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30941  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Up Like Trump on: April 26, 2016, 03:16:11 PM
The only reason Americans like Trump is, he has confirmed their suspicions about all the bad things people in government are doing. Before Trump, the people knew. Now they know that they know.

If Trump becomes President, he will never be able to do the things that he talks about doing. If he does any of them, it will be because the people will willingly follow what he says.

Odds are that Trump will destroy America (if he ever does the things that he says) because the people are not looking for good business operations. They are looking for a leader, and Trump isn't enough of a politician to lead any sheeple, except into ruin.

Cool
30942  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Is it possible for a country to adopt Bitcoin as its official currency? on: April 26, 2016, 03:10:16 PM
The nation that adopts Bitcoin formally will be very close to a free market with its people, and complete freedom in the nation.

Two nations that could easily do this if they wanted to really free their people are, America and Switzerland.

As it is, if the people of America understood about jury nullification, they could force the American government to free them without adopting Bitcoin officially.

Cool
30943  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Why am I an atheist on: April 26, 2016, 03:06:26 PM
Here are the main claims for me:
My assertion that simple mechanism cannot yield the brain, that the brain is actually a computing machine connected to a spirit.
My assertions regarding anomalous perception that was documented in a medical setting (perception/awareness during a period when the brain is known to be non-functional).
These points demolish OP's assertion that the brain came from "eternal nothing". In fact, these points of mine are part of a scientific consensus:
https://sites.google.com/site/chs4o8pt/eminent_researchers

Louis Pasteur agreed:
Quote
(Quoted text from Wikiquote)

Louis Pasteur (27 December 1822 - 28 September 1895) French microbiologist, chemist, pioneer of the "Germ theory of disease", discoverer of molecular asymmetry and stereo-chemistry, and inventor of the process of Pasteurization.
Louis Pasteur believed as did many other scientists on this page that science led to the belief in God. He also did not believe that life arose naturally from matter. He thought it more likely that life existed first and matter arose from life. Pasteur said:
Posterity will one day laugh at the foolishness of modern materialistic philosophers. The more I study nature, the more I stand amazed at the work of the Creator. I pray while I am engaged at my work in the laboratory.

...

Science brings men nearer to God.

...

I have been looking for spontaneous generation for twenty years without discovering it. No, I do not judge it impossible. But what allows you to make it the origin of life? You place matter before life and you decide that matter has existed for all eternity. How do you know that the incessant progress of science will not compel scientists to consider that life has existed during eternity, and not matter? You pass from matter to life because your intelligence of today cannot conceive things otherwise. How do you know that in ten thousand years, one will not consider it more likely that matter has emerged from life?


Again, changing the subject. I'm not the OP, and I was having a different discussion with you.




Here you are, changing the subject from whatever qwik2learn was talking about, to the subject of changing the subject.

Cool
30944  Other / Off-topic / Re: Is science a religion? on: April 26, 2016, 03:04:00 PM

Do you see how blessed you are? Neither God, nor even I, am forcing you to see the evidence and proof so that you just have to believe.

The thing that we are doing is giving and showing you all kinds of places you can go to, and all kinds of topics that you can search on, so that you can see the evidence and proof for your self.

The choice is yours for now. However, at the judgment you will no longer have a choice regarding realizing that God exists. You will be forced to understand that God exists. You will be forced by the strength of Spirit that God is, to face Him Spirit to spirit. At that time there will be no doubt on your part. As you do not believe in Him now, so you will not believe in Him then. You will know.

Words are reasonably easy for both of us in this life. So, they don't mean much. At the time of the resurrection and the final judgment, you will remember how I warned you.


You have just been arguing that there there is no such thing as free will/choice Huh

Did you notice who I was replying to? He barely understands when I speak his language.

Wait a sec -- a few posts ago you claim I speak english as a second language.

Here you claim that I barely understand when you speak my language, and yet you only ever post in English.

English can not be my second language and my first language at the same time.

This is a clearly self contradictory statement. It's the sort of error in logic that I'm often pointing out to you. If you want to be taken seriously, you should be more careful when posting.


