By the way, what is the point of selling off gen 2 chips if they haven't sold of gen 1 chips?
It wouldn't make much sense. The sale of Gen 2 chips before Gen 1 chips are "given away" would only depreciate the price of Gen 1 chips even further...
My best guess is that photo's of the gen 2 Avalons will show up as well as the sale of Gen 1 goes live (though to me that doesn't make much sense...either).
I also assume the 2 module Avalon (Gen 2) will be 3x to 7x more powerful (hashing wise) than the original modules at probably 2 watts per GH/s.
3 x 300Mh/s = 900 Mh/s
or
7 x 300Mh/s = 2.1 Gh/s
1 module has 10 x 8 = 80 chips (if I recall correctly)
So the new module should be anywhere from 72Gh/s to 168Gh/s.
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If so, then a 2 module Avalon should probably be anywhere from 144 Gh/s to 336 Gh/s.
A 3 module Avalon should probably be anywhere from 216 Gh/s to 504 Gh/s.
A 4 module Avalon should probably be anywhere from 288 Gh/s to 672 Gh/s.
Actual Stock values were a little higher than my low end prediction. 4 x 300Mh/s = 1.2Gh/s~ 62Gh/s per module. 2 watts per Gh/s |
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Hey PL, as much as I appreciate and are entertained by your posts in all BFL bashing threads..with that said No one gives a rats ass about your TAV purchase opinions. So much so that everything was sold well above 15btc and there are dozens of bidders who are sorry they lost or missed the bidding. For you at least move on there is nothing of interest for you here. See you on the BFL threads  I am pretty sure that there are alot of people who aren't interested in getting their BTC back, so of course they don't really mind blowing BTC to the wind. To hail that as something to be proud of....interesting to say the least. I guess every fool smiles when they take a crap. |
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  You can manipulate the two bars above to get an idea of what TAV expects people to make back from their purchase. Blue is your investment monies (if you expect to get at least that much back from buying a TAV unit. Red is your profit monies (if you expect to get any profit back just resize the width.) A blue and red bar of equal lengths of 300 pixels equals a full recovery of investment funds and an equal amount of profit. $100 goes into hardware, $200 are made back by said hardware. (a 100% ROI) |
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Yifu made it pretty clear during the chip fiasco that:
1) He was not in control
2) He had zero influence over whether or not the guys in China shipped parts
Basically he is a glorified reseller only, and reseller with no control or influence over anything at that.
Why people would give him any more money is beyond me. He has no ability to get parts, influence pricing or specs, or anything. Worst he completely oversold who he is and what he could do. No one should ever trust him.
Is this true? |
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Yifu calls in next gen. KNC en Bitfury call it Gen -2  Yifu and BFL both down the drain Are you sure? |
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I am just gonna leave this here, so that people can use it to point out that many agreed to...probably nothing. |
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By the way, what is the point of selling off gen 2 chips if they haven't sold of gen 1 chips?
It wouldn't make much sense. The sale of Gen 2 chips before Gen 1 chips are "given away" would only depreciate the price of Gen 1 chips even further...
My best guess is that photo's of the gen 2 Avalons will show up as well as the sale of Gen 1 goes live (though to me that doesn't make much sense...either).
I also assume the 2 module Avalon (Gen 2) will be 3x to 7x more powerful (hashing wise) than the original modules at probably 2 watts per GH/s.
3 x 300Mh/s = 900 Mh/s
or
7 x 300Mh/s = 2.1 Gh/s
1 module has 10 x 8 = 80 chips (if I recall correctly)
So the new module should be anywhere from 72Gh/s to 168Gh/s.
========================
If so, then a 2 module Avalon should probably be anywhere from 144 Gh/s to 336 Gh/s.
A 3 module Avalon should probably be anywhere from 216 Gh/s to 504 Gh/s.
A 4 module Avalon should probably be anywhere from 288 Gh/s to 672 Gh/s.
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The counter has gotten fancier....but will it start counting negative time? (A long standing joke, forgive me Yifu...  ) |
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I'm not trolling, I'm genuinely irritated by the misuse of a well understood accounting term.
There are three ways that a hypothetical buyer would not make ROI on this.
1. The unit is DOA (which you have contingencies in place for.)
2. The buyer puts it in their trophy collection and never mines with it.
3. The buyer doesn't use it, gets a refund, and goes on their merry way.
ROI stands for Return ON Investment. Not Return OF Investment. If it mines at all, you make a ROI.
