If they sell all what they stake, it's also a 100%-inflation against the community-supply every 2 weeks:


They gave to the community 100,000,000 NEU ("0.1 billion to be sold in presale to crypto-community")

The other 2,900,000,000 NEU are staking with 100% a year, what is 0,2739% a day.

0,2739% of 2.9 billion = 7,9 Mio

Every 13 days there is more than a 100% inflation out of community-perspective.


That's the main reason why this project has zero chance.

Das waren alles ICO's? Doge, Dash und Blackcoin... das waren doch keine ICO's?? (CP sagt mir nix)

NXT weiß ich... kenne den ursprünglichen Preis aber nicht. Aber Da wirst Du wohl richtig liegen.

No... maybe they pressed the ignore-button. Makes me sad, but I'm not too surprised ;-)



Is there any proof that they really were able to sell 0.3 billion to "initial seed" and "strategic angel investors"? With other words: Could it be possible that there aren't (m)any real investors and the group behind it holds it (nearly = 99,99%) all?


I looked into the ICO-Address. And the question whereto they send the money is interesting. But also the received transactions are very interesting. I randomly looked into those addresses and it's always(?) the same: Two transactions... one in and one out with little time between. Balance always zero. If you go back further, the same picture.

What I want to say with that: It doesn't look as if people like you and me transacted BTC to buy into an ICO. It looks like Mixing before it reaches the ICO-Address.

Ich habs als "Closed Casket Motha Fucka" übersetzt... also "Sarg bitte zumachen" zumachen übersetzt.

Und ja, wird sicherlich noch billiger. Auch ja, macht sicher keine Freude irgendwo zwischen 0.003 und 0.008 gekauft zu haben. Ich hab bisher zwar nen Auge drauf gehabt aber nicht investiert. Mir ist kein ICO-Projekt bekannt/bewusst das im freien Handel nicht relativ bald unter ICO-Preis war.

zu voreilig...

Ich sehe das sehr ähnlich. Allerdings finde ich auch langfristige Prognosen schwer. Man kann sicherlich sagen, dass das Projekt nicht so schnell aufgegeben wird und ich würde darauf tippen, dass da auch noch einiges kommt das den Preis befeuern kann. Die Frage ist aber: Von welchem Punkt aus? Ich halte momentan für möglich das er irgendwo im derzeitigen Bereich (zwischen 0.0015 und 0.0025) abprallen und wieder steigen wird aber es ist auch locker möglich das der jetzt erst mal einfach weiter fällt, deutlich unter ICO. Das würde mich gar nicht abhalten ein bisschen zu investieren, aber... ein Gedanke macht mir etwas Sorgen: Das sie zwar mit einer genialen Idee um die Ecke gekommen sind, die dann aber auf einmal von anderen weit besser umgesetzt wird. Denk an das was wir über Facebook wissen. Die Basis-Idee kam von den Winkle-Twins... aber auf einmal haut Zuckerberg, basierend auf dieser Idee, etwas viel größeres hinaus das sofort allen Konkurrenten über den Kopf wächst.

Und das ist etwas, das ich allgemein vermute... Ich glaube, das es viel mehr Entwicklung im Crypto-Bereich gibt als wir momentan wissen, mehr als momentan öffentlich gemacht wird. Wir sind es gewohnt das jemand mit einer Idee um die Ecke kommt und die wird dann gekauft oder auch nicht, und mit der Zeit wird sie immer weiter entwickelt (im positiven Fall). Aber was wäre wenn mal ne sehr professionelle Gruppe mit etwas kommt das schon viel weiter ist, und was sie die letzten zwei Jahre voran getrieben haben ohne das es jemand ahnte? Ich glaube, dass so etwas passieren wird... Und darin liegt einerseits ein gewisses Potential, aber auch ein großes Risiko für die derzeitigen "Marktführer" - Bitcoin mit eingeschlossen logischerweise. Aber eben auch Projekte wie ETH oder Anon-Coins oder Crypto-Social-Networks etc.

Denn diese Bereiche sind m.A.n. die Zukunft. Ich glaube, das es ein paar grundlegende Ideen geben wird die in 3-10 Jahren von einigen wenigen ziemlich perfekt umgesetzt sein werden und alles andere ausstechen. Irgendne Währung für den Dark-Market, so gut wie perfekt-anonym. Irgendwas das sich auf Social-Network fokussiert und etwas wie ETH das von der Idee her letztlich eh grenzenlos wäre, was seine Anwendungen betrifft.... aber ich denke, es wird spezifischer. Nicht ein Coin für alles.