See? This helps to prove that English is your second language. If you had understood English better, you would have understood the context in which I was using the words "understands" and "his language," and not even said what you said in your post.

Cool
30945  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Why do Atheists hate Religion ? on: April 26, 2016, 02:58:54 PM

The person who says God does not exists, is claiming to have greater knowledge than God. The only way to be greater than God is to be a greater god.


This is a sin.

"Thou shalt have no other gods before me"
- Ex 20:3, Dt 5:7

There are no other gods than the almighty one: who is the greater god you are referring to?


Best regards.

From the Old Testament, Psalm 82:1 and 6,7:
Quote
1 God presides in the great assembly; he gives judgment among the “gods”:

...

6 “I said, ‘You are “gods”; you are all sons of the Most High.’
7 But you will die like mere men; you will fall like every other ruler.”

From the New Testament, John 10:34-38:
Quote
Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are gods?’ If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and the Scripture cannot be broken—what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’? Do not believe me unless I do what my Father does. But if I do it, even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.”

Cool
30946  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Saudia Arabia helped 9/11 hijackers on: April 26, 2016, 02:46:33 PM
What is a State? What is a foreign State, like Saudi Arabia?

States are simply states of mind. Sometimes they are written down, like the U.S. Constitution, and the various Constitutions of the various American States. Why are they written down? So that the people can maintain a "correct" State attitude.

States, themselves do nothing. It is always people who do something.

Saudi Arabia did nothing regarding 9/11. It was some people who did it. Some of the people may have held in their minds the writings of the State of Saudi Arabia. It was still people that did it.

The thing that we do not know about Obama is, is the State of America or the State of Saudi Arabia strongest in his heart? Same said about Bush or anyone else.

Cool
30947  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Why do Atheists hate Religion ? on: April 26, 2016, 02:38:37 PM
only a few people and not all of them have such thoughts. basically every human being was created to be good and basically also everybody liked peace. if people do not have that then it was created to destroy part of the contents of this world. humans were created for each other keep the peace !!!

Ever heard of boxing and wrestling? People all over the world watch boxing and wrestling on TV. Or they take part in it by doing it.

Many people join the military for the purpose of "legally killing" other people.

You are mistaken.

Cool
30948  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Why do Atheists hate Religion ? on: April 26, 2016, 02:36:17 PM
Atheists do not believe god and religion believe god So they  hate religion.

I also do not believe in the tooth fairy, santa claus, unicorns, and pokemon... does that mean I hate all those too?

How do you hate something you do not believe exists?

Atheists know God/god exists. They know it because they set themselves up as gods by simply suggesting that God doesn't exists when they know that they don't know for sure that He doesn't.

Cool

Why the fact that you suggest God might not exist makes yourself a god?

Does God exist? Science and nature have proven, or show, that God exists. God knows that He exists. The person who says God does not exists, is claiming to have greater knowledge than God. The only way to be greater than God is to be a greater god. The person is setting himself up as god by claiming to know more than God.

This means that atheists are destroying their whole atheism religion by claiming it to be true.

Cool
30949  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Putin for President of the United States? on: April 26, 2016, 02:31:14 PM
<>
And Putin is so poor... he posted his annal revenue... he has nothing, just a little house, you know live in USA is not so cheap as in Russia...

And you believed it.    Grin
30950  Other / Politics & Society / Re: To anyone believing the solution is a free economy without regulation on: April 26, 2016, 02:26:01 PM
1. There always is regulation of sorts, even in a free economy.

2. All governments are companies. One person is not capable of ruling many without help. Thus, a company.

3. The United States government company was set up in ways to keep the government, itself, from becoming an overbearing company. It has worked to a great extent, because of the wisdom of the founding fathers. But it has, also, not worked in many ways because of their foolishness.

4. At the time of the founding of the U.S. gov., everyone understood the 12-person, common law jury. The thing that can keep the U.S. gov. company from becoming more overbearing than it is, is an informed people (the Internet is helping with this) and knowledge of jury nullification.

