I am trying to get my project off the ground and at the same time promote an interesting idea like asstets-otc. Damn, now I feel like I have stepped in to a pile of polar bear shit  Do not get me wrong. I do not say that asstes-otc is crap idea, not at all. I really like the idea. The drama is the crap here  It would be good if you could run your own assets on your own server. Then you dont have to rely on any third party. What is needed is an open source securities platform you can simply clone for your own use. Just want to let you know, if you do your own assets directly you are the exchange and the broker. I would make sure you talk to your lawyer first if you want to take this path. You should do that anyway even if there is a third party exchange or broker. Surely you consulted your lawyer before you listed on glbse as well ? I did not list on GLBSE. GLBSE listed on GLBSE. They were and are the broker. That is why if anyone wants to sue anyone they have to sue GLBSE. That doesnt make sense. Does this thread have to get derailed every few posts? |
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...You guys deliver him a perfect excuse to not going further.
Has anyone not thought that most of those payment addresses that received the "double payment" is Nefario's own addresses? I have had a teller give me some extra money before. The reason why I give it back is because the till count will be off and that teller would have to makeup the extra money the teller gave out. I don't see how this is not the same for Nefario. He can go forward. If he does not have any bitcoins left, he can start to release the assets without any problem to asset issuers and claim codes to users. He can also be contacting all those he sent double payment and ask to receive the funds back, for those that don't he can make up the difference with his money, just like they do in the real world. |
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@Garr255, I know you cannot pay the divs via GLBSE, but could you maybe publish every weekend what should have been paid for the week? You know, so we would eventually know how much to claim at the end... Or has it already been being published, in some place I missed? You mean how many bitcoins have been accumulating since GLBSE's closure or the amount paid before GLBSE closed? |
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After reading this very long log it is clear that Neferio has the support of the majority of the shareholders of Bitcoin Global and that they want it "closed" and turned into a legal operation. Theymos was in the minority and failed on his vote to remove Nefario as CEO.
How did you reach that conclusion? [05/10/2012 16:56:18] <theymos> Aye.
[05/10/2012 16:56:18] <chrisrico> aye
[05/10/2012 16:56:21] <shareholder2> yes
[05/10/2012 16:56:22] <shareholder1> aye
[05/10/2012 16:56:24] <da2ce796> -
[05/10/2012 16:56:27] <shareholder4> aye
[05/10/2012 16:56:42] <nefario> I vote against
[05/10/2012 16:56:57] <shareholder3_> aye, as long as this leads to a solution that avoids that I get into any sort of legal trouble (yes, thats selfish, but that is my p.o.v)
That's 5 for the motion, 1 maybe for, and 2 against (including nefario, with 23% of shares). Even with CHM's vote, we didn't have enough support to get rid of Nefario. Have the entire logs been posted? |
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So people should not send back bitcoins from the double payments because there's no reason to believe he'll pay back because he can't cover the loss of the double payment? Is that serious? He has been paying out balances so far, why wouldn't he pursue that? If he wanted to steal those funds he wouldn't have returned any balance at all.
As for screwing BitcoinGlobal shareholders and closing GLBSE without warning... yes, I completely agree it's a very bad move. It doesn't mean he's gone and won't do anything. For once a website suddenly closing isn't running away with users funds. We have every reason to be dissatisfied, but I see no reason to think he will not attempt to process all balances as best as he can. For what his best worth...
The logs of his meeting with BitcoinGlobal shareholders screamed of a court order or chickening out in the face of possible legal issues. It doesn't seems he's closing GLBSE for the heck of it. He claims not having a choice.
People that received double payments have already made up their minds if they will pay back or not. GLBSE will not receive 100% of those double payments back and the people responsible (Nefario and the people that let Nefario have so much control over GLBSE) for the screw up need to reach in their own pockets to make it right. If I received a double payment I would send the extra back, but only when GLBSE sends me an email telling me: (1) they made a double payment, (2) how much I had in my account when it closed, and (3) contain a link to a form on GLBSE that gives a unique bitcoin payment address that will prove that I returned the coins. |
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Do you think Nefario will actually cover the loss of bitcoins for those that will not return the funds?
The partners have indicated that BG doesn't have sufficient reserves to cover the whole amount which was double paid, and I think that we can safely assume that Nefario isn't going to cover anything out of his own pocket. They can go get a credit card, buy some bitcoins, and send them to the GLBSE users. What kind of Mickey Mouse game is this that 7-8 people can't come up with $12,000?  |
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As for doing it competently, I cannot say. But the wording on GLBSE.com was pretty clear that asset balances along with email + BTC address would be relayed to issuers.
It is incredibly slow but so far he's been processing accounts. I don't have any reason to believe he would not then start processing sending data to issuers like he's supposed to.
Lets look at the broken promises: Nefario shut down GLBSE without warning. Nefario erroneously paid people almost twice as much as their claim. The partners of BitcoinGlobal will take no responsibility for poor management of user accounts. Then why do you believe Nefario will pay back the total bitcoin claim amounts and give them their asset information? Do you think Nefario will actually cover the loss of bitcoins for those that will not return the funds? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKgPY1adc0A |
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You haven't brought any argument so far other that if someone hands you more cash than intended, you consider it perfectly okay to just keep it and not do anything about it because there was no prior agreement that you would return said fund backs. No contract to show, no way to force a chargeback, you keep it. Perfectly knowing there's too much and the funds are needed to pay others still awaiting there payment.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ktvE2vfxSQ&t=1m25s |
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Why don't you organize yourselves and do a new vote right now?
