freedom the word had mean freedom from coercion, freedom from the arbitrary power of other men, release from the ties which left the individual no choice but obedience to the orders of a superior to whom he was attached. The new freedom promised however, was to be freedom from necessity, release from the compulsion of the circumstances which inevitably limit the range of choice of all of us, although for some very much more than for others. Before man could be truly free, the "despotism of physical want" had to be broken, the "restraints of the economic system" relaxed. (...)

What the promise really amounted to was that the great existing disparities in the range of choice of different people were to disappear. The demand for the new freedom was thus only another name for the old demand for an equal distribution of wealth.

Now it might be a stretch but if we can make a parallel with the block size debate, large blocks stinks of "new freedom".
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