Autant on est d'accord, il est pourri jusqu'à l'os, mais entre le bitcoin à 1 million de dollar, ou le voir s'auto-manger, j'aimerai autant qu'il est raison !

Haha, there isn't much more to say. You can every updates on their blog: https://blog.kyber.network/

Kyber is growing good and they are delivering on their product. Price should follow. If you really don't want to make money, I strongly advice you to sell right now before the price goes up. The risk is real.

Guys, please keep your shitposts outside this discussion. Plus, at this point, it doesn't even matter where the money is spent (nasa, military, education, health, or body painting), because no matter what you try you will never be able to pay so much back. Specially with more and more countries escaping from the petro-dollars.


Not if, but when. In fact, the 2008 crisis was the way out of it. Banks fucked up, they go bankrupt and we put the banksters in jail. A couple of years would have been lost to get back on track. There is the case of Iceland, which did exactly that, and it worked perfectly. Many will say that it was much easier because the scale was much smaller, but it couldn't be more wrong, the scale doesn't matter a bit (except maybe prison size if you've got more banksters). A healthy system will work good for 300,000 peoples, or for 300,000,000.

Instead we chose printing money. Seems so simple, why not ? Now, not only banks are still fucked, but also every governments and central banks that printed money. Quantitative easing, or money printing is nothing else than creating debt on the back of future generations. Like a loan, first you enjoy free money, and then you quickly realize that you must pay every cents back, plus lot's of extra interest. So it is far from free. And the more debt, the more interest you have to pay.
Greece for example, has become enslaved to the ECB this way:  If Greece say fuck to the ECB, they go bankrupt, if not, they have to follow ECB conditions which make it even worse. In the end, they will go bankrupt no matter what, but they will now bring every European countries with them (note that they were mostly already fucked anyway, it wouldn't be fair to blame only Greek people for every problems in Europe).

I guess by now people have noticed every new taxes which keep appearing continuously. It is not to pay your retirement pension (don't be silly), but to pay what we printed 10 years ago. And it is just the beginning.

In the end, we will have to pay for for every dollar, yen, euro, GBP, plus interest... that was created out of thin air. And our children. And their children too.

That is a very interesting subject. And it is also pretty simple if you focus on the big picture.

There is (everywhere in the so called developed countries) a shit lot's of debt. You can pay back, or you can't. And once the debt become too big, no matter what: you can't. From there, there is only two solutions:
1/Bankrupt: you have to face the consequences, and the more debt, the worth it is. I entirely agree with you, it will be Armageddon. But, you can control the fall because you choose the timing. And then, you set everything back to zero, and start building something better with solid foundation, giving some hope back to the next generation.
2/You can try to cheat your way out using stupid tools like QE or very low interest rate. It has NEVER been working in human history. NEVER. So of course, you may win some time, but sooner or later you will get back to option 1 bankrupt, with consequences much bigger than it could have been.

If you want to know what will happen from now on, you can check about 100 years ago back in 1929. Financial world was disconnected from reality, alimented by a flow of money freshly created. The growth of financial markets was hiding what should have been the real inflation rate (Seems familiar, doesn't it ?). Then, the flow stopped. Bankrupt and austerity destroyed lot's of money (deflation), and you know the rest. 

Look at the FED recently. Interest rate start increasing, and QE are progressively reduced. It is getting closer.

Of course we can use satoshis as a smaller currency, but let's try to be objective: bitcoin isn't easy / safe / stable enough for mass adoption yet.
Choosing a wallet, hot wallet, hard wallet, paper  wallet, as safe as possible, create an address that you can't remember, a private key that you can't remember, wait for the sync every time you use it, or connect your nano, etc... Once you know, it isn't that hard, but still not easy enough (for now).
So using satoshi would be to add a second measurement unit within the first. Again nothing impossible, for those who have been in crypto for a while, but I don't think bitcoin needs anymore difficulties right now. Bitcoin needs to solve his problems (scalability), and focus on what he does best.

I do not try to convince anyone, and certainly not to criticize bitcoin which I really like. It just seems unrealistic to consider using bitcoin in his actual form as a mass currency for everyday use in the future.

Vous avez jusqu'au 22 février pour vous inscrire sur la liste blanche. Les fonds seront collectés du 22 au 24 février, et les tokens seront distribués entre le 25 et le 27 février.