Because he has stated that even if he was removed as CEO by a shareholder vote, he would continue with his plan to shut down GLBSE. Anyway, there are a few reasons why the vote to remove Nefario as CEO failed. First, he has a 24% stake in the company. Second, he had a couple of minor supporters. Third, most of those that opposed him in principle were already resigned to the course of events and didn't care to actually take a stand, as even if he was removed, he stated he would shut it down anyway. Are you a BitcoinGlobal partner? |
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Is there a list of double pay transactions somewhere?
I had most of my coins invested in shares and received a <1 BTC transaction that was my recent dividends from before the shutdown.
Even though it is a small amount I would like to return this if it was double payed, but I really have no clue what my balance was at shutdown.
If you had gotten a double payment then you would have gotten 2 transactions with the exact same amount. You sound like you got only one payment so you arent one of them. Not exactly true, in the first round of payments GLBSE sent multiple amounts to the same user. It does not come as one single amount. I got two payments from GLBSE for the same amount but that was because they divided my claim into two payments. |
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Nefario will hold the information hostage for as long as possible. Its a control issue.
He seemed to make most of his decisions with his emotions and not what is right for his company or customers. |
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Is there a list of double pay transactions somewhere?
I had most of my coins invested in shares and received a <1 BTC transaction that was my recent dividends from before the shutdown.
Even though it is a small amount I would like to return this if it was double payed, but I really have no clue what my balance was at shutdown.
If there was a double payment I am sure Nefario will 'chase you down'. |
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I would rather send him the coins back cause he may refuse to give you list of your assets (+ codes or whatever) afterwards.
How do you know that Nefario is still even using his bitcointalk account? How do you know someone did not hack his account? Give him the excess coins after he returns your assets and sends an actual email out. That would prove it is him. Also, how do we know the database is even intact? It took less than a thought to delist all of Goats assets and send him claim codes. If Nefario can run the payment script twice he is just as likely to 'accidentally' delete the database. You really want someone that flushed away 1,000 BTC in 10 minutes to play around with the database well more than 1,000 BTC? Why would he 'accidentally' erase the database? People might be able to come after him for lost bitcoins, but they can't come after him for the assets, especially unregistered, unregulated assets denominated in something not considered money. Nefario is the only one with the evidence. This whole claims process should have been done by someone else at BitcoinGlobal since Nefario pisses his pants when he even imagines a government regulator. He could have easily sent the assets back first, then the bitcoins. |
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Fine, What was needed to remove him? 50% 66% ?
I bet it was more than 47% so he did not scam anyone...
The only one who voted to keep Nefario was Nefario himself. Didn't theymos say that some other people supported Nefario? This does not make sense:
He has about 25% of shares, so it wasn't too difficult for him to pass crazy motions like that.
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Ohh, come on people. There is nothing to discuss here about returning the funds or not.
They are not ours, keeping them is more or less stealing, period.
And also you are probably not keeping Nefarios funds, but Money that is needed to pay out the people that haven't got a payout, yet.
So everyone that is at least a bit honest should return the funds.
I haven't returned them yet, but all I want is (1) to get clarification on the 10% issue.
- I could just return -10%, but that might ruin Nefarios payout script, when he returns the 10% to the other accounts.
(2) To now if and how he checks which accounts have returned the double payment, as I fear that he will hold the double paid accounts Stock hostage until funds have been returned and I don't want to end up having to proof that I have returned them, with having virtually no way to contact him.
Of course keep the amount Nefario owes you and send back the rest. For all you know the script was meant to send you the remaining 10% but instead just redid the last payment amount. |
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I think they should pay back as there are other people that have yet to receive anything, but I don't think they should send it back to Nefario. Nefario needs to either resign as CEO of BitcoinGlobal and manager of GLBSE or he should be fired.
He has shown irresponsibility in handling the users bitcoins and he can't be trusted with sending out information to the asset holders.
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What's the position of the shareholders posting here regarding the overpayment fuck up? If Nefario can't recover all of the overpayments, will BG's own remaining funds be used to top up the short-fall in preference to being used to pay Nefario's salary?
Customers should come before any wages/salary imo. It would be highly unethical to pay Nefario out of users funds. Are you going to fire him now as CEO and let someone more qualified to handle the claims? He should have been fired months ago. I hope this gets the other partners to vote him out at least. |
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What's the position of the shareholders posting here regarding the overpayment fuck up? If Nefario can't recover all of the overpayments, will BG's own remaining funds be used to top up the short-fall in preference to being used to pay Nefario's salary?
Customers should come before any wages/salary imo. It would be highly unethical to pay Nefario out of users funds. Are you going to fire him now as CEO and let someone more qualified to handle the claims? |
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Does anyone who refuses to pay back the overpayment get the scammer tag?
Nefario, you should start a thread with a list of those that refuse to help.
First post since Sept 26th!
Of course not, Nefario can say he sent x bitcoins to user Y and user Y can say they never received X bitcoins. Who is everyone going to believe? I hope this is enough to get BitcoinGlobal to fire Nefario from the CEO position. |
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So, for anyone reading this who has gotten a double payment, the return address is 1BgPRMk4uaJrohM1T9Cn4Hd9pHaEL6FH5j
It would be better to return the coins without me having to chase you for them.
If you have time, could you please explain how you are processing payouts? I believe I was one of the very first people to submit the necessary info and I have yet to receive any deposits to the address I provided. Thank you. Notice how you have to beg yet Nefario demands repayment from his mistake. |
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