So in order to be a market leader, you can't have outside help, or subcontracted components? Come on, you can't be real... Who put you up to this? Am I on Punk'd?
I'm going to take this as your lighthearted admission to being wrong. Give yourself a pat on the back, it feels good to admit it once and awhile, doesn't it? No, serious question. Are you saying that industry leaders are precluded from subcontracting? Apple will be totally bummed to hear this... BFL is an industry leader? What does that mean for Avalon or ASICMiner? Industry PimP?  |
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Not BFL, it's sub-contractors who made the actual ASIC if I recall correctly. Everything was outsourced, as was evident from you always explaining why everything was done away from your direct control. (In stark contrast to why Avalon got things done quickly)
I quite enjoy when this fact gets brought up after BFL's monkey runs off on diatribes about how they created an ASIC. I quite enjoy when the trolls grasp at smaller and smaller straws, when their arguments get completely destroyed by facts and logic. That like me paying an olympic runner to run in my race. Then state on the record that I am the fastest in the world! Small details....you know.... small details.... More like Honda paying Nicky Hayden to race their motorcycles, and then declaring themselves to be a leader in motorcycle racing.  Thats what a sponsor does. They don't hide the company or people that make things happen. In fact, often they tout it. But I assume this small argument went right over your capacity as a human being.
I'm going to take this as your lighthearted admission to being wrong. Give yourself a pat on the back [of your head], it feels good to admit it once and awhile, doesn't it?
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[shill bullshit]
They're not ASIC engineers by trade. So what's the best thing to do when you need a product/component from a trade you don't specialize in? Find somebody who DOES specialize in that, and hire them to design that component for you. Then subcontract with another company to manufacture that component.
[more shill bullshit]
Oh, so then they were lying when they posted "Butterfly Labs (BF Labs Inc.), a market leader in microprocessor design [...]" and "The company offers a range of products and consulting services in semiconductor design."? Sounds to me like they are ASIC designers. Or maybe they're a bunch of fucking liars? Source: http://web.archive.org/web/20130129102300/http://news.yahoo.com/butterfly-labs-announces-next-generation-asic-lineup-054626776.htmlSo in order to be a market leader, you can't have outside help, or subcontracted components? Come on, you can't be real... Who put you up to this? Am I on Punk'd? To be a market leader, you have to have in house engineers who know what they are doing. Like Avalon. (See that anooyying fact?) In this way, the products and people can come together under one roof or one unified management and the products issues are resolved quickly and on time. Not by paying Bob in France who only works on Monday and Tuesdays, but hes occupied elsewhere and therefore must attend to his priority projects. Or working as a possible bank teller (no, this parody is very much not a joke). I know, facts bother the mind of a shill. I should know, I am a Master BFL Shill myself. When confronted with such issues, deflect. Always deflect. Simply comment on the color of the ground today. That will surely get your mind off that reality. Or simply get you off. One or the other. |
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Not BFL, it's sub-contractors who made the actual ASIC if I recall correctly. Everything was outsourced, as was evident from you always explaining why everything was done away from your direct control. (In stark contrast to why Avalon got things done quickly)
I quite enjoy when this fact gets brought up after BFL's monkey runs off on diatribes about how they created an ASIC. I quite enjoy when the trolls grasp at smaller and smaller straws, when their arguments get completely destroyed by facts and logic. That like me paying an olympic runner to run in my race. Then state on the record that I am the fastest in the world! Small details....you know.... small details.... |
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Yeah, give it to Cklovias. Or buy him a gold plated keyboard. For the low resistance to programing. |
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It is because BFL messed 'up' when they designed their unit they opted for a single heat-sink... (seems reasonable)
Unfortunately they did not work out that one chip, like a unicycle is very difficult to balance on. ESP. if it is at a corner
so to fix this mess they did the only unreasonable thing.... added 2 chips.
