Just like I said about a week ago... Price is starting to roll over. Trend broken and head and shoulders broken, look out down below...  |
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BitPay's news is bullish a fuck. Consider this: the less success they enjoy means the less people are turning BTC for fiat.  Hardly a bullish thing as people and merchants can just use coinbase instead to cash out. Let's be real that they: 1. Laid off 20 employees, 2. were denied coverage from their insurance company for the loss of $1.8 million 3. stopping their free program for small merchants 4. Black listing certain bitcoin addresses are all not a positive thing for the overall economy of Bitcoin and the price. |
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Interesting take. If interest rates go below 0 and into NEGATIVE territory then that implies that if you put any cash into a bank account, over time they will eat away a portion of your deposit as a fee for holding your money. LOL omg the fucked up world we live in.  BITCOIN throughout the article link above, also mentioned in the article at the bottom: It actually means that the banks would pay you to borrow money - they wouldn't actually take a fee for your savings. If they did they'd have no money to lend and then have no hope of producing an income on their business of being a bank. i am pretty sure a bank would rather garnish people's savings than loan out cash and pay you to borrow it. |
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If such legit merchant processors as Bitpay and Coinbase reject dirty BTC, why do you think any crypto transaction processor will accept XMR payments if everyone knows that XMR is widely used for dark deals? Can you substantiate that claim? Anon coins are created for dark markets. Believe me no one will use XMR which does not even have a direct fiat-xmr exchange for legal purposes For legal activity there is BTC which can be very easily purchased. Privacy has tons of benefits not relating to dark markets at all. Would you publish your bank account balance, payroll and supplier payment data on a transparent blockchain for all your competitors to see? The answer should be obvious Yes, the answer is obvious but it is also obvious that anon coin will be mainly used for illegal activities. So do you think governments will allow anon coins while they know they breach AML policies? Some years ago people were hiding their bank account balances, payroll and supplier payment data in offshore banks but currently there are no more offshores guaranteeing privacy. They all accepted AEOI rules under USA pressure. Bitcoin was so much "associated" with drug dealers and criminal online activity by the media. The same functionality is used for USD and every other fiat currency out there. Just because spoons are used to help make meth, doesn't mean that spoons are bad and people shouldn't use spoons. Same goes for monero, bitcoin, cash etc. Just because people use it for a bad purpose does not mean that people shouldn't use it and can't use it for transacting. As I said you can be completely transparent with your monero transactions if you consent to it with an auditing party or regulatory official(s) with your VIEW KEY. |
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If such legit merchant processors as Bitpay and Coinbase reject dirty BTC, why do you think any crypto transaction processor will accept XMR payments if everyone knows that XMR is widely used for dark deals? Can you substantiate that claim? Anon coins are created for dark markets. Believe me no one will use XMR which does not even have a direct fiat-xmr exchange for legal purposes For legal activity there is BTC which can be very easily purchased. Wrong. Monero has the ability to allow complete transparency if you choose to give it up. VIEW KEY. Just because the smoke screen is on by default and you can't see anything doesn't mean it can't be lifted if there is a need. |
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If such legit merchant processors as Bitpay and Coinbase reject dirty BTC, why do you think any crypto transaction processor will accept XMR payments if everyone knows that XMR is widely used for dark deals? The laws in every country are different and will impact the decisions of companies like Bitpay. If enough companies start to blacklist BTC then the acceleration to alternatives such as Monero will accelerate In the field of AML/KYC/Anti-terrorism all countries laws are relatively similar, so don`t expect that big companies will invest in stealth digital currencies. So stealth currencies will only be used in dark markets which is a very limited frame of usage. Two words: VIEW KEY |
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maybe the lesson here is not to trade on Skype?
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Now that is something new that I haven't thought of. Unless you are in the business of sabotaging bitcoin's reputation that could be seen as potential new area to focus on, in order to erode people's trust that they have on bitcoin.
Now let's review back on the potential loophole. Fungibilty... If you consider the issue on tainted coins you received without yourself knowing the history behind it, 'Yes' there's no denial that will be a problem. But however, on the flipside, it will not become an issue as long as coins get properly mixed and you are dealing only with reputable person. But chances it can still happen to you being victimized is still there.
Bitcoin can never be a perfect system, fiat neither but hey, those who are into the exploits business will use that to their full advantage.
