One more thing to keep in mind is that many old gears are "stuck" in the "wrong" place, think of the guy who owns old gears such as 80w/th efficient and worse, that guy had to turn off his mining gears during the 2018 crash, that guy is located in Europe or in Newzealand where the power rate is 8-10 cents per kwh, selling his old gears means he has to ship them overseas, the price of shipping to where power is low enough to accept those gears is out of the question, so what does he do? turn them off and leave them be.

I would guess that there is at least 5-10EH of those guys, and they will eventually come back online as the price moves higher.

Another thing is dead gears that can be fixed for really cheap like the S9s, I personally have a lot of broken gears that I just don't want to fix now because it isn't worth it, but when and if bitcoin price is at say 50k I will take "fixing mining" as my primary daily job and fix every hash board I have.

The good news is those gears are small and thousands of them need to come online before they start affecting the difficulty badly, what worries me is the Jan-March 5nm gears that are going to be shipped, those gears are 100th on average, but until then, let's enjoy.

Well, I do understand he based the 10 mins based on the average block time, but this isn't really what I asked, Stavroski was asking about "this round of work", the hash which your miner tries to "brute force" isn't static throughout the block-time aka 10 mins, so whenever there is the slightest change in any of the block components, for example, a new transaction is added/removed the whole "round of work" is reset, and if Stavroski is asking about how close was he to solving a block based on the difficulty target at that given time (which is also a possibility) then this change would only happen once every 2 weeks (2016 blocks), but either way, 10 mins has really nothing to do with the stats of your miner, unless I am missing something.

I would like to understand where do the 10 mins come from? based on this


By "this round of work" it means the status will change every time the merkle root changes which could be every 10 seconds as opposed to 10 mins, I hope we all understand that while we all are trying to solve the same block - every one is bascailly finding a different soluation to a different "combination".

I have been using this every day, so let me take this chance to thank you again for this great tool.

On a side but related note; the warning on the website is hard to notice, I think many people will miss it, I would center it and use a larger font size.

Good luck.

These reasons alone are enough to gain negative feedback at least according to my book, and thus I left them one, reselling miners isn't easy, the reseller deals with unreliable manufacturers who usually don't meet the promised delivery dates, as a reseller you should compensate your clients, you would at least respond in timely manners rather than ignoring your clients, to me, Miners.eu are not to be trusted.

It must be the old firmware that does that? the recent firmware versions will not start hasing if both fans are not in great "shape".

The 30,000 rpm it shows is kind of pretty normal for non-stock fans, i had the same readings on many used S9s, but your point makes sense, i would still check the fans, the miner seems to be rebooting and thus anything from a bad fan to a dirty psu will do that.

I would keep this, at last, it's unlikely that OP is facing a connection/network related issue, and here is my reasoning:

- Two different mining pools reporting the same problem
- It was a sudden problem and nothing new (according to my understanding of his words).

based on that, the issue seems to be constant rebooting, when the miner goes into a reboot cycle, the hashrate on the pool will be really low, this is the first suspect, what gives this theory more strength is the fact that the miner's run time is pretty small.

I see blackware solutions on telegram mining groups offering hosting/colocation services all the time, in the groups where I am most active, I always see Mason (one of their founders) and he is trusted by the community, we talked a few times and he seems nice and serious, and most importantly (to you at least) is that they are located in the U.S, so you could probably pay them a visit and check their hosting facilities and all that, I am not sure about their terms and prices and all that but they are the only once I could think of, you could also reach out to Scott and Kaboomracks, they are large scale resellers, both post in the market place/hardware section and both are located in the U.S so they likely know more about hosting services in the U.S than most of us, there are other people outside of the U.S that offer hosting services, but that comes with a great risk which you seem to be fully aware of.

First thing you to do, avoid nicehash, at least while troubleshooting the miner, and then post the kernel log using the code function


I also noticed that the runtime is only 22 mins in the image you uploaded, did you manually reboot the miner?

