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2761  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Any way to get client startup faster? on: October 18, 2011, 12:19:29 AM
I did some benchmarking of client startup. About 75% of it is validating the block chain (CTxDB::LoadBlockIndex). About 15% of it is loading addresses (CAddrDB::LoadAddresses).

Looking at the block chain load/verify process, about 40% of the time is CBlock::BuildMerkleTree. About 10% is SHA256. The rest is ReadFromDisk, GetBlockHash, InsertBlockIndex, and so on.

Looking at the loading of addresses, it's distributed over many functions. The only standouts are CDB::ReadAtCursor and std::_Rb_tree::_M_insert_unique.

Just not checking that the transaction's hashes are correct and match the block header would halve the startup time.
2762  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: [20 BTC] Multithreaded Keep-alive Implementation in Bitcoind on: October 17, 2011, 06:50:49 PM
...
Hi. Do you have plans for bitcoin v0.4? Smiley Current patches are incompatible with it because of some changes in RPC. Sad
http://davids.webmaster.com/~davids/bitcoin-4diff-beta.txt
2763  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: MtGox: Green address option on: October 16, 2011, 06:43:50 PM
Re: key rotation, ssl list
However, it does suggest a superior scheme.
I haven't yet understood the purpose of this scheme. For precisely the reasons you stated before, it's "protecting against an attack that does not, and cannot, exist." What additional value does this scheme provide except to grossly complicate an elegant solution (green addresses)?
It permits providers to change their green addresses should they need to. It provide a uniform way to know who offers green addresses and which addresses they are using.

Right now, if you started accepting Bitcoin transactions and wanted to accept green addresses, there is no good way for you to know everyone who claims to have a green address, what that address is, and whether it has a history of reliability.

As for why it's important to allow sites to rotate green addresses, the issue is this: Right now, if you supported green addresses, and you had a slight fear that there had been some compromise to that account, what would you do? Say you had just fired someone who had access to the key. You trust them, but would prefer not to have to.

There are many other scenarios.
2764  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: MtGox: Green address option on: October 16, 2011, 05:07:43 AM
mtgox.com could just expose a list of recent transaction hashes that it has generated (eg in the past 24 hours) on its website. Fetching this list via SSL authenticates it as coming from mtgox.com. It has the following advantages over green addresses:

  • Key rotation is handled automatically (via the usual SSL mechanisms)
  • It does not require any special software or hacks, you can just use the RPC API to get transaction hashes from recent sends
  • After 24 hours the data goes away, so it's no longer possible to do privacy violations via block chain analysis (of course the authorities can still contact MtGox directly)
  • Does not require 2 transactions

It's also conceptually simpler.
Actually, that's vastly inferior, because nobody would know when to contact Mt. Gox. You wouldn't want to separately contact every green address provider on every transaction.

However, it does suggest a superior scheme. If sites could somehow broadcast their green addresses and a range of valid dates for each one in a signed form, that could fairly easily be polled. The rule could be you must announce a new green address at least a week before you use it. So people would only need to pull that list every three days or so.

This would allow green addresses to be rotated easily and wouldn't require a poll on every transaction.
2765  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: MtGox: Green address option on: October 16, 2011, 05:04:19 AM
It is usually seen as a good thing to not use the same public/private key pair for a long long time, especially when using those to sign a lot of crap.
You'd be using the key for the same amount of time to sign the same number of things. Whether or not you hold Bitcoins in that account has no effect on either of these two factors.

When you setup a green address, you are asking people to trust the security of that address. The fact that you have clearly stated that *you* do not trust its security makes the green address useless. If you don't trust it, why should anyone else? If you don't trust the key to secure your own funds, why should I trust the ownership of that very same key to protect against double-spending attacks?