So does this mean you think bitcoin developers will never implement a truly private and untraceable functionality (unlinkability and untraceability between addresses)? Monero does a pretty good job of this from what I have seen and experienced. And in no way am I trying to erode people's trust in bitcoin, just merely discussing the potential pitfalls when talking about fungibility. Like I've said I don't see it as a big issue. There are certainly more important things to worry about like the blocksize debate which we need to seek a consensus in order to move ahead. But I certainly see the fungibility part getting blown out of proportion and then exploited. Tiny issue become a big one. Monero is Monero. That is a feature. But having looked at bitcoin, I'm sure there is way by the developers to work something on it... which I think they are be in the position to comment, not me. I see it as a much bigger issue than the block size debate. The block size debate is based on what user's hiring bitcoin to increase the block size? Who is willing to pay for bitcoin to increase its block size and for what reason? Is there demand for this by new merchants I'm not aware of? I honestly think the implementation of "confidential transactions" or something that very closely mimics monero's fungibility would be more worthwhile. I agree at some point the block size needs to increase but I don't believe it is the biggest problem that bitcoin faces. Watch this video where Trace Mayer outlines a better focus the community should have right now and tell me what you think: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHXfEJD6DUkWe aren't even at full blocks and it has taken years to get nowhere in the "debate/discussion" of blocksize. I agree with Trace mayer when he says that the bitcoin block size debate is a waste of time, money, talent, and resources. |
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Now that is something new that I haven't thought of. Unless you are in the business of sabotaging bitcoin's reputation that could be seen as potential new area to focus on, in order to erode people's trust that they have on bitcoin.
Now let's review back on the potential loophole. Fungibilty... If you consider the issue on tainted coins you received without yourself knowing the history behind it, 'Yes' there's no denial that will be a problem. But however, on the flipside, it will not become an issue as long as coins get properly mixed and you are dealing only with reputable person. But chances it can still happen to you being victimized is still there.
Bitcoin can never be a perfect system, fiat neither but hey, those who are into the exploits business will use that to their full advantage.
So does this mean you think bitcoin developers will never implement a truly private and untraceable functionality (unlinkability and untraceability between addresses)? Monero does a pretty good job of this from what I have seen and experienced. And in no way am I trying to erode people's trust in bitcoin, just merely discussing the potential pitfalls when talking about fungibility. |
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I would remove Fungibility, bitcoin is the antithesis of fungibility.
How so? Every bitcoin is worth the same. Not to humans. I certainly wouldn't want to pay the spot price of bitcoin per coin if they were from a exchange hack or theft/scam. |
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LIke I said in the OP there will come a day when a new user will buy bitcoins (say locally for cash) and when he goes to use them at a business or exchange or where ever they will be rejected. Not 100% of the time...but it will happen and we all know how the media today loves to jump on anything bitcoin related that is negative.
For the millionth time this is only true if you choose to do business with a company who does not actually accept bitcoin but fiat. If you happen to transact with a user or a company in a peer-to-peer manner on the Bitcoin network there will never be such a thing as "transaction rejected". The fact that people will have to worry about which merchants will accepted all btc and which may reject btc based on some list is not a good thing for encouraging mass adoption. If BTC was perfectly fungible this concern would not exist. This is what I am getting at. If this exists then it should be solved if possible. If bitcoin does not solve it, something else will (or has). |
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You ignore the possibility that P2P transactions could exist where you are required by your government to run the paying address through something built on top of bitcoin (even just a website)
If people largely comply with that, we've already lost. The whole point of Bitcoin is that its permissionless and peer to peer. Well you can send coins on the blockchain in a permissionless way. That is doable. Satoshi never said it was a perfect system for interconnecting with the existing financial systems and with government oversight etc. |
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LIke I said in the OP there will come a day when a new user will buy bitcoins (say locally for cash) and when he goes to use them at a business or exchange or where ever they will be rejected. Not 100% of the time...but it will happen and we all know how the media today loves to jump on anything bitcoin related that is negative.
