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So does anybody know if LN will be implemented in the Segwit? This will affect the price significantly.
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I just discovered on Youtube that there are some sites and some tools that help people when to "pump" and when to "dump". I saw from at least one title of the videos named as"pump and dump with the whale". I think these tools and sites had a lot to do with the price volatility.
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Scaling issue is entirely political/business/economic/social.
Technically, there is not a problem. Dash just released a roadmap with 400MB blocks. Chew on that.
How quick can they process one block? So after 1000 blocks, the file may have a max size of 400GB? Dash is a new coin created after Bitcoin, si it has the advantage to use more robust solutions. Whereas Bitcoin, it is kind of stuck to the current basic infrastructure. It is like building a new subway or road system is always easier in a brand-new city. |
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For me, I don't see any intrinsic value the way or the normal economist and from lay man point of view because its a virtual currency the only way there is will be an intrinsic worth is where we have physical coins which is made of gold and in this case, only few people have that. However, the intrinsic value I see, is the fact that, the 1btc today which worth above $2500 if I should have the physical coin 3 years ago does not worth anything close to that and that's just by keeping it at home. What other intrinsic value would anyone wish for?
I think most people think about "intrinsic value" as monetary unit. Ex: the intrinsic value of a Call option is the market price - the strike price. |
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Intrinsic value isn't only things people "need" but things where the value comes innately from the object. You can think of intrinsic value as a synonym for "utility." Does something have value because it is useful, or is its value arbitrary? For example, silver is used in far more industrial applications than a metal like gold. Silver has more intrinsic value because it is useful for things people need to do, whereas gold's value is more arbitrary. It's just valuable because everyone agrees it is. (This is not a perfect example since gold has some industrial or medical uses, but overall it is a generally good illustration of intrinsic vs. arbitrary value.)
Then does air have any intrinsic? We need it to survive. And just thought of this - if 1 satoshi = 1 penny, tten 1 BTC = $1M. |
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At today's price of $2500, if Bitcoin price grew by 50% and Apple stock grew by 10% per year consistently for the next 10 years, their market cap would almost match at $1.6T. That would give Bitcoin a value of almost $100,000 given that the total supply of it is about 19.7M.
(The two big assumptions to make this happened are the 50% vs 10% annual growth and the consistent increase for the next 10 years.)
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Intrinsic is defined as natural, inborn or innate. The traditionalists dont see BTC as having intrinsic value but what it has is utility. From that it has developed its own circular economy.
Compare that with gold. It's the most precious metal the traditionalists love because it has intrinsic value, it also has utility, has a circular economy and its scarce.
As a Bitcoiner you have to question their beliefs. Does having intrinsic value really matter if BTC has utility that gives it real value?
You can also go deeper in asking, what is value?
Yes, the keyword is "utility". I almost forgot about it from the Economics classes I took.  I found one of the references in the video: https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/you-say-bitcoin-has-no-intrinsic-value-twenty-two-reasons-to-think-again-1399454061/Bitcoin intrinsic value properties:
1. It transcends nations, politics, religions, cultures and regulations. These vary from country to country in ways that may seem bizarre to populations out of its own borders. While one may believe that governments always have their best interests at heart, it may be wise to see that knife cuts both ways. Some drugs are banned in certain states or countries that are allowed in others. Bibles are banned from purchase is some countries. Religion, custom, dogma, superstitions prevent various purchases based on man-made borders that continually shift over time. These policies tend to be created by limited segments of populations that can be self-serving. If one happens to be included in the “correct” political party, race, religion, items can be purchased or outlawed. It’s all opinion.
The US government bans online gambling. Is this a moral decision? Many of the same governments think it morally acceptable to hold their own state-lotteries. The lotteries hold significantly worse odds and tends to target those in the community that are the least educated and most susceptible to poverty, alcohol abuse, and have a generally poor understanding of mathematical probability. Many have gone on to say that lotteries are simply “a tax on people bad at math”. Many argue that this is a double standard of governments which prevents them from taking the moral high ground.