That seems like a robust transformer, price is a bit on the high end, it will work great for the old Microbt gears, the newer generations, however, require more than 3000w so a 3kVA transformer isn't going to cut it unless ran on LPM (assuming the gear has that).

110v isn't good for mining by any means, all the extra cost that comes with these transformers will make it harder for you to make a profit, if you want to mine BTC get 220-240v.

The bold part is pretty much the summary of my previous post, I went into great detail to explain how inaccurate those mining profitability calculators are when used to estimate the future outcome, there isn't anything they can do since the future is unknown, but you as someone who is studying a business plan should consider the unseen and the unknown.


Of course, they do, but they only take the current difficulty which could be much different an hour later (assuming we are about to adjust to a new difficulty target), the longest period for these calculators to be accurate would be 2015 blocks or about 2 weeks, if you happen to use them at block 1 of any given epoch, the result they show will be 100% accurate for 2015 blocks, they can't be any more accurate future wise.

That's good news, I was waiting for this block for this very reason, it feels great that the new server is doing the job just fine.


Maybe he owns those gears

---

Congratulations to "brain brain" for hitting the first block on the new server, lets get block 258 soon.

Yes, except that depending on your luck, your gear could do a bit more or less, but the variance is too little and thus we can ignore it.


It is pretty high.


Here comes the problem, or at least a part of it, technical and physical wise with all economics ignored, there is NOTHING that guarantees a miner to run that long, while it's possible - it isn't an average by any means, so it's very unrealistic to expect that your mining gear will run at full speed for two years, there is no perfect way of estimating this, but the safest approach would be that your gear will run at no extra expenses as long as it's under warranty, after that it can either die on you, lose a hash board or a PSU and thus requires more expenses that would mess the whole rainbow scenario that you drew.

In fact, even when it's under warranty, you will lose time, from opening a repair ticket to actually receiving the gear back, a few months can pass by.

I know some people will argue that taking the 6 months warranty period as the max free-expense period is way too conservative, but this is really the only rational way I can think of, remember that you are dealing with mining gears that are made in China with little to no regulations or quality control, many of us received DOA gears, many of us had gears that died 1 week later, thinking that you will be super lucky with a mining gear that will run for 2 years troubles-free is simply betting against the odds and that is no good for business.


Perfect, that's how it should be IMO.


I don't want to milk this all over again, so refer to the previous part, also check my topic regarding my S9ks that came DOA, also my posts regarding Chinese miners having hundreds of dead gears after running them for a very short period of time, look around and you will see that 2 years is just isn't likely even thought it's possible.


This is another major issue, you can't get S19 pro for $2684 not while profit is looking this great, S19 pro is $4500 in China, and it's not ready to ship, you got to wait till January (assuming bitmain sends those gears anyway), so let's just assume you can avoid tax by getting it from Malaysia and shipping is free, so re-do the math with $4500.


I have not checked the math, but I would trust that you know how to use a simple online calculator like whatmine.com and that you entered the right power rate, the numbers don't look too far-stretched anyway, so the math seems correct, but the logic is off by a bit, allow me to take you the future and back with this chart.



This is the difficulty chart, I want to imagine that you came here, asking this question exactly two years ago (based on your 2 years assumptions), so that would be 11-12-2018.

The difficulty was 5.6T, at the time the S15 just came out and the price of Bitcoin was about $4000 and the S15 went for about $1500 which was 0.37 bitcoin back then, if you run the math back then it would give you 0.00064 daily or 0.467 BTC in two years, or 0.1 profit (27% profit on top of your investment), but guess what? non of that shit would have happened because the difficulty grew by 250%, so while it made 0.00064BTC daily back in Dec 2018, it only made 0.00028BTC in Dec 2019 when diff was 12.8T (-56.25% drop) and it will only make 0.00019BTC daily in Dec 2020.

