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3041  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: 90 minutes for 1 block... on: October 19, 2012, 04:29:05 AM
We need a feedback mechanism to minimize very long rounds (and less importantly, very short rounds). I have proposed this before.

Instead of collecting transaction fee, miners will use transaction fee to offset part of the mining difficulty. For example, today's difficulty is about 3,000,000 ("baseline difficulty") and block reward is 50BTC. If the total transaction fee is 0.1BTC, which is 0.2% of block reward, the miner will only need to mine the block with difficulty = 3,000,000*(1-0.002) = 2,994,000 (effective difficulty).

In the 90-minutes block, the transaction fee was 0.612BTC, which would reduce the effective difficulty and expected block discovery time by 1.22%.

This scheme will also minimize very short rounds: at the beginning of rounds which transaction fee is zero, the effective difficulty is equal to the baseline difficulty. The effective difficulty will decrease as transaction fee accumulates. Therefore, it is more difficult to mine at the beginning of rounds. This will also punish those miners who refuse to include transactions in their blocks.

The fee will contribute to the mining reward in the far future, which will slow down the depletion of the mining reward.

… so … the miners would include transactions (of course without broadcasting these) with many Ƀs in transaction fees, just to reduce their personal difficulty. As every miner will put all his coins into such fake transactions, we would thus end up in proof of stake disguised as proof of work mining Grin Grin

The miners may do so but they won't get their coins back since the transaction fee will subsidize future block reward. Doing this is equivalent to reduce mining variance by receiving less reward. It is also very risky when the block becomes orphaned and the whole world will see those transactions. We may also have a limit for the amount of difficulty reduced.
3042  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: China: Block origin/relay on: October 19, 2012, 03:04:21 AM
And another one in asia, this time in japan.

Seems like BTC (Mining) is spreading through asia.

That means nothing. Most people are pool mining and you never know where they are
3043  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: 90 minutes for 1 block... on: October 18, 2012, 03:32:03 PM
We need a feedback mechanism to minimize very long rounds (and less importantly, very short rounds). I have proposed this before.

Instead of collecting transaction fee, miners will use transaction fee to offset part of the mining difficulty. For example, today's difficulty is about 3,000,000 ("baseline difficulty") and block reward is 50BTC. If the total transaction fee is 0.1BTC, which is 0.2% of block reward, the miner will only need to mine the block with difficulty = 3,000,000*(1-0.002) = 2,994,000 (effective difficulty).

In the 90-minutes block, the transaction fee was 0.612BTC, which would reduce the effective difficulty and expected block discovery time by 1.22%.

This scheme will also minimize very short rounds: at the beginning of rounds which transaction fee is zero, the effective difficulty is equal to the baseline difficulty. The effective difficulty will decrease as transaction fee accumulates. Therefore, it is more difficult to mine at the beginning of rounds. This will also punish those miners who refuse to include transactions in their blocks.

The fee will contribute to the mining reward in the far future, which will slow down the depletion of the mining reward.
3044  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: China: Block origin/relay on: October 18, 2012, 02:55:16 PM
There's nothing to surprise. There are many miners in China and one of the most famous FPGA designer is Chinese.
3045  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: colored bitcoins/distributed exchanges proof-of-concept on: October 17, 2012, 04:36:53 PM
Bitcoin uses ECDSA for keypairs, and this is not an encryption scheme.  Just a digital signature scheme.

In theory it is possible to use same key for ECDSA and for ECDH, and ECDH can be used for encryption:

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4969570/is-there-a-difference-between-ecdh-and-ecdsa-keys

I'm not sure that particular version of ECDSA used in Bitcoin allows that, though.

I don't think the colored coin trading system requires any message encryption. Those orders and announcements should be public. If encryption is required, people can simply use GPG
3046  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: colored bitcoins/distributed exchanges proof-of-concept on: October 17, 2012, 08:45:28 AM
I am not sure if this has been mentioned by someone else. To make the decentralized exchange works, we need a standard peer-to-peer protocol to broadcast all the required information: IPO invitations, definition of assets, ask/bid orders, and cancellation of such orders. It's just like how transactions and blocks broadcasting on the bitcoin network. All messages should be signed by the private key of associated bitcoin addresses and/or GPG. For example, IPO and asset definition should be signed by GPG of issuer, and ask/bid orders should be signed by addresses holding enough bitcoin or colored bitcoin for completing the trade.

