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3081  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information on: March 20, 2014, 02:44:31 AM
Anon136, your proposal sounds similar to the function of the "pawn ticket" for U.S. pawnshops. I don't know under what auspices they are not classified as securities, but in effect they operate as bearer bonds for the item(s) held by the pawn shops.

another valid example. its the same thing basically. i dont know if this is enough of a legal shield to keep me in business, but IF they decide that what im doing is illegal, its probably enough of a shield to grant me a cease and desist warning rather than a black bag in the middle of the night.

Man I fear the black bag..

But that said, What is the precedent for issuing private label bullion? I know all the other companies that do are in effect private labels, but what happens when someone wants to sell some Anon136 10oz bars to a dealer, or even a pawn shop?

Are they going to look at it as bullion? or bulk silver? There is a price difference right?



they didn't black back mike caldwell. they decided what he was doing was illegal so they send him a cease and desist notice, with which he complied, and that was the end of it. this is the wild west, no one knows yet what is legal and what isn't. you get 1 free pass as long as the precedent has not yet been set.

*edit* atleast that's the hope /gulp. now accepting godfather applications.
3082  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information on: March 20, 2014, 02:41:30 AM
Anon136, your proposal sounds similar to the function of the "pawn ticket" for U.S. pawnshops. I don't know under what auspices they are not classified as securities, but in effect they operate as bearer bonds for the item(s) held by the pawn shops.

another valid example. its the same thing basically. i dont know if this is enough of a legal shield to keep me in business, but IF they decide that what im doing is illegal, its probably enough of a shield to grant me a cease and desist warning rather than a black bag in the middle of the night.

Man I fear the black bag..

But that said, What is the precedent for issuing private label bullion? I know all the other companies that do are in effect private labels, but what happens when someone wants to sell some Anon136 10oz bars to a dealer, or even a pawn shop?

Are they going to look at it as bullion? or bulk silver? There is a price difference right?



If all goes well than they will be a very high quality product. perhaps they may not be accepted as coming from a legit dealer immediately but hopefully it wont take too long before my brand builds up reputation.

really though if you want to turn them into cash than the best way would be to send them to me in exchange for claim checks, sell the claim checks on the asset exchange and then cash the nxt out at a USD gateway.
3083  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information on: March 20, 2014, 02:22:07 AM
Anon136, your proposal sounds similar to the function of the "pawn ticket" for U.S. pawnshops. I don't know under what auspices they are not classified as securities, but in effect they operate as bearer bonds for the item(s) held by the pawn shops.

another valid example. its the same thing basically. i dont know if this is enough of a legal shield to keep me in business, but IF they decide that what im doing is illegal, its probably enough of a shield to grant me a cease and desist warning rather than a black bag in the middle of the night.
3084  Economy / Speculation / Re: my intuition says: we're sitting on a rocket about to be ignited on: March 20, 2014, 02:14:51 AM
My intuition tells me I have missed the rocket ship... FML  Cry

you need an emergency injection of andreas antonopoulos. it may not be bitcoin specifically where all of the big money will be made but you have absolutely not missed the crypto (in general) rocketship. this thing is just getting started. wait until other forms of finance besides only money move onto the block chain. wait until finaincal securities move onto the block chain. wait until people blockchain crowed funding over takes kickstarter. wait until people start bootstrapping corporations. wait until we have self executing 0 counter-party risk derivatives contracts on the blockchain. jesus wait until distributed autonomous corporations.

you havn't seen anything yet.
3085  Other / Off-topic / Re: If mining asteroids becomes commonplace is any element rare enough to be money? on: March 20, 2014, 02:08:19 AM
Just think one Asteroid with the diameter one kilometer. Can provide all the world iron production for a year, all the world production for gold and silver  for 10 years. All platinum production for a thousand years. And this only for a small asteroid and there are more than 750k other asteriods with same size other even called dwarf planet.

Such an asteroid striking the earth would be equivalent to 1000 hydrogen bombs. Good luck mining the debris from the impact.

They will not catch bring the asteriod near to earth. I think they will mine on the location and only bring back the ores.

That would be prohibitively expensive in energy and in money.

what you need to do is attach thrusters to the asteroid on one of its closer passes by earth, then while it is making its journey around the solar system and back again you use the thrusters to gently "nudge" it in such a manner that on its next close pass by you can lasso it in earths gravity. then you fracture it into bits with explosives or something and rain those bits down over your giant desert property to be collected by a sand sifting harvester. would this be prohibitively expensive? maybe but also maybe not, all of the gold on planet earth is pretty damn valuable.


