Isn't it a bit late for selling coins in order to buy Alibaba stock? Exchanges typically do not let you transfer fiat to 3rd party accounts. So I assume you have to transfer to your bank first, then to a stock broker. IPO was Thursday and retail sale is beginning this Friday, so the funds will probably not arrive on time to get in early?
Of course it is stupid story, although it sounds kind of possible on the first sight. Also IPO is not for chinese small people (maybe through some fund). Are you stupid? Initial Public Offering means anyone w a brokerage account can buy Its a US IPO. I think it is fair to say that most middle-class Chinese folk will not be buying it on the US exchange tomorrow. We are not talking about average jo middle class Chinese folk we are talking about BTC speculators/holders/miners... and some of them might be Chinese... and some of them have more money than middle class Americans/Europeans, and be perfectly well equipped to buy on any exchange anywhere.... |
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Yeah... it seems to make sense for a possible explanation... speculators holding off until the last minute to take some funds and push them into the Alibaba P&D... so... question is... how much will come back to mumma Bitcoin and how soon?
Seems like win win, force market down with sell off, walk away with x amount of cash (and a BTC sold figure) profit from Alibaba pump, take profit and either
pop some in the hole in the water fund, or buy back same amount of BTC (at a now lower price) OR buy back even more BTC at a lower price.
You don't sell Bitcoins 1 day before IPO and also IPO is not for small guys. Bullshit mostly this as a reason, this was purely momentum triggered after nice work done the same way as many times before from the same wall-bear. But could still be some guys selling for IPO, but nothing spectacular. Why not? sell BTC 1 day before the IPO, if you feel that BTC could go up a few more dollars? (or down? fair enough) Also, many BTC speculators are .... well speculators... and the biggest IPO of all time is enough to draw in speculators, large and small... as long as they are active in trading in general, I can perfectly see traders taking the risk... it is more than plausible imo.. Most rational people would rather own shares of Alibaba than Bitcoins. At least Alibaba has fundamentals Or maybe some of us realize we need to hold on to BTC without selling any and move some other stocks that are not performing well into Alibaba? Buy both but definitely don't sell BTC right now! For sure... but also some BTC speculators (even 1 or 2 big ones) may have enough coins and have been eyeballing the BABA float for a while and have decided to try and spin a buck...and make moar for their hole in the water fund/invest back into BTC or become BABA holders... It takes all sorts |
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Yeah... it seems to make sense for a possible explanation... speculators holding off until the last minute to take some funds and push them into the Alibaba P&D... so... question is... how much will come back to mumma Bitcoin and how soon?
Seems like win win, force market down with sell off, walk away with x amount of cash (and a BTC sold figure) profit from Alibaba pump, take profit and either
pop some in the hole in the water fund, or buy back same amount of BTC (at a now lower price) OR buy back even more BTC at a lower price.
You don't sell Bitcoins 1 day before IPO and also IPO is not for small guys. Bullshit mostly this as a reason, this was purely momentum triggered after nice work done the same way as many times before from the same wall-bear. But could still be some guys selling for IPO, but nothing spectacular. Why not? sell BTC 1 day before the IPO, if you feel that BTC could go up a few more dollars? (or down? fair enough) Also, many BTC speculators are .... well speculators... and the biggest IPO of all time is enough to draw in speculators, large and small... as long as they are active in trading in general, I can perfectly see traders taking the risk... it is more than plausible imo.. Most rational people would rather own shares of Alibaba than Bitcoins. At least Alibaba has fundamentals Can I pay someone on the other side of world few $ grands in a matter of seconds without/cents of fees with Alibaba? If something is digital it doesn't mean there is no value or fundamentals. Look up what fundamentals mean. Does it mean made of moondust? or am I thinking of something else? |
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Yeah... it seems to make sense for a possible explanation... speculators holding off until the last minute to take some funds and push them into the Alibaba P&D... so... question is... how much will come back to mumma Bitcoin and how soon?
Seems like win win, force market down with sell off, walk away with x amount of cash (and a BTC sold figure) profit from Alibaba pump, take profit and either
pop some in the hole in the water fund, or buy back same amount of BTC (at a now lower price) OR buy back even more BTC at a lower price.
You don't sell Bitcoins 1 day before IPO and also IPO is not for small guys. Bullshit mostly this as a reason, this was purely momentum triggered after nice work done the same way as many times before from the same wall-bear. But could still be some guys selling for IPO, but nothing spectacular. Why not? sell BTC 1 day before the IPO, if you feel that BTC could go up a few more dollars? (or down? fair enough) Also, many BTC speculators are .... well speculators... and the biggest IPO of all time is enough to draw in speculators, large and small... as long as they are active in trading in general, I can perfectly see traders taking the risk... it is more than plausible imo.. Most rational people would rather own shares of Alibaba than Bitcoins. At least Alibaba has fundamentals We are talking about Bitcoin speculators here... some of them may or may not be rational all depending on your point of view. |
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Isn't it a bit late for selling coins in order to buy Alibaba stock? Exchanges typically do not let you transfer fiat to 3rd party accounts. So I assume you have to transfer to your bank first, then to a stock broker. IPO was Thursday and retail sale is beginning this Friday, so the funds will probably not arrive on time to get in early?