For the millionth time this is only true if you choose to do business with a company who does not actually accept bitcoin but fiat. If you happen to transact with a user or a company in a peer-to-peer manner on the Bitcoin network there will never be such a thing as "transaction rejected". Yeah that can be debunked as well. Say country X implements law Y that says everyone who uses bitcoin can't accept bitcoins from the List Z of blacklisted addresses. If A (only one) person chooses to adhere to that regulation, and someone tries to exchange between P2P ...and they are afraid of their government cracking down on them...it can and will happen. Your "never" presumption goes out the window. You ignore the possibility that P2P transactions could exist where you are required by your government to run the paying address through something built on top of bitcoin (even just a website) and it spits out a POSITIVE (GO signal to do transactions with that person) or NEGATIVE (stop signal to not do a transaction with that person). It is possible. Governments will think of ways to control every aspect of a market if they can. |
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Any bitcoin business that went along with say adding code that obfuscated transactions to a point that there is unlinkability and untraceability would have problems with regulators assuming they were AML/KYC compliant etc or whatever the regulation is.
There lies the issue with your logic. In the world we are heading for these type of things don't exist. This is what I mean when I propose you are too mindfucked on fiat to see straight. At the chance you have cared to read and didn't quite grok this part this is what Mircea means here: First off, I do understand why you would think there is. Honestly. You're used to a certain system, you grew up in a certain system, you expect the trappings of that system anywhere you go.
Ever gone camping, fishing, hiking, and turned your eyes looking for the faucet or power outlet or wifi modem lights or whatever ? Sure, rationally you know and understand that you're in the bellybutton of fucking nowhere, and there never was and never existed such a thing as you're looking for within a hundred miles. Nevertheless, at some level, your brain expects that faucet. What do you mean nobody has ever laid a hundred miles of pipe/cable/bacon trails all the way to right over here ?! Impossibru! http://trilema.com/2014/guidance-there-is-no-such-thing-as-bitcoin-taint/#selection-39.0-45.507Just because I used that example does not mean it doesn't exist to have legal implications elsewhere. let's say it is outlawed to deal in blacklisted addresses determined by your local government...yes you can move but to a certain degree what if that happens in that other country? How exactly do you propose they enforce this blacklist. Simple I don't propose they do. But it is possible it could happen. I'm telling you they can't. Just because you say something doesn't make it true. I believe it is possible. I'm sure some people thought that something called the "income tax" was impossible...it is unjust in my mind but it exists. Governments these days are getting away with a lot, so I believe there are things we wouldnt dream would be put into place and enforced upon us. What you are saying is absolute nonsense. The only possible ways to enforce blacklists into Bitcoin is to hard code them in the protocol. Otherwise any peer on the network can transact with any other peer and his bitcoin will not be subjected to any discrimination whatsoever. Any other scenario involves trust in a third party which means you are really in fact not using Bitcoin at all. Who said they were going to enforce blacklists into Bitcoin...and not ON TOP OF BITCOIN? Ever heard of building upon bitcoin? |
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I agree that if it is because of the block size issue they do need to grow but they should give credit where credit is due.
If they are using bitcoin as the network to jump start their company and to facilitate money transfers they should say how they are doing it even in a general sense.
I watched the video and yup they are really trying to distance themselves from bitcoin.
Wow just wow...
Unfortunatly this may be a sign of things to come. There is a chilling silence from Winklevoss twins and thier ETF for example. I have sold over 99% of my Bitcoins for a combination of Monero and Canadian Dollars, not because of fungibility, but because of the 1 MB blocksize issue. I understand where Circle is coming from. Edit: The real problem is: How will Bitcoin develop a fee market once the emission runs out? This is the real reason why there has not been a solution to the blocksize issue. Good point. How can you have a fee market with no block reward? |
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does "total transactions" include the block reward? Or actual transactions? |
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I honestly think it is a pretty big issue. Of course overall it isn't wide spread but it could get that way. People will lose faith if they can't spend bitcoins they bought because of blacklists. |
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i would not upgrade.
Too many issues and unknowns concerning privacy.