I'm 99.9% sure you're protecting against an attack that does not, and cannot, exist. But if it does, your solution doesn't at all solve the problem. If it does exist, until you solve it, you cannot have a persistent green address.
2766  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Problems with Bitcoin 0.4 and truecrypt on: October 15, 2011, 09:07:41 AM
i don't know if this is the issue or not, but i seem to recall not being able to have a root folder as the data dir.

try creating n:\data\ and pointing it there.

Yep. It's a reported bug in the Bitcoin client. The workaround is to use a subdirectory.

Essentially, the client tries to create its data directory to make sure it exists. If it fails with any error other than "directory already exists", it barfs. Trying to create 'n:\' will fail, obviously, and not because the directory already exists, because there is no parent directory in which to create it. So the client sees the unusual error and assumes something is wrong with its data directory.

The correct approach is to attempt to create the directory, ignoring any errors generated. Then it should attempt to access the directory, and fail if it cannot.
2767  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: MtGox: Green address option on: October 15, 2011, 09:01:32 AM
why? its not sub-optimal...
It's sub-optimal because it at least doubles the number of transactions required. In many cases, it more than doubles them. (Because it removes the ability to consolidate multiple withdrawals into a single transaction.)

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please explain. both transactions in the same block is completely valid. its actually a beautiful solution, to a rather complex problem. if you trust mtgox, and their green address, you can comfirm the tx without it being included in a block.
The problem it solves does not actually exist. It's entirely imagined.
2768  Economy / Speculation / Re: The Fallacy of Having to "Absorb Bitcoins" on: October 13, 2011, 06:07:06 PM
The current market price already takes into account the fact that there will be 21 million Bitcoins; it assumes that the 21 million Bitcoins already exist.
It would if it had a large enough time horizon, but the Bitcoin market has a very short time horizon. People don't know if Bitcoins will be worth $1,000 each in three years or be worthless due to non-adoption and obsolescence. So while the next year or so of new coins is priced in, the time horizon keeps including more and more of the future mining. The fact that there will ultimately be 21 million Bitcoins has almost no effect on the market today because the probability that Bitcoin will remain relevant until they're all mined is unknown.
2769  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: New Ixcoin fork -> I0coin on: October 04, 2011, 04:24:19 AM
I have not asked or imposed on anyone to cover my losses.
I agree. But you could if you wanted to. If you were helping the community, it's entirely possible the community would be willing to help you in return. But you can't make your customers cover your losses -- I hope you agree with that.

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The withdrawal fee has always been there. Users of the exchange were able to see the fee and choose to deposit or not knowing that there's a fee to withdraw. That fee is solely there to cover the network transaction fee for sending and receiving coins. Knowing a fee exists the risk is upon the user that if circumstances require them to withdraw they need to pay that fee.
Except their circumstances don't require them to withdraw, *yours* do. My argument is since it's your circumstances that are compelling them to withdraw, you should cover the fee.

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In a previous comment you raise an analogy of early termination charges on insurance policies. The withdrawal fee here is not an 'early termination' fee. It's a fee to cover what the bitcoin network charges for transferring money and has been charged always - whether 'terminating early' or not.
Right, but you are forcing them to terminate early. Otherwise, for example, they may have changed the Bitcoins to Ixcoins and avoided the withdrawal fee. It is your action that is making them incur the fee.

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You are making it sound like I'm charging a fee to recoup losses. This is not the case.
I agree. I'm not sure what I said that implied that you were charging a fee to recoup losses. (I think it may have been places where I was refuting arguments that you did not make, and likely would not agree with, for example when someone suggested that you opened the exchange to help the community and therefore it's okay to compel individuals to help you in return.)

Let me try another analogy. Say you and I had made a deal to exchange a $100 cashier's check for a bicycle. I get the cashier's check, costing myself $5. When I go to buy the bicycle, you say you changed your mind and are no longer willing to sell it. Should you reimburse me the $5?

I grant that the $5 is not a fee you are charging, it's a fee my bank charged for the cashier's check. But your promise induced me to incur that fee, and it is you who are defaulting on that promise.