2. It requires no trust. (in the short term). It can’t be counterfeit. There is a record of who owns it (by wallet id) and its validity is publicly known. It requires no central clearing house. With any other currency, one must trust the government from which it is issued will continue to maintain its value by not “overprinting” to pay for its own mismanagement. You can send it globally without having to trust anybody. This is not true with any state issued country, bank, credit card company, or anybody else. Volatility and long-term trust is still building, but when one transacts in bitcoin, nobody gets in-between sender and receiver unless agreed beforehand. It’s permission-less.
3. It can be transparent. By making wallet IDs public, one can track the flow of money through other transparent wallets. You cannot do that with any other currency. You can use this feature to do things like monitor your children’s use. This can make obsolete entire industries that are built solely on the fact that money can be hidden, disguised, cheated, etc. These can also happen to bitcoin, but pressure can be applied by the people to make it transparent and accountable when needed. Auditors may insist on it for compliance. The list of possibilities of this intrinsically valuable feature can scarcely be imagined.
4. It can be programmable. Plans for product layers on top of bitcoin to further its use to become spendable based on contracts that can be programmed to complete with built in variables, or be valid to purchase only certain items. Insist your college bound kid buys books and not beer for example. Or based on GPS in a cell phone, you could send your kids off shopping and it could be programmed to be spendable only in certain stores.
5. It can require multi-signatures. Wallets containing the currency can be set to only unlock with more than one signing key. This will leave hackers and thieves frustrated. Try doing that with your grandpa’s money. It is an intrinsic piece of bitcoin technology.
6. It can be spent over the internet without a bank account, credit report, identification, and pre-permissions. Prepaid credit cards can do some of these functions, but only to locations and countries that accept credit cards. This list of locations in countries outside of the US is actually decreasing with the amount of fraud in the networks. Technically, the only item limiting of bitcoin is the merchant’s acceptance of it. Given the natural law of least resistance, these limitations could erode as more merchants around the world realize the potential savings. The network effect will continue to work its magic.
7. It can store irrevocable and time stamped records of transactions. Absolute clarity of events and their corresponding order is available in the block chain. Proof of ownership and purchase can be established without a third party. The trusted and reliable distributed ledger cannot reasonably be altered (barring a massive scale network attack which becomes less likely as the network grows).
8. It allows you to keep your identity from being stolen.Bitcoin is nobody’s debt. Paying with bitcoin isn’t a “promise to pay”. It is payment in full. This could potentially reduces fraud related expenses on massive scale. http://www.statisticbrain.com/credit-card-fraud-statistics/ There is no need for a merchant to get bank information or any other kind of personal information that can be later used in identity theft.
9. It allows movement across borders. It can defeat government issued capital controls. The same governments try to hold their own citizens “hostage” monetarily by outlawing movement of money outside its own borders. Ask any citizen from any country ravaged by hyperinflation if this is important. Could it be possible that it might ever become important in the USA? If you can foresee the day people will be clamoring to get out of the US dollar, where do you think they are going to go? Ask Argentina.
10. The same wallet can be used anywhere in the world with a connection to the internet. As the money exists on the global ledger, all you need is the key. This can be memorized, or written on any piece of paper – even confined inside a microdot the size of the period that ends this sentence. Some old time gold bugs say you can’t bribe the border guards with bitcoin like you can gold. In the future, border guards will have cellphones and internet access too. We aren’t living in the 1960s Vietnam or before any longer.
11. It can move independently of banking rules, laws, and restrictions. The people in the USA may think this unimportant in their bubble view of the world, but is this also true of the 150 or so currencies and countries with terrible track records? Which other currency enjoys this property? Will enough of the world outside of the US believe it to be so? Is it hard to imagine the properties of bitcoin being intrinsically valued by populations subjected to terrible economic policies? It only takes a billion people in India fed up with corruption to want an escape mechanism out of the control of the system. At that point, they won’t give a hoot about what some American pundit said on “bubble vision” about intrinsic value.