Depends on how much liquid cash you already have sitting in bank accounts/with a broker, one could take some BTC profits , speculating on the price to the last(ish) minute, then you have a figure to play with, you then buy BABA with funds already in your account, and action the transfer from the exchange to replenish your fighting funds in your accounts, job done. Possible at least... I can see Chinese (and others of course) specualtors being interested in BABA, and some of those may have been BTC specualtors, thinking they are going to try and profit.. maybe not... but it is not beyon the realms imo. |
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Bitcoin is not diving because of Alibaba, it is diving because we are above the true transaction value of Bitcoin, we will go down until we are at or close to the transactional value of bitcoin, then up when speculation drives the price again.
meh... the Alibaba scenario is perfectly viable... the timing is too much.. only hours to go until the biggest IPO in history... seems plausible enough to me, well as plausible as your opinion that BTC is below its transaction value...maybe more plausible because he saying it will keep going down untill price = transaction value. opps.... It should have read "BTC is above its transaction value" |
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Yeah... it seems to make sense for a possible explanation... speculators holding off until the last minute to take some funds and push them into the Alibaba P&D... so... question is... how much will come back to mumma Bitcoin and how soon?
Seems like win win, force market down with sell off, walk away with x amount of cash (and a BTC sold figure) profit from Alibaba pump, take profit and either
pop some in the hole in the water fund, or buy back same amount of BTC (at a now lower price) OR buy back even more BTC at a lower price.
You don't sell Bitcoins 1 day before IPO and also IPO is not for small guys. Bullshit mostly this as a reason, this was purely momentum triggered after nice work done the same way as many times before from the same wall-bear. But could still be some guys selling for IPO, but nothing spectacular. Why not? sell BTC 1 day before the IPO, if you feel that BTC could go up a few more dollars? (or down? fair enough) Also, many BTC speculators are .... well speculators... and the biggest IPO of all time is enough to draw in speculators, large and small... as long as they are active in trading in general, I can perfectly see traders taking the risk... it is more than plausible imo.. |
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Bitcoin is not diving because of Alibaba, it is diving because we are above the true transaction value of Bitcoin, we will go down until we are at or close to the transactional value of bitcoin, then up when speculation drives the price again.
meh... the Alibaba scenario is perfectly viable... the timing is too much.. only hours to go until the biggest IPO in history... seems plausible enough to me, well as plausible as your opinion that BTC is below its transaction value...maybe more plausible because |
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Yeah... it seems to make sense for a possible explanation... speculators holding off until the last minute to take some funds and push them into the Alibaba P&D... so... question is... how much will come back to mumma Bitcoin and how soon?
Seems like win win, force market down with sell off, walk away with x amount of cash (and a BTC sold figure) profit from Alibaba pump, take profit and either
pop some in the hole in the water fund, or buy back same amount of BTC (at a now lower price) OR buy back even more BTC at a lower price.
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The Alibaba IPO is tomorrow. Probably some people pulling money out of bitcoin in order to participate in purchasing a chunk of the IPO shares. I mentioned this a few pages back.
Boom http://www.theguardian.com/business/2014/sep/18/alibaba-investor-ipo-sell-shares-lockup-flotationQuote "The disclosure, first reported by the Wall Street Journal, is just one more complication ahead of what looks set to be the biggest stock market floatation of all time on Friday. Alibaba set the price of its shares on Thursday at $68, the top end of its planned range, and is expected to raise up to $22bn (£13.5bn). At $68 a share, the company is valued at $167.6bn – bigger than Amazon and more than double the value of eBay. Some analysts have speculated the company could be valued at more than $200bn once it goes public of the New York Stock Exchange, making the company almost more valuable than the combined value of Amazon and eBay, the two companies it is most often compared to." Seems quite feasible that this would attract the attention of speculators... them forty thieves done stole our Bitcoinz  |
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I blame the forty thieves for the decline ...they come stole all our cheaps Bitcoins and err stuff. (forty thieves-1001 Nights? you with me?)