Remember, this assumes that it did indeed run perfectly for 2 years, which is unlikely, oh and by the way, those figures didn't include any power bill, just a 4% pool fee, so when you add the power cost to it, 90% of people who paid 0.37BTC for an S15 did not make 0.37BTC as of today.

Looking into the future when it's 2022, this chart can only be looking similar, a guy who buys S19 pro for 4.5k does the math of 19T difficulty, only to realize that difficulty has gone up exponentially and his S19 pro didn't actually mine for 2 years.

To be successful in mining you need:

1- Have a very low power rate.
2- Buy the right gear at the right price and time.

You don't have a cheap power rate, and as of now, Bitcoin mining is tempting, the demand on mining gears is pretty high, the supply on the other hand is low, it's just about the worst time to be investing in bitcoin mining, but that's just my opinion and own analysis that could turn out to be wrong 2 years from now, you can bet against it, and I will have to wish you a lot of luck because you will really need it.

What power range are you looking for? since you are considering M21s then you don't seem to care much about the efficiency, if that is case, why not get 5*S9j and underclock them, going under 470 in the frequency and about 8 volts you should achieve about 70w per th, which isn't far away from the M21s' efficiency of 60w/th, price wise, S9j wins big time.

Current used gear prices in China

M21s 56th = $900
S9j 14.5th = $90

at 70w per terahash S9j won't be doing 14.5th, it will be doing the only 10th, so you will need 5 of them, the total cost will be $450, you will pay more for shipping 5 miners as opposed to a single miner, but you will get a total of 5 PSUs / 5 Control boards and 15 hash boards as opposed of 1 PSU and control board and only 3 hash boards, if you lose a board on those S9js your loss is only 1/15, one board on the M21s is 33%, a PSU failure on M21s is 100% failure while on S9j it's only 20%.

My way of doing the math when purchasing mining gears is a bit weird and many people think it's funny, but to me, the points I explained above really mean something, I would buy S9js over M21s every single day of the year if the price difference is this large and I wouldn't really care about the extra total power consumption of 0.5Kwh.

That is a tough question to answer, and there isn't really a confirmed answer, for the 17 series I can speak with a high level of confidence that the failure rate is 30% easily, this isn't based only on my own experience but it's the opinion of large miners in China who reported these results, even Jihan Wu admitted how terrible the quality on those gears was and he blamed Micree for that, I made a whole post regarding that subject look it around.

For obvious reasons, many of those 17 series have been fixed, so we can't say 30% of them are out of the game, other gears like the S9 can easily last for 2 years before requiring major maintenance, the S9e and S9k are terrible gears and I would guess that a large % of them are now paperweight because it costs a lot to fix them compared to their actual value.

There are many factors involved, but if I have to give you a wild guess, I would say that the mining community loses anywhere between 10-15% of the total hashrate every year (compared to the hashrate of the preceding year), which includes gears dying, warehouses catching fire, miners require special PSU that is not easy to source, overclocking aka overcooking, confiscation, floods, and etc.

Did the whole miner die or just the PSU?


You can blindly shop for any miner on planet earth and rest assured that it will be much more robust than the T17e, my personal experience with all the 17 series is terrible, the only exception was the S17 pros which I won't call a great experience but just not that bad compared to the rest.

M21s has been great for me, MicroBT gears, in general, are better built than Bitmain, Avalon is even more robust according to my knowledge that is based on other miners reviews since I don't own any Avalon gears, Phil's luck with the M21s might be bad and that's about it, he got 12 months on that t17e which in my book is outstanding luck, if you can get M21s for a good price, go for it, keep in mind they are LOUD as hell, they make Antminers sound quiet, and the other downside is there is no custom firmware, so tunning and all that isn't going to be an option.

Unlike MZ4 I have no interest in mining in Kosovo, but I do think it's right on topic, if mining is free there, then there must be a ton of mining gears adding up to total hasharte, which has everything to do with that we are discussing, when the rainy season is over in certain parts of China or when the electricity rate goes up in some places, the difficulty is effected big time, so if the Kosovo region issue is settled and miners can no longer use the electricity for free, they will have to shut down which means a difficulty drop incoming, so I would personally love to keep the Kosovo thing updated in this thread from time to time.


