Is there a law that says everything has to come from somewhere? What do you think? It is indisputably the conclusion of the philosophical materialism (physicalism) that is so popular with atheists. After all, if matter is not the cause, then what ELSE could be the cause?In ANY experiment, you are trying to determine the true source (cause) of the observed results; that is certainly a law of science! So what about the act of observation itself? That also has a source! Therefore it pays to "know thyself", just as is taught by various ones (e.g. Socrates). I'm not sure what to think -- I was asking you. Do you think that everything has to come from somewhere -- yes or no? Why are you unsure? I already gave you multiple proofs that causality is a scientific law (bolded). Now what do you think about these proofs? You don't realize that these questions were already answered by Herbert Spencer. All of science rests upon the principle that everything has a cause, and all experiments are conducted in an effort to learn more about the true cause (source). I strongly encourage you to read Spencer's First Principles. By Spencer's own logic, it is impossible that everything has a cause since then there could be no first cause. The fact of wide-spread to universal entropy says that there had to be a beginning. If there weren't any beginning, entropy would have caused a space/time equilibrium long ago, and no complexity would exist at all. Since there was a beginning, there was a beginning of cause and effect. The beginning of cause and effect was the Great First Cause. It Itself may or may not have had a cause of its own. But if it did, that kind of a cause would have been so far beyond the area where mankind can think that we wouldn't understand it at all. Why not? Consider a First Cause that is so great that It could move countless subatomic particles and waves to produce the universe of today through thousands of years of cause and effect activity. Such a thing is simply mind boggling, way beyond the mind of man.  |
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BADECKER:For some strange reason, many people keep getting the idea that atheism is itself some sort of religion. Maybe it is because these people are so caught up in their own religious beliefs that they cannot imagine any person living without religion of some sort. Maybe it is due to some persistent misunderstanding of what atheism is. And maybe they just don't care that what they are saying really doesn't make any sense. Atheism is a disbelief, not a philosophy. My disbelief in the Tooth Fairy is not a philosophy of life - is it for anyone else? Furthermore, a philosophy of life is not necessarily a religion and it doesn't necessitate that a religious belief exists in the person with the philosophy. There are, after all, all sorts of secular philosophies of life, none of which are religions. Source: http://atheism.about.com/od/atheismmyths/fl/Atheism-Myths-Is-Atheism-a-Religion.htm Caught up in religion? That's exactly what the adamant atheist is. If a person never thought about it, he might be an atheist without having a religion of atheism. When there is science that proves God - or even if it doesn't, it comes very close - atheistic believers in science can't be atheists and not have a religion. Perhaps if there wasn't any evidence whatsoever for God, or if there happened to be only evidence that suggested God didn't exist, then atheism might not be a religion. Just because someone says, "I don't have a religion, I don't have a religion, I don't have a religion, I don't have a religion, I don't have a religion... ," doesn't mean he knows what he is talking about, or that he isn't a liar. Check the dictionary definition of "religion" at http://www.dictionary.com/browse/religion?s=t. All atheism is, is a bunch of dreamers who want something so badly that they are unwilling to even recognize that it might be some other way. That in itself is part of what a religion can be and very often is. By the evidence, atheism is a religion. |
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What exactly did you post this in relation to? Without context it could mean anything. My posts are the context; I am leading this discussion to more fruitful ground, but first I need to clear up some things: Back it up just a second, let me make sure I understand what you're saying -- you just post stuff apropos of nothing in particular, just stuff you find interesting? Yes, it's true. I post interesting things. The subject is life, GOD, rebirth. I am discussing with OP and others. My posts in this thread are the context. You have to read my posts to see the context. If you don't read my posts, you will think there is no context. All of my posts are relevant, this quote by Eliot happens to be broad and ambiguous. If you fail to think about what I post then you will find it challenging to ask any fruitful questions. I refuse to accept OP's authority that awareness ends at death; he could just as easily say that it ends when you fall asleep! I find it puzzling that atheists like OP are stating that we did not exist; why can't they just ask the question "where did we come from?" like the rest of us?  Is there a law that says everything has to come from somewhere? It is called cause and effect, and it is exemplified in Newton's 3rd Law. |
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9/11 was the game plan made by former president George Bush in his hate towards Muslim community and Muslim countries all over the world.on the basis of that 9/11 event America attacked many Muslim countries,about 2.5 million people died from that day and they all were innocent,which were pushed to that war according to the game plan.
