Bitcoin's attraction to informal fallacies reminds me of numerous pseudosciences. Some of the most insightful articles I've read about Bitcoin highlight the community's cultish attitude.
I may know what articles you are alluding to. Or maybe I don't.  Jorge, you are looking at this in the wrong light. Cults and pseudosciences can persist through almost any obstacle. In fact, obstacles typically embolden the followers.
Thus, Bitcoin may survive and thrive for quite a while longer. For all the wrong reasons of course.
Good insight... I believe that there is a chance that the blockchain will be maintained for the next hundred years, if only as a fun challenge. It obviously has been, until now. Will it continue to be? I wouldn't say that it is a good investment, but it is certainly a great gambling game. I believe that the price will drop to zero eventually, but won't dare to guess what it will be one hour from now. I think I understand a bit about the market now, but not not enough to predict the price. For instance, I bet that the Esteemed Colleague who predicted "10$ by mid 2014" was not quite aware of the situation in China. In my view, the Chinese traders may continue their gambling for many months still, and the price may wander between 300$ (or less) to 1200$ (or more), depending mainly on their mood. Some of the above comments are seeming somewhat bullish, especially coming from a bearish troll like you (even though you have been claiming neutrality). For example, suggesting some day it will be zero and that the block chain will likely last for 100 years.... It is doubtful that anyone here is investing in BTC beyond 5 years, anyhow... surely we account for the long term prosperity and we account that we may need to reassess our BTC investment in a few years, but when push comes to shove, only a few people would just set any such volatile investment for more than 5 years without reassessing it from time to time. After so many months of looking at bitcoin and making various analyses, you are likely converting bullish, but you do NOT want to admit it. You likely understand and realize that as time passes, and the fundamentals do NOT really get undermined in any meaningful way, the odds become greater and greater and greater that the price is going to skyrocket upward rather than to crash downward.. and even you seem to be implying the possibility of 3x returns... which is fairly decent for any investment. Of course, the passage of time will tell the direction of BTC prices and whether Jorge ever buys a bitcoin. You are quite a match for Jorge.  Jorge and me, we are internet frienemies...   |
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I'm betting on an altcoin eventually supplanting Bitcoin, possibly as soon as the next bubble phase. Ripple is a strong candidate.
Good luck to you and Mah87 as the pillar ripple holders - but remember prisoners' dilemna. |
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Bitcoin's attraction to informal fallacies reminds me of numerous pseudosciences. Some of the most insightful articles I've read about Bitcoin highlight the community's cultish attitude.
I may know what articles you are alluding to. Or maybe I don't. Jorge, you are looking at this in the wrong light. Cults and pseudosciences can persist through almost any obstacle. In fact, obstacles typically embolden the followers.
Thus, Bitcoin may survive and thrive for quite a while longer. For all the wrong reasons of course.
Good insight... I believe that there is a chance that the blockchain will be maintained for the next hundred years, if only as a fun challenge. It obviously has been, until now. Will it continue to be? I wouldn't say that it is a good investment, but it is certainly a great gambling game. I believe that the price will drop to zero eventually, but won't dare to guess what it will be one hour from now. I think I understand a bit about the market now, but not not enough to predict the price. For instance, I bet that the Esteemed Colleague who predicted "10$ by mid 2014" was not quite aware of the situation in China. In my view, the Chinese traders may continue their gambling for many months still, and the price may wander between 300$ (or less) to 1200$ (or more), depending mainly on their mood. Some of the above comments are seeming somewhat bullish, especially coming from a bearish troll like you (even though you have been claiming neutrality). For example, suggesting some day it will be zero and that the block chain will likely last for 100 years.... It is doubtful that anyone here is investing in BTC beyond 5 years, anyhow... surely we account for the long term prosperity and we account that we may need to reassess our BTC investment in a few years, but when push comes to shove, only a few people would just set any such volatile investment for more than 5 years without reassessing it from time to time. After so many months of looking at bitcoin and making various analyses, you are likely converting bullish, but you do NOT want to admit it. You likely understand and realize that as time passes, and the fundamentals do NOT really get undermined in any meaningful way, the odds become greater and greater and greater that the price is going to skyrocket upward rather than to crash downward.. and even you seem to be implying the possibility of 3x returns... which is fairly decent for any investment. Of course, the passage of time will tell the direction of BTC prices and whether Jorge ever buys a bitcoin. |
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It's a ponzi.