Now, to be clear, I am not saying this is a big deal and you are a cheater or scammer if you don't make withdrawals free. It's a very small deal, and I realize that reasonable people can differ. But my opinion is that those fees are part of your losses, and you should not pass them on to your customers. You forced the customers to incur those charges by compelling them to withdraw when otherwise they may not have done so. It is equivalent to a fee for terminating an agreement early where you are compelling them to terminate early.

That's my opinion, you are free to disagree.
2770  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: New Ixcoin fork -> I0coin on: October 04, 2011, 02:18:13 AM
He's lost ~200 btc already trying to do this community a favor. Please give him a break.
I'm perfectly willing to give him a break. The issue is him compelling other people who might not feel so generous to also give him a break. It's perfectly fine to open a business to help the community, but you can't then turn around and insist that individual members of that community turn around and help you out. He can certainly *ask* the community to help him cover his losses. However, it is wrong for him to compel them to or to impose his losses on others.
2771  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: New Ixcoin fork -> I0coin on: October 03, 2011, 01:38:32 PM
The withdraw function for IOC is locked up incidentally. And it might be nice to turn off the fees charged for people to withdraw their remaining funds.
Withdrawals seem to be working - what do you mean they are locked up? The exchange still has to pay a withdrawal fee, especially as the wallet gets low on funds and hits fragmented addresses, so it doesn't make sense for it to turn it off and to incur an even greater loss than it already has.
It does make sense to turn it off, since you are compelling people to withdraw. It's not really fair to tell people "you must withdraw all your coins" and at the same time charge them a fee for doing so. Consider a person who just deposited some funds, who now must withdraw them an incur a fee and who gets nothing for his funds.

This is the risk you assumed, and which you were paid for assuming, when you opened an exchange.

I guess a good analogy might be a whole life insurance policy. Such a policy might have a fee associated with cashing in the policy before a particular date. But if the company is going out of business and requires everyone to cash in their policy or lose it, they should clearly waive the fee.
2772  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: IDEA: Anonymous, revocable transactions on: October 01, 2011, 04:10:13 AM
The standard script doesn't actually contain an opcode to encrypt/decrypt anything.  The only crypt it has are the hash functions and it can check the ECDSA signatures.
This is the biggest problem. ECDSA is for signing and verifying, not encrypting and decrypting. Something like ECIES would have to be added or we'd have to use RSA instead.
2773  Economy / Economics / Re: The Myth of Government Debt on: September 30, 2011, 02:04:50 PM
I'm not sure I follow, but yes even for TIPS.
Well then could you answer the implied question -- how?!
2774  Economy / Economics / Re: The Myth of Government Debt on: September 30, 2011, 12:13:46 PM
Well I'm sorry to inform you, but you have been the victim of a very effective propaganda campaign. A country that creates its own currency will never have an inability to pay back its national debt.
Even if that debt is in the form of inflation-protected securities like TIPS?
http://www.treasurydirect.gov/indiv/products/prod_tips_glance.htm
2775  Economy / Speculation / Re: Hold your horses. on: September 30, 2011, 10:21:50 AM
No, they are not accountable.  What you describe is simply good customer service.  If MtGox ran or allowed an advantaged trade bot and made that fact public you'd see outrage and fleeing, I guarantee it.  That's the advantage of NOT being accountable.  As long as nobody can prove anything no backlash, just additional profit.
It doesn't matter whether anyone can prove anything or not. If I tend to lose a lot at a casino, I won't go back to that casino. I don't need to prove that the odds are worse there, I just need to feel that I'm not doing as well as I think I should and I'll try someplace else. If I do better elsewhere, I'll stay there.
2776  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: A case AGAINST merging Namecoin and Bitcoin mining [Converted to SUPPORT!] on: September 26, 2011, 04:07:36 AM
Namecoin data (unrelated to bitcoin) is added to the bitcoin block chain, thus making the bitcoin block chain unnecessarily larger.
Technically true. I agree that those things are literally incorrect, and when you're trying to make an argument on a contentious issue, it's good to be precisely correct. Merged mining does add some bytes to the bitcoin block chain. However, lots of other things add many more bytes to the bitcoin block chain and are of much less value.