Et n'oubliez pas la loterie qui se tiendra le 24 février: 3x 2000euros à gagner !

Please quote and verify:

-----BEGIN BITCOIN SIGNED MESSAGE-----
This is Shitcointalk from bitcointalk forum. Today is 2/19/2018.
-----BEGIN SIGNATURE-----
1415W1ZdsnuYkfDXtksy1VSJzYDQp6etAq
H5I47/BRJ4Vp+H9DA4Jd4Ny1O5YBEpygVRHwA4LvVAdTChZ3AKg9JdxRUCn9NJD3b1F/BAPH8uA9NI0Y26Eres8=
-----END BITCOIN SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Money, always at the center of every fucking problems on earth.

If it wasn't for bounty, every single user would be happy with this system, which might help this forum getting cleaner. And of course, if this wasn't about greed, this system wouldn't be needed in the first place.

Imo, I would even go farther, and distribute signature bounty according to merit instead of quantity. Let's say that instead of 15 posts a week, you must now get 4 merits per week to get your reward:
- You would divide by 2 instantly the number of (shit)posts on the whole forum. Cleaner, but also easier to moderate as well.
- Signatures, paradoxically, would be much more visible. Let me explain: When you have a topic with 100 pages of shitposts, you don't read it, so you don't see any signature ! So 15 or 30 posts doesn't really matter, it is just pointless if no one reads it. Now if you only have 2 pages of quality posts, you would read them before writing your reply, so you would see everyone signature. Plus, you could see if what you're about to say have been said already, which would reduce even more the number of post.

Cleaner forum, with ONLY quality, and signature more visible. Win-win (lose for spammers).

Interest has fallen ? They just launch their Mainnet pilot a few days ago, before the main launch in April. Plus a big partnership with Wanchain. So yeah, the price didn't go parabolic yet, meaning it's still a good time to invest. It won't last long.

Be careful guys, do not invest in Kyber Network, you could end up rich ! 

Tu as entièrement raison, les systèmes déflationnistes incitent les gens à épargner. C'est d'ailleurs pour cette raison que l'un des piliers des politiques monétaires actuelles est le maintien d'un faible taux d'inflation.
Maintenant, puisque le système économique est complètement foutu (planche à billet, explosion des dettes, chômage de masse, bulles financières diverses, la liste est longue... ), tout ça n'a plus beaucoup d'importance. D'une manière ou d'une autre, pour repartir sur des bases solides et renouer avec la croissance (une véritable croissance hein, pas des chiffres bidonnés où sont inclus drogue et prostitution), il faudra purger les dettes, et ça ne sera pas sans douleur. Alors si le système déflationniste du bitcoin devient un moyen d'épargner, et de se protéger des conséquences économiques qui arriveront tôt ou tard, autant en profiter. 

Une citation de l'article Wikipédia sur la déflation: la grande déflation de 1929 
La déflation qui suit la crise de 1929 a de profondes causes monétaires. Avant la crise, la création monétaire trop importante alimente un mouvement de spéculation généralisée et une euphorie aveuglante. Cette création ne se traduit pas en inflation réelle, car les sphères réelles et financières sont déconnectées. Après la crise, les défauts sur les crédits, les faillites bancaires et les politiques monétaires restrictives et procycliques entraînent une destruction importante de monnaie, source de la déflation. La contraction du crédit entraîne celle de l'économie réelle, ce qui provoque la chute des prix

C'est important car c'est exactement ce qu'il se passe aujourd'hui. Après des années de planches à billets et de dettes (forte inflation masquée par les bulles financières), on commence à augmenter les taux à nouveau, et l'on risque de rentrer dans une phase de destruction monétaire (déflation).

En fin de compte, l'économie c'est beaucoup de mots compliqués pour embrouiller le monde, mais il n'y a rien de plus simple: c'est juste un livre comptable avec des + et des -. Quand il y a trop de -, c'est la merde.