It's a pyramid.
There is no intrinsic value.
...
I should not go to bed now
we cannot go to bed the next 8 hours are critical I feel compelled to finish this sentence...... "the next 8 hours are critical"...... to bitcoin's rest of life... |
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I watched the video yesterday. Yes, it is a very nice presentation. It's good that he avoids the exaggerated sales hype of most bitcoin enthusiasts. However it seems he has been listening from one ear only, as he barely mentions some of the problems, or omits them altogether. Like the impossibility of correcting mistakes or thefts. But, well, you can't expect an old man to properly understand such a new thing, can you? At one point he says that bitcoin is great because it has no rich bankers buying out government. Is he aware of KnC buying their way into the Bitcoin Foundation, and "electing" their investor/friend Brock Pierce to the board of directors? He is an old man but it is not right to say that he does not properly understand bitcoin. This guy gave a 1 hour plus lecture on bitcoin. Try doing that if one does not know about the subject. If you think that you can offer a more balance view and you know more than him, try doing a video or at least write a paper to present your case? It would be more helpful than giving comments which are often IMHO distractions from the main subject. Whether Jorge is a professor or NOT, he has already demonstrated in his nearly 4,000 posts here that he is more than capable of stringing along a series of irrelevant points and building upon them to the extent to which they begin to seem almost relevant. In other words, I would NOT mix up quantity with quality, and Jorge surely seems to be capable of producing quantity.. He could probably carry out a 24 hour marathon series of presentation of irrelevance, just to prove the point that he is NOT at a loss of words and that he is UP to the challenge to show his presentation prowess (problem will be to recognize whether there is anything meaningful related to BTC contained therein). I did some research and seems Jorge Stolfi is a University level professor and researcher in computer science. He een has a wikipedia page for him: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jorge_StolfiConsidering his account is not a fake one, would be interesting see his technical opinions about the bitcoin protocol, but he keeps acting like an academic version of the fallllling guy.  The reason that I referred to Jorge's "professor" status in a snarky way is because it does (and should) NOT matter whether one is a professor or a snotty nosed 5 year old in order to post decent ideas in this forum. So it is an irrelevant distraction at best or an inappropriate attempt to appeal to authority in distracting people into giving him more credibility than he deserves. In essence, it should NOT matter, too much, whether he is who he claims to be. In other words, the ideas of his posts should stand on their own, without any need to appeal to authority, and surely some people build their credibility in these kinds of forums through their various past posts. Don't get me wrong b/c I believe that every once in a while Jorge brings up good points and has fair and reasoned input... and other times Jorge, like any troll, can add some interesting entertainment value to the thread; however, his frequent misrepresentations (and sometimes appearing to be purposeful) actually undermines, in my thinking, the value of his other once in a while decent posts. In this regard, sometimes we, as posters, become so Jorge distracted that we either fail or neglect to adequately address or even to recognize other areas in which we could be more meaningfully focusing our energies towards bitcoin evangelism, marketing and/or other improvements. By the way, Evangelism means to spread the good word about bitcoin - which is NOT necessarily based on religious or cultist adherence, even though the word, evangelism, is frequently associated in such religious contexts. |
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He is an old man but it is not right to say that he does not properly understand bitcoin. This guy gave a 1 hour plus lecture on bitcoin. Try doing that if one does not know about the subject.present your case? It would be more helpful than giving comments which are often IMHO distractions from the main subject.