Rather than this it's simple math, they do not have enough(any?) chips that could do 5(4.5 old spec) gh/s reliably so they were forced to use 2 chips to reach the performance goal. However most(or at least a majority) of their chips can probably handle 3,5 GH/s so there was no point in not offering this upgrade path. Before someone goes bitching about that they should just have given out the upgrade for free, that would have fucked over the MR/S/LS customers since they cant offer the same kind of upgrade on those SKUs without using more chips. Old spec was actually 7.5 GH/s. They missed that by a mile. So 2x 2.5's made the difference. |
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I appreciate the apology, but it's pretty hard to take seriously when, in the same post (and many others), you continue to talk up how you're going to bring about an epic lawsuit against BFL. I don't believe I am saying anything offensive, detrimental, uncivil, false, slanderous or libelous. You're absolutely right, you're not. You're just being threatening (in the legal sense). Much like physical threats, I do not respond well to either. Like I said, if you're going to do it, skin that hogleg and go to work; quit talking about it. You have made your intent to initiate legal proceedings very clear, so there's nothing more to say other than "see you in court." The letter has not yet been sent. It's not too late to settle this civilly via email. With all due respect, I'm trying to be as reasonable and civil as possible. I am sorry you feel threatened. You should have no reason to feel threatened if you have done nothing wrong. I don't feel threatened by you in any way, I said you were being threatening, that's why I'm telling you to get on with it and quit yakkin' about it. Just because a chihuahua arches it back, grows and yips in a threatening manner at a person doesn't mean the person is threatened by the chihuahua. Sometimes it's even cute.  Ok. I tried. It was worth the try. <Shrug>? |
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I'm not opposed to the idea that you could have valid reasons for everything that has happened. Like a majority of the people on the forum I just haven't seen it. It seems like there are consistently unfulfilled promises, and when people point that out they get ignored, or have ad hominem thrown at them. How can this be justified? Because it's cool? You're in a company man, grow up. The people that you are talking to may be completely pissed off and unreasonable, but look at it from their point of view, they feel totally screwed with. If you tried to explain things calmly instead of making people feel ridiculous all the time, I think you would be much better off.
Been there, tried that. Doesn't work. When you have inheriently irrational people like PL, Frizz, etc... who's sole purpose is to denigrate BFL, regardless of facts, truth and honesty, it doesn't matter what you say. They will fabricate whatever information that need to make their statements. Like I said, any time you try to get them to back up their ridiculous statements, they deflect or ignore. Go ahead and try it... go pick out one of their ridiculous statements then get them to provide some proof or convincing evidence for their position... you'll get nothing in return. I would appreciate this as well. Will be helpful in the coming weeks. Yes Xian, we've all heard, ad naseum, about how you're going to mount the awesome legal offensive against BFL. Nobody cares, haven't you figured that out yet? Just get on with it, all this posturing you are doing is just making you look like more of a tool than anything else. Like someone already said, if you really had legal council, you wouldn't be posting on the forum. You're a joke, man, move on. Total BS. People call you out on BS after you ask them to prove otherwise, you always ignore them when they meet your BS with the truth. Even when threads are inconvenient on BFL forums you tar the guy who brings up the past to bite thy ass again and again. How do you think so many people now know you for your reputations? Magic? People read, people learn, people eventually understand. ------------------------ Hopefully you don't honestly think people "are mistaken" when they think extremely negative thoughts about you or the company you represent??  |
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Wrong, it's a matter of degree Inaba, someone may come right up to the peak and not make it over, whereas someone else will be just barely more prepared, and slightly less incompetent, and still make it. Don't try to rewrite history. Tom was and is a drunk piece of shit. He's one step away from a scummy used car salesman, nothing more. He lied from day one about his ASIC bullshit and strung people along with no clear ability or path to delivering. BFL has made mistakes, yes, but at least we've always had a clear path forward and we've always intended to deliver a product. Tom... not so much.
Has anyone compiled a list of your invective? I think that may be fun to read  Possibly good for newbs to know before they get involved.. I would love if someone did... then there'd be a central place that I can point to and say "You're full of shit, this is what I said, not your mindless bullshit you keep peddling." Instead, right now, people post all sorts of mindless bullshit they make up, I ask them to prove it with quotes/links and they fail and go on with their crap. I mean, just look at any BFL thread and anything that comes out of PuertoLibre, Frizz, et al is 90% manufactured bullshit with nothing substantive to back up their ramblings, yet they keep peddling it as if it were truth. If you try to get them to back up their claims, they become strangely silent. Yes, please make it so! Except, it's almost always true. But if you say it ain't some dupes eventually will believe the company that didn't ship anything but excuses until very recently. |