5. What is jury nullification? It is the ability of the common law jury to determine the outcome and the law of every case brought before it. For example, if the IRS brings a case against me for not filing or paying, and I require the common law jury, they have the right to:
A. Find me guilt on any or all counts;
B. Make me pay any amount;
C. Find the IRS guilty on all counts;
D. Make the IRS pay me any amount;
E. Completely nullify the IRS regarding me in the particular case.
The IRS could appeal, and the trial might have to be done over, but the new jury could do the same as the old.

6. Most people in prison are people who have done no crime, or have done such a petty crime that it was insignificant. Many are there through plea deal, when they could have been set free if:
A. There had been a jury trial...
B. With an informed jury that knew about jury nullification...
C. But rather than an informed-jury trial, they were talked into making a plea deal by their attorney...
D. Who is an officer of the court with first allegiance to the court rather than to his client.


If you really want regulation without overbearing regulation, there are two major things for you to do:
1. Learn about and inform everyone about jury nullification;
2. Support your friends and relatives who are informed jury people, because if they bring a verdict of freedom that is against a big company or the government, these entities will harm the families of the jury that goes against them.

So you see? Grapes of Wrath is still going on today. It simply has a different form.

A good start to understanding what this is all about is to fully learn the stuff at http://voidjudgments.com/.

Cool

EDIT: Btw, from http://voidjudgments.com/detailsvoid.htm, "IF EVERY VOID JUDGMENT WAS VACATED WITH DAMAGES, IT WOULD REPRESENT THE GREATEST SHIFT IN MATERIAL WEALTH IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD!"
30951  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Legal Migration Overrunning US on: April 26, 2016, 05:41:44 AM
Gotta have the legals. More and more Americans are legally avoiding taxation.

Income tax return amounts are the determining factor for how much Uncle Sam gets to borrow from the Federal Reserve Bank.

Need the legals so that we have more people who are convinced that they have to file returns and maybe even pay taxes... just so government can keep on borrowing from the Fed. It's the way things are set up.

Cool
30952  Other / Politics & Society / Footage released of police shooting marijuana suspects from a helicopter on: April 26, 2016, 05:36:21 AM
Footage released of police shooting marijuana suspects from a helicopter





She said it was reminiscent of the ongoing national discussion about domestic police using military tactics.

The incident involved a pickup truck loaded with undocumented immigrants hidden beneath a dark blanket.

The DPS crew can be heard saying, "Got a black tarp with bundles," believing the truck was smuggling bales of marijuana.

Eventually, one of the troopers opened fire disabling the tires, learning three men had been hit. Only one survived.

Up until that day, del Bosque said she was unaware the Texas Department of Public Safety helicopters were firing at vehicles during pursuits.

"I don't know why they would do that in Houston, San Antonio or Austin, but they think it's OK to do on the border region," del Bosque said.

She said following the outcry over the shooting, DPS discontinued the practice.

News organizations, including KSAT 12, have tried in vain to get copies of the video.

Tom Vinger, DPS spokesman, said in a statement, "DPS was prohibited from releasing the video because the driver of the vehicle was a juvenile. The Attorney General affirmed the confidentiality of the video in its open records ruling."

...

She said, “They couldn’t understand why a helicopter would be shooting at them for coming to look for work.”





Read more at http://wearechange.org/footage-released-police-shooting-marijuana-suspects-helicopter/.


Cool
30953  Other / Politics & Society / Doug Casey Warns: on: April 26, 2016, 05:25:03 AM
Doug Casey Warns:





While President Obama took credit this weekend for saving the world economy from a global depression and stock markets are hovering around all-time highs, not everyone is convinced that central bank policy and government involvement in financial markets has stabilized the system.

...

You’ve got to remember that all of these governments and central banks all around the world have driven interest rates not just to zero, but to negative levels in some cases… and they are simultaneously printing up trillions of currency units. And even while they are desperately doing that the economy is falling apart in lots of different ways.

…They’ve created a super-bubble in bonds, a bubble in stocks, and meanwhile commodities have collapsed and are below production costs in many cases.