Bush was a damn puppet and he just played written scenary We are all puppets in life. We are controlled by who knows what. And it is our need for security that causes us to be the way we are. If we weren't stuck in our comfort zone, we wouldn't need a president or a government. We would go out and do whatever we wanted. Presidents and actors are the same. The only slight differences is that they have stretched their comfort zone into areas that most of us haven't. Be wise about the way you stretch you comfort zone out. |
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What exactly did you post this in relation to? Without context it could mean anything. My posts are the context; I am leading this discussion to more fruitful ground, but first I need to clear up some things: Back it up just a second, let me make sure I understand what you're saying -- you just post stuff apropos of nothing in particular, just stuff you find interesting? Yes, it's true. I post interesting things. The subject is life, GOD, rebirth. I am discussing with OP and others. My posts in this thread are the context. You have to read my posts to see the context. If you don't read my posts, you will think there is no context. All of my posts are relevant, this quote by Eliot happens to be broad and ambiguous. If you fail to think about what I post then you will find it challenging to ask any fruitful questions. I refuse to accept OP's authority that awareness ends at death; he could just as easily say that it ends when you fall asleep! I find it puzzling that atheists like OP are stating that we did not exist; why can't they just ask the question "where did we come from?" like the rest of us? Actually, it is quite easy to understand. We all seem to have a handle on the life we live. Our experience keeps us thinking that things will go on into the future as they have in the past. Few of us realize that we don't know anything at all about our future. A sudden car accident proves this out. This is why we have religion. Religion allows us a way to combine the fact that we know so extremely little, with the security we need to operate effectively in life. Atheism is simply another form of religion, one which allows a person with the mind-set of an atheist to live life with a semblance of security. The fact that the atheist says or thinks that atheism isn't a religion, shows a blind spot in his mind, the likes of which all people of all religions have. We can all find religions that seem stupid to us. We might respect the people of those other religions. But we see aspects of stupidity in them that the believers of those religions don't see. It's the same with the atheist. He sees aspects of other religions that he believes are stupid. And he doesn't see that he is doing this in religion-like fashion. The atheist wants to be strong. He wants to be secure in life without religion. So, he has set himself to believe that his atheism is not a religion. But, because he is human, he must have religion just like all the other people. He has only created for himself a religion of non-religion in atheism. |
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Science can't be a religion
Almost every scientist belongs to a religion if we don't count atheists. Anyway atheism is also a religion that against to religions
No, it's not. Science is not meant to be a religion. Yet the fact that scientists would accept as fact, much of science theory which has not been proven to be fact, starts to bring science into the realm of religion. Scientists have built up all kinds of expressed structure about how things work, structure that is not known to be factual. They believe much of it. They attach it to the factual science. They have turned science into a religion, and made themselves the high priests of that religion. The theoretical things are written up right along side of the factual things in books. They are taught in classrooms around the world as truth when they are not necessarily known to be truth. For example. Two theories that are not known to be fact are Big Bang Theory and Black Hole Theory. Nobody knows that the Big Bang happened. Nobody knows what Black Holes really are. Basically, there are three Big Bang theories. Basically there are 4 kinds of Black Holes expressed by the various Black Hole Theories. The amazing thing is that none of the Black Holes expressed by Black Hole Theory could fit withing any of the universes expressed by any of the Big Bang Theory. The theories are not compatible. Yet, scientists just know in their hearts that the Big Bang really happened, and that Black Holes are what they say they are. And they believe it strongly, even though it all contradicts. Stand this up against the definition of "religion" to see that they have a religion going for themselves in their science. |
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A big point of all this is that people are free. You have people in governments using their freedom by attempting to make money off people not in government. You have people not in government using their freedom by attempting to make money off anybody. Anyone can do the Panama Papers thing. He can do it personally by studying and joining together with one or more knowledgeable like minded people. Or he can use funds he already has to buy a setup for himself from companies like Mossack Fonseca. One of the best setups around is NOT offshore. It is right in the United States. It is based on a couple of basic tenets of freedom found in the 1st Amendment to the Constitution... freedom of speech, and freedom of religion. Any two people can get together and form a church. Because of the 1st Amendment (which is backed by basic English and American common law), a church has a wide range of freedoms that the government can't attack successfully... if the people know what they are doing. One of the