Not gonna work, that is very dangerous. Do you want create a meteor shower? When the big chunks reach the ground those will create big craters. Many civilian would die on the process. The chunks would scatter thousands of miles  on the ground and would be very hard to control.


yea i dont think you understand how meteors work. no offense i mean everyone cant know about everything there are a lot of things i dont know much about so please dont take it personally. only very very large meteors actually survive the atmosphere long enough to actually impact the ground. also we obviously arnt talking about sticking the worlds largest nuke at the center of the asteroid and blasting it into a thousand random uncontrolled pieces. we are talking about fracturing it at key points with controlled explosions and then guiding these pieces to the intended destination with means other than explosions.

please dont tell me that something is totally imposable simply for your own lack of imagination. it may be imposable, im not going to argue that it isnt. but please dont pretend that you know that this is the case. neither of us knows for sure one way or the other.
3086  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: [ANN] Anon136's Silver Bullion NXT Gateway on: March 20, 2014, 02:00:42 AM
so i was thinking. perhaps one way that i could avoid running afoul of the law on my nxt silver bullion gateway is to emulate a dry cleaners. dry cleaners take in cloths, issue a claim check for those cloths, alter the state of the cloths, and then return them in exchange for the claim check. for some reason unknown to me this claim check is not considered a "security" under financial regulations. Technically it should be, you can leave your cloths at the dry cleaner for an extended period of time and then sell the claim check to someone else and then that person can use the claim check to acquire your cloths, the dry cleaner claim check is a security in every sense of the word but legally it just isn't. So what ever the reason for that is, which i dont know, i can use it to my advantage by emulating that business to a t.

so lets imagine that i am a silver dry cleaners and the melting of silver shot into a bar is the analogue of dry cleaning the cloths, the silver shot is the dirty cloths, and the silver bar is the clean cloths. You buy 10 ounces of silver shot from some online retailer and set the address for delivery as a POBox of my specification. You then use your nxt address to sign the tracking number of the order and send me enough nxt to pay for the "cleaning". The "dirty" silver arrives at my shop and I issue you a claim check. After enough time has passed for me to "clean" the silver that claim check will become redeemable for silver that is now in the form of a bar. From that point on if other people want to trade that claim check amongst each other than thats none of my business. If there are legal ramifications than the onus is on them, it has nothing to do with me.

the nice thing is that there will still be a market for my claim checks but i will never under any circumstances be one of the sellers in that market. so if you want to acquire physical silver than the process will be no more complex for you. you will simply buy one of these claim checks on the market from someone other than me and then reimburse it at my nxt address. The people who deal with ordering silver shot and shipping it to my po box will be in a sense speculators trying to take advantage of arbitrage and for that service they will be affording me a level of legal protection.

one would think that since now there is a new middle man between me and the consumer that this would cause the price to be higher but i dont think this is necessarily the case because there is an advantage to be gained from outsourcing the acquisition of silver shot, a large group of people competing with each other to find cheaper supplies than the other will probably be much more effective at acquiring cheap silver shot than i could be on my own.

tell me what you guys think.
3087  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information on: March 20, 2014, 01:57:37 AM
so i was thinking. perhaps one way that i could avoid running afoul of the law on my nxt silver bullion gateway is to emulate a dry cleaners. dry cleaners take in cloths, issue a claim check for those cloths, alter the state of the cloths, and then return them in exchange for the claim check. for some reason unknown to me this claim check is not considered a "security" under financial regulations. Technically it should be, you can leave your cloths at the dry cleaner for an extended period of time and then sell the claim check to someone else and then that person can use the claim check to acquire your cloths, the dry cleaner claim check is a security in every sense of the word but legally it just isn't. So what ever the reason for that is, which i dont know, i can use it to my advantage by emulating that business to a t.

so lets imagine that i am a silver dry cleaners and the melting of silver shot into a bar is the analogue of dry cleaning the cloths, the silver shot is the dirty cloths, and the silver bar is the clean cloths. You buy 10 ounces of silver shot from some online retailer and set the address for delivery as a POBox of my specification. You then use your nxt address to sign the tracking number of the order and send me enough nxt to pay for the "cleaning". The "dirty" silver arrives at my shop and I issue you a claim check. After enough time has passed for me to "clean" the silver that claim check will become redeemable for silver that is now in the form of a bar. From that point on if other people want to trade that claim check amongst each other than thats none of my business. If there are legal ramifications than the onus is on them, it has nothing to do with me.