…The economy is going to be very, very bad… It’s the next stage of what I call the Greater Depression.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=da7fBFneMH0



Read more at http://www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/doug-casey-warns-its-the-next-stage-of-the-greater-depression-the-economy-is-going-to-be-very-very-bad_04252016.


Cool
30954  Other / Off-topic / Re: Is science a religion? on: April 26, 2016, 04:52:53 AM

Do you see how blessed you are? Neither God, nor even I, am forcing you to see the evidence and proof so that you just have to believe.

The thing that we are doing is giving and showing you all kinds of places you can go to, and all kinds of topics that you can search on, so that you can see the evidence and proof for your self.

The choice is yours for now. However, at the judgment you will no longer have a choice regarding realizing that God exists. You will be forced to understand that God exists. You will be forced by the strength of Spirit that God is, to face Him Spirit to spirit. At that time there will be no doubt on your part. As you do not believe in Him now, so you will not believe in Him then. You will know.

Words are reasonably easy for both of us in this life. So, they don't mean much. At the time of the resurrection and the final judgment, you will remember how I warned you.


You have just been arguing that there there is no such thing as free will/choice Huh

Did you notice who I was replying to? He barely understands when I speak his language. Let's take this a step at a time, so that he (and you, too?) can understand.

You feel that you can make choices. Sometimes you do make choices. The fact that those choices are programmed into the universe for you, doesn't detract from the fact that you feel that you make choices. Choose God, and the choice will have been programmed into the universe for you.

Cool
30955  Other / Off-topic / Re: Is science a religion? on: April 26, 2016, 02:55:44 AM
That still does not explain how something can make itself, inserting a "god" is even more ludicrous because there is no evidence for a god. It is more logical to conclude the universe has made itself and like us is alive, we and everything in it are expressions of the living whole. Like it we make ourselves (we evolve both physically and consciously) through our conscious choices that are influenced by our environment and those choices in turn influence our future.

This is why IMHO The most succinct definition is :-
Quote
Universe is the aggregate of all humanity's consciously apprehended and communicated non simultaneous and only partially overlapping experiences. - Buckminster Fuller

  

To say it simply, we don't really have a concept for how something can make itself if it can. Such a concept is not part of our universe. This doesn't mean that there is not something outside of the universe. All it means is that it would be so different that even the word "different" wouldn't apply.



Proof for God

Everything operates by the fundamental law of cause and effect, which is upheld by Newton's 3rd Law. This means that even your synapses in your brain fire because of things that made them fire. We don't have free will scientifically speaking. The thing that looks like free will is programming through cause and effect. This is scientific law.

Complexity is worldwide. All the scientists, and almost everyone else, know it. The things that we see about the rest of the universe show complexity as well. So far, the complexity is beyond our understanding. Whatever caused this complexity must have been more complex.

Entropy is universal. Entropy is scientific. This means that there must have been a beginning of everything. If there was no beginning, that is, if everything had always been, entropy suggests that everything would have dispersed and diffused long ago, so that there would be no complexity whatever.

In other words, Something caused a beginning time. That something caused all the complexity. That Something was far more complex than anything that we understand - consider how deeply complex cause and effect is and how it is withstanding entropy's dissolution. That Something fits our definition of "God."



We see no evidence in the universe of anything making itself without something else causing it.



There is no scientific evidence that we grow in any way without cause and effect making us grow the way we do. In other words, everything, even our maturing, and our intelligence, and our thinking, are all pre-programmed.



Cool


That's not a proof with any scientific evidence. That means it's not a scientific proof. In fact, in absence of any experimental evidence, it's just illogical armchair philosophy consisting of self contradictory statements and  which redefines common terms while inventing others (eg your previously posted "Complex universe law").



Do you see how blessed you are? Neither God, nor even I, am forcing you to see the evidence and proof so that you just have to believe.

The thing that we are doing is giving and showing you all kinds of places you can go to, and all kinds of topics that you can search on, so that you can see the evidence and proof for your self.