The peer-to-peer client should be able to check the validity of ask/bid orders. It should also generate raw transaction based on colored coin trading rules, allow transmission of partially singed transaction among the trading parties, and broadcast the completed transaction to the bitcoin network. It should also work as a bot, which will automatically sign transactions based on user instruction.

The efficiency of such system is a big concern. Some user may post a valid ask/bid order but never complete the transaction. Some user may try to double spend their bitcoins or colored bitcoins. Therefore, we need a peer-to-peer rating system to keep a track record of the traders, based on the bicoin addresses or GPG key used.

 
3047  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: Blockchain security tracking/colored coins/smart contracts - short python script on: October 14, 2012, 04:44:49 AM
As I'm looking at issuing coloured coins based on the ownership of over $4,000 of ASIC's how do I prove ownership of the issued coloured coins permanently taking into account of hardware failures.

The most important concept to remember is that colored coins are like rules of the road:  they only work because everybody agrees on what side of the road to drive.  There is no law of physics preventing cars from driving in the opposing lane of traffic.  There is no software rule preventing you from using your colored coins to buy Alpaca socks at a web shop.

The basic process works like this:

1. Publicly declare a list of coins in the existing blockchain as colored.
2. Transfer the colored coins to their new owners.  These new owners may freely transfer them to other owners.
3. If the colored coin transfer follows the Colored Coin Rules(tm), software may search the blockchain, and precisely identify the list of colored coin holders.
4. If the colored coin transfer does not follow the Colored Coin Rules(tm), then that person is essentially "burning the money", by making it impossible to track the colored coin beyond a certain point.

It is up to each colored coin owner to keep track of their own public keys.  All other information is stored in the public blockchain.



I think a better version of rule 4 should be: If the colored coin transfer does not follow the Colored Coin Rules(tm), the last owner retains the extra value of the colored coin. (i.e. the last owner will still receive dividend etc.) However, that person may no longer transfer the extra value to other owners. The issuer may re-issue a new colored coin to the last owner to replace the burnt one, with or without service fee charged.

This will prevent most "money burning accident".
3048  Economy / Goods / Re: Steam Games, Softwares and More for BTC on: October 14, 2012, 04:15:38 AM
I think I'm the third one. May I have a free game?

Resident Evil 5 for you. Done!

Got Resident Evil 5 free. Thanks so much!
3049  Economy / Goods / Re: Steam Games, Softwares and More for BTC on: October 13, 2012, 04:25:33 PM
I think I'm the third one. May I have a free game?
3050  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: colored bitcoins/distributed exchanges proof-of-concept on: October 12, 2012, 11:03:35 AM
You understand nothing.

A meltmining laundry can melt a small number of coins every block it finds.

¿You say you can adapt your taint software to find the unusual fee transactions?

Ok, I say that I will send 2 to 5 tainted BTC fees in the next block and wait to be mined by p2pool or Deepbit.

¿What do you think will the miners do when they start getting their accounts freezed in MtGox because your taint lists and software? They can't dodge the tainted melting coins fake transaction I made and they can't prove they aren't the melting launderers.

So the tainted coins list/software adoption is the beginning of the end of bitcoin.


The colored coin algorithms do not violate any part of the bitcoin protocol. Instead, it is exactly how bitcoin works: you can trace every satoshi back to its generation to make sure there is no counterfeit. The untraceability of bitcoin is just your fantasy. If you believe this is the end of bitcoin, you don't understand bitcoin at all and you should sell.

Back to genius melting pool. You cannot broadcast your melting transactions as usual. You have to mine your own block to include them. These "hidden transaction" could be spotted out by monitoring the network. If there are lots of such transactions, that would looks suspicious. The difference between a legitimate miner and a laundering miner is: those hidden transactions will never go to a legitimate miner.

Also, to launder merely 1BTC (which is basically nothing in the world of money laundering), you need 200 transactions. With only 144 blocks each day, how many TH/s do you have?