Talking of which, it looks like a phoenix rising.... of course... there is a high probablility that the stock will decline a fair bit after the IPO and the dust has settled, but at its current projected marketcap after the IPO tomorrow ... they will be bigger than Amazon bigger than Ebay! and they are not Bitcoin friendly  ..... YET. Howevas... we may see some short order profit taking from the IPO and some monies returning home to mumma Bitcoin. no bites ? no nibbles?  what IPO? Google Forty Thieves and 1001 Nights and it will give you a clue?  |
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now i thinking about suicide! (no joke)  You should NOT put yourself in such a financial situation... so try to learn from this in order to help yourself to better deal with these kinds of situations in the future.  People had already said, in this thread, that investors should NOT put themselves in such situations. You can always sell, lose less. Still something left over. Just go back to work tomorrow and start over. Or just hold and see what happens next.... and if it does not work out... start over |
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I blame the forty thieves for the decline ...they come stole all our cheaps Bitcoins and err stuff. (forty thieves-1001 Nights? you with me?)
Talking of which, it looks like a phoenix rising.... of course... there is a high probablility that the stock will decline a fair bit after the IPO and the dust has settled, but at its current projected marketcap after the IPO tomorrow ... they will be bigger than Amazon bigger than Ebay! and they are not Bitcoin friendly ..... YET. Howevas... we may see some short order profit taking from the IPO and some monies returning home to mumma Bitcoin. no bites ? no nibbles? |
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I'm starting to realize that industrial-level miners competition can only drive the price down. If they are rational (eg: no emotion-fueled home miners), then assuming that even one of the big ones sell as fast as they mine, it became the best (only?) strategy for everyone else to sell as fast as they mine. Until their margin is 0, and then beyond, keep going until the margin is negative. Keep going until the hardware is obsolete, until the capital inflow dry, until investors hire hitmen.
A hitman is the first thing a good investor should hire |
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I blame the forty thieves for the decline ...they come stole all our cheaps Bitcoins and err stuff. (forty thieves-1001 Nights? you with me?)
Talking of which, it looks like a phoenix rising.... of course... there is a high probablility that the stock will decline a fair bit after the IPO and the dust has settled, but at its current projected marketcap after the IPO tomorrow ... they will be bigger than Amazon bigger than Ebay! and they are not Bitcoin friendly ..... YET. Howevas... we may see some short order profit taking from the IPO and some monies returning home to mumma Bitcoin. |
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I blame the forty thieves for the decline...they come stole all our cheaps Bitcoins and err stuff. (forty thieves-1001 Nights? you with me?)
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Ah well, if that is the case so be it... democracy in action, as in an actual real choice, that would lead to actual something of meaning happening in life/society, not just an illusion, so if they choose no, then so be it... if they choose yes... then war I mean so be it too. It is good to see some actual democracy in action, that has actual real world ramifications. I said before and I will say it again... my brain tells me the vote will be NO, but my heart and my gut is not so sure though... either way I think it is going to be close. Will Scotland cut their noose loose? not long to find out now! The rest of the Union should have a say too. It's all very well for Scotland to vote but what if the rest of the union doesn't want them? Just what the world needs, another 3rd world country. Isn't balkanization wonderful? I think they would have some pain for a decade or so... but especially if they started a sovereign wealth fund , further down the line they would actually have been a quite wealthy nation. |
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Ah well, if that is the case so be it... democracy in action, as in an actual real choice, that would lead to actual something of meaning happening in life/society, not just an illusion, so if they choose no, then so be it... if they choose yes... then war I mean so be it too. It is good to see some actual democracy in action, that has actual real world ramifications. I said before and I will say it again... my brain tells me the vote will be NO, but my heart and my gut is not so sure though... either way I think it is going to be close. Will Scotland cut their noose loose? not long to find out now! The rest of the Union should have a say too. It's all very well for Scotland to vote but what if the rest of the union doesn't want them? True... but... who would not want the Scots? I would vote AYE! yeah there are problems, but also Scotland has a rich cultural heritage and beautiful country with the lochs and the mountains and the coast and highlands n islands and wildlife and all of that , and some fine minds have come from Scotland over the years, and some damn good food. (not talking about deep fried mars bars) I like their attitude and I would quite like to be there now, in the higlands somewhere eating some Scottish beef, in a quiet country pub, getting pished...that would be grand... (all the above are generalisations of course, and contrary to belief for many, but check out the voter turnout... huge percentage.. that says something for the people imo) I for one would vote yes... apart from that we get to park our nuclear submarines and tridents up there... and Queenie would go and hide in the lochs if there was ever a ermm problem. Sure there is the financial argument as to why it might not be the best thing in the world (which I do not agree with as it goes) but then Westminster has other more pressing financial matters that I would rather see them address. Personally, if I was a Scot though.. I would have thought very hard about a yes vote.... (EDIT - I FORGOT TO SAY, ACTUALLY I DO AGREE THE WHOLE UNION SHOULD HAVE BEEN PART OF THE VOTE THOUGH!!) |
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