biggest church freedoms is freedom from income taxes. If the church is run properly, it is excluded from the IRS altogether. If the people running the church know a little about common law, they can repel even the strongest IRS attacks against their church with ease. See http://www.theultimateinassetprotection.com/?ref=SWC for some basics about a sure way to do this. The amazing thing is that people have been trained into thinking that starting a church for protecting one's self or family from government operated racketeering is wrong. Government continually dumbs-down people in their training in school so that they are ripe for the picking. The various religions help to keep people ignorant of the financial protection available to them through a church. The simple, everyday religious leaders are honest enough in what they are doing. Yet, all but a few of them realize how powerful freedom of religion is in the States. So, they make the setting up of one's affairs as a church to look like it is a bad thing. From http://www.theultimateinassetprotection.com/taxlaw/: ... instead of asking the IRS’ permission to be a church (as you would with a 1023 application to obtain 501(c)(3) status), you declare the existence of your church under IRC 508(a). In other words, if your church becomes a 501(c)(3) tax exempt organization, it isn't a church. It is a corporation or other entity. If it is a 508(c)(1)(A) organization, it can be a church, and is an "excepted" organization outside of IRS control. Someone has twisted the minds of the people in the local churches to make their church an exempt corporation under IRS scrutiny rather than an excepted organization completely outside of IRS control. Time for people to take up their freedom and form their own church so that they don't have to go offshore to protect their assets. |
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Then ask those same atheists if they are telling the truth or only dreaming. Why? How does dreaming come in to the question of what someone thinks? I know religious prophets have dreams of gods, do you mean the same thing happens here? The idea isn't literal dreaming. The idea is a forced day dreaming, to make it seem reality. Science talks about cause and effect as though it is the basis for everything. A scientist is great only after he has mastered seeking the causes for any effects. Entropy suggests that complexity is waning. And, entropy seems to be universal as far as we can tell, even though there are flares of complexity now and again... flares which are culminations of combining of that which is even more complex. If God happens to NOT be proven by this, God is highly suggested. So, what kind of day dreaming is it that atheists use to get them selves to so adamantly resist any idea that God exists, while at the same time so emphatically accept the sciences of cause and effect, complex universe, and universal complexity. Everyone lies to himself one way or another. What strength of mind these atheists must have to lie to themselves in such a great way as to accept science, but resist the greatest thing science is showing them! Ah. Concealed abuse, again. I'd thought you'd changed but it seems not. No concealed abuse whatsoever. Atheists constantly abuse themselves by stupidly proclaiming their atheism, completely unconcealed, especially when they do it as adamantly as they do. They should be thanking me that I am showing them how stupid they are acting and look, so that they can either be quiet about it, or change to look at and accept the truth. But no. All they can do is claim that they are being abused. And then they go further to abuse themselves and cry about it some more. If you atheists can't seem to get out of your stupid cycle, why don't you seek help? Are you that far gone that you can't even do that? |
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Religion is meant for the 'weak', and yet, atheist are equally as close-minded as religious people. Saying something unknown doesn't exist for sure is just as dumb as saying it does without any foundation. People who denied the existence of an american continent were equally as close-minded as those who believed the other extreme. Agnosticism allows to say 'I don't know' in order to build a bi-optional foundation. Let's find out without any bias, and let faith help those who need it. Reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mAtjs-JAtEAtheism does not mean a person knows for certain there is no God Atheism is simply a rejection of any (or all) specific Gods... Christians say their God exists... I don't believe them... I'm an Atheist... same goes for Hindu, Muslim, etc... I don't believe any of them To compare it to a courtroom... Atheism would be finding the defense, "not guilty beyond a reasonable doubt" (you have not proven God exists)... which is different from "innocent" (God does not exist) Atheism is a statement about belief, and Agnostic is a statement about knowledge... the two are not mutually exclusive... (you can be an Agnostic Atheist, or a Gnostic Atheist... just like you can be a Gnostic or Agnostic Christian) Also, nobody knows for certain (everyone is an agnostic)... anyone who claims to know for certain is a liar or a fool "Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities.[1][2] In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities." -Wikipedia You might be right though  . At least I can see your point Rather than using a wiki, it's best to ask atheists what they believe: https://atheists.org/activism/resources/what-is-atheismWHAT IS ATHEISM?
No one asks this question enough.
The reason no one asks this question a lot is because most people have preconceived ideas and notions about what an Atheist is and is not. Where these preconceived ideas come from varies, but they tend to evolve from theistic influences or other sources.
