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2821  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: CNNMoney - Where did bitcoin go wrong? on: November 02, 2014, 08:28:34 AM
I disagree, hes basically just trying to make "freelancing" sound futuristic and cool - freelancing has been around and growing for a decade or more, but its not going to take over - maintream people cant do it, dont like the stress of it.... they NEED to work for someone else solidly and permanently... I'm more "freelance style" myself.. but its not for everyone and I dont think it ever will be.

Maybe so - but we didn't have nearly the number of people doing freelancing 20 years ago (the internet itself has made doing such work a lot more viable) so I do think it is a growing trend (but agreed that it is still far from being a *mainstream* approach to work).
2822  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: CNNMoney - Where did bitcoin go wrong? on: November 01, 2014, 03:47:30 PM
We need multi sig software that allows a department to have funds which trickle down to an employee being able to pay for things that they currently pay for by writing a check or getting permission from their boss to pay for. It simply does not exist.

I think that we need an entire new way of working that fits in with the decentralised nature of Bitcoin - CIYAM Open is a vision for this (with Project Managers who pay Contributors to deliver Project Tasks and where there is no formal "job" at all).

I had read an article by a "futurist" around the same time I was learning about Bitcoin who thinks that "in the future people won't have jobs" but will contribute their skills to many different projects as small paid tasks.
2823  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Signature Mining (to embed messages into the blockchain without using OP_RETURN) on: October 30, 2014, 06:06:59 PM
The two are incompatible with one another, but there would remain no way that an outside observer (who doesn't have the privkey used for a signature) to determine if k was generated deterministically or it was "mined", so your method remains possible (and it's pretty cool that you went and implemented it Smiley).

Agreed and thanks - just trying to offer ideas for those that are interested to use them.
2824  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Signature Mining (to embed messages into the blockchain without using OP_RETURN) on: October 30, 2014, 05:40:43 PM
Open source does not imply that one is safe.  It certainly is helpful to verify that there are not back doors, but if you don't have enough people looking at it and security audits, well hidden bugs or intentional backdoors are easy to miss.  Obfuscated code that has intentional vulnerabilities can be difficult to spot.

Consequently, it is important to bring up vulnerabilities like this and discuss them - I'm glad you mentioned it.

 Smiley


Of course - I have made this open source and it should be audited by those that are interested (and I am not making any *guarantees* that this is 100% secure - so of course "use this at your own risk").
2825  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Signature Mining (to embed messages into the blockchain without using OP_RETURN) on: October 30, 2014, 05:03:40 PM
I was just bringing up that point -- none of this really applies to open source implementations.

Okay - yes - I understand the issue of poor k values (which have been exploited already in Android).

Although deterministic is most likely a more secure method of generating addresses it of course would make this data injection method unfeasible.
2826  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Signature Mining (to embed messages into the blockchain without using OP_RETURN) on: October 30, 2014, 03:26:21 PM
I thought that the ability to create subliminal messages in a security protocol was generally considered a flaw of that protocol.

For example, an evil ECDSA implementation could leak a user's private key to the implementation's authors. Isn't that (one) reason that newer ECDSA implementations deterministically generate k?

(I'm just repeating what I've read elsewhere on the forums and on the web, e.g. DJB's blog.)

For a start you'd need to *be aware* that the subliminal message exists (there is no way to tell by just looking at the sigs especially if you don't know how the code that encoded them is working as the placement of the message bytes can be made arbitrary).

Also this is only removing 1 or 2 bytes of security (assuming you could work out what had been purposely injected) which is not going to let you crack a private key.

If you consider a "vanity address" it is the same thing. Just because you know that I have an address that is prefixed with 1ciyam does not mean you are going to be able to *crack its private key* (if it were that easy then there should be zero BTC at my sig address - but there isn't).
2827  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Signature Mining (to embed messages into the blockchain without using OP_RETURN) on: October 30, 2014, 02:32:07 PM
I decided to add a couple of functions to CIYAM's crypto keys implementation (https://github.com/ciyam/ciyam/blob/master/src/crypto_keys.cpp#L730) to emulate a "vanitygen" approach to "mining addresses" in order to encode a message in the address itself (just one byte per address for simplicity and because the code would need to be optimised to do more and it's obvious that vanitygen is very well optimised when I checked the timing).

Code to "encode the encrypted message" into a bunch of private keys is as follows ("Hello!" would of course be replaced with an encrypted message). The addresses and private keys are then output to the console.

Code:
vector< string > secrets;
generate_secrets_for_leading_byte_encoded_message( "Hello!", secrets );

vector< string > addresses;
for( size_t i = 0; i < secrets.size( ); i++ )
{
   addresses.push_back( private_key( secrets[ i ] ).get_address( ) );
   cout << addresses.back( ) << ' ' << secrets[ i ] << endl;
}

the other side (to decode the encrypted message) is as follows:

Code:
cout << decode_message_from_leading_byte_encoded_addresses( addresses ) << endl;

and this is a sample of the console output:
Code:
17crfGDDU1MJSdM2rrFGNXYm6db4hEQo6A bdad968085aa4b7b6cd653e4341c8845a84ccc37ce2438c3965c814d3cc686de
1AEqwSMc8rdR3jMUsSMU1Fx1x6sBKtLyhA a8f3b581a5fd2af58c7b9841df878f4631e189f69143ba6f34874ad527f6c435
1AurJRfZ8mLZfLAEonYnB2fRNKJj2sM52g a67bb9045d5bf12f89a871be3554aa798e69ab088740c3136d8111f21ba53c3b
1AujLMPYW3nkEte13PSmmrLJe6pJZYswgu 1bffc5f7d38e7a609511c89d24127b78324d74328a301ef803d539f6adcc65f6
1B85SG1dvTaF9JsM1UMaeLoQyb6MT6FHxr c180c4c1256e6b9dc1cf9ca9f9468953b3c9de9b7c25cd90969f25bb709a3164
145KFvZFLSYWHfDtJrmghcTKvaKAkp9rKu 1639eb3dce0143dd8b468abdcfe05e4f9ede0cf9a4621c6d07fc1eca44a4d56d
Hello!