12. It can be used to resist corruption. If the citizens stand up united and demand a transparent government, they can use bitcoin to follow the money in the same way governments use powers at their disposal for surveillance on their own populations. In today’s world money corrupts. In tomorrow’s maybe it will become vice-versa. Let’s see if 86% of the world agrees that any tool that makes less opportunity for corruption is valuable.
13. It can be made to settle contracts without other parties. You can program it to settle contracts based on certain events such as date, proof of ownership, death, or a host of other factors that can be validated programmatically without a third party to validate if the conditions were met. It can be used as a record keeping asset tag, and proof of ownership. Ownership of the private key to the bitcoin is by definition, the owner. In addition, it can be the source record of ownership for property title, copyrights, and intellectual property that transcends borders and locally interpreted laws. In effect, the records become the de-facto “single source of truth”. The currency itself is globally accessible proof of ownership. Can these functions and properties be reasonably argued to be valuable beyond the currency itself?
14. There are no age requirements. Paying for items in a global world requires bank accounts. Bank accounts are legal properties that can only be established with those of legal age (18 in most locations). There is no minimum age requirement to pay for items globally using bitcoin. How many people under 18 have cell phones, AND need to spend money with no credit card. Smart businesses have started to recognize this intrinsically valuable potential.
15. It is more difficult to be used as surveillance. The main attributes of money are often quoted these days, but one attribute is rarely mentioned. Money has become surveillance. As people continue to learn of the horrors of the NSA and other government efforts to spy on every aspect of their lives, it only takes one person drunk with power to make all the well-intention sounding policies reverse into shocking horror. One government required Jews to register themselves for easy identification, which was then used to “dispose” of them.
Now one’s religion, race, gender, national origin, political party, age, place of work, address, and much more can be determined by how and where one spends their money. To those who think they have nothing to worry about because they are not doing anything wrong, might ask themselves, what did the Jews have to fear during the time they were self-registering? They also were not (generally) doing anything wrong. That’s only one example in a history littered with them. Is the ability to obscure one’s spending habits intrinsically valuable? Is it possible to imagine how much of the population of the world would think it is?
16. Bitcoin as money bandwidth. If one were to transfer value between large companies or nations, much of the world has discovered bitcoin to be a very efficient payment network to do this. If bitcoin was thought of as envelopes to be stuffed with dollars or other currencies for transport, only the size of the envelope itself that contains the dollars inside would be the limiting factor. To increase the ability and usefulness of this feature, the envelopes represented in bitcoin price will have to inflate enormously to take on that load. The Federal Reserve and former Vice Presidents have caught on. So has smart Venture Capitalist firms that have a knack for being one step ahead of everybody else.
17. It can be the basis of a new eco system. Right now entire new ecosystems are being built up around the new currency (in use, if not government recognition). Gold towns sprang up into eco-systems but crashed when the gold veins ran dry. We know exactly how deep the bitcoin well can go and the rate at which it will be found. What other modern day ecosystems are being built because of the intrinsic values of a currency?
18. It can upend centuries-old money monopolies. The strangleholds on monetary policy continue to be held by relatively few extremely wealthy families for centuries. Bitcoin has the possibility to change the paradigm completely. These banks will likely find ways to maintain their power and wealth and there is nothing preventing them from moving into digital currencies to maintain it. However, which other currency has the possibility to change the dynamic? Many in the world will likely place much value in the paradigm shift that is possible. When was the last time a monetary unit threatened to rewrite the rules from the ground up?
19. Democratization of money. An explosive report from a whistleblower from the World Bank reports that all networked banking infrastructure throughout the entire world can be traced back to 12 people who make decisions at the privately controlled US Federal Reserve bank. Consensus driven, public records, and democratization of money made possible by bitcoin, might change the rules.