Sorry if the sarcasm was not clear; you must not have seen what people wrote here about me. I would like to offer you my public apology, Jorge, for my characterization of you as 'an old dog who won't learn a new trick'. It really wasn't fair or particularly accurate, and, in retrospect, I would like to think my rhetorical skills are good enough that I could have made my argument without the need for that characterization. You have my deepest apologies, and, in the future I will strive to keep my arguments at a less personal level. Good luck!!! You have proven to be a fairly emotional kind of poster, so far from what I have seen. |
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I watched the video yesterday. Yes, it is a very nice presentation. It's good that he avoids the exaggerated sales hype of most bitcoin enthusiasts. However it seems he has been listening from one ear only, as he barely mentions some of the problems, or omits them altogether. Like the impossibility of correcting mistakes or thefts. But, well, you can't expect an old man to properly understand such a new thing, can you? At one point he says that bitcoin is great because it has no rich bankers buying out government. Is he aware of KnC buying their way into the Bitcoin Foundation, and "electing" their investor/friend Brock Pierce to the board of directors? He is an old man but it is not right to say that he does not properly understand bitcoin. This guy gave a 1 hour plus lecture on bitcoin. Try doing that if one does not know about the subject. If you think that you can offer a more balance view and you know more than him, try doing a video or at least write a paper to present your case? It would be more helpful than giving comments which are often IMHO distractions from the main subject. Whether Jorge is a professor or NOT, he has already demonstrated in his nearly 4,000 posts here that he is more than capable of stringing along a series of irrelevant points and building upon them to the extent to which they begin to seem almost relevant. In other words, I would NOT mix up quantity with quality, and Jorge surely seems to be capable of producing quantity.. He could probably carry out a 24 hour marathon series of presentation of irrelevance, just to prove the point that he is NOT at a loss of words and that he is UP to the challenge to show his presentation prowess (problem will be to recognize whether there is anything meaningful related to BTC contained therein). Professor or not, this guy is talented, in an unusual way - making his points in the discussion seems relevant and important when they are really distractions. Edit: I remember during my university days, I had encountered such professors. When asked a question, instead of giving a direct answer, he would beat around the bush, hoping to confuse me so that I will give up asking. At work today, this is what some people do too, just so they can get out of the difficult situation. Even politicians, I observe do the same thing. Well, I have tried to do the same but sadly, I do not possess this skill. Exactly... Jorge seems to be well skilled in his ability to carry out non-substantive rhetoric. |
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700BTC buy in finex.
I feel pretty confident. Thank fuck I took in a long position yesterday at $465.
 Looks like net=0 on that. Sell of 683 followed by a Buy of 683. Unlikely its just a coincidence. Why would anyone sell at 691 $491 and then buy at 697 $497... unless they thought that there deliberate dump did NOT work, and they were going to miss the train?... but looks way too soon in time (only 2 minutes between the sell and the buy) Edit: Woops.. .I meant $491 and $497 respectively... so fixed it |
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That gif reminds me of the bubbles, bubbles, bubbles gif (with the asian girl). |
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I watched the video yesterday. Yes, it is a very nice presentation. It's good that he avoids the exaggerated sales hype of most bitcoin enthusiasts. However it seems he has been listening from one ear only, as he barely mentions some of the problems, or omits them altogether. Like the impossibility of correcting mistakes or thefts. <snip> It has probably already been discussed, but is theft really bad? I mean, most of the times it's immoral, but evolution doesn't have anything to do with morality. In a certain way you can see it as survival of the fittest. If hackers are smart enough to steal bitcoin it sucks if it happens to you, but bitcoin also gives the opportunity to store them extremely safe, unable to hack. If a hacker was able to crack the complete bitcoin code, he should be awarded because honest money should be more or less indestructible. who gives a shit, put the hackers in jail. Did you forget the sarcasm tag or are you serious? (honest question) if you find the hacker that stole all of the mybitcoins bitcoins..... you gana put a scammer tag on his avatar and call it even? are you serious? you steal other peoples monies and you risk jail time, end of story. That's what we're talking about!!!!!!!! Adam = NO more Mr. Nice Guy |