Oui, bien trop faible. 21 millions de bitcoins (en l'an 2150 !), moins tous les btc perdus en cours de route (plusieurs millions ?), et 1 btc valant 10,000$, ça n'a aucun sens pour acheter des choses de la vie courante. C'est vrai, on peut aussi utiliser les satochis comme unité de compte, mais selon moi ce n'est pas suffisamment simple pour une adoption générale. Il y a encore bien des problèmes à résoudre avant que les cryptos ne puissent être adoptées massivement, alors pas besoin de rajouter une double unité de compte. J'espère que l'avenir me contredira, mais objectivement cela me semble compliqué.



C'est bien pour ça que j'ai employé le mot: "malheureusement". Et le rôle originel du bitcoin, avec la centralisation des mining pools et les mineurs qui utilisent des multipools pour gagner en rentabilité (donc passant la moitié de leur temps à soutenir bitcoin cash au lieu de bitcoin), s'effrite peu à peu. 

Bitcoin en théorie c'est bien beau, mais en pratique, c'est une autre histoire.

C'est impressionnant (j'ai juste survolé hein !), je te tire mon chapeau. La traduction est de très bonne qualité, et la mise en page aussi. Je n'ai pas de liste, mais Ludbega peut te rajouter 1 vote de ma part. 312pages, ça me fatigue rien que d'y penser.
Je te souhaite que le projet réussisse.

Of course ripple will be a leader this year. Ripple is scalable, fast and cheap. Without those quality, a coin can't be used as a currency. Bitcoin isn't fast, cheap, or scalable anymore, neither is ethereum.

If a coin isn't almost free and instant, it loses his edge over traditional fiat system. Sure bitcoin will stick as a "bitcoin standard" for crypto market (like gold used to be for the fiat system), but in the gold-standard, people were using fiat to transact, not gold. In the crypto world, people will stop using bitcoin for everyday use and replace it with something more convenient. 

So ripple isn't what we dreamed about, but it will keep growing fast in 2018, that's for sure.

I turn myself in guys !

I helped a member, who sent me merit in exchange. I didn't ask for it, in fact I even told him that it wasn't deserved. That was his way to say thanks.
Because it comes from a legendary account, it is quite a lot (25pts I believe).

I mean I could easily keep it, but there is no merit to have unmerited merit.

Ps: Maybe I can get some merit for this noble act !  

C'est vrai que c'est agréable un sujet sans des dizaines de pages de spams entre chaque post intéressant !

C'est une très bonne analyse ZenFr. Pour participer au débat, il y a deux choses que j'aimerai souligner, car elles me semblent souvent sous-estimées par la plupart des "crypto-adeptes":

- Bitcoin, aussi révolutionnaire soit-il, souffre d'un manque évident de scalabilité, et ne pourra en l'état, servir de moyen d'échange entre les individus. Il ne s'agit pas de passer de 7 à 20 transactions par secondes, mais plutôt à 5,000 ou 10,000 transactions/secondes (50,000 pour visa si je ne m'abuse). Je ne sais pas dans quelle mesure le lightning network pourra améliorer la situation, mais quand on voit la pauvre adoption de segwit, je me dis que c'est pas encore gagné.
D'autre part, même en résolvant le problème de scalabilité, il reste que la quantité totale de BTC en circulation est ridiculement faible pour être envisagé comme moyen de payement à l'échelle de la planète. Si bitcoin n'est pas fait pour acheter un café, bitcoin n'est pas fait pour être utilisé comme monnaie. Il perdurera sûrement comme réserve de valeur, et en tant "qu'étalon-bitcoin" dans le monde des cryptos, mais je pense malheureusement que ripple est beaucoup mieux placé que bitcoin pour devenir un moyen de payement mondial.

- La plupart des gens ont l'air de considérer comme un fait acquis que les états et les banques se battent contre les cryto-monnaies. Aussi plausible que ce soit, je n'en suis pas convaincu pour autant. Si le risque était si grand, les banques n'auraient jamais laisser les populations investir autant dans les cryptos. Ce que les banques craignent le plus, c'est l'argent liquide contre lequel rien n'est possible: le cash ne laisse absolument aucune trace. De plus en plus de pays commencent à bannir l'argent liquide de leur société (les pays scandinaves sont des bons exemples). Les crypto-monnaies semblent être le moyen parfait pour aider à la suppression du cash, et passer au tout électronique. En somme, je pense que les banques et les états ont laissés faire car c'est directement dans leurs intérêts.