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Fat Tay Choon went to the Mining Academy in Brazil, east of Satoshi's yurt, where Gavin was kidnapped by the CIA's goons and forced to pretend fucking an anonymous decentralized biscuit—better than all the fish in the Pacific Ocean—but also to defray leeches intelligently with ECDSA fighting qubits for 16.8 dree12, or Phinnaeus must fling toilets towards psy‐ops, without potato smoothies mixed with fried chicken wings from BitMunchies.com, urbanchickennj.com, and Popeye's Bitcoin wallet, which deleted Satoshi's premine ability to cheer very victoriously, none like Butterfly Labs better enabled, but also Pirate crashing AIR applications without the express use of interest-free scams, conspiring with fraudulent sockpuppets and PPTs and..., you troll-herding piece of Shiitake mushroom, go lick Goat's horns until Theymos admits to having a quite erotic fetish involving honey badgers wearing thongs composed of soggy burlap waffles dangling from cosmic linoleum-based iphones running quantum chips explodes spewing deadly acid! b!z screamed out "Light is bright like...like... stars." When Markjamrobin opens the isolated window, he sees three pigs together in bed. Kouye and myself laugh when chinese food falls the impact kills Obama Bin ladin whoever thinks he may be terrorist, is correct but hates the bitcoin logo. Earth has snakes. Currently, the other species have decimated to tiny groups called "marko solo" whatever time it all comes and ends? However, Bitcoin's acidity level dipped causing catastrophic double-spends!
Meanwhile, AntiOps was confused by the awkward change to his penis melting uncontrollably. Vanilla Ice perfume spritzed onto cheese and greasy slime covered with babies boiled in a smelly old heatsink. But it tasted like shit therefore it poisoned his blood although he did survive. Reproductive organisms attacked the internal testicle which caused terrible congestion somehow. Evolution then terminated the smelly old business thank the inability of AntiOps to lock Satoshi's thread. In a transactional forum there was a debate about hacking unprotected accounts, however the debate shortly ended.
Phinnaeus Gage, king pluto, duke of the people. Returned one of his loans that he fraudulently claimed without declaring intentionally. Although this was bullshit. Earth was hit by a meteor which cause catastrophic events which cause people to cause mass destruction by proxy voting it was documented recently on the news that oranges are disguised anti-gravity pockets which have giant bears attacked Zeus because bitcoin accidentally crashed to Mars which created spaceships and aliens who pretended being humans wearing hats on their toes.
Altcoin suck on apples and oranges too. Megacoin is the most shit sucker of apples and melons ever. Most people love to troll others. Evolution is a slow process which created forks. It is beneficial to wash your feet because it distributes bacteria and oil, notwithstanding the beneficial attributes which are how chocolate arouses some of the miners brains. Today was an abysmal event which caused many abnormal but not smart bitcoiners because many of them are cute animals who were insane because of excessive oreo consumption. One watermelon is not love how people try me explotation Maybe Heisenberg Breaking bad control guy director or masturbation my time vampire drinks urine not lemon tek and water supernatural.
LEALANA is fat looking because pizza is sour with pickles which are sexy and never rot. So many people eat pizza it's unbelievable. The news said that pizza is bought mainly with anchovies which results in big wet weather which had massive gusts of wind with pouring milk down on everyones throat because it feels great! Although honey is very sweet taste it makes when it is served hot it melts softly but slowly.
The universe is populated with many planets which were destroyed by pirateat40. Cyborgs then warped to the zoo and ate mushroom with a aerospace technician. Bitcoin has used a lot resources from peoples although people smell like melons.
Ipods suck. Androids rule. Altcoins also suck peanuts. Bitcoin is the greatest idea that has ever been created by man although litecoin sucks? Once upon a time Gandalf went to wal-mart to dry her hair. Minecraft is the best game in universe because chickens cluck. 231134421 is one crazy big ass monkey. What is with people posting replies still. Terraria is a crazy game which requires extreme concentration. This can result in health cubes; Parentheses are a pain in the brain. This noodle is disgusting. Although spaceships cry waterfalls they are magical little elves. Golden towns is very annoying and smell like bacon. Celebrities are awesome and smart. But, evolution taught us that butterflys are ugly.
Vitamin D is important to scam Taras and raise taxes which would cause the world to go crazy but not insane. Obama is the president now. Alot of gamers will illustrate sony that nintendo is leading the infiltration of Iran. Microsoft Windows was salivating pedophiles of the coastal farts. Yet the banana shrank. What was doge poo doing under the bridge with bridge cleaner? He was just he's aren't because something something different like seems incorrect, because we fucked. Yet prunes prunes are very bad lad's yet unknown to fuckers SWEARING. Banana monkey is not virgin-horse. Corn.