Granted that only using 1 byte per address (and assuming 1 UTXO as the input) you could only fit 25 bytes for a 1K tx but it is at least a template of how this could be used by an application in order to send private messages via Bitcoin.
2828  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Signature Mining (to embed messages into the blockchain without using OP_RETURN) on: October 30, 2014, 12:18:28 PM

Very interesting - thanks.
2829  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Would you work for Bitcoins? (not bitpay etc) on: October 29, 2014, 05:12:27 PM
Or perhaps the business model is flawed, we at Bitlancers hedge all freelancers money against USD, thus volitality is only an issue for a short period.

I do offer USD instead of BTC actually - so I don't think that is the issue.
2830  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Signature Mining (to embed messages into the blockchain without using OP_RETURN) on: October 29, 2014, 04:26:00 PM
@Crowex - nice - and yes I think you are right that the approach I've outlined is more like *subliminal* than normal *steganography*.

I'll let others be the judge of that however (I just enjoy *hacking* every now and again).  Grin
2831  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Problem with raw transaction on: October 29, 2014, 04:23:11 PM
What is this for?

Code:
' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' '

I am assuming that your problem might be around there.

In regards to unconfirmed coins - better to let them confirm before trying to spend them.
2832  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Would you work for Bitcoins? (not bitpay etc) on: October 29, 2014, 04:20:52 PM
How to work for bitcoins if its decentralized?

IMO the way of the future is going to be decentralised also.
2833  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Signature Mining (to embed messages into the blockchain without using OP_RETURN) on: October 29, 2014, 04:18:46 PM
Use an 1-of-N multisig, with 1 real public key, and N-1 fake public keys encoding the message

Another good idea (I like the way ideas flow here in this part of the forum).

Maybe Amir might add some approach along these lines to "sx".
2834  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Would you work for Bitcoins? (not bitpay etc) on: October 29, 2014, 04:02:48 PM
I am freelance writer too. But I refused to take BTC as a payment and still do. Don't have the guts to accept it I guess. But might accept in the future.

It's understandable and I've certainly found with running CIYAM Open that the *enthusiasm* drops when the USD exchange rate drops (so I have come to the conclusion that the idea is still *years ahead of its time*).
2835  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: [BIP][Draft] BitID - "Connect with Bitcoin" protocol on: October 29, 2014, 03:32:23 PM
I don't get it... How should me phone authenticate me to some server without contacting that server?

It's really quite simple - to "sign up" your phone creates a public key that it displays as a QR code and you use the camera on your PC to *scan it*. Then it sends back a public key (for your account) along with a one time message as a QR code that you then scan with your phone. Your phone then *signs a message* with its private key for the public key (and the one time message) and displays that as a QR code - you now again show your phone to the camera and you are done.

When signing in at a later stage you first enter your username - it will then display a QR code that is the public key and one time message. You scan this with your phone and then it creates a QR code of the *signed response" which lets you "log in".

So your phone never needs internet access to do this (just needs a camera and a display).

It is not that much more difficult than a traditional login (especially if you consider 2FA) and it is 100% secure (getting people used to this idea is going to be the hardest part).
2836  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Signature Mining (to embed messages into the blockchain without using OP_RETURN) on: October 29, 2014, 03:09:22 PM
The paper I quoted explains the difference between steganography and subliminal channels.
I thought this was more along the lines of subliminal channels.

I did read the paper but perhaps not carefully enough - care to give a succinct explanation of the difference (not just for me but for others that might be following this topic)?

Unfortunately there has been so much to read lately (and I like many others am very busy) so it can really be helpful if smart people that understand these things can just succinctly explain the concepts in a way that most of us can easily absorb (rather than drowning ourselves in white papers - I am still digesting the side chains white paper at the moment).
2837  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: 10 BTC bounty for first AT *atomic cross-chain transfer* with Script clone on: October 29, 2014, 03:01:18 PM
I am keen on programming (Software Engineer) but I'm afraid I do not have the needed time available.. Sad

Perhaps have a quick look at this: http://ciyam.org/at/at_script.html to gauge how difficult the task would be.
2838  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Signature Mining (to embed messages into the blockchain without using OP_RETURN) on: October 29, 2014, 02:56:10 PM
@trout - I agree that this is a form of steganography and also that I could have just *set up a service website* to ask people for BTC to send such messages (if I could be bothered) but you'll notice I didn't do that as I am just interested in getting the ideas out there (maybe a website for this will pop up next week but I assure you it will have nothing to do with me).

I am pretty sure it is much safer than using OP_RETURN (in terms of evidence) but yes I do think that you'd have to design it very carefully to make it *undetectable* (and using any website service for a start would be a huge weak point).
2839  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Signature Mining (to embed messages into the blockchain without using OP_RETURN) on: October 29, 2014, 02:48:31 PM
I should have said "exponentially harder in length of the message".

Sure - this approach is only really suitable for short messages (not for storing files in the blockchain).
2840  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Signature Mining (to embed messages into the blockchain without using OP_RETURN) on: October 29, 2014, 02:47:34 PM
What you are talking about seems along the lines of subliminal channels.
http://www.emsec.rub.de/media/crypto/attachments/files/2011/03/subliminal_channels.pdf

Nice find (and not something I was aware of) - for sure I didn't expect that my idea was the first about this (just thought I'd share my afternoon of fun *hacking*).
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