You mention TOR. Yes, a much easier way is to launder through SR.
3051  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: colored bitcoins/distributed exchanges proof-of-concept on: October 11, 2012, 05:34:40 PM
In the last 2023 blocks, only 26 were orphaned. That's about 1,3% odds of loosing all the meltmined coins (to a lucky miner). I prefer a 1% chance of loosing the melted coins than your tainted coin system. Tainted coins will affect all the bitcoin economy badly but meltmining pools only have a 1% chance to loose the block. I insist, tainting coins is a very bad idea because it will hurt all the bitcoin economy and the solution is not so risky for a melting transaction.

Bro, again, this has absolutely NOTHING to do with tainting. You have no idea what you're talking about.

He absolutely have no idea what he's talking about. He thinks coins are magically laundered by using as transaction fee. Transaction fee is nothing more than a reduced value of the output. If someone tries to melt some dirty coins by sending unreasonably high fee, the block reward will simply become dirty. Not to mention that setting up a coin melting pool cannot stop people using colored coins, unless he is able to spend coins that are not belonging to him.

However, I still hope he will set up a pool like that, so I may be able to grab some of those easy coins.
FTFY

There are some tricks you can play though if you have the mining power to create a block in a reasonable time. Then you can deliberately include transactions which increase the noise level and make it hard for any tracing software to infer the origin of coins. If done right, the tracing of the coins you want to launder becomes unpractical.

The standard fee at this moment is only 0.005BTC. To launder 1BTC without paying suspiciously high fee will take 200 transactions. You can't put these into the same block or it will become too obvious, and you need to generate more than 100 blocks for laundering only 1BTC. Even worse, the FBI may just monitor all unconfirmed transactions on the network. If they find many "hidden transactions" that were not broadcast to the network before they appeared in a block, they will further investigate that particular miner.
3052  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: colored bitcoins/distributed exchanges proof-of-concept on: October 11, 2012, 04:56:26 PM
In the last 2023 blocks, only 26 were orphaned. That's about 1,3% odds of loosing all the meltmined coins (to a lucky miner). I prefer a 1% chance of loosing the melted coins than your tainted coin system. Tainted coins will affect all the bitcoin economy badly but meltmining pools only have a 1% chance to loose the block. I insist, tainting coins is a very bad idea because it will hurt all the bitcoin economy and the solution is not so risky for a melting transaction.

Bro, again, this has absolutely NOTHING to do with tainting. You have no idea what you're talking about.

He absolutely have no idea what he's talking about. He thinks coins are magically laundered by using as transaction fee. Transaction fee is nothing more than a special type of output. If someone tries to melt some dirty coins by sending unreasonably high fee, the block reward will simply become dirty. Not to mention that setting up a coin melting pool cannot stop people using colored coins, unless he is able to spend coins that are not belonging to him.

However, I still hope he will set up a pool like that, so I may be able to grab some of those easy coins.
3053  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: Blockchain security tracking/colored coins/smart contracts - short python script on: October 10, 2012, 04:19:41 PM
There are now many threads about "colored coins", "smart contracts" and otherwise tracking specific coins through the blockchain.



I think it is because the fail of GLBSE. The next generation of bitcoin security exchange will be colored-coin-based p2p system. The role of a centralized exchange (if any) is to facilitate bid/ask matching, to advertise IPO, and to rate the trustworthiness of security issuers.
3054  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Unique serial number for every single satoshi on: October 10, 2012, 04:07:03 PM
Then you should add this rule explicitly to your scheme: if a coin is decolorized, the last holder retains the value of the colored coin. The issuer may issue a new token to the last holder on request (service charge may apply).

Good point. But I work mostly on "low-level" stuff, I'll forward this consideration to people who work on app level.

I think my scheme provide (much) higher anonymity. Imagine a secret society use this system for some secret trading etc., they can embed some colored satoshis in a normal size transaction, and it will just look like an ordinary transaction. With some tailor made algorithm, they may even "swap" the color of two satoshis. You system has more strict requirements. The dust inputs and outputs with special order could be spotted out easily from the blockchain.
3055  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Unique serial number for every single satoshi on: October 10, 2012, 11:18:48 AM
There is one more advantage: the color information won't lose if coins with different color are mixed.

Why do you think it's a good thing? If we don't want them to be mixed, they can be mixed only accidentally.