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I watched the video yesterday. Yes, it is a very nice presentation. It's good that he avoids the exaggerated sales hype of most bitcoin enthusiasts. However it seems he has been listening from one ear only, as he barely mentions some of the problems, or omits them altogether. Like the impossibility of correcting mistakes or thefts. But, well, you can't expect an old man to properly understand such a new thing, can you? At one point he says that bitcoin is great because it has no rich bankers buying out government. Is he aware of KnC buying their way into the Bitcoin Foundation, and "electing" their investor/friend Brock Pierce to the board of directors? He is an old man but it is not right to say that he does not properly understand bitcoin. This guy gave a 1 hour plus lecture on bitcoin. Try doing that if one does not know about the subject. If you think that you can offer a more balance view and you know more than him, try doing a video or at least write a paper to present your case? It would be more helpful than giving comments which are often IMHO distractions from the main subject. Whether Jorge is a professor or NOT, he has already demonstrated in his nearly 4,000 posts here that he is more than capable of stringing along a series of irrelevant points and building upon them to the extent to which they begin to seem almost relevant. In other words, I would NOT mix up quantity with quality, and Jorge surely seems to be capable of producing quantity.. He could probably carry out a 24 hour marathon series of presentation of irrelevance, just to prove the point that he is NOT at a loss of words and that he is UP to the challenge to show his presentation prowess (problem will be to recognize whether there is anything meaningful related to BTC contained therein). |
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yes, I was just testing it to buy a ticket and it works like a charm, today there is plenty of places where to spend Litecoin, more than what Bitcoin had last year, beside I think that Litecoin's price will grow bigger and faster than Bitcoin's price, it is more likely that we see LTC @ $50 than BTC at $5000 YES... I am sorry that you lost so much by investing in litecoin.. but it could be possible to recuperate some of your losses, if you pump it a little and people buy into such pump attempts. Good luck with that. |
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i need a chill pill or something.
*all mess up / pissed off*
my mother inlaw, dropped off her dog here ( what a bitch -_- ), and my wife thinks we can keep it.
so mad.
until next time.
Doggies are supposed to be soothing little creatures. So, CALM THE FUCK DOWN!!!!! I love that expression, b/c it seems to cause the opposite result of what it proclaims, especially when in ALL CAPS. |
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Does betting a kidney qualify for "blood in the streets"? IMO, it's really bullish! I think only if I lose... I'll have to consult the oracle about that, though. That would be a really stupid bet, and if we were being genuine in our posts, that wager should be conceded as an exaggeration. |
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Yes, I may used strong language from time to time, but that is NOT the same as personal attacks
Very rude language, often accompanied by circular reasoning and nearly all other kinds of (evil, but very clumsy) sophistry. The constant use of sophistry is nothing more than a perfidious form of trolling. Cynically, but also characteristically for (advanced) trolling, you are very, very fast accusing other people to troll. /ignore Yes... you seem to have arrived at some made-up definition regarding what is trolling and to whom it could arguably apply... though really sounds as if you are swimming in a fantasy world of your own making.. In reality, Language allows for expression and emphasis in various regards, and need NOT distract from the substance of the discussion. Accordingly, if language suggests that someone is misleading or being disingenuous in their posts, there could be better ways to accomplish these kinds of communications to call them out. If you are so easily distracted by my creative or NOT so creative use of language, then maybe it is better that you shut off your viewpoint and your exposure to various ideas in order that you will be able to better deal with the world as you understand it to be. Hopefully your adaptive measures will help you in the long run in better understanding and dealing with the world as it is, rather than how you wish it were. Good luck with that. |
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Poor guy. Ok! Now think about the same news but interchanging the husband with the wife....is it still funny? inb4: omg! rape rape! sexism! women are opressed! etcetcetc.The reason that the first story is funny is b/c there is a lot of irony in it, and the more likely scenario would occur with the guy dominating and forcing the sex... ... Anyhow, probably neither one of them is funny if they are merely attempting to equate biology and sociology.. and to teach some kind of gender lesson. There are reasons both sociologically and biologically that men and women play differing roles that are likely much beyond this thread (even though it is possible for bitcoin to touch on a wide array of topics). |
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thanks...
but
I am still unclear
Does this mean that of the funds you have "lost"
25% buying high/hypothetical losses = So this means you have not actually lost anything with this 25% then ? ....yet and you say that part of the 25% was hypothetical i.e trades you could have made if you had perfect prevision?or were trading with hindsight? (which means that you did not actually lose anything there either?