Einer der bedeutendsten Punkte dabei: Userfreundlichkeit... und sofortige Anwendungsmöglichkeit. Wie Facebook in etwa. Es geht online, und beeindruckt unmittelbar. Und das haben sie mit ETH bisher nicht geschafft. Das beeindruckt jene die sich da zumindest so weit reinfuchsen das sie die Idee verstehen. Um das zu verstehen braucht man aber entweder Programmierbackground oder Crypto-Erfahrung oder am besten sicherlich noch beides.

Lange Rede kurzer Sinn: Das macht Crypto allgemein sehr spannend, aber eben auch möglich das man die ganze Zeit auf falsche Pferde setzt während irgendwo eins schon viel weiter ist von dem kein Schwein was ahnt. ;-)

Why? It's a serious question and not meant critical... I just would like to know (in general, not just regarding you) what those, who support and buy this project, see in it.

I'm pretty sure that they're not just holding this:

- 2.4 billion held by the three non-profit foundations: 0.4 billion - Code foundation / 1.0 billion - Growth foundation / 1.0 billion - Utility foundation
- 0.2 billion retained by founders for $1 million of work invested
- 0.1 billion sold to initial seed investors for $250,000
- 0.2 billion sold to strategic angel investors for $1 million cash invested


....but also the majority of this:

- 0.1 billion to be sold in presale to crypto-community



Reason is: There are not much users on their forum and near to zero action. I don't believe that they were able to sell 100 Mio Neucoins for about 1 Mio Dollar. If so many real investors would've bought this, there would be a lot more communication about it, a lot more banging the drum for it (from the community) and a lot more questions about it and so on.


How many ordinary investors would be needed to raise 4000 BTC? I would say at least 4000... more likely 8000.

And I'm sure they would like to know if the Neucoin-Devs hold their promises and ask what they'll do with the BTC. But nobody asks. All the questions about it are here, but no real answers. Blockexplorer? They are not under obligation to release it, make your own or wait for the official. Questions about the ICO adress and if the money flows to the "no-profit-foundations" as promised and what all the BTC-shaking means... no answer. Questions about the 2.4 billion Neucoins and the 100%-PoS-rate... no answers.


And that's very interesting, because the few supporter call it FUD to ask those questions. If there were thousands of Investors they would like to know what happens with their money.



It's just a theory, but what I believe is this:

The Neucoin-Group started this project with the known premine, and maybe because of the XPY-Desaster that escalated at the same time people were very cautious. Also the plan could be that they'll have complete control over the price, even could make marketing over the price if they hold 99,9%. Obviously there were a lot of conflicts and delays in the last months, it seems that some of the bigger supporters stepped back from this project and now they're probably sitting on their Neucoins, staking it, playing the market a little bit, but they don't have a plan to distribute it. They would need thousands and ten-thousands and hundred-thousands of buyers.... but most likely there are just a few hundred with tiny amounts.

And it's like a dead-end situation. Because if they hype it, make much PR for it, there also will be a lot of questions. They would get more people in but at the same time more people would pay attention who raise some serious questions. And it's obvious that they don't want to answer those questions. But it won't be easier to get buyers in future. I never would buy a project which has an economy like a central bank and a steady increasing supply because of a 100%-PoS-rate. Day by day it get's more worthless.

100% PoS per year = 0,27% per day.

The "non-profit-foundations" staking more than 6 Mio Coins per day. In just 20 days they stake more Coins they've sold to the crypto community.

And the funny part of this: It's not the problem of the community... As I said, I don't believe that there were many real buyers. It's their own problem, because now they're playing with themselves. The project is flawed by design.


By the way: Is there any proof that there are "initial seed investors" and "strategic angel investors" who gave $1,25 Mio? Because if they really exist, I would say they're most probably really pissed. ;-)

Okay, thanks for your response. But maybe you understand, that if you guys want this project to succeed, the most important question is how to raise trust. My impression is, that most of potential investors step back when they see the premine and the tons of Neucoin in the hands of a few guys, the 100% PoS-Rate that'll double those holdings in 12 months. If I understand it right, there are just 2-3% in the hand of the community and on the market right now?


And if you read this:

"The presale proceeds were not used to develop the cryptocurrency itself (which was paid for by NeuCoin’s founders and strategic, accredited investors, see above). All proceeds from the token presale (4,012 Bitcoins) were held in the multisig address 3MrNuksZ1VePU3dGiSQFiouWerJUJgDkfH until the cryptocurrency launched and the tokens were delivered on September 23, 2015. Following NeuCoin's creation and launch, all presale proceeds were transferred to NeuCoin’s three Isle of Man-based, non-profit foundations to be used to support the decentralized cryptocurrency through core development, consumer marketing and microtranscations platform development."