Atheism is usually defined incorrectly as a belief system. Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods. Older dictionaries define atheism as "a belief that there is no God." Some dictionaries even go so far as to define Atheism as "wickedness," "sinfulness," and other derogatory adjectives. Clearly, theistic influence taints dictionaries. People cannot trust these dictionaries to define atheism. The fact that dictionaries define Atheism as "there is no God" betrays the (mono)theistic influence. Without the (mono)theistic influence, the definition would at least read "there are no gods."
Why should atheists allow theists to define who atheists are? Do other minorities allow the majority to define their character, views, and opinions? No, they do not. So why does everyone expect atheists to lie down and accept the definition placed upon them by the world’s theists? Atheists will define themselves.
Atheism is not a belief system nor is it a religion. While there are some religions that are atheistic (certain sects of Buddhism, for example), that does not mean that atheism is a religion. Two commonly used retorts to the nonsense that atheism is a religion are: 1) If atheism is a religion then bald is a hair color, and 2) If atheism is a religion then health is a disease. A new one introduced in 2012 by Bill Maher is, "If atheism is a religion, then abstinence is a sexual position."
The only common thread that ties all atheists together is a lack of belief in gods and supernatural beings. Some of the best debates we have ever had have been with fellow atheists. This is because atheists do not have a common belief system, sacred scripture or atheist Pope. This means atheists often disagree on many issues and ideas. Atheists come in a variety of shapes, colors, beliefs, convictions, and backgrounds. We are as unique as our fingerprints. Then ask those same atheists if they are telling the truth or only dreaming. Why? How does dreaming come in to the question of what someone thinks? I know religious prophets have dreams of gods, do you mean the same thing happens here? The idea isn't literal dreaming. The idea is a forced day dreaming, to make it seem reality. Science talks about cause and effect as though it is the basis for everything. A scientist is great only after he has mastered seeking the causes for any effects. Entropy suggests that complexity is waning. And, entropy seems to be universal as far as we can tell, even though there are flares of complexity now and again... flares which are culminations of combining of that which is even more complex. If God happens to NOT be proven by this, God is highly suggested. So, what kind of day dreaming is it that atheists use to get them selves to so adamantly resist any idea that God exists, while at the same time so emphatically accept the sciences of cause and effect, complex universe, and universal complexity. Everyone lies to himself one way or another. What strength of mind these atheists must have to lie to themselves in such a great way as to accept science, but resist the greatest thing science is showing them! |
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Yes, but it is only the pattern that is in us. We have no strength to exercise that which is within us. Rather, we travel a path that is laid out for us, even though much of the time we feel that we are the one laying out our own path for ourselves. |
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Religion is meant for the 'weak', and yet, atheist are equally as close-minded as religious people. Saying something unknown doesn't exist for sure is just as dumb as saying it does without any foundation. People who denied the existence of an american continent were equally as close-minded as those who believed the other extreme. Agnosticism allows to say 'I don't know' in order to build a bi-optional foundation. Let's find out without any bias, and let faith help those who need it. Reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mAtjs-JAtEAtheism does not mean a person knows for certain there is no God Atheism is simply a rejection of any (or all) specific Gods... Christians say their God exists... I don't believe them... I'm an Atheist... same goes for Hindu, Muslim, etc... I don't believe any of them To compare it to a courtroom... Atheism would be finding the defense, "not guilty beyond a reasonable doubt" (you have not proven God exists)... which is different from "innocent" (God does not exist) Atheism is a statement about belief, and Agnostic is a statement about knowledge... the two are not mutually exclusive... (you can be an Agnostic Atheist, or a Gnostic Atheist... just like you can be a Gnostic or Agnostic Christian) Also, nobody knows for certain (everyone is an agnostic)... anyone who claims to know for certain is a liar or a fool "Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities.[1][2] In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities." -Wikipedia You might be right though . At least I can see your point Rather than using a wiki, it's best to ask atheists what they believe: https://atheists.org/activism/resources/what-is-atheismWHAT IS ATHEISM?
No one asks this question enough.
The reason no one asks this question a lot is because most people have preconceived ideas and notions about what an Atheist is and is not. Where these preconceived ideas come from varies, but they tend to evolve from theistic influences or other sources.