The choice is yours for now. However, at the judgment you will no longer have a choice regarding realizing that God exists. You will be forced to understand that God exists. You will be forced by the strength of Spirit that God is, to face Him Spirit to spirit. At that time there will be no doubt on your part. As you do not believe in Him now, so you will not believe in Him then. You will know.

Words are reasonably easy for both of us in this life. So, they don't mean much. At the time of the resurrection and the final judgment, you will remember how I warned you.

Cool
30956  Other / Off-topic / Re: Is science a religion? on: April 25, 2016, 09:28:00 PM
If the universe is infinite, is cause and effect not random?
Why wouldn't there be an infinity of cause and effect? After all, that is the only thing that we have found so far. Cause and effect seems to be penetrating throughout the whole earth and the few things that we can view in the cosmos. We have not found any pure random for a fact.


Single sex species are an evolutionary expression.
Is there such a thing as a single sex species outside of a few microbes? You don't see any single-sex jiggle hogs in the grasslands, or bangle bears in the woods, or bimble birds flying around in the skies. They are all male and female. If evolution existed, there would be some of these single sex "things" right in the back yard.

Why would nature stick to double sex? It is inefficient and illogical.


Why should god be separate from the universe?

We have found nothing that makes itself. Entropy shows us that the universe had a beginning. Before there was the universe, there was the Thing that made (created) it. God had to be outside of the universe to have made it... to have given it a beginning.

Let's say you build a garage. Before you build it, there is no garage, right? Then you build the garage. While you are building it, you are inside of it part of the time to build it. You are outside of it part of the time to build it. Once it is finished, you can walk inside or outside of it... provided you left a door for yourself, that is.

Same said for God in the universe. We don't have evidence of it being any other way.

Cool
30957  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Anti-Atheist Bigotry: Atheists Are As Distrusted As Rapists on: April 25, 2016, 05:11:35 PM
Funny.
Badecker is still there with his "proofs"?

Why are you still replying? ^^
If badecker even cared for logic or real argument he would agree to list his arguments in an ordered and precise way so we can refute them one by one.
As he prefers to just give vague un unreliable explanations without ever defining his terms or context, he's probably even aware that it's nothing but wind.

SO you can't convince him, cause convincing need the other one to think in a , if not perfectly logical, at least reasonnable reliable way.

It's good practice. Of course I won't convince BADecker but it's an interesting task to unravel the tangled logic that he/she produces, and it's a difficult process to argue against since BADecker is usually not starting from a foundation of logic or knowledge.




It doesn't matter how I explain the proof that science gives for the existence of God. You simply aren't interested in hearing it, or in thinking it through. You both are stuck in your atheism religion, and you like it that way. If you weren't stuck, or didn't like it, you would go out and examine science and nature to see that God really does exist.

The other idea is that you know that God exists, and are simply fighting Him.

Cool
30958  Other / Off-topic / Re: Is science a religion? on: April 25, 2016, 05:06:32 PM

Everything operates by the fundamental law of cause and effect, which is upheld by Newton's 3rd Law. This means that even your synapses in your brain fire because of things that made them fire. We don't have free will scientifically speaking. The thing that looks like free will is programming through cause and effect. This is scientific law.

You making an assumption that consciousness is a product of brain function, that has not been proved. This is why there is no unit of measure for consciousness. Some argue that our brains are merely receivers of consciousness like a biological TV set. Hence free will is not necessarily a product of cause and effect. Your free will could very well be influencing/driving the synapses in your brain that fire.
I agree that there is more to it than what standard science says. We could get into all kinds of pseudo science about this. But, standard science still says that there isn't really any soul or even spirit. Science could be wrong. It has been many times in the past. So, in the "spirit" of science, cause and effect rule in everything. There is no pure random.


Assuming you support the idea of religion, arguing that your consciousness is merely a product of the brain due to cause and effect, implies we are biological robots. Then what purpose would religion even have.   

Now you are suggesting we should talk about some aspects of religion. The question is "Is science a religion?"