20. Gives the unbanked population access to banking features they might not otherwise enjoy. As the much smaller digital currency M-Pesa proved, the poverty riddled villages with no access to banking were able to lift themselves out of poverty with simple abilities to pay suppliers and start businesses. With the cross border scale and usability of bitcoin, imagine the same results x 1,000. Are there any national currencies up to this task?
21. It can be extremely hard to steal. Muggers of the future will be at a loss for what to do with the bitcoin they can’t take from your wallet or purse. That money will be no good to them without the private keys to spend it. There likely will no longer be credit cards there was well. Could robbery itself become obsolete? Hackers will soon have a difficult time stealing money from multi-signature wallets.
22. It represents economic freedom. Because of all of the reasons stated above, it might as well be called the currency of freedom. Dictators will hate it. Totalitarian governments will hate it in proportion equal to the amount of corruption the government enjoys. The worst countries for freedom believe that money exist primarily to serve the country and personal ownership of it is just an illusion they can confiscate at will. Banks technically own it as soon it’s deposited. Through court order, government taxation, or inflation, they always get it back. Bitcoin offers some protection. We become our own bank. |
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Some said it will. What do you think?
(The estimated 2017 GDP in the US is $19.4 trillions. If the price of a BTC increases to $1M, with 21M in total supply, the market cap would be $21 trillions. Of course, the $19.4T is in present value and the $21T is in an unknown period of future value.)
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Business Insider CEO Henry Blodget said Bitcoin has no intrinsic value. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxycmMo8Z2oIf Bitcoin has any intrinsic values, then what are they? The author of the video did bring up 10 "intrinsic values". It is very hard to determine if they are intrinsic values or just characteristics. What do you think of all of these? |
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and according to the website https://lightning.network/: "Capable of millions to billions of transactions per second across the network" This is awesome! But this one is definitely not a good news if it is true. I understand the same thing from this news and according to the increase in the block size then new update in the Bitcoin blockchain will result into 4 times more fast , so probably we need to pay minimum fee of 0.0001btc ( which is good indication for the small amount of Bitcoin users ).
But still here we can't sure anything because the main reason is , anyone can claim he did better but reality will came when we use it .
Here already the digibyte coin claiming that Thier network is 40 times more faster then old segwit chain , but I don't think so because Thier not much user of dgb like btc .
Well here instead to get any type of the confusion , wait for last of week in August .
If Bitcoin can effectively solve the scaling issue, that will be a big game changer. |
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I don't see what the advantages of a blockchain on a centralized and closed source environment brings any improvements upon the traditional MySQL database approach to control data. Why even bother?
I have the same doubt too.  |
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I know some companies are working on running blockchain on private network, but how is it decentralized? Isn't it still centralized if their are having their own computers (nodes) doing the validation?