In fact, if I were designing a Bitcoin replacement/update, one of my solutions to the reducing mining payout over time would be transaction fees for securing things in the block chain -- with an efficient "secure these hashes" transaction and a per-hash transaction fee. (This transaction would have no outputs and clients would know that they have no need to store it as a transaction. Block chain pruning could discard it entirely.)

In any event, if the transaction fees don't accurately reflect the costs associated with committing bitcoin transactions to the block chain, they should be raised. Unfortunately, there's a somewhat fundamental tragedy of the commons here. One person gets the transaction fee just for including the transaction in a block, but then everyone must store that transaction forever. This is a design flaw in the Bitcoin protocol that will likely get resolved in the future.
2777  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: SolidCoin v2.0 features new hashing algorithm, faster on CPUs on: September 25, 2011, 12:08:57 AM
Sure, CPUs do all sorts of things better than GPUs. CPUs are great at managing interrupts from multiple devices like USB, PCI, etc. CPUs are great at managing memory spaces, protecting system resources from other threads of execution. And so on. None of those have anything to do with hashing algorithms that make the blockchain secure.
We add things like interrupt management and memory protection to CPUs because of the way people typically use CPUs. What's fundamental to a CPU is the ability to accelerate random accesses to memory, to make program flow decisions, and so on.

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The beauty of the Bitcoin hashing system is the asymetric nature combined with robust security. Incredible amount of computing power to find a hash, but trivial to verify the hash. I suspect that this new SC "design" is going to mess it up.
Typically the hash verification takes place on a CPU anyway. In any event, you could make hash verification take several hundred times more computing power and memory than it requires currently and it would, for practical purposes, make no difference. The only thing you'd need to change is, perhaps, DoS protection against nodes that stream blocks with invalid hashes at you.
2778  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: SolidCoin v2.0 features new hashing algorithm, faster on CPUs on: September 23, 2011, 11:05:23 PM
If they had an FPGA already it wouldn't be a waste of money and 100 megahash would be god-like in the land of the CPUs.
An FPGA couldn't run a memory-hard algorithm at those kinds of speeds. If this is done right, you carefully design the algorithm so that a CPU is the ideal platform to implement it on. That is, you specifically design it around the things that CPUs do best. (If there was nothing CPUs do best, why would be using them?)
2779  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Proposed solution for incorrectly entered BitCoin addresses on: September 23, 2011, 01:57:07 PM
I actually did send bitcoins (with no fee) to another wallet on a smartphone, but while the trasaction cleared the bitcoins from my pc wallet, it did not appear on my smartphone even after several minutes. I then recovered a backup and sent the same bitcoins to another address (MtGox) this time with a fee and they did move to MtGox. I suppose I double-spent them, but it worked.
Your client only sent the transaction to one other client, to better hide the origin point of the transaction. That client refused to relay the transaction because you didn't include a fee. So that transaction never got anywhere. Had you left the client running, it would likely have eventually sent the transaction to a node willing to relay it.

Once a transaction gets out broadly, the network will not accept a conflicting transaction. You'd need a conspiring miner to get the conflicting transaction into a block.
2780  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: SolidCoin v2.0 features new hashing algorithm, faster on CPUs on: September 23, 2011, 03:05:53 AM
I predict it'll take... mmm... 3 weeks after source code is released for the first faster-on-a-GPU solidcoin 2.0 closed-source miner to come out.  8 weeks until there's an open-source one available.

But my predictions are often wrong.
There's a good chance you're right. While it's trivial in theory, it's quite difficult in practice. It's in many ways analogous to coming up with a secure encryption algorithm, but more difficult.
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