25% bad trading - does this mean that you consistently nipped away at your net worth through bad trades? (did you keep buying high and selling low?) or did you make leveraged losses (or both?)
Also of the money you have lost that only cover 50% how did you lose the other 50%?
Also it does make all of the difference... it is the difference between saying "Bitcoin, will lose you money" and "I made some bad decisions/had bad luck trading Bitcoin" with the latter statement you could replace Bitcoin with "gold, silver, forex, stocks, etc etc i,e any trading instrument" and with the former, you are making a statement regarding Bitcoin itself.
You make the statement about loss of confidence in the Bitcoin market, is this a personal statement?
Having bought BTC a fair time ago... and held all the way through several previous rallies, and during ath and continuing to hold today, I would say that my confidence in the Bitcoin market is stronger than ever before... for many obvious reasons... I for one am experiencing no such loss of confidence...
May I ask have you experience in trading pre Bitcoin? short term trading or mid term trading?
Empowering: approximately when did you start buying BTC, and approximately what is your average per BTC buy in cost (including any admin/transaction fees)? $75 and under (though I did buy over that price but only to buy into certain alts here and there) (I may consider buying again in low $400 but if not then I am happy with what I have, and I am considering liquidating some of my alts back into BTC) I am going to attempt to resist developing "BTC buy-in price envy" |
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thanks...
but
I am still unclear
Does this mean that of the funds you have "lost"
25% buying high/hypothetical losses = So this means you have not actually lost anything with this 25% then ? ....yet and you say that part of the 25% was hypothetical i.e trades you could have made if you had perfect prevision?or were trading with hindsight? (which means that you did not actually lose anything there either?
25% bad trading - does this mean that you consistently nipped away at your net worth through bad trades? (did you keep buying high and selling low?) or did you make leveraged losses (or both?)
Also of the money you have lost that only cover 50% how did you lose the other 50%?
Also it does make all of the difference... it is the difference between saying "Bitcoin, will lose you money" and "I made some bad decisions/had bad luck trading Bitcoin" with the latter statement you could replace Bitcoin with "gold, silver, forex, stocks, etc etc i,e any trading instrument" and with the former, you are making a statement regarding Bitcoin itself.
You make the statement about loss of confidence in the Bitcoin market, is this a personal statement?
Having bought BTC a fair time ago... and held all the way through several previous rallies, and during ath and continuing to hold today, I would say that my confidence in the Bitcoin market is stronger than ever before... for many obvious reasons... I for one am experiencing no such loss of confidence...
May I ask have you experience in trading pre Bitcoin? short term trading or mid term trading?
Empowering: approximately when did you start buying BTC, and approximately what is your average per BTC buy in cost (including any admin/transaction fees)? your avg price is more interesting Jay, you bought your first coins of local bitcoin higher then 1000$ right? Thanks for your interest. My first 1.24 coins cost me $1,500 through Localbitcoins in late November 2013 (which was at $1200 per BTC). Thereafter I was buying in fairly small increments for the next several months, and I ran out of fiat a few times when the prices were lower (such as in the $350s). My average price per BTC including administrative / and transaction costs is currently at about $605. I did have my average cost per BTC down to $595, but then I got a bit excited in the recent $600s in part due to extensive amounts of fiat coming into my bank account (around that time - mostly in June and July). Due to the quantity of my current BTC holdings, I am fairly doubtful that I will be able to bring my average price per BTC down very much in the near future, and I am anticipating some bring my average price per BTC down to be possibilities when BTC prices cross above the trendline or at minimum when BTC prices cross at least 20% above my buy-in price. |
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You mostly seem to be full of shit and talking your book, but since you gave some borderline non-trollish responses, I will respond in turn. If you are disappointed, likely you set up your own false expectations or over invested or failed to have a strategy. Probably, you are just saying that you are disappointed b/c you seem to be trolling us, yet disappointed seems to be an awkward choice of words.. mostly you can be disappointed about yourself, which would make the most sense for a decent context for the use of the word.