Galaxy eSolutions accueille 2 nouveaux conseillers marketing de chez Google: https://medium.com/@GalaxyeSolution/galaxy-esolutions-welcomes-two-new-advisors-from-google-8bb3fd70aeb0

La liste blanche est ouverte jusqu'au 22 février, avec jusqu'à 50% de bonus pour les plus gros investisseurs: https://galaxy-esolutions.com/pages/whitelist

Thanks for your contributions .

I agree that bitcoin isn't supposed to be used for small transactions. That why I said that a new "everyday use" currency will take over. As a store of value, something you use for big transactions, bitcoin it great, but you don't transfer big amount every day. We do buy coffee every day, so we need another crypto to take that place. I really like LTC, but i also believe the supply is too small to be a mass currency. If we think about a world wild currency being used by millions of people all the time, a coin worth more than 10-20$ isn't appropriate. That's why I am afraid of ripple: it is scalable, fast, and the price is good to be used as an every day currency.

I don't think governments / banks are fighting crypto, I am pretty sure they enjoy it as it will help suppress cash. Cash is what they don't like, and have no control over (and what is really used for illegal stuff by the way). But crypto, as long as they control centralized exchanges, and know who's buying what, it isn't a big threat to them. At least no as big as they would like us to believe.

Here are some thoughts about crypto and their future. 

We are now entering a second phase of crypto era: The In-Between. The wild west is slowly coming to an end on one side, and on the other side KYC and countries / governments talking about regulations and even global cooperation to do what they do best tax and track properly. There are still lot's of great opportunities to be made, but also a lot of greed, scams, thieves.

Phase 2 is also the bubble phase, when everything gets out of control: too many coins, too many scams, and too much profit for too many people. That would be awesome, but unfortunately, it doesn't work this way. So one way or another, we will get a "crash" that will select the real / good / useful projects over the rest. When the bubble burst, money will reallocate in the strongest coins/tokens. A few giant will emerge, as well as maybe 50 to 100 other interesting projects, and as the time goes, the smaller projects will bet eaten by the giant.

The bubble crash will more or less mark the beginning of phase 3 with regulation in place (which will also be made much easier with less coins), and mass adoption. Scams as well as huge return for average Joe will be long gone. Crypto will be legit.

Now, blockchain is here to stay. But which coins / tokens will stick around for regulation and main street adoption ? That's the real question. Most of those thousand coins in CMC won't make it.
Unfortunately, the way it is going isn't the way most idealist hoped it could be. Bitcoin is great, but it can't be the main currency because of a supply too little and scalability problem (you can't realistically buy a coffee 0,00000015BTC with $10 fees and 15mn transaction time!). However it will most likely stick as a store of value, and maybe as a "bitcoin standard" on exchange (think gold standard but for crypto). Ethereum has the same scalability issue, and it is a DAPP platform, not a currency in the first place so it doesn't seem well adapted, and the supply isn't high enough in my opinion. It's sad to say, but ripple is very well placed to take the lead as the main currency in crypto world (maybe lightning network can prove me wrong).

So, the way I see it, we have 4 mains issues to solve if we want to keep the spirit of crypto:
1/ A credible alternate decentralized currency instead of ripple.
2/ Adoption of decentralized exchanges.
3/ Security, with safe wallet, safe network decentralization, and safe encryption with the rise of quantum computer coming.
4/ A way to make POW more environmentally friendly, or to find an alternative as good as POW.

What do you think guys ?

La version bêta sera disponible fin avril. Rejoignez leur groupe Telegram pour y participer:
https://t.me/world_wifi_manager


Ils ont aussi fait une bonne vidéo explicative. Je n'ai pas fait les sous-titres par contre, mais les illustrations sont assez claires:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OA2-ma32sfg


Pour rappel: Plus que 28 jours pour la pré-vente.

HAHAHA, ya pas de mal ! Pour le coup, au contraire ils se démarquent avec une idée intéressante et novatrice. D'ailleurs, leur business fonctionne déjà bien (à leur dire en tout cas). Après, est-ce qu'ils ont vraiment besoin des smart contracts, ou est-ce qu'ils veulent juste du pognon facile, c'est une autre histoire. Bref, c'est pas du tout le sujet.


Merci pour le retour.

Edit: @HuckelFinn - Corrigé.