This disappoints satan more than satoshi because he ate hydrochloric pools and he fucked whores who are sick shemales shemales shemales BANGCOCK! God smited non-believers with dicks on a stick. They shat together sitting upside-down flicking birdies. Baezl'bub slept with Hitler inside a bomb ticking furiously and hodling. That was awesome. Bitmit made belt so that walruses can shit on his dick and eat mushroom full of wonderful shit, he HODL'd BTCs and Dogecoin with a succubus sperm from first blowjob stories.
Nefarious words spoken shit at bitcointalk and destroyed uranus with a big-ass Spaceship mouth that eats goats flying shuttle that revolves expressly and quietly to hell. Gamma flux destroyed Litecoin with a barracks producing Atreides shit and Kadafi. Same Binladen puppet goxed clients sucking lollipops shaped like mixed frapuccino lids. Goku start this fight prematurely in Odessa Klondike's yard. Winter is not shitty. Gooches. Seven. Humanity sold pubes to Zeus. Nevertheless, Cinnamon was crying. Millennium breakdown caused diversification methheads cardinally. Hyper-inflation, epidemics with marshmallows made by government chodes and yeah. The End. No. Yes. Lies. Stop. Can. Do aliens have any bitcoins? No. Instead, PPC acts quickly like FTL shit, riffraff toys.
Miracles happen like cannibals spitting sinew and elephants which innocent love and shit has never fucked up! Dank has killed bysexuals... wait, when did Karpeles said/say McDonald's sucks? Colonel Tom sex-machine The 3.14159265358th must fook anything that goes into a section. Beaware of spellcheckers. Fantômas portuguese are sobriquet of Fernão who called them Coads-nigs! They say we are azoth, biblical tittynopes who can't mine the janiceps'. He biblically took Rosenzweig and ended this game. And then wanked, wanked clitoris next door. This was done. Moreover, crack was rapidly dephosphorylated due to complications anhidrotically, metaphorically whores go mooooooooo and ahhhhhhhhhhhhh while jon snow watch has ended this thread for good.
Not... Actually, maybe futuristically, Vod (MIA) sailing CASASCIUS up Padma Lakshmi's waxed butt and... Nevermind, but acknowledging that Gavin held security. This marks, categorically, that will create scientific controvertist of global heliolatry problems indistinguishably noticeable filipino heritage, unbeknownst to Slenderman XT phenomena. GLEB sucked smoothie's brains using juicy zombies, dicks, Popsicles, and alien vaginas to rotten flesh of Vod. Meanwhile, giant marsupials are having suicidal sex appeal for four tentacles, watching child whoopee. Therefore, vegetables are unpretentiously super[...]docious. Fruits are rotten potatoes, avouchment vouched x10 malware because aliens kidnapped JarJar, mercilessly LeFodorliar and Gleb Gamow lived days along seashore, Theymos abused his Authoritah by forcing a purple pill To Fly! Serendipitously, awsome! Then I started UFOing on their ass, savagely. But, it is impeccable to realize I farted psychedelic asparagus smoothies. However, Mexico is shit and... Rephrase that, corporations syria declared terrorists irreproachable because malevolence misappropriates monetary suffrage suggesting termination.
Meanwhile, yogurt spill has begun to fall onto houses and cars, hawkishly attempting to grab two crayons, inserting phallic Popsicles® into Theymos' abysm until... POOP! The excruciating pain took aeons to appreciate plethoric folliculitis silvestris poop generator. Why nidificate the indigenous spirit called "erection"? Prepossessingly, pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis a discomfortable endoplasmic tumescent pineapple tree branch rectally QuickSeller escrow. Involution, presumptuously titin pop up inconsiderately - Tuesday - when pokemon (Pokémon)'s Pikachu flashbacked borders dementia caused horrendous pain inside Agumon's PocketPussy™.
Daft Punk punked Dank with pussy heavy hookah shot whilst levitating abroad oceans blue that fadedly waved the unseen quote yet cited. Unjust superexcrescences excuses me because of Neotox produced such force by Poseidon's Trident of Taured. Now, albeit-albeit DARKCOIN-SCAMCOIN but tried to interlock coins out of your anal cavity filled lordly exponentially with bold pumpkins wiggling back to school days yesterday morning. Onomatopoeias ate language. Rigveda inside coupons collectively jumped over the "Core Mission". Pussies annihilate doge.
Pythons and anacondas don't squirt unless you got into buns coin phlegm on their tongues. Why did GLEB
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