Consider. If evolution is real, why did it go to all the trouble of making two sexes? Why not have just one "sex" propagate itself? We might be able to list all kinds of reasons either way. But we should be able to at least find a multitude of single sex and tri-sex families that are as large as the two-sex family. Is evolution wrong? Did nature goof?

We don't feel like biological robots. Does this make it so that we aren't? My point has always been that there is a God, that there is purpose, that science is moving into the realm of religion among people.

Cool
30959  Other / Off-topic / Re: Is science a religion? on: April 25, 2016, 01:15:24 PM
That still does not explain how something can make itself, inserting a "god" is even more ludicrous because there is no evidence for a god. It is more logical to conclude the universe has made itself and like us is alive, we and everything in it are expressions of the living whole. Like it we make ourselves (we evolve both physically and consciously) through our conscious choices that are influenced by our environment and those choices in turn influence our future.

This is why IMHO The most succinct definition is :-
Quote
Universe is the aggregate of all humanity's consciously apprehended and communicated non simultaneous and only partially overlapping experiences. - Buckminster Fuller

  

To say it simply, we don't really have a concept for how something can make itself if it can. Such a concept is not part of our universe. This doesn't mean that there is not something outside of the universe. All it means is that it would be so different that even the word "different" wouldn't apply.



Proof for God

Everything operates by the fundamental law of cause and effect, which is upheld by Newton's 3rd Law. This means that even your synapses in your brain fire because of things that made them fire. We don't have free will scientifically speaking. The thing that looks like free will is programming through cause and effect. This is scientific law.

Complexity is worldwide. All the scientists, and almost everyone else, know it. The things that we see about the rest of the universe show complexity as well. So far, the complexity is beyond our understanding. Whatever caused this complexity must have been more complex.

Entropy is universal. Entropy is scientific. This means that there must have been a beginning of everything. If there was no beginning, that is, if everything had always been, entropy suggests that everything would have dispersed and diffused long ago, so that there would be no complexity whatever.

In other words, Something caused a beginning time. That something caused all the complexity. That Something was far more complex than anything that we understand - consider how deeply complex cause and effect is and how it is withstanding entropy's dissolution. That Something fits our definition of "God."



We see no evidence in the universe of anything making itself without something else causing it.



There is no scientific evidence that we grow in any way without cause and effect making us grow the way we do. In other words, everything, even our maturing, and our intelligence, and our thinking, are all pre-programmed.



Cool
30960  Other / Off-topic / Re: Is science a religion? on: April 25, 2016, 05:22:26 AM
Ultimately we are all faced with the paradox of how noting makes itself both science and religion cant answer this fundamental question. While most can agree that intelligent design exists in the universe some think that a "god" is responsible, but what then made the "god"? Nobody can explain this fundamental question.

The universe contains the idea of "making." "Making" is or has to do with the cause and effect idea. It is in everything. That is the reason why we consider it so deeply. We and our universe are filled with the idea of making. The question is, does this have to necessarily do with God?

God might have used the idea of "making" in part of the universe making. And we might see some of the aspects of God, Himself, within the universe. But since God is outside of the universe and before it, He is almost necessarily going to have attributes that are not of this universe, and might not be understandable.

For example, consider the idea of reverse entropy... where things do not wear out or coalesce or disperse. Consider the idea of bubbling energy that is naturally constantly growing in ways that we can't understand, because that is its nature. Our universe isn't like this. But we can almost imagine what it might be like a little.

Also, consider real random. From a basic scientific standpoint, everything that exists, does so by something - or many things - causing it to exist the way it does. For example, why does an electron move in a copper wire? Because it was bumped by another electron. Or because a magnetic field pressed against its magnetic field. Something caused it to move.

Yet, we have the idea of random in our lives. We use it to "guess at" stuff that is outside of our realm of observation. For example, when we flip a coin, we don't know/can't measure the forces that act on it to make it land heads or tails. So, we do a bunch of flips in approximately the same way, and measure the average.

Pure random is something that we can envision slightly, but really can't understand. Why not God? After all, we aren't even close to understanding all about the universe that He created. Why would we think that we might be able to understand much of anything about Him?

Cool
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