the nice thing is that there will still be a market for my claim checks but i will never under any circumstances be one of the sellers in that market. so if you want to acquire physical silver than the process will be no more complex for you. you will simply buy one of these claim checks on the market from someone other than me and then reimburse it at my nxt address. The people who deal with ordering silver shot and shipping it to my po box will be in a sense speculators trying to take advantage of arbitrage and for that service they will be affording me a level of legal protection.

one would think that since now there is a new middle man between me and the consumer that this would cause the price to be higher but i dont think this is necessarily the case because there is an advantage to be gained from outsourcing the acquisition of silver shot, a large group of people competing with each other to find cheaper supplies than the other will probably be much more effective at acquiring cheap silver shot than i could be on my own.

tell me what you guys think. ill post this in my silver bullion thread also so if you are seeing this message any later than say a half hour after it was posted than it will probably be better to reply to it there.
3088  Other / Off-topic / Re: If mining asteroids becomes commonplace is any element rare enough to be money? on: March 20, 2014, 12:01:43 AM
Just think one Asteroid with the diameter one kilometer. Can provide all the world iron production for a year, all the world production for gold and silver  for 10 years. All platinum production for a thousand years. And this only for a small asteroid and there are more than 750k other asteriods with same size other even called dwarf planet.

Such an asteroid striking the earth would be equivalent to 1000 hydrogen bombs. Good luck mining the debris from the impact.

They will not catch bring the asteriod near to earth. I think they will mine on the location and only bring back the ores.

That would be prohibitively expensive in energy and in money.

what you need to do is attach thrusters to the asteroid on one of its closer passes by earth, then while it is making its journey around the solar system and back again you use the thrusters to gently "nudge" it in such a manner that on its next close pass by you can lasso it in earths gravity. then you fracture it into bits with explosives or something and rain those bits down over your giant desert property to be collected by a sand sifting harvester. would this be prohibitively expensive? maybe but also maybe not, all of the gold on planet earth is pretty damn valuable.
3089  Other / Off-topic / Re: If mining asteroids becomes commonplace is any element rare enough to be money? on: March 19, 2014, 11:56:02 PM
Just think one Asteroid with the diameter one kilometer. Can provide all the world iron production for a year, all the world production for gold and silver  for 10 years. All platinum production for a thousand years. And this only for a small asteroid and there are more than 750k other asteriods with same size other even called dwarf planet.

Such an asteroid striking the earth would be equivalent to 1000 hydrogen bombs. Good luck mining the debris from the impact.

first you find a novel way to crack it up into bits and then you drop the shards into the atmosphere above your giant desert property. maybe no such novel way of doing this exists, but also perhaps it does.
3090  Other / Politics & Society / Re: If Anarchy can work, how come there are no historical records of it working? on: March 19, 2014, 11:45:46 PM
Why Proof-of-stake is bad:

http://mises.org/daily/1121

Quote
The collapse did not occur until after almost three centuries of relatively peaceful living had gone by. Roderick T. Long states, "We should be cautious in labeling as a failure a political experiment that flourished longer than the United States has even existed."

When one truly looks at Iceland's history objectively, one can see what the real causes of Iceland's collapse was. The lack of competition and the monopolistic qualities that eventually came about when five families cornered the chieftaincy market was one reason. These five families bought the majority of chieftaincies. They controlled the court and legal system to a significant extent. This meant that there were not as many chieftains to choose from. This led to less competition, creating opportunities for increased exploitation over the free farmers, eventually leading to a revolt against the 5 families.

I like that you are looking at this issue.
Most any system is broken in isolation.  Can it be useful anyhow?
Can it be implemented with proper checks and balances?
For example, like separate houses of Parliaments with equal power but different style?
And then coded in, cryptographically secured, with a verifiable and predetermined protocol.
 

if anarchy for some reason couldn't work than a reasonable contingency plan could be panarchy. Basically the radical decentralization of sovereignty if not down to the individual level. the planet could be checkered with tens of thousands of states that would be territorial monopolies over the land they owned but each owned bits of land here and there scattered across the globe, sort of like how governments own embassies and that land is technically considered the sovereign territory of the government they represent and not the country they are located in. this would increase competition between governments which would force them to act much more like free market companies attempting to offer value to their customers.
3091  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][XCP] Counterparty Protocol, Client and Coin (built on Bitcoin) - Official on: March 19, 2014, 06:16:46 AM
is counterparty ready for the issuance of basic assets? something simple like claim checks?
Yes, you can issue assets in counterparty. The functionality has been in place for a month, you are welcome to check it out.
http://www.blockscan.com/asset.aspx


Any considerable risk of the asset getting wiped at some point in the future? can people trade them with each other?
3092  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information on: March 19, 2014, 05:56:55 AM
I mean there wouldn't be anything wrong with having the name editable and that change would be stored on the blockchain. but it would be nice to have a general "notes" field that was stored locally. that would make it a lot more difficult for scammers to trick people with almost no cost.