short term i am really bearish, mid term stagnating at best, long term the chances are 30:70 against a bitcoin rise...
your odds are stated weirdly... are you saying only 30% chance that bitcoin will rise from it's present price? Actually, the odds seem pretty decent that BTC prices will rise from its present price in the very near future.. less than a month is very likely.. but I am NOT really very certain about these kinds of predictions.. if we are talking about a year or even 5 years, then the odds are pretty fricken high that BTC will rise from its current price.. and there is a matter of quantity and a matter of stability and a matter of considering whether cashing out at any point is appropriate as or after such rise has occurred and people will come to varying conclusions regarding that. with that personal pov, the next time i meet some people to talk about bitcoins i will have to say that i lost a lot of money and maybe now is not a good entry point because more losses are expected
If you lost money, likely it is due to your trading. You do NOT lose money until you cash out, and if you picked unrealistic time lines then maybe you just had a bad strategy or a bad plan. If you want to tell people that you are a stupid-ass fuck up, then that is your choice. Sometimes it would be better to frame the topic a little more objectively and a little bit beyond your own narrow experiences (especially if you made some stupid ass mistakes b/c you were greedy or if you just merely had some bad luck). In other words, bitcoin is far from over,and if you believe that there are going to be further losses, you and your friends may well miss the train or being running after it.
there really has to be a rise soon or mass market adoption will fail, cause everyone will consider bitcoin as too dangerous or will forget about it
Bitcoin does NOT appear to be in such a perilous stage as you seem to be describing it to be. Yes, there may be additional decreases in price and price may possibly (though seemingly unlikely) sink into the $300s again, but even that would NOT be a death knell to bitcoin absent some further negative developments above and beyond downward price manipulation. i will hodl what is left but i will not consider buying more and i will explicitly make aware of the danger of losing all investments...i prefer that they say "why didn't you force me to buy" than "because of you i lost a shitload of money"
I would NOT force or attempt to persuade anyone.. If you want to be helpful to people, you merely need to provide them some information and allow them to come to their own conclusion(s) regarding how and whether to proceed. i tried to be really polite sound reasonable (if you like it or not)...and still you managed to call me piece of shit? well...fuck you You tried to be polite? Well, you seemed to have NOT been trying very hard, and you have little self control, no wonder you are having troubles with your BTC investments. Regarding my comments towards you, I was attempting to be helpful to you and to people in like situations. Too bad that you took my various comments so personally.  |
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thanks...
but
I am still unclear
Does this mean that of the funds you have "lost"
25% buying high/hypothetical losses = So this means you have not actually lost anything with this 25% then ? ....yet and you say that part of the 25% was hypothetical i.e trades you could have made if you had perfect prevision?or were trading with hindsight? (which means that you did not actually lose anything there either?
25% bad trading - does this mean that you consistently nipped away at your net worth through bad trades? (did you keep buying high and selling low?) or did you make leveraged losses (or both?)
Also of the money you have lost that only cover 50% how did you lose the other 50%?
Also it does make all of the difference... it is the difference between saying "Bitcoin, will lose you money" and "I made some bad decisions/had bad luck trading Bitcoin" with the latter statement you could replace Bitcoin with "gold, silver, forex, stocks, etc etc i,e any trading instrument" and with the former, you are making a statement regarding Bitcoin itself.
You make the statement about loss of confidence in the Bitcoin market, is this a personal statement?
Having bought BTC a fair time ago... and held all the way through several previous rallies, and during ath and continuing to hold today, I would say that my confidence in the Bitcoin market is stronger than ever before... for many obvious reasons... I for one am experiencing no such loss of confidence...
May I ask have you experience in trading pre Bitcoin? short term trading or mid term trading?
Empowering: approximately when did you start buying BTC, and approximately what is your average per BTC buy in cost (including any admin/transaction fees)? |
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