This is what Ethereum offers. They also offer a blockchain template for public access, but much of the purpose of that template is set up for private use in a closed network. With respect to centralize vs. decentralized, i believe you're confusing the purposes of the blockchain with the purpose of bitcoin. Bitcoin, the currency, gains greater purpose as a decentralized network/system. A corporate currency or loyalty program, a voting system, an open ledger for accounting of transactions would all benefit from a blockchain that does have a central authority for control. To your specific example, if a corporation had a truly public ledger (blockchain) they'd enable confidential information (e.g., transactions, revenue, expenses, strategic buying, etc.) to their competition...this would be terrible for business! In this corporate context the blockchain serves to be decentralized from the finance or accounting team within the organization, so a few employees don't have sole visibility into the transactions. The blockchain also offers reduced effort and costs in maintaining the transaction tracking. Does this help explain? Thank you, HabBear. It helps. A concern that I have is that if there are only a handful of uses approving the transactions in a private blockchain, won't it be easier for someone to buy them off if they want to tamper with the transactions history? Perhaps a few admins is better than just one main admin. Also, I know many companies are in the EEA working with Ethereum. Does it benefit the demand for ethers if they are all running on their own blockchain? |
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Just read this article you Jimmy Song - Segwit2x: What you need to know about the 2x Hard Fork (aka 2MB non-Segwit Transaction Capacity per block/8MB Total Block Size Hard Fork) https://medium.com/@jimmysong/segwit2x-what-you-need-to-know-about-the-2mb-hard-fork-In the "What this means for you" section, it mentioned about that we may have Lightning Network soon after 2 months. "Practically speaking, as long as Segwit2x releases something that works for mining by July 21, we should get Segwit on the network around August 23. That means that Lightning Network transactions should be available soon after and everyone will be watching to see if block congestion and transaction fees reduce." Am I interpreting it wrong? How many transactions per second can it precesses? How fast will it be compared to what we currently have now? |
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Thanks! Welcome to the crypto world mate.  Hang on because it's a turbulent ride. It goes up like crazy sometimes and at other times fall at full speed by gravity.  Just enjoy and have fun. Let's wish for a happy ending. I'm breaking even now. Waiting to get some paper capital gain. |
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2. There was a large spike in bitcoin searches according to google, which means the price growth has attracted new people.
Mind to share how to access this info on Google? Do you remember the figures of the last couple times of searches so that I have a benchmark to use? |
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Relax anyway even if the price goes under $2000 (or try to!). As long as the Developers and Miners can work out a solution to the scaling problem (maybe they can and are), then Bitcoin will be just fine given some time. Bitcoin is famous for its HUGE volatility, so consider buying it and HODLING for as long as it takes.
Even if you buy at $2500, and BTC goes down to (say) $1700, HODL ON! The price would likely go back up to record highs (again, given time and resolution of the BTC scaling problem).
IF they do solve the problem, and BTC goes down to (say) $1200 - $1500, then it's probably a GREAT buying opportunity (but do not speculate with money you cannot afford to lose).
Good advice. My concern about scaling is that Segwit can only ease 60% of the bunden. That is only 2.5X more transactions in a block (if the difficult level adjustment is set to solve a block in 10 minutes). Even with the Segwit2X, the combined effect is only 5 times more transactions that can be processed. The average transactions that Bitcoin blockchain would processed would be only 15 to 16 per second compares to VISA's peak capacity of around 56,000 transactions per second. If Bitcoin wants to be accepted by more people, the developers have to do better than what Segwit can offer. It is very interesting on how this will play out in the future. I am sure once the scaling issue is solved and when more countries start to regular it, big banks will start to invest in it and the price will shot up 100X or more in the 10 years. I am not a methematician so please correct my analysis if I am wrong. |
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Im a bit confused sir about your question because of a normal phenomenon, I mean we all know that phenomenon is not normal? Or something lime that but anyways, Yes, in a positive way, cause we all know that the bitcoin fork is near, and it's just normal to have this price drop
What I meant was if the price flucturate (up or down) of 35% to 50%+ in one day is not something that happens once in a blue moon for Bitcoin or Ethereurm. Price volatility is normal process for bitcoin you should now that by now. When did you see that price is constantly climbing up without any dumps? This was just minor price correction and at the moment the price is more or less around 2500. Nothing to worry about or panic for, just relax.
I am holding it for the long term so I am not as worry. However, seeing the market going down on 95% of the cryptos for a consecutive of 3 days is no fun. It seems that Bitcoin is maturing because it is relatively stabler than other coins; the volality is not as large as others. That is a good sign. |
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The crypto market is recovering from the drop with a current total market cap of $103.6B.
Hopefully, the historic trend will continue - that the price goes beyond the previous peak before it dropped.
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I know some companies are working on running blockchain on private network, but how is it decentralized? Isn't it still centralized if their are having their own computers (nodes) doing the validation?
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