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They got exactly 0 ASICS. Which is, at the time it all occurred, the same number of ASICs that were delivered by BFL, or anyone for that matter. The key difference is that Tom of bASIC tried to maintain complete transparency, so when things started to turn sour, it was very apparent that it was occurring. BFL's underhanded tactics on the other hand have muddied the waters so thoroughly no one has any idea which was is up. They had both shipped many FPGA units, and I'd consider the thought that even at that, Tom was more successful at this attempt with FPGAs than BFL was. What, the transparency where he explicitly, willfully and with full knowledge lied about having a prototype that was hashing, when in fact he had absolutely nothing what so ever? And maintained that he had a prototype and was in the process of developing this mythical ASIC with these absurd power numbers, when in fact he had done exactly NOTHING. Not a single thing towards developing an ASIC? You mean that kind of transparency? Don't try to rewrite history. Tom was and is a drunk piece of shit. He's one step away from a scummy used car salesman, nothing more. He lied from day one about his ASIC bullshit and strung people along with no clear ability or path to delivering. BFL has made mistakes, yes, but at least we've always had a clear path forward and we've always intended to deliver a product. Tom... not so much. Transparency... heh. What a joke. Stop trying to rewrite history to bolster your pathetic little argument. I actually had to read this through twice. You've literally described your contribution to the bitcoin world over the last 9 months. The only differences being: 1) You had more investment, you could weather the storm 2) You had the intention of actually making an ASIC Now for a second forget about the bullshit and the "I think you're doing everything wrong", and honestly just read back what you've posted. You think Tom was a horrific person for seemingly valid reasons [assuming its true, I have no intention of verifying that as its irrelevant]. Can you not understand the hatred you [BFL] and you [personally] have garnered over this time period? Every single sentence just seems to describe what's happened in the last year. Except, you now, the part about... umm, all of it, you mean? The point of my post: 1. Tom was unable to handle creating an ASIC. 2. BFL had the intention of making an ASIC, Tom apparently did not, although this is speculative, maybe he did, but he did a piss poor job of it. Contrast to BFL who A) Is and was able to handle creating an ASIC and B) had the intention of making an ASIC. So your post is complete nonsense. Is does not describe BFL in any way, shape or form. Try again. You are at 100% fail so far in this thread, can you maybe make a single post where you don't fall flat on your face? Not BFL, it's sub-contractors who made the actual ASIC if I recall correctly. Everything was outsourced, as was evident from you always explaining why everything was done away from your direct control. (In stark contrast to why Avalon got things done quickly) |
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They got exactly 0 ASICS. Which is, at the time it all occurred, the same number of ASICs that were delivered by BFL, or anyone for that matter. The key difference is that Tom of bASIC tried to maintain complete transparency, so when things started to turn sour, it was very apparent that it was occurring. BFL's underhanded tactics on the other hand have muddied the waters so thoroughly no one has any idea which was is up. They had both shipped many FPGA units, and I'd consider the thought that even at that, Tom was more successful at this attempt with FPGAs than BFL was. What, the transparency where he explicitly, willfully and with full knowledge lied about having a prototype that was hashing, when in fact he had absolutely nothing what so ever? And maintained that he had a prototype and was in the process of developing this mythical ASIC with these absurd power numbers, when in fact he had done exactly NOTHING. Not a single thing towards developing an ASIC? You mean that kind of transparency? Don't try to rewrite history. Tom was and is a drunk piece of shit. He's one step away from a scummy used car salesman, nothing more. He lied from day one about his ASIC bullshit and strung people along with no clear ability or path to delivering. BFL has made mistakes, yes, but at least we've always had a clear path forward and we've always intended to deliver a product. Tom... not so much. Transparency... heh. What a joke. Stop trying to rewrite history to bolster your pathetic little argument. So clear, it was mistakenly targeted a year too early. |
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Apologies Tubor, Should one of the chosen participants pull out for what ever reason I will be sure to contact you immediately.
I was joking. I don't even own an avalon. Uh, You may want to check the list and make sure you send the units to people who actually have an Avalon. |
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I put myself forth as a validator.
I actually own a Batch 1 Avalon. Sigh, I also have an order in but am weary considering all the money being flung at the problem of ASICs of this side of BitCoinTalk.
You could say I am the biggest skeptic out there (check my ignore button!). If I say it is real, it is like receiving a blessing from the Pope. (Am I kidding?)
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Now if only a certain someone had the sense to speak to this community so clearly and openly to begin with, instead of kicking the hornet's nest on here by mocking us all and punitively cancelling orders, I'm sure the "state of things" would be much nicer instead of having turned so nasty  A very well written and honest post. The only problem being, it's a post written by a customer who doesn't know the REAL story. He just made a story based on what he thinks he knows. The REAL story is unknown as BFL won't say much. |
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They are more like feral cats. They collect in a place, scratch it up, shit all over the place and then leave when it's a wreck, to find a new place to ruin for everyone else.
It almost sounds like what you did with BitCoin. Expert execution! When are you shipping ASICs based on Scrypt? |
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Guess who looks like an idiot? Here's a clue, take a look in a mirror.
How's your ASIC doing? Well, since they're into August's pre-orders, it looks all set to be shipped to me by the end of July, just like I anticipated when I made my order in April. Any expectations on how the thing will do in regards of ROI? Yesterday evening a Jalapeno still represented about 0,0038% of the network, but with what we know what they've still got in their order books this percentage is going to be Satoshi-sized pretty damn fast. I'll make the following assumptions: - I start mining at the very start of a new difficulty round.