So, if accident happens, with order-based coloring you get uncolored output, so information is destroyed. Now if they represented something valuable, issuer can issue a new token and give it to last holder after he learns about an accident. So accident is resolved by issuer.

With your scheme, some random party might get ownership of valuable coins in case of accident. Yes, they won't be destroyed, but is lottery really a way to resolve this?

Then you should add this rule explicitly to your scheme: if a coin is decolorized, the last holder retains the value of the colored coin. The issuer may issue a new token to the last holder on request (service charge may apply).
3056  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Unique serial number for every single satoshi on: October 10, 2012, 10:44:04 AM
As I understand, this is largely compatible with order-based coin coloring, i.e. as long as transactions adhere to order-based coloring rules this proposal and order-based coloring will produce identical results.

The only practical advantage I see is that it's possible to pay fees with colored coins, i.e. miner can take advantage of coins' color.

However we I'm not convinced that we need this more complex system just to handle fees, since there are some ways to use colored coins for fees with order-based coloring.

There is one more advantage: the color information won't lose if coins with different color are mixed.
3057  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Unique serial number for every single satoshi on: October 10, 2012, 03:23:18 AM
Given an algorithm like this, one could effectively say that every satoshi is already numbered, it's just that nobody has yet bothered to calculate it.  That wouldn't change it.

If I were going to number each satoshi, I probably wouldn't bother to number them with the block.  I'd just number them from 0, and consider the genesis block to be satoshis 0 thru 4999999999 (despite them technically being unspendable).  The proceeds of block 1 would be 5000000000 (5e9) thru 9999999999(1e10-1).

The last satoshi of the block with 50 BTC reward would be 1049999999999999 (50*210000*1e8-1).

Block 210000 would be 1050000000000000 - 1050002499999999, spanning a total of 25*1e8 satoshis.



Good. We may transform it to Base-58 format, which will take 9 characters. We may also add 3 characters as checksum
3058  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Order of inputs/outputs in transaction and order of transactions in block on: October 10, 2012, 02:58:35 AM
Assuming we have an unsigned standard transaction with 2 inputs (A, followed by B) and 2 outputs (C, followed by D). After the input A is signed, is it possible to alter the order of inputs or outputs without voiding the A signature? (Obviously we cannot alter the order of inputs / outputs AFTER the transaction is recorded in the blockchain since that will change the transaction hash and will be regarded as double-spend. My question is about altering the order before the transaction is broadcast, or when it is partially signed)

Similarly, when a correct nonce is found for a block, will changing the order of transactions within the block voiding it? (I guess it will since it should change the block hash. Just want to confirm)

Thanks!
3059  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: colored bitcoins/distributed exchanges proof-of-concept on: October 09, 2012, 02:33:41 PM
every single satoshi is still traceable to its generation block
is this true? are you sure?

It depends on how do you define it. For example, with my proposal https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=117224.0 , it is possible to trace every satoshi. With other definition, you may conclude that a satoshi is associated with a finite number of blocks. No matter how defined, all satoshi must be linked to one or some block generation, or that means bitcoin could be generated without proof-of-work.
3060  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: colored bitcoins/distributed exchanges proof-of-concept on: October 09, 2012, 02:19:41 PM
Every now and then appears someone with the "new" idea of tainting coins. It's a very bad idea for multiple reasons. God, use the search button and you'll find a lot of threads about tainting.

What we need is an add-on for the Satoshi client and for the usual mining software to allow people melt-mining coins. That way we prevent the next "visionary" to taint our coins.

Melt-mining: mine a block and add a selfmadetransaction with all the coins you want to "melt" as fees. You need a tweaked client that prevents the selmadetransaction to be broadcasted but in your brand new mined block.

BITCOINS MUST BE FUNGIBLE.

Thank you. Taint was the word I was looking for.

Bank notes being traceable is one of the problems with them. When you use cash it is supposed to not be traceable. Using bitcoins should be just like using cash anonymously, at least as much as possible.

With the blockchain structure, bitcoins are actually LESS anonymous than cash. Even you may launder your coins, every single satoshi is still traceable to its generation block (or people can print bitcoin out of thin air). You can't just close your eyes and ignore the blockchain and say bitcoin is not (or should not be) traceable.

If you want increased anonymity, there are some proposal like automatic coin mixing. But that is your own choice.
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