Red adjustments are great when they show up on the difficulty, not so great when they show on the price chart.

Phill, the data LoyceV uses is public, theymos makes it, in reality, even theymos can't alter it, because these records are just images of our inclusions, so if theymos' data mentions that I included member "xyz" last week when I have not done that, I would have complained and Meta would be full of it.

Loyce puts that data into an easy to read/use format, and then it's up to each and everyone to "interpret" that data.

While everyone can include/exclude whoever they want, we as a community must set a bit of standard to it, if not then these numbers that show on our profiles will become meaningless.

Take a look at my feedback




What I can do (assuming I am in DT1) is to include all the members who left me that positive feedback and my score would be close to 40+ instead of 2+, I don't think anyone is saying that Ognasty can't be trusted, but +10 isn't the same as +100, I only have 2 visible feedback despite having traded tens of thousands of dollars in this form but it so happened that the products I trade are not in the interest of DT members which is fine but is it ok to alter my trust list to make my feedback look better just because I think I deserve a better score?

There are many times when you include someone and by coincidence, you increase your overall rating, but that is completely fine, doing this on purpose however isn't.

One thing I didn't like about being in DT1 was this very problem, I even mentioned it to Theymos in the same message which I sent to ask him to blacklist me from DT1, I want to be able to add some people to my trust list without directly making them DT2, but I knew my request was not going to go through and then with all the DT drama which I prefer to stay away from I decided to set-back and relax, being on DT2 only is a (+), you know your feedback on those scammers are going to help a lot of people, and you also know that you won't be accused of self scratching or any other thing similar.

Now back to the accusation, there is a chance that Og added those 8 members for the sole purpose of strengthening the trust system by adding members that have good judgment, there is also a chance that he did so to increase his ratings, it's up to everyone to decide and act accordingly.

On a side note: I only chimed in because my name was mentioned a dozen times in this thread and because I felt like phill could use some explanation.

What you described here is PPS+, FPPS is 100% theoretical and that includes the transaction fees, in other words

PPS+  = Block reward is paid PPS while transaction fees are paid in PPLNS.
FPPS   = Block reward as well as transaction fees are paid in PPS.

When fees are high and a pool fails to find a block for a while then from a miner's standpoint FPPS is better.

It's worth mentioning that pool fee from the transaction fees are lower than the actual fees for PPS+ pools, viabtc takes 4% from the block reward and only 2% from the block fees since it's PPLNS based, FPPS pools that charge 4% will charge you 4% on both the reward AND the fees, so when your pool gets lucky, you would wish it was a PPS+ rather than FPPS and the opposite of that is also true.

OP keep in mind that your profit with PPS+/FPPS pools is CAPPED, so you can't earn more than what you theoretically are supposed to earn when the factor of luck is eliminated (except for the fees on PPS+ but that is too small to be considered), to me, nothing but PPS+/FPPS works, I don't mind handing them a 4% while knowing almost exactly how much BTC I am going to earn and when will I actually have it, but since I like to have fun, I solo mine at Cksolo pool with a bit of my total hashrate.

That is good news, temps look good too, I will try the trick soon, I will need to go the farm to pick up all the dead 17 series, I have a lot of them, since the trick is cheap and easy it's worth the try.


Nop, they are likely scammers, there are a few accusations against them in this thread , also their Trustpilot reviews aren't great, see one thing to notice about Trustpilot is that positive reviews can be faked easily because they require no proof, while negatives require verifications such as emails, screenshots and all that, the seller can dispute against your negative feedback and have it deleted, so negative feedback outweighs a 100 positive once.

Here is one recent feedback:


Nobody knows or trusts John, but the fact that his verified negative feedback is still there simply means that the accused party failed to prove that John is lying, which means they have indeed scammed him.