- The starting difficulty is based on a network hashrate of 500 Th/s.
- The network hash rate increases by 100 TH/s each new difficulty round.
This gives us the following data for a 5 Gh/s device: Network Hash Rate = 500 Th/s, Difficulty = 69849193.0961609, BTC/round = 0.50475000 Network Hash Rate = 600 Th/s, Difficulty = 83819031.7153931, BTC/round = 0.42062500 Network Hash Rate = 700 Th/s, Difficulty = 97788870.3346252, BTC/round = 0.36053571 Network Hash Rate = 800 Th/s, Difficulty = 111758708.953857, BTC/round = 0.31546875 Network Hash Rate = 900 Th/s, Difficulty = 125728547.57309, BTC/round = 0.28041667 Network Hash Rate = 1000 Th/s, Difficulty = 139698386.192322, BTC/round = 0.25237500 That gives a total of 2.13417113 BTC for the 6 difficulty rounds. Since I ordered in April when BTC was at it's high, I'll recoup the cost for the device and make a profit after 4 rounds. With the network hash rate at 1900 Th/s, I'd be making about the same as what I get now from my 300 Mh/s, which is still profitable. Man, are your numbers off by a few factors! |
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What are your other accounts on Bitcointalk? (list all of them)
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--A functional PayPal Payment Processor.
Problem: Most of the people who received units were not customers, nor were they even paid orders.
Conundrum Question: How was the issue resolved if Paypal did not receive a valid notice of shipments?
The process of disputing with Paypal then turned into an incident where all customers were asked, point blank, if they still wanted their devices or if they were requesting a refund. (As well as accepting some changes to their purchased hardware.) Josh from BFL stated that if the process of confirming the order wasn't completed in a reasonable time frame, then they would automatically refunds customers. Problem: This does not appear to be the case. It appears that customers who did not answer the question were not refund automatically as stated by the rep. This is evident if you look through the BFL forums and recent blog posts. Statements from BFL seem to indicate that those who did not answer the confirmation request resulted in: A) Your order was not shipped even if you were next. B) You did not receive an automatic refund as previously stated by BFL Reps. ---------------------- Question, what does BFL then do with that information? It appears there was a purpose to the confirmation. This specific process seemed to "mysteriously resolve" the Paypal issue. Yet there are customers who did not answer. The refunds requested by email are processed at a very lengthy period of time, at times. varying anywhere from 1 day to 1 month. A large majority of those refunds are processed as "payments" (as opposed to straight forward "refunds") to customers via PayPal. ------------------------------ What happens if BFL then loses the only Payment Processor they have at this time? (BitPay not included as they are virtual currency.) Can BFL (affordably) refund people using Bank Wires and BitCoin payments? Would losing Paypal cause immeasurable issues? Would it result in big time issues when issuing refunds? I think so. |
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Your original point that a mass refund would help BFL remains idiotic. Your defense of it is dogmatic. Saying that you are after some charity money from BFL was sarcasm, you would not be worth it.
A controlled refund process would help BFL. An uncontrolled refund process would be detrimental to BFL. I am going to wear my SUPER Troll costume. Beware, I rarely put it on. --------------------------- Think about it for a bit, if you are BFL what are your weakest links in a controlled refund process? Think. Well, if you are them, they rely on: --A functional bank account or two. --A functional PayPal Payment Processor. --A functional Website. --A pragmatic presence with (very) visible but (very) low interaction. ------------------ They are (I am pretty sure) already in violation of Paypal's policy. Point 1: A controlled refund process requires that a company controls its outflow of money. You always should retain control of this process. If the process become an uncontrolled outflow, the company may collapse. If as company, some customers were to raise the alarm that there are non-standard practices at play which would counter PayPal merchant policies or Term and Conditions, then the company may lose access to the PayPal network. Perhaps even lose access to the MasterCard and Visa network if they got blacklisted. Point 2: The uncontrolled conditions. In early May, there was an incident where this occurred. Someone let Paypal know that BFL had not shipped a massive quantity of orders. Begrudgingly (it seems) BFL was forced to respond to the complaints and address the issue with their customers. Suddenly, there was an outflow of orders. Strangely, it was mentioned By BFL that they were required to show proof (to Paypal) that they were shipping out units to customers. Problem: Most of the people who recieved units were not customers, nor were they even paid orders. Conundrum Question: How was the issue resolved if Paypal did not receive a valid notice of shipments? |
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