...and than see this:

https://blockchain.info/address/3MrNuksZ1VePU3dGiSQFiouWerJUJgDkfH

All this little transactions... and all these adresses... that are adresses of the "non-profit-foundations"? And please don't just say "yes", because if you should be wrong that could turn into a timebomb. Maybe you followed the Paycoin-Desaster and there are always some guys watching the blockchain.

And what does it mean, "non-profit"? They're holding 80% of the supply and it will increase through 100%-staking. What's planned with that? How do you guys want to distribute it without crashing the market? Because if you don't distribute it, it also will make Neucoin worthless. In 6 months they'll hold 3.6 billions. Hard to feel comfortable with that - out of investor-perspective.

Didn't know that we have a Neucoin-team-member here... would be nice to answer those questions. There is not much communication as far as I see. The Neucoin-Forum is very quiet and it's hard (or impossible) to find important informations.

Ich finde das mittel- bis langfristig alles sehr unberechenbar, v.a. wegen der hohen Inflation. Weiß jemand ob die finanziellen Sorgen noch relevant sind? Es gab mal Email-Leaks in denen gesagt wurde, das Geld sei bald aufgebraucht.

Where do they communicate? Is there a secret place or something like that? The neucoin-forum is completely quiet. Do they have an IRC-Channel?

In this moment the price is....

Bittrex: 0.000041
Cryptsy: 0.000056

...doubtful that there will be a pump ;-)

What a joke... but will be entertaining. The more I read about it the more it seems that the Neucoin-Group is playing with itself and that there are maybe 100 guys who throw their money in this because they've missed to throw it into Paycoin. ;-)

The adresses for this mysterious foundations... are they known/transparent?

And for Neucoin, isn't there a blockexplorer? Can't find it.

I don't expect honesty. Most likely they had to buy some of the ICO themselves... I doubt that there were enough people to give them thousands of BTC. And they won't invest much of it in the project, because they presumably know that it hasn't future.

What's more interesting is: I'm sure that they have to fake the volume. There is not that much user-attraction. In the most viewed and replied thread on their forum only 46 Users participated. Neucoin is much smaller like they want it to seem and they will probably make some moves to let it seem something like the next big thing, but it would cost some money ;-)

Their problem is really: They can't distribute it without damaging the price. Will be interesting to see if they will be able to sell their 2% in two months. If the price should rise before, most of all people will believe it's manipulated to make some pr about the market, so the majority will be very cautious. Every time they distribute/sell they'll lose some more of the control about the price and because of the fraud-design, there is no chance to create any real value.

For me it really seems like XPY. Much noise but nothing real to show. Non-Anonymous Guys behind it but that won't help to raise trust. Than there are obvious lies and in the end there could be an investigation as with XPY and Garza. They didn't think through it and the money they can make out of it is not that much that they all will be happy about it... and at the same time they'll have to face much pressure.

That would be my prediction.

Your assumption is that they are building buy-support with those BTC's, right?

I did not follow close enough to have an exact overview about it. The Seychelles wallet is...what? The ICO-BTC-Wallet?

Could anybody give me an overview about the BTC wallets and maybe the neucoin-wallets they hold?

One of the most important sentence in your post is: "If the user numbers are growing (...)"

But, where should it come from? Every Investor who looks at the premine, the more than strange distribution and the huge inflation will step back. It only attracts some players and those who believe this is "something big" without thinking through and probably without much money. They would need MANY little Investors just to hold the current value and it would nee a continuing growing.

I see no way, that any professional coder with the potential for technological innovation will risk his credibility being part of this. I don't see any way that any professional company will implement it.

And if there is not enough user-growth to hold the current value, what will they do and what are they most likely already doing? They have to manipulate the market - buy themselves, to simulate attraction, maybe to get some growth about a rising price.

But let's assume they want BTC, and this assumption is obvious (visible in the distribution), they have to sell at some time. Maybe they'll drive the price a little bit, and they're able to do that. But it's a risk out of their perspective because they don't know if that would build enough real buy support to get back the invested BTC's.

Another risk out of their perspective is the question if they can trust each other? ;-) Together they hold that much of the current supply that I wouldn't be surprised if it would lead to some paranoia between each other. And even if everybody will operate like planned: At the end of each month they have to make a race who is first on the market to get the better prices...

Really, this is a weird project with a very limited potential and I doubt that it will survive the first year. Even out of their own perspective it's not very clever. They probably believe that they can control it because they have control about the distribution, but they will have to make a decision if they want to hold the current value or sell/distribute it... and at the same time they will stake tons of new Coins and fear each other.

It's very interesting because it involves some very strange psychological aspects, not just regarding the community and the market but also in the group behind. If I see it right, it needs just one of those behind, to crash the market. And I believe that it needs just one or two little crashs to turn it into an ongoing downward-dynamic.