"a return" in this context is synonymous to benefit and to me at least, without qualification implies a non negative, non zero value. The context makes it quite clear and Im perfectly fine if people leave out unneeded words. Compare it to discount. In theory a discount can also be zero or even negative, but when someone says they get a discount, a positive number is assumed. Noted. And were this a common usage, I might even agree. But ROI is a very specific term from accounting, not a general usage term. Having now been on this forum for some time, I do understand what people mean. When I first came here, seeing this made my mind twitch. Took me a while to understand that people were not ACTUALLY referring to ROI, but to breakeven. Not that it really improved matters, because they were getting their panties in a bunch over not meeting breakeven in a two to three week period. (that wasn't aimed at you, Puppet, you've been pretty reasonable even when you were clearly raving mad  ). Breaking even means $100 spent --> $200 returned on the investment.... Correct? (not sure what breaking even means, as some people like to use the term to mean they made back what they actually spent...I have heard so many uses of this that it boggles the mind) Edit: I am not an accountant (thank God) but some folks use ROI to mean "a return on an investment" (literal). Meaning if you spent $100 then $100.05 is considered "a ROI" (Return on Investment). ================================= While some, like Inaba, when he has been smoking the PR dong seem to think that even a negative ROI ($89.99) is also a ROI. Though most people would call that "A LOSS" in an investment. I think most are using ROI in the best sense where you spent/invested $100, got back the invested money, plus got $100 extra. ================================= Edit 2: And before anyone mentions it.... There are some who consider anything beyond the initial investment being returned as "A ROI". People like Inaba like to use 6+ figure examples for scenarios where someone is only investing a few thousand. No one (in my mind) honestly invests <10,000 expecting a measly 3% return. People who do those kinds of investments usually put up alot larger sums so that the risk vs payoff is pretty good. (Life savings...not your "bitcoin sized" order...) |
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https://tradehill.com/auctionsopinion? has that guy refunded everyone is he making it up to people with free second gen devices is anyone going to participate (the greeeed) He said he was going to auction off Gen 1. I don't recall him saying anything about Gen 2 going up for auction. |
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Its nothing as I see avalon testing some terahashes in eligius in months and keep customers to wait and waste of ROI.
just because avalon did it doesn't make it okay for KnC to do it. Anyone have proof that BFL and Bitfury didn't do it either? A day's testing on release day to prove real world hash rate doesn't seem overboard. However, if KNC do more than a day and don't ship tomorrow and don't stick to their 5% rule, then I think you have a point. A much more pertinent question is why did BFL decide to take so long to ramp up their production rate? Just because someone sound's paranoid and whispers "Mini-rigs in the BFL basement" doesn't mean they are wrong BFL has done it. They even showed videos of it. |
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I guess I feel a bit left out of all the trolling— KNC is now mining on their hardware, while customers wait for it to ship: http://eligius.st/~wizkid057/newstats/userstats.php/17Czc8RVL3FU5T2MLx2zLbRnpfBNgH9vFoThis is, as far as I know, 100% of the KNC hashrate in existence. Pedantically speaking, it means that KNC is violating their 5% commitment. Testing doesn't involve using the production network. Production mining is unlikely to test finding blocks— whereas testnet, or replays of past found blocks are more complete tests. Mining on the mainnet increases the difficulty and takes income from customers who are waiting on units that will be late. Every bit of earlier mining is worth large amounts of future mining due to expected growth. I do not understand why miners keep funding mining hardware companies that mine in competition with their own customers. Mods don't troll. They just tell you what you need to know! |
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good job guys.... quit hating on people that have something inhand to sell today.... 105ghs this week is better than 1TH/s that hasnt been prototyped and is months away in a best case scenario....
It's not hating, it's math. I don't think anyone has any hate for TAV (a miracle by itself). The problem is that the difficulty is correcting at such a sharp rate over such a brief period of time that you have to buy it at a price that is worthwhile in a realistic sense. The returns get squeezed faster than someone slamming on the brakes. |
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Sadly though with the power consumption, even though it's a great design and engineering feat, and major kudos for actually having a product rather than pre-ordered vapourware, anything over 8BTC is unlikely to ever break even for the majority of potential clients.
I'd have to agree. At the next difficulty change 15 BTC will just be too high. |
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I'll be OK with Avalon about the time they send me a check to cover the 250 BTC or so I ended being screwed out of due to deliberately delayed chips.
But I really wish TAV the best of luck. Packaged inside a TAV product is about as close as I'd want to get to anything BitSynCom related from here on out.
while i find your posts offensive more often than not, i wholeheartedly agree with this post. i 'only' lost out on 5 months worth of profit, while them cnuts 'tested' the arse right out of all our rigs - probably in the region of a few hundred BTC. without sounding racist i dont know how yifu can show his bloated face anywhere around here without offering to compensate us for his dishonesty & theivery. As you all may recall form his interview 'he will not be held responsible for financial advice'... i promise you, he WILL if we ever meet. I think you meant "without being racist", rather than "without sounding racist". |
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Finally, Dick Cheney got my email and launched a drone strike! Or The District Attorney got them. Those shifty DA's....  |
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Word to the wise,
Liquidate your chips if you still have them. (If you can't find any Open Manufacturers who are willing to assemble the boards and chips into a productive miner.)
Take a hit, then reset your game plan on whatever is next. Do it now, before everyone starts liquidating gen 1 hardware and it's derivatives.
A ton of BFL hardware that no one wants is about to flood Ebay, BitMit and BitCoinTalk. So you might want to sell now before the prices are driven into the ground. At that point (if you still desire it) you can rebuy hardware no one wants at below their sale price as people compete to get it off their hands.
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