Atheism is usually defined incorrectly as a belief system. Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods. Older dictionaries define atheism as "a belief that there is no God." Some dictionaries even go so far as to define Atheism as "wickedness," "sinfulness," and other derogatory adjectives. Clearly, theistic influence taints dictionaries. People cannot trust these dictionaries to define atheism. The fact that dictionaries define Atheism as "there is no God" betrays the (mono)theistic influence. Without the (mono)theistic influence, the definition would at least read "there are no gods."
Why should atheists allow theists to define who atheists are? Do other minorities allow the majority to define their character, views, and opinions? No, they do not. So why does everyone expect atheists to lie down and accept the definition placed upon them by the world’s theists? Atheists will define themselves.
Atheism is not a belief system nor is it a religion. While there are some religions that are atheistic (certain sects of Buddhism, for example), that does not mean that atheism is a religion. Two commonly used retorts to the nonsense that atheism is a religion are: 1) If atheism is a religion then bald is a hair color, and 2) If atheism is a religion then health is a disease. A new one introduced in 2012 by Bill Maher is, "If atheism is a religion, then abstinence is a sexual position."
The only common thread that ties all atheists together is a lack of belief in gods and supernatural beings. Some of the best debates we have ever had have been with fellow atheists. This is because atheists do not have a common belief system, sacred scripture or atheist Pope. This means atheists often disagree on many issues and ideas. Atheists come in a variety of shapes, colors, beliefs, convictions, and backgrounds. We are as unique as our fingerprints. Then ask those same atheists if they are telling the truth or only dreaming. |
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Forget modern medicine. Modern medicine is turning out to be the scourge of the planet - http://naturalnews.com/. Christianity and most other religions are helpful of people in need, just like doctors and nurses. Christianity does it better by invoking the help of God, and when they attempt to get rid of the medical scourge. If your child ever gets sick... please pray for it instead of taking it to get evil medicine I pray for them all the time. They essentially don't get sick. |
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Forget modern medicine. Modern medicine is turning out to be the scourge of the planet - http://naturalnews.com/. Christianity and most other religions are helpful of people in need, just like doctors and nurses. Christianity does it better by invoking the help of God, and when they attempt to get rid of the medical scourge. |
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Cause and effect show that God exists. Example? I provided an example; check it out: everything seems to force to conclude that you were nothing for an eternity and are going to be nothing again for another eternity.
Incorrect. The world and everything in it has meaning and reason, and in particular a good and indubitable meaning. It follows immediately that our worldly existence, since it has in itself at most a very dubious meaning, can only be means to the end of another existence. The idea that everything in the world has a meaning [reason] is an exact analogue of the principle that everything has a cause, on which rests all of science. The core pattern of mankind being similar to the pattern of God, will recognize the new eternity as though it had been the same as the old eternity. |
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Orwell, and many others, free - http://www.luminist.org/archives/. EDIT: Sorry, either they took Orwell's books out for some reason, or else I was thinking of H.G. Wells. Either way thank you for this link,a interesting collection and I have not read many of them. Looks like some of this will be over my head but if you do not swing for the fences you never get there right? The list is slowly growing.  |
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Religion is meant for the 'weak', and yet, atheist are equally as close-minded as religious people. Saying something unknown doesn't exist for sure is just as dumb as saying it does without any foundation. People who denied the existence of an american continent were equally as close-minded as those who believed the other extreme. Agnosticism allows to say 'I don't know' in order to build a bi-optional foundation. Let's find out without any bias, and let faith help those who need it. Reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mAtjs-JAtEWe would love to find out. But we are so weak that we can barely search. It will take us forever through searching. Rather, lets do the religion thing. What is the religion thing? Look at the facts. Then base the our religion on the things that the facts tell us. |
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Orwell, and many others, free - http://www.luminist.org/archives/. EDIT: Sorry, either they took Orwell's books out for some reason, or else I was thinking of H.G. Wells. |
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I think it is amazing how he predicted electronic spying in an age when television was a relatively new invention. He was definitely a visionary.
The difference is, in the book, government did it to the people. In reality, the people are doing it to themselves with their cellphone cameras.  |
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So now we not only have to encrypt everything, but we have to make it look like it is not encrypted, as well. "I tried and tried to decrypt your message. But it just wouldn't take." "I didn't encrypt that message."  |
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Not only whack your kids every day, but tackle them too. Then they will go off to college, already used to the idea of becoming great football stars. And of course, if you whacked and tackled them out of love, they will share their football millions with you. |
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