Got it - although I would think that once you've decided on which AnonSilver you *trust* then you'd just get the client to *hide* any others with the same name (as it would be pretty unlikely that you are going to buy and sell more than one Asset of the same name).


yes that sounds right to me. i doubt we will run into many situations where we have multiple legit assets with the same name. that would probably be a better solution than the ability to store notes for assets locally.
3093  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information on: March 19, 2014, 05:33:30 AM
important point to specify is that that field be stored locally not on the blockchain.

*edit* just to head of that argument before it even begins

Oh - in that case we are just talking about using localStorage or the like (so a client only thing).

Perhaps Wesley might add that in the same sort of way that he has implemented Contacts.


I mean there wouldn't be anything wrong with having the name editable and that change would be stored on the blockchain. but it would be nice to have a general "notes" field that was stored locally. that would make it a lot more difficult for scammers to trick people with almost no cost.
3094  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information on: March 19, 2014, 05:28:00 AM
JL has already made the changes so that Asset name is no longer "unique" and I think we should stick with that.

The idea of perhaps making the Description (or another new field) "editable" seems like a reasonable one for consideration.


important point to specify is that that field be stored locally not on the blockchain.

*edit* just to head of that argument before it even begins
3095  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][XCP] Counterparty Protocol, Client and Coin (built on Bitcoin) - Official on: March 19, 2014, 05:24:07 AM
is counterparty ready for the issuance of basic assets? something simple like claim checks?
3096  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information on: March 19, 2014, 02:51:12 AM

Good news. Only asset ID was needed to be unique anyway. People can put nxt alias in asset description to point to asset owner site or something. That would help differentiate between asset.

Hey by the way, now that non-unique asset names is decided,

Would it be possible to allow to edit asset description if asset owner feel like he needs that?
Let discuss this.

Adjusting the description is adjusting the whole Asset.

Original Asset is what the investors purchase, sell, and value.

IF you can adjust, why not adjust delete the description and make it worthless. If you sold all your shares, now the ASSET owns zero anything.

Who is going to buy that?

OK then, you are right, but would it be possible to add an editable field other than description to an asset. That would be usefull i think.

good point! a novel solution that idk how i overlooked.
3097  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information on: March 19, 2014, 02:50:37 AM

Good news. Only asset ID was needed to be unique anyway. People can put nxt alias in asset description to point to asset owner site or something. That would help differentiate between asset.

Hey by the way,

Would it be possible to allow to edit asset description if asset owner feel like he needs that?
Let discuss this.

its a good solution imo just remember to check the id before you click purchase.

You really better be checking more than just the ID before you invest. Caveat Emptor as they say

why more than the id? id is not the same thing as name.
3098  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information on: March 19, 2014, 02:36:25 AM

Good news. Only asset ID was needed to be unique anyway. People can put nxt alias in asset description to point to asset owner site or something. That would help differentiate between asset.

Hey by the way,

Would it be possible to allow to edit asset description if asset owner feel like he needs that?
Let discuss this.

its a good solution imo just remember to check the id before you click purchase.
3099  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information on: March 19, 2014, 02:12:33 AM
Just saw a really good idea on XCP forum:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=395761.msg5773807#msg5773807

It is about asset naming and it is very simple and I think quite effective.
Basically once you own an Asset Name, then you can create a subasset for a much lower fee. this essentially allows branding of the root name and then people will know that anything that starts with that is from the same issuer

So Anon gets his Anon136 asset name. Now he can issue:

Anon136.silver1oz
Anon136.silvershot
Anon136.silveretc

It still has a squatting issue with it, but now the squatters have to squat on the names of the issuers, not the target asset. This is far riskier as if a specific name is taken, there are always others that can be used. Unlike "BTC", which is unique.

If we are going to change the NXTcore for asset names, this one might be worth doing.


James


it could still collide if someone else registered Anon136.silver10z
3100  Economy / Speculation / Re: my intuition says: we're sitting on a rocket about to be ignited on: March 19, 2014, 12:48:20 AM
Well, crap. if everybody is in agreement the price is going to go up: that probably means I missed another buying opportunity.

if everyone thinks the price is going to go up its probably going to fall as everyone is fully invested and there is no one to buy the coins the bears are selling.  A market always follows the path of maximum possible pain.


+1

was gonna say this. an efficient market moves to minimize profits. always.